broke my choke, now what?

DSN_KLR650
Gabe
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:45 am

remove kacr? how dificult, why & why not?

Post by Gabe » Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:13 pm

OK, this one is for the seasoned KLR engine masters, or anyone else that has an informed opinion: Fisrt off: this is a 2005 KLR650, 6900 miles. All manitenance is done regularly. Runs awesome, never any problems. 'cept for things falling off, but we all know about that... :wink: So the questiuon is: what would one stand to gain/lose by removing the KACR? (Kawasaki Auto Compression Release system. If you don't know what it is, go do some research! :P ) I have heard mentioned a couple of times around here that folks have removed theirs with no ill effects. The reason I ask is I have this ticking noise that is driving me mad, and I have an idea it might be the KACR. This diagnosis is not based on any facts or direct observations of the KACR, but simply on the location and nature of the sound, the fact that others have reported the same noise and suspected the KACR, and the fact that by most accounts the KACR is not exactly the most bulletproof part of this engine. The noise comes from the upper forward area of the engine, right side (right where the KACR is), somewhat intermittent ticking sound, definitely metal-to-metal. It deosn't start ticking until the engine is warm, and it has gotten slighty more constant and a little louder over time. When I first noticed it the noise would come and go every thirty seconds or so, ticking for a few seconds and then stopping. Now it is pretty much constant; once the engine is warmed up a little bit, it's ticking away... :x Before you suggest valves, it made the same noise before and after the valve adjustment. (Valves were at lower end of spec, I adjusted to upper end) I've also taken out and inspected the cam chain tensioner just for shits and giggles, and it was fine. So after listening to this ticking noise each and every time I ride the bike for the last 4000 miles or so and thinking, "Damn, that just doesn't sound [i]healthy[/i]...", I am at the popint where I want to try something. I plan on keeping this bike for as long as it lives, and I would like that to be a long time. First move, of course, is cracking the motor open and taking a look at the KACR, valves, etc...but then I don't really know what I am looking for. I know where things are, but I'm not enough of a mechanic to spot something if it's not an obviously messed up part. So I figure while I've got it taken apart, why not just whack the damn KACR off? After all isn't it just a vestigal part, made obsolete and unnecessary by the modern wonder of electric start? The unknowns for me are: How hard is it? What tools to do I need? How precise do you have to be? What are the potential risks of doing it? (besides the obvious "yew could F yer engine up real good if'n you put it back tuhgether wrong or drop pieces of metal into yer engine" stuff) And finally, if I did successfully remove it, what are the downsides of not having one? Thanks for reading, and thanks even more for your replies... :cheers:

Al
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:23 am

remove kacr? how dificult, why & why not?

Post by Al » Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:25 pm

Gabe wrote:
>So the questiuon is: what would one stand to gain/lose by removing >the KACR? (Kawasaki Auto Compression Release system. >
I did it to my A14. Did not help anything. Did not hurt anything. At the time, the KLR had close to 80,000 miles on it. Rode it about 2,000 after removing the KACR, didn t do anything one way or the other. No difference in starting. I removed the cam and cut the KACR off with a Dremel. Two pins, if I remember correctly. Removing the cam was the easy way to keep junk out of the motor. Al

Jim
Posts: 1560
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 11:15 am

remove kacr? how dificult, why & why not?

