Thermostats

John Seim
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2000 2:12 pm

Re: Thermostats

Post by John Seim » Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:41 am

I fought overheating problems for eight years with my TC. I did every
suggestion
imaginable. Pulled out the core plugs, and flushed the engine. This
resulted in
partially blocking the radiator. Having the radiator rodded out. Having
the
distributor checked, for operation as well as shaft end play. The
phenolic
washer can break off separating the gear from the housing. The gear
will walk
up the camshaft as you rev the engine, and retard the timing. I even
had the
radiator recored, as a shop felt that was the problem.

The real problem was, the radiator core was wrong! Back when these car
had
bottomed in value, but were still daily drivers, and you took it to a
radiator shop
for a problem is when it probably happened. You needed a new radiator
core.
They could put in a two row core, or a three row core, like what was in
there.
The price difference was maybe $30.00 at the time. (Remember, this was
a daily
driver, worth $300.00). The shop said either one would work. The two
row core
was installed, and you had overheating problems, after a period of time.

I noticed that other members of the Vintage MG Club of Southern
California
had three row radiator cores, and they had no overheating problems! I
had
a three row, maximum cooling core installed, and no more problems.
Another
club member had just completed a restoration, and started experiencing
the
same problem. I looked at the tube placement at his top header tank,
and told
him he needed a new radiator core. He said that he had it recored. I
told him
that may be, but he needed a three row core installed, to solve the
problem.

John Seim
Irvine, CA
On Mar 7, 2008, at 11:42 AM, BUD SILVERS wrote:

> Hello All;
>
>
>
> When I first got my car it overheated badly. I kept putting water in
> it. The
> first trip up Pikes Peak (slow speed/high load) I stopped and put
> water in
> ten or twelve times, maybe more. I carried 5 gallons of water with me,
> and
> used most of it going up! I wrote emails to the group concerning
> overheating. I got mostly responses back saying check the radiator. I
> did
> and guess what? It was clogged! I cleaned it with little effect, but
> things
> were a bit better. I was in a parade and had to pull out two blocks
> before
> the finish due to overheating. The car right next to me was Bob Rich
> in his
> J2. His car was hot too, but not as hot as mine. BTW the J2 has no
> water
> pump. Water is circulated by heat rising and cool falling. I cleaned
> the
> radiator some more! This time I took it to a professional, who claimed
> he
> rodded it out, but I think he just boiled it. Anyway that made it a
> little
> better, but the car still overheated and ran hot. Next I bought a 6
> vane
> water pump and installed a MGB fan blade. Now that really helped. The
> fan
> blade made the engine incredibly smoother. OK, it's not stock and it is
> noticeable, but it works and it is a bolt on change. No modification
> to the
> car is necessary. I then bought a new radiator, and that seems to have
> solved the problem completely. The last trip up Pikes Peak (last
> summer) the
> temp never got over 85 degrees Celsius. I came home without adding ANY
> water, and did not lose any on the trip. I am still running a
> completely
> stock thermostat. I should also mention that I drove my car at 55 to
> 65 MPH
> across Kansas for 75+ miles in 95 degree Fahrenheit sunshine last
> summer and
> the temp never got over 85 degrees Celsius. Two last things I did. I
> set my
> timing at 3000 RPM and adjusted my carburetors.
>
>
>
> Here is a summary:
>
>
>
> 1. Make sure your radiator is flowing as it should. (REALLY
> IMPORTANT)
>
> 2. Install a 6 vane water pump. (ALSO IMPORTANT, and cheaper than
> a
> thermostat with housing)
>
> 3. Install a MGB fan if you wish.
>
> 4. Check/set your timing.
>
> 5. Check/set your carburetor adjustment.
>
>
>
> Now go drive your car and quit trying to find a way to modify
> something that
> is not broken.
>
>
>
> I don't mean to be critical of those of you who have installed a
> removable
> thermostat. It just really complicates the cooling system as it was
> designed. You all know that I am not opposed to modifying things,
> particularly if it does no harm to the car. For me I would prefer to
> keep
> the car as original as possible. My concern over the modern thermostat
> is
> that the engine was not designed for it. My worry is that too much
> pressure
> will build up and cause the soft plugs to pop out or the head gasket to
> blow. This is supposed to be a non pressure cooling system. It works
> that
> way for me. I am sure that those of you who have changed to a modern
> thermostat will say that the pressure does not cause a problem either.
> You
> are probably right.
>
>
>
> One last thing, there may be some of you who do not know that you can
> check
> your thermostat by putting it in hot water with a candy/cooking
> thermometer
> and watch to see what temperature it is opening at. Mine starts to
> open just
> over 100 Degrees Fahrenheit and is completely open about 175 degrees
> Fahrenheit.
>
> Anyway, there is my 2 cents and then some.
>
>
>
> Have a great day.
>
>
>
> Bud Silvers
>
> TC 8192 - Low n slo in the Black Forest of Colorado......

