On Tue, 8/15/17, 'Norman Verona'
norman@frenchblat.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Drop arms
To: "'Stephen D Stierman'" morgan7709@sbcglobal.net>, "'Clive P Sherriff'" csherriff99@gmail.com>,
usaj24@earthlink.net, "'TABC-Group'" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, August 15, 2017, 4:49 AM
All the current car makers and all
aerospace components will be made under ISO 9000 standards.
This means that all components are traceable to the original
manufacturer and their batch numbers. If these items are made in the EU
or USA they will be fully traceable and made to exacting
standards. Most Chinese manufacturers can make goods to
these standards but are often, in effect, asked not to so to
keep the price low. India is the unknown, I m sure they
will comply and some probably do. I have bought some excellent
product from China, and I ve seen some real rubbish, it
depends on what you re prepared to pay. Norman
Verona11
Cherry Close, Royston, South Yorkshire S71 4LZPhone: 0044 (0)1226
728811Mob: 0044 (0)741
9905 741Web:
www.frenchblat.com From:
mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Stephen D Stierman
morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc]
Sent: 15 August 2017 11:15
To: Clive P Sherriff
csherriff99@gmail.com>;
usaj24@earthlink.net;
'TABC-Group' mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Drop
arms Clive, I am not a lawyer, I spent
over thirty years in procurement and I am not talking about
items being out of spec and unusable, nor do I espouse VW
steering conversions. What concerns me is the statement
that the end user should be able to trace the mfg. process
of an item from raw material to end product. While this a
noble idea that I respect, it is just not realistic as I
see it.
Those touting VALUE of items like
OEM VW steering components should be be promoting
advantages they offer in the way of safety in the way of
high levels of OEM QC (Quality Control) and traceability
in mfg. process from raw material to end
product.
Steve
TC2911 From: Clive P Sherriff csherriff99@gmail.com>
To: Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net>;
usaj24@earthlink.net;
'TABC-Group' mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent:
Tuesday, August 15, 2017 4:08 AM
Subject:
Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms
Steve, You are sounding like the lawyer
for the suppliers defence ! We
are not talking about every screw and bolt, though I doubt
even you would be happy with a big end bolt supplied in
plain mild steel, and your engine certainly would not
be ! It's when main components are
so far out of spec that they are unusable. I've had
countless experiences, new cam bearings that were
unfittable, exhaust systems that would never fit the chassis
mountings, new timing tensioners that were so far out that
they were unusable, etc. etc. though if you did not know
what they should be, many would just fit and forget a
component that was worse than that they were replacing.
This supplier complacency of
letting the buyer find the faults, giving a refund, and then
carrying on selling the same faulty items to the punters
who don't complain through timidity or lack of
knowledge is unacceptable. Clivem
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen D Stierman
morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] To:
usaj24@earthlink.net ; 'TABC-Group'
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 10:35
PMSubject: Re: [mg-tabc] Drop
arms
I
do know my suppliers; Moss, FTFU, Coker, etc. etc. , folks
most of us use.
I
do not know their suppliers nor do I have the ability
as I think you advocate to know "OEM QC (Quality
Control) and traceability in mfg. process from raw
material to end product".
Not picking nits here, but it is
doubtful our suppliers know this about every screw, nut,
bolt, spring washer in their catalogs. Sometimes sh!t
happens and we all do the best we can to prevent it
including the suppliers but lets get real, nobody is going
to guarantee perfection on any of this stuff. Why would a
supplier guarantee the use and installation of a VW
steering box modified by an individual that is to be
installed in a vehicle that it was not meant to be installed
in.
Steve TC2911 From: Bill Hyatt usaj24@earthlink.net>
To:
'Stephen D Stierman' morgan7709@sbcglobal.net>;
'TABC-Group' mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 4:16
PM
Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Drop
arms
Steve,Using aftermarket
replacement critical parts not equal or exceeding OEM design
specs can lead to doom & destruction.On the MG- TABC
site, a case was recounted where aftermarket main bearing
cap studs were obtained from a well known UK MG XPAG
supplier & on start up a cap stud fractured & the
broken stud and nut bolt ricocheted around sump after being
hit by crankshaft destroying inside of engine. An analysis
of stud determined they were hardened to V grade, made
from inferior bar stock with low levels of nickel &
chrome needed to reduce brittlenessIn high carbon
alloys. It also had high levels of sulpher & obvious
inclusions suggesting impure stock. Obviously there was no
quality control inspection on part of mfgr. or reseller of
end product. . I would postulate that relying on feedback
from end user for QC is bad practice with no assurance as to
what materials mfgr uses, or how he makes the product.