Post by Jim » Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:31 pm

Search the internet for "diagnosing engine noises". Have you used any acoustic or electronic stethoscopes? Have you contacted the NSA? Jim A17
--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Gabe" wrote: > > OK, this one is for the seasoned KLR engine masters, or anyone else > that has an informed opinion: > > Fisrt off: this is a 2005 KLR650, 6900 miles. All manitenance is > done regularly. Runs awesome, never any problems. 'cept for things > falling off, but we all know about that... :wink: > > So the questiuon is: what would one stand to gain/lose by removing > the KACR? (Kawasaki Auto Compression Release system. If you don't > know what it is, go do some research! :P ) > > I have heard mentioned a couple of times around here that folks have > removed theirs with no ill effects. The reason I ask is I have this > ticking noise that is driving me mad, and I have an idea it might be > the KACR. > > This diagnosis is not based on any facts or direct observations of > the KACR, but simply on the location and nature of the sound, the > fact that others have reported the same noise and suspected the > KACR, and the fact that by most accounts the KACR is not exactly the > most bulletproof part of this engine. > > The noise comes from the upper forward area of the engine, right > side (right where the KACR is), somewhat intermittent ticking sound, > definitely metal-to-metal. It deosn't start ticking until the engine > is warm, and it has gotten slighty more constant and a little louder > over time. When I first noticed it the noise would come and go > every thirty seconds or so, ticking for a few seconds and then > stopping. Now it is pretty much constant; once the engine is warmed > up a little bit, it's ticking away... :x Before you suggest valves, > it made the same noise before and after the valve adjustment. > (Valves were at lower end of spec, I adjusted to upper end) I've > also taken out and inspected the cam chain tensioner just for shits > and giggles, and it was fine. > > So after listening to this ticking noise each and every time I ride > the bike for the last 4000 miles or so and thinking, "Damn, that > just doesn't sound [i]healthy[/i]...", I am at the popint where I > want to try something. I plan on keeping this bike for as long as > it lives, and I would like that to be a long time. > > First move, of course, is cracking the motor open and taking a look > at the KACR, valves, etc...but then I don't really know what I am > looking for. I know where things are, but I'm not enough of a > mechanic to spot something if it's not an obviously messed up part. > So I figure while I've got it taken apart, why not just whack the > damn KACR off? After all isn't it just a vestigal part, made > obsolete and unnecessary by the modern wonder of electric start? > > The unknowns for me are: How hard is it? What tools to do I need? > How precise do you have to be? What are the potential risks of > doing it? (besides the obvious "yew could F yer engine up real good > if'n you put it back tuhgether wrong or drop pieces of metal into > yer engine" stuff) > And finally, if I did successfully remove it, what are the downsides > of not having one? > > Thanks for reading, and thanks even more for your replies... > > :cheers: >

Sonny Bulla
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2002 11:26 am

remove kacr? how dificult, why & why not?

Post by Sonny Bulla » Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:59 pm

> Al writes: >> > I did it to my A14. Did not help anything. Did not hurt anything.
Didn't it get rid of that "sound" it made when you screw it on below 3k rpms? Sonny '02 KLR650

Gabe
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:45 am

remove kacr? how dificult, why & why not?

Post by Gabe » Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:03 pm

I have not used a stethoscope. I suppose I could spen all kinds of time and $$ trying to hunt down exactly where the noise was coming from, but to be honest, that doesn't sound very appealing to me. I figured IF the KACR is an unnecessary mechanical appendage that is easy to remove...why not remove it? Could be a quick, efficient fix...or not. But in the end if there's no harm done removing it, why not cut the bastard off? Gabe A19 ----------------------------------------------------------> Search the internet for "diagnosing engine noises". Have you used any acoustic or electronic stethoscopes? Have you contacted the NSA? Jim A17 --------------------------------------------------------->

Bogdan Swider
Posts: 2759
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 2:04 pm

remove kacr? how dificult, why & why not?

Post by Bogdan Swider » Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:30 pm

But in the end if there's no harm done removing it,
> why not cut the bastard off? >
That's what the medical establishment used to think about your/our tonsils and appendix. BTW you can get a stethoscope for a couple of $ at Harbor Freight. Wonder if those docs used Chinese stethoscopes ? Bogdan

Analog Aardvark
Posts: 280
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:54 pm

remove kacr? how dificult, why & why not?