BUD SILVERS
Posts: 0
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:51 am

Re: Thermostats

Post by BUD SILVERS » Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:53 am

Good mornin all;



I absolutely hate it when I open my mouth (keyboard in this case) and say
something wrong! But sometimes I do. It was pointed out to me from a friend
last night that the TC cooling system cannot produce pressure. I was wrong
about blocking the bypass creating pressure inside the block. It won't,
however the pump will cavitate when the thermostat is closed, unless you are
using an original type thermostat. In the original system when the
thermostat is closed the bypass is open and when the thermostat is open the
bypass is closed.



I guess the bottom line is for me that the original system works just fine
if everything else is good, so why change it? If one can buy a replacement
that works like the original then why buck the system and go to a modern
type thermostat.



Have a great day.



Bud Silvers

TC 8192 - Low n slo in the Black Forest of Colorado......



From: BUD SILVERS [mailto:49MGTC@usaviator.net]
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 12:43 PM
To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Thermostats



Hello All;

When I first got my car it overheated badly. I kept putting water in it. The
first trip up Pikes Peak (slow speed/high load) I stopped and put water in
ten or twelve times, maybe more. I carried 5 gallons of water with me, and
used most of it going up! I wrote emails to the group concerning
overheating. I got mostly responses back saying check the radiator. I did
and guess what? It was clogged! I cleaned it with little effect, but things
were a bit better. I was in a parade and had to pull out two blocks before
the finish due to overheating. The car right next to me was Bob Rich in his
J2. His car was hot too, but not as hot as mine. BTW the J2 has no water
pump. Water is circulated by heat rising and cool falling. I cleaned the
radiator some more! This time I took it to a professional, who claimed he
rodded it out, but I think he just boiled it. Anyway that made it a little
better, but the car still overheated and ran hot. Next I bought a 6 vane
water pump and installed a MGB fan blade. Now that really helped. The fan
blade made the engine incredibly smoother. OK, it's not stock and it is
noticeable, but it works and it is a bolt on change. No modification to the
car is necessary. I then bought a new radiator, and that seems to have
solved the problem completely. The last trip up Pikes Peak (last summer) the
temp never got over 85 degrees Celsius. I came home without adding ANY
water, and did not lose any on the trip. I am still running a completely
stock thermostat. I should also mention that I drove my car at 55 to 65 MPH
across Kansas for 75+ miles in 95 degree Fahrenheit sunshine last summer and
the temp never got over 85 degrees Celsius. Two last things I did. I set my
timing at 3000 RPM and adjusted my carburetors.

Here is a summary:

1. Make sure your radiator is flowing as it should. (REALLY IMPORTANT)

2. Install a 6 vane water pump. (ALSO IMPORTANT, and cheaper than a
thermostat with housing)

3. Install a MGB fan if you wish.

4. Check/set your timing.

5. Check/set your carburetor adjustment.

Now go drive your car and quit trying to find a way to modify something that
is not broken.

I don't mean to be critical of those of you who have installed a removable
thermostat. It just really complicates the cooling system as it was
designed. You all know that I am not opposed to modifying things,
particularly if it does no harm to the car. For me I would prefer to keep
the car as original as possible. My concern over the modern thermostat is
that the engine was not designed for it. My worry is that too much pressure
will build up and cause the soft plugs to pop out or the head gasket to
blow. This is supposed to be a non pressure cooling system. It works that
way for me. I am sure that those of you who have changed to a modern
thermostat will say that the pressure does not cause a problem either. You
are probably right.

