please forgive me! oily mess -nklrish

[Mike Frey]

I think he really wants to know how to tell when a chain and sprockets are worn to the point that they need to be replaced. I started to write something but it was turning into more of a novel. I even tried to find pictures of a worn sprocket, but struck out (and I consider myself pretty good at finding stuff online). The best way is to have someone in the know show you - it is easy to see when you know what you are looking for. A picture is worth 1000 words. A real life view is worth more. Jud Jones wrote:

> > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > , trailsunltd@... wrote: > > > > again, how do YOU determine when a chain is worn and needs > > replacing,wait till it breaks?,get stranded? i don't know ,is this some > > kind of chain mileage contest?,i stated how i determine when to replace > > a chain,then i replace it,i don't shoot for a certain mileage,when it's > > worn out,that's it,i hit some remote places and i'm not guessing on the > > chains cond. > > > > > > Is this a troll? > > Without something to suggest that your snake oil might make my chain > last longer than the > snake oil I use, I have no reason to use anything else. If you want to > persist with a regimen > that wears your chains out sooner, please feel free. > >

[trailsunltd@aol.com]

ok jud, you win,you been smoking that WD? i'll get some and try it in my pipe,seems to work for you ok -----Original Message----- From: Jud Jones To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 6:40 pm Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Chain Lube - Squeak Question

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, trailsunltd@... wrote: > > again, how do YOU determine when a chain is worn and needs > replacing,wait till it breaks?,get stranded? i don't know ,is this some > kind of chain mileage contest?,i stated how i determine when to replace > a chain,then i replace it,i don't shoot for a certain mileage,when it's > worn out,that's it,i hit some remote places and i'm not guessing on the > chains cond. > > Is this a troll? Without something to suggest that your snake oil might make my chain last longer than the snake oil I use, I have no reason to use anything else. If you want to persist with a regimen that wears your chains out sooner, please feel free.

[E.L. Green]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "aphampton628" wrote:

> --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "E.L. Green" wrote: > > WD-40 is Stoddard solvent and light machine oil with a bit of perfume > > added to make it smell like, well, WD-40. Nothing particularly > > special, magic, or snake-oilish about it. > > WD-40 Aerosol > > http://www.wd40company.com/files/pdf/msds-wd494716385.pdf > > > WD-40 Bulk Liquid > > http://www.wd40company.com/files/pdf/msds-wd482671453.pdf

Yes, the Feds now require them to break down "Stoddard solvent" into "Aliphatic" and "LVP Aliphatic" Hydrocarbon rather than saying "Stoddard solvent" as they'd been saying on their MDS until a couple of years ago. But it's still Stoddard solvent, like it's been for the last 50 years. Looks like I was off on the percentages slightly, the jugs are 65% and the cans are 75% Stoddard solvent with the rest mostly being light machine oil. Oh well. Still nothing magical about WD-40 pro or con. Since it's largely a solvent it's good for cleaning chains, while the light machine oil will keep the chain from rusting until you put something heavier on the chain. As I stated earlier my only beef with WD-40 is that it washes off too easily in the rain, resulting in a rusty chain if you ride in the rain. As far as lubrication goes, nothing you apply to the outside of a chain is worth a bucket of warm spit as a lubricant since anything you apply to the outside of the chain would just get squeezed out of the loaded surfaces (there is no -- zero -- lubricant which does *not* get squeezed out of loading surfaces, otherwise we wouldn't need an oil pumping system in our KLR's and we wouldn't need o-rings to hold the lube inside the chain, we'd just coat all the surfaces with this magic lube!), so there's no lubrication difference between WD-40 and any other "chain lube" you apply to the outside of your motorcycle's chain. Whatever you're spraying on your chain is being sprayed there for two reasons -- rust-proofing, and to keep the o-rings conditioned. That's it.

[trailsunltd@aol.com]

so sprockets need no lubrication? say an 18 wheeler tractor driver sprays? WD40 on his 5th wheel instead of his grease,there would be no difference -----Original Message----- From: E.L. Green To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 7:09 pm Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Chain Lube - Squeak Question --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "aphampton628" wrote:

> --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "E.L. Green" wrote: > > WD-40 is Stoddard solvent and light machine oil with a bit of

perfume

> > added to make it smell like, well, WD-40. Nothing particularly > > special, magic, or snake-oilish about it. > > WD-40 Aerosol > > http://www.wd40company.com/files/pdf/msds-wd494716385.pdf > > > WD-40 Bulk Liquid > > http://www.wd40company.com/files/pdf/msds-wd482671453.pdf

Yes, the Feds now require them to break down "Stoddard solvent" into "Aliphatic" and "LVP Aliphatic" Hydrocarbon rather than saying "Stoddard solvent" as they'd been saying on their MDS until a couple of years ago. But it's still Stoddard solvent, like it's been for the last 50 years. Looks like I was off on the percentages slightly, the jugs are 65% and the cans are 75% Stoddard solvent with the rest mostly being light machine oil. Oh well. Still nothing magical about WD-40 pro or con. Since it's largely a solvent it's good for cleaning chains, while the light machine oil will keep the chain from rusting until you put something heavier on the chain. As I stated earlier my only beef with WD-40 is that it washes off too easily in the rain, resulting in a rusty chain if you ride in the rain. As far as lubrication goes, nothing you apply to the outside of a chain is worth a bucket of warm spit as a lubricant since anything you apply to the outside of the chain would just get squeezed out of the loaded surfaces (there is no -- zero -- lubricant which does *not* get squeezed out of loading surfaces, otherwise we wouldn't need an oil pumping system in our KLR's and we wouldn't need o-rings to hold the lube inside the chain, we'd just coat all the surfaces with this magic lube!), so there's no lubrication difference between WD-40 and any other "chain lube" you apply to the outside of your motorcycle's chain. Whatever you're spraying on your chain is being sprayed there for two reasons -- rust-proofing, and to keep the o-rings conditioned. That's it.