Undoubtedly from a third world country where low cost trumps
QC. Quality does have a cost. Know your
suppliers! -Bill From:
mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:
mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Stephen D Stierman
morgan7709@sbcglobal.net
[mg-tabc]
Sent: Monday, August 14,
2017 3:43 PM
To: Steve S;
mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Drop
arms I think my point is that I would
really feel more comfortable with aftermarket critical parts
made today given current production techniques even if I
don't know where they are made, than I do with the
original stuff, given the technology.
Steve TC2911 From: "Steve S
mail@mgnuts.com
[mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com>
To: "
mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com"
mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 2:17
PM
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Drop
arms
I
don't have the original spindles, nor the original drop
arm. But to answer your question, no I wouldn't trust
70 year old parts with an unknown history, that are known to
break. Not sure how my feelings are relevant to the topic
but there it is.It
was Bill's comment about "aftermarket critical
parts with unknown QC issues" that you responded to
originally.-
Steve Simmons, TC8975 On
8/14/2017 10:36 AM, Stephen D Stierman
morgan7709@sbcglobal.net
[mg-tabc] wrote:
So
you feel confident in those original drop arms and front
spindles?You
do remember a previous member selling VW steering
conversions advising us how much better the VDub drop arms
were than the OEM item on a regular basis? I still have
all that original stuff on my car out of choice, but I have
to say I really would feel safer using current VW items
given the current manufacturing technology no matter where
they were made if I decided to go in that
direction.Steve TC2911From: "Steve S
mail@mgnuts.com
[mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com>
To: "
mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com"
mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 1:15
PM
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms.
( Sorry if this appears more than once)
All
fair points, but I think the issue is with parts that could
kill you if they failed. A broken axle is a minor
inconvenience, but a broken steering component can kill you
and whoever you consequently run into. I don't think
anyone is in this hobby thinking that it's ok if it
kills them! We take a risk by driving a car with no modern
safety equipment in place, but I think it's reasonable
to expect that the steering system will remain in one
piece. If I drive myself off a cliff then ok, but I'd
rather it be my mistake than a failed steering
arm!-
Steve Simmons, TC8975 On
8/14/2017 9:57 AM, Stephen D Stierman
morgan7709@sbcglobal.net
[mg-tabc] wrote:
Safety?! Give me a break here. It
is a 70 year old car made of wood with a steel tube pointed
at the drivers chest and a fuel tank as a rear bumper.
Lighting barely visible after dark, a chassis known to
develop stress cracks, rear axles known to break, front
spindles that crack and a crank shaft that sometimes breaks
across a counter weight. Made of materials scrounged after
a war built with technology from well before.I
am sorry I just cannot worry too much about the quality and
traceability in manufacturing from raw material to end
product. We are lucky we can still get parts and keep
these old crocks on the road for awhile longer. By simply
driving these vehicles you are assuming a great deal of
risk and if this is a big problem, maybe time to choose a
different hobby. Steve TC2911, driving a car as old
as I am.From: "'
Usaj24@earthlink.net'
usaj24@earthlink.net [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com>
To: Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc:
mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. (
Sorry if this appears more than once)
Tweed,No
worries, there can never be enough discussion about how or
why things break, and preventive measures. Personally I tend to worry more
about fitting aftermarket critical parts with unknown QC
issues. However this line of thinking should be more
relevant today when NOS OEM critical parts are becoming
unobtanium, and who knows where today's parts are
sourced and what level of QC they went through from A to
Z.Those touting VALUE of items like
OEM VW steering components should be be promoting
advantages they offer in the way of safety in the way of
high levels of OEM QC (Quality Control) and traceability
in mfg. process from raw material to end
product.Too
many vintage critical parts are sourced from suppliers in
third world countries based on cost, not degree of quality
testing provided throughout mfg. supply chain. BillTC
4926 Sent from my iPad
On Aug 13, 2017, at 9:24 PM, Tweed
lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk
[mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
I
hope this does not kick off another debate on the merits or
otherwise of the VW box over the BC, but after reading a
very interesting article by a Mike James in John James'
'Totally T type' on aftermarket drop arms , I'm
curious. I'm in the process of replacing
the busted VW steering box in 0632 and the drop or Pitman
arm supplied with the replacement is totally different to
the one on the old unit. Both units are made by TWR, but the
old drop arm is a VW original. Not
only is it shorter, but it does not have the same amount of
'offset'. Also, the tapered hole to accept the rod
end is the other way up ... on the 'old' one, the
rod end is mounted on the top and secured from
below. Pro! bably the biggest argument
against changing from a BC box is the increased number of
turns lock to lock, so having a shorter arm can only
exasperate that. While the use of a longer arm
won't reduce the number of turns, it would make for less
movement of the wheel to achieve the same amount of lock at
the hub .... so in effect, making for a slightly
'quicker' box. Or
am I talking out of the top of my head? Tweed.
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