One last thing, there may be some of you who do not know that you can check
your thermostat by putting it in hot water with a candy/cooking thermometer
and watch to see what temperature it is opening at. Mine starts to open just
over 100 Degrees Fahrenheit and is completely open about 175 degrees
Fahrenheit.

Anyway, there is my 2 cents and then some.

Have a great day.

Bud Silvers

TC 8192 - Low n slo in the Black Forest of Colorado......

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

BUD SILVERS
Posts: 0
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:51 am

Re: Thermostats

Post by BUD SILVERS » Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:00 am

John;



I believe that Bill Bollendonk in Denver uses a 4 core radiator. Also
something I just remembered that I left out of my saga was that while
attending the British Conclave in Denver last year I was parked with a
number of other TC's and noticed that the radiator slats on my car were
closed to the point that I could not stand in front of my car and see
through the slats to the radiator. On all the other TC's I could look
through the slats and see the radiator. They are quite easy to bend/open.
With them opened up the radiator can get air in the center of the radiator
where it is direly needed. With the slats closed it pushes all the air to
the outside where it is least effective.



All for now.



Bud Silvers

TC 8192 - Low n slo in the Black Forest of Colorado......



From: John Seim [mailto:kingseim@earthlink.net]
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 6:42 AM
Cc: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Thermostats



I fought overheating problems for eight years with my TC. I did every
suggestion
imaginable. Pulled out the core plugs, and flushed the engine. This
resulted in
partially blocking the radiator. Having the radiator rodded out. Having
the
distributor checked, for operation as well as shaft end play. The
phenolic
washer can break off separating the gear from the housing. The gear
will walk
up the camshaft as you rev the engine, and retard the timing. I even
had the
radiator recored, as a shop felt that was the problem.

The real problem was, the radiator core was wrong! Back when these car
had
bottomed in value, but were still daily drivers, and you took it to a
radiator shop
for a problem is when it probably happened. You needed a new radiator
core.
They could put in a two row core, or a three row core, like what was in
there.
The price difference was maybe $30.00 at the time. (Remember, this was
a daily
driver, worth $300.00). The shop said either one would work. The two
row core
was installed, and you had overheating problems, after a period of time.

I noticed that other members of the Vintage MG Club of Southern
California
had three row radiator cores, and they had no overheating problems! I
had
a three row, maximum cooling core installed, and no more problems.
Another
club member had just completed a restoration, and started experiencing
the
same problem. I looked at the tube placement at his top header tank,
and told
him he needed a new radiator core. He said that he had it recored. I
told him
that may be, but he needed a three row core installed, to solve the
problem.

John Seim
Irvine, CA
On Mar 7, 2008, at 11:42 AM, BUD SILVERS wrote:

> Hello All;
>
>
>
> When I first got my car it overheated badly. I kept putting water in
> it. The
> first trip up Pikes Peak (slow speed/high load) I stopped and put
> water in
> ten or twelve times, maybe more. I carried 5 gallons of water with me,
> and
> used most of it going up! I wrote emails to the group concerning
> overheating. I got mostly responses back saying check the radiator. I
> did
> and guess what? It was clogged! I cleaned it with little effect, but
> things
> were a bit better. I was in a parade and had to pull out two blocks
> before
> the finish due to overheating. The car right next to me was Bob Rich
> in his
> J2. His car was hot too, but not as hot as mine. BTW the J2 has no
> water
> pump. Water is circulated by heat rising and cool falling. I cleaned
> the
> radiator some more! This time I took it to a professional, who claimed
> he
> rodded it out, but I think he just boiled it. Anyway that made it a
> little
> better, but the car still overheated and ran hot. Next I bought a 6
> vane
> water pump and installed a MGB fan blade. Now that really helped. The
> fan
> blade made the engine incredibly smoother. OK, it's not stock and it is
> noticeable, but it works and it is a bolt on change. No modification
> to the
> car is necessary. I then bought a new radiator, and that seems to have
> solved the problem completely. The last trip up Pikes Peak (last
> summer) the
> temp never got over 85 degrees Celsius. I came home without adding ANY
> water, and did not lose any on the trip. I am still running a
> completely
> stock thermostat. I should also mention that I drove my car at 55 to
> 65 MPH
> across Kansas for 75+ miles in 95 degree Fahrenheit sunshine last
> summer and
> the temp never got over 85 degrees Celsius. Two last things I did. I
> set my
> timing at 3000 RPM and adjusted my carburetors.
>
>
>
> Here is a summary:
>
>
>
> 1. Make sure your radiator is flowing as it should. (REALLY
> IMPORTANT)
>
> 2. Install a 6 vane water pump. (ALSO IMPORTANT, and cheaper than
> a
> thermostat with housing)
>
> 3. Install a MGB fan if you wish.
>
> 4. Check/set your timing.
>
> 5. Check/set your carburetor adjustment.
>
>
>
> Now go drive your car and quit trying to find a way to modify
> something that
> is not broken.
>
>
>
> I don't mean to be critical of those of you who have installed a
> removable
> thermostat. It just really complicates the cooling system as it was
> designed. You all know that I am not opposed to modifying things,
> particularly if it does no harm to the car. For me I would prefer to
> keep
> the car as original as possible. My concern over the modern thermostat
> is
> that the engine was not designed for it. My worry is that too much
> pressure
> will build up and cause the soft plugs to pop out or the head gasket to
> blow. This is supposed to be a non pressure cooling system. It works
> that
> way for me. I am sure that those of you who have changed to a modern
> thermostat will say that the pressure does not cause a problem either.
> You
> are probably right.
>
>
>
> One last thing, there may be some of you who do not know that you can
> check
> your thermostat by putting it in hot water with a candy/cooking
> thermometer
> and watch to see what temperature it is opening at. Mine starts to
> open just
> over 100 Degrees Fahrenheit and is completely open about 175 degrees
> Fahrenheit.
>
> Anyway, there is my 2 cents and then some.
>
>
>
> Have a great day.
>
>
>
> Bud Silvers
>
> TC 8192 - Low n slo in the Black Forest of Colorado......





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

squeaky_isabella
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:17 pm

Re: Thermostats

Post by squeaky_isabella » Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:06 am

To all radiator respondants,

Hey, that was a good exchange about cooling. Thanks all. We are not
too old to learn after all. One more comment though. Bud's comment
about cavitation of the impeller is perhaps somthing to think
about. With the thermostat below (ahead of) the blocked bypass,
unless there is a bleed hole in the thermostat this may be an issue
so don't forget to drill one. From what I have learned 1/4" is the
right size.

Bjorn TC 7773
Silverton, Oregon


--- In mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com, Stephen D Stierman
wrote:
>
> None of them build any pressure, as we know the TC is
> not a pressurized cooling system as it came from the
> works.
> regards,
> Steve Stierman TC 2911, in Ohio in the middle of a
> major snow storm.
>
>
> --- "Steve S." wrote:
>
> > Build pressure? Please elaborate!
> >
> > - Steve S, TC8975, LA, CA -
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Stephen D Stierman
> > To: BUD SILVERS ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 3:34 PM
> > Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Thermostats
> >
> > Hi Bud,
> > Rest assured I only replaced my original
> > thermostat
> > with a modern unit because the original was toast,
> > stuck open, cocked, falling apart etc.etc. A
> > modern
> > 'stat does nothing to build up pressure that the
> > original would do if working properly. For those
> > doubters, I saw no ill activity coming from my
> > radiator, glowing embers or newts eyes, hot spots
> > or
> > bubbling liquid. Likely half of them were run
> > without
> > thermostats before we came along and restored them
> > anyway.
> > Best regards
> > Steve Stierman TC2911,_._,___
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> >
> >
>

Mark Deacon
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:40 pm

Thermostats

Post by Mark Deacon » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:13 am

Hi All
As usual I am late into this subject. I tend only to use my T types on lovely summer days nowadays. For the last few years I have removed the thermostat completely from my cars. I hope I don't spark too much controversy, but I think our cars tend to run hot in recent years. I see the thermostat as being a blockage in an already slow moving waterway. I don't know if in right, but when you see the tiny opening the thermostat has, I just think it really limits the general flow of water around the system. I may have this wrong , but havnt had any problems since doing this and my engines run at a nice temperature.
Regards
Mark

Sent from my iPhone

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