Post by Analog Aardvark » Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:32 pm

I could be wrong, but I don't think the KACR is a known weak point on the KLR650. I believe it had a history of failing on the KLX and maybe the old 600, but I can't remember having heard of one failing on a KLR. Which isn't to say it hasn't happened, but just that I think it's almost always harmless. I don't know anything about removing it, but I can name two good reasons to leave it on: 1. I believe that the KACR is a big factor in why you can often pump the water out of a swamped KLR without pulling the plug and all that jazz. Conventional wisdom says this can't be done (hydraulic lock etc), or will lead to a bent rod or damaged crank (sounds like a hell of a lot of torque for a little starter, but who am I to argue). I and at least a small handful of other listers have seen a totally swamped KLR able to clear its own cylinder through short taps on the starter. Without the KACR yes, you could pull the plug and do it that way, but that's a PITA and gives that 650cc of nasty water a much longer chance to soak past your rings, contaminate your oil, and generally ruin your day. 2. Bump starting a KLR is a pain in the ass even with a KACR (650cc is a lot of compression to overcome, even on pavement WITH the relief). Imagine trying to bump start one on a dirt road, miles from nowhere, WITHOUT it. If you pull it keep us in the loop. I'm a curious man. -Luke
> So the questiuon is: what would one stand to > gain/lose by removing > the KACR? (Kawasaki Auto Compression Release system.
[SNIP]
> This diagnosis is not based on any facts or direct > observations of > the KACR, but simply on the location and nature of > the sound, the > fact that others have reported the same noise and > suspected the > KACR, and the fact that by most accounts the KACR is > not exactly the > most bulletproof part of this engine.
[SNIP] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Gabe
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:45 am

remove kacr? how dificult, why & why not?

Post by Gabe » Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:04 pm

Aha, just what I was looking for, the caveats... A swamped engine or a bump start would be times when I wish I had the KACR...makes sense. Hopefully won't get into either situation, but shite does occur from time to time... In any event, before I get crazy and take a grinder to my cam, I am for sure going to at least attempt to pin the noise down. A stethoscope sounds like a handy thing to have anyway, and not too much $$. Then if that abomniable ticking really does seem to be coming from that location, I will open it up and see if I can see anything unusual in there...I guess it will be then that I decide whether or not to lop off the KACR... Naturally I would rather just keep everything as is, but that noise bothers me to no end. Something is getting hammered on in there...about 10 times a second... --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Analog Aardvark wrote:
> > I could be wrong, but I don't think the KACR is a > known weak point on the KLR650. I believe it had a > history of failing on the KLX and maybe the old 600, > but I can't remember having heard of one failing on a > KLR. Which isn't to say it hasn't happened, but just > that I think it's almost always harmless. > > I don't know anything about removing it, but I can > name two good reasons to leave it on: > > 1. I believe that the KACR is a big factor in why you > can often pump the water out of a swamped KLR without > pulling the plug and all that jazz. Conventional > wisdom says this can't be done (hydraulic lock etc), > or will lead to a bent rod or damaged crank (sounds > like a hell of a lot of torque for a little starter, > but who am I to argue). I and at least a small > handful of other listers have seen a totally swamped > KLR able to clear its own cylinder through short taps > on the starter. Without the KACR yes, you could pull > the plug and do it that way, but that's a PITA and > gives that 650cc of nasty water a much longer chance > to soak past your rings, contaminate your oil, and > generally ruin your day. > > 2. Bump starting a KLR is a pain in the ass even with > a KACR (650cc is a lot of compression to overcome, > even on pavement WITH the relief). Imagine trying to > bump start one on a dirt road, miles from nowhere, > WITHOUT it. > > If you pull it keep us in the loop. I'm a curious > man. > > -Luke > > > So the questiuon is: what would one stand to > > gain/lose by removing > > the KACR? (Kawasaki Auto Compression Release system. > [SNIP] > > This diagnosis is not based on any facts or direct > > observations of > > the KACR, but simply on the location and nature of > > the sound, the > > fact that others have reported the same noise and > > suspected the > > KACR, and the fact that by most accounts the KACR is > > not exactly the > > most bulletproof part of this engine. > [SNIP] > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com >

Svantwuyver
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 3:02 pm

remove kacr? how dificult, why & why not?

Post by Svantwuyver » Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:39 pm

Running without the KACR puts a lot of extra load on the starter and battery. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Gabe
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:45 am

remove kacr? how dificult, why & why not?

Post by Gabe » Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:08 pm

> Running without the KACR puts a lot of extra load on > the starter and battery.
Really? Can you 'splain me how/why? I thought KACR only came into play at when rpms

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