[Jud Jones]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, trailsunltd@... wrote:

> > so sprockets need no lubrication? say an 18 wheeler tractor driver > sprays? WD40 on his 5th wheel instead of his grease,there would be no > difference > >

So in addition to dodging the issue, you give us a faulty analogy? How many miles do you get out of your chains?

[Mike Frey]

Ohh, that one is arguable, but I ran out of time....... E.L. Green wrote:

> > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > , "aphampton628" > > As far as lubrication goes, nothing you apply to the outside of a > chain is worth a bucket of warm spit as a lubricant since anything you > apply to the outside of the chain would just get squeezed out of the > loaded surfaces > >

[Greg May]

After wading through all threads I was feeling left out so why not add my own "facts" --- On Tue, 1/20/09, Jud Jones wrote: From: Jud Jones Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Chain Lube - Squeak Question To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Received: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 8:41 PM --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com, trailsunltd@ ... wrote: > > so sprockets need no lubrication? say an 18 wheeler tractor driver > sprays? WD40 on his 5th wheel instead of his grease,there would be no > difference > > So in addition to dodging the issue, you give us a faulty analogy? How many miles do you get out of your chains? __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Lee Dodge]

Bad analogy. The 5th wheel is stationary and the trailer rotates on it. It's exposed to the atmosphere and the grease does pickup abrasives. Try the following arguments on for size. Maybe it will offer answers to this thread. This is how I see it. With the roller chain each of the chain's rollers doesn't move with respect to the sprocket once it 'nestles' into the bottom between the adjoining teeth. There is no relative movement between the chain's rollers and the sprocket so in actuality no 'lubrication' is needed. What is needed is for there to be no (or as little as possible) 'dirt' to mess up the contact surfaces and maybe change the pitch diameter of the sprocket slightly. So the non-sticky residue from the WD may just operate as; a 'cleaner' (blowing off the dirt), a corrosion protectent, and, possibly, if the chain has them, it keeps the sealing rings - be they O or X - soft and operative. Very important as they keep the real wearing surfaces, the inside of the roller and the moving chain pin, where there is serious clean lubrication, from being contaminated. Chains without sealed roller lubrication do get abrasives into that critical bearing area and do wear both the inside of the roller as well as the link pins. Try multiplying .003 wear per pin by 100+ links and you can 'see' the wear by being able to lift the chain away from the rear sprocket. Those non-O or X ringed chains are impossible to protect, just accept the inevitable wear and think about the real economics of the expensive O or X ringed chains. Just maybe they're not so expensive after all. If you ride in the dirt the chains are exposed to to it and if it's sticky, dirt has a better chance of sticking to it (like oily foam air cleaners?) What do You think? Lee

--- On Tue, 1/20/09, Jud Jones wrote: From: Jud Jones Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Chain Lube - Squeak Question To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 4:41 PM --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com, trailsunltd@ ... wrote: > > so sprockets need no lubrication? say an 18 wheeler tractor driver > sprays? WD40 on his 5th wheel instead of his grease,there would be no > difference > > So in addition to dodging the issue, you give us a faulty analogy? How many miles do you get out of your chains? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Skypilot]

Actually they have. The best motorcycle magazine ever, Ride Magazine from Great Britain, did one of their product tests a few years back. They do incredible test and list how they test everything. They had Lubricity tests andhigh speed fly off tests and stretch tests and even did a series of cross section metallurgical tests if I recall correctly. Then the bastards at Borders stopped stocking it because THE HORNS WERE BEGINNNING TO SHOW UNDER THEIR FAKE BOOK WORM , COLLEGIC WANNABE, LONG HAIR THAT GOES WITH THEIR CRAPPY FAKE COFFEE LIKE PRODUCT DRINKS AND... Oh, Sorry, perhaps I need to talk to my therapist about that. Any ways the article listed a few clear winners, none of which I recognized from shelves in the USA. I believe the idea of thin oil, WD40 or motor oil from a Lubeman, were discussed with high regard for their results but I didn't keep the article because I went all wannabe myself and bought an R1200GS. It's ok though, I got over it and traded up to a KLR. I still have a Lubeman and have it mounted on Suzi-Q for some of the testing at getbettermpg.org. I still think old re-filtered 10w/30 is the best way to keep a chain clean and fit. I really don't like the idea of putting something on a chain that will help dirt stick to it, that doesn't sound right. Am I babbling? Dam. Ill shut up now!

> > No one has ever shown that spray-on chain "lubes" do anything to extend

chain

> life, that > they give longer chain life than WD40, or that they are anything but snake > oil.. >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Skypilot]

Oh oh oh, (hand held bouncing in the air), I remember something Ride magazine said in the chain article now. . They had a big thing about using Paraffin to clean your chain. They thought that was best. I thought they had lost it since I couldn't figure out what the hell good candle wax would do for a chain. After much discussion about what the Brits were on about, ummmmm, maybe I need to stop watching BBC since I actually just used the phrase "on about", we emailed them to ask what paraffin is in their eyes. Turns out they refer to Kerosene as Paraffin, some kind of a brand packaging thing I think. Turns out that they are pretty keen on using it on your chain frequently to keep it clean. That sorta fits with the wd40 idea I suppose. Well, I am going back to watching my recordings or Doctor Who and Top Gear now! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]