Re: Engine Break In

[Rothgene Roth]

In the late thirties a friend raced a sprint car and it seemed the car was never ready until the day before the race, he used that method to seat the rings, used Bonami.
There is another method, find a deserted road and while in high gear slow to approx. 15 MPH and put the throttle to the floor to approx. 40 MPH, do this several times. The theory is it washes down the cylinder walls and accelerates wear thus faster seating of the rings.
Gene Roth

----- Original Message ----- .
From: Jay Lockrow
To: Bruce Collins
Cc: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 6:52 AM
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Engine Break In


Are you sure these people are your friends?????

Bruce Collins wrote:

> All,
>
> I've just completed an engine rebuild, XPAG #3355.
>
> Some of my "Detroit Iron" friends told me to put Comet or Ajax thru the Carbs.
> This helps in setting the rings, I was told.
>
> I have never heard of this before and considering that I grew up in a family of engine
> mechanics I thought I would have.
>
> Has anyone on the site ever heard of this before? Your Reponses, please.
>
> Bruce
> TC#2721 XPAG#3355
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>




Yahoo! Groups Links








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[D&J Edgar]

> There is another method, find a deserted road and while in high gear slow to
> approx. 15 MPH and put the throttle to the floor to approx. 40 MPH, do this
> several times. The theory is it washes down the cylinder walls and accelerates
> wear thus faster seating of the rings.

I often wondered if this method would work with SU carbs. I can see it
working with a carb with an accelerator pump but not sure with an SU or even
modern fuel injection. But what about accelerating with the choke pulled
down on the SU? That would enrich the mixture to do a wash possibly.

David Edgar, TC 5108
El Cajon, California

[Bruce Collins]

To All!

I thank you for your responses. I do cherished them and believe this is a
great site to get answers!
To me, as an engineer, I could understand how this method may work. That is,
on a downdraft engine.
However, I can only wonder how one would get an even displacement of the
powder around the rings and cylinder walls,
on a "side draft" engine as ours.

Thanks again all for your responses! You have certainly convinced me NOT to
do it!

Bruce
TC#2721 with a newly rebuilt XPAG#3355

PS! Thanks Skip Kelsey for your response and items purchased to make this
rebuild happen! Most
especially.......................... THE NEW CRANK!!!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Collins"
To:
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 5:48 AM
Subject: [mg-tabc] Engine Break In


> All,
>
> I've just completed an engine rebuild, XPAG #3355.
>
> Some of my "Detroit Iron" friends told me to put Comet or Ajax thru the
> Carbs.
> This helps in setting the rings, I was told.
>
> I have never heard of this before and considering that I grew up in a
> family of engine
> mechanics I thought I would have.
>
> Has anyone on the site ever heard of this before? Your Reponses, please.
>
> Bruce
> TC#2721 XPAG#3355
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[davjak@aol.com]

What ever happen to just taking it easy on the old girl for the first 1K
miles? So when the abrasive gets in the oil and puts the equivalent of 50K miles
on the engine then what?
I would not do it.
Dave- Lexus with 300k miles and was not broke in with Comet...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[E.Worpe]

I've heard about the use of Ajax powder in diesel engines that
have been allowed to idle for too long, resulting in "glazing" of
the cylinder bores. As many respondents have pointed out, it's a
rather drastic method with some potentially harmful side effects.
A colleague recently had his motorcycle engine rebored and ran
the carb. to give a rich mixture. Too rich unfortunately, as the
bores were "scored" due to "wash down" of any oil film. I'm a little
wary of accelerating piston ring and bore wear to help "bed in".
The SU carb does indeed provide an enriched mixture on acceleration.
This is due to the oil dashpot, which delays the response of the piston
in lifting when the throtle is opened. The SU is quite ingenious, as
it also provides temperature compensation in its enrichment feature.
When cold, the oil in the dashpot is quite viscous and significantly
delays the response of the piston, thus giving substantial enrichment
when it's most needed. As the engine warms up, the viscosity of the oil
falls and thus reduces the degree of enrichment on acceleration. A
rather simple but effective way of tailoring the degree of enrichment
to the needs of the engine over a range of temperatures.
Regards, Eric.

-----Original Message-----

> There is another method, find a deserted road and while in high gear slow to
> approx. 15 MPH and put the throttle to the floor to approx. 40 MPH, do this
> several times. The theory is it washes down the cylinder walls and accelerates
> wear thus faster seating of the rings.

I often wondered if this method would work with SU carbs. I can see it
working with a carb with an accelerator pump but not sure with an SU or even
modern fuel injection. But what about accelerating with the choke pulled
down on the SU? That would enrich the mixture to do a wash possibly.











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Clive Sherriff]

True - it should work in principle, but it will result in a
harsh abrasive effect, and quite likely scoring of the
bores and pistons, rather than the progressive
seating that is needed. If you have also put in new
rod and main bearings it stuffs these at the same
time making the excersise somewhat counterproductive.....

Also use of advanced modern oils may well mean
that, in our engines, the rings will only partly seat with
high polish bore and ring sections, and still leaving
gaps. An old fashioned straight 30 or 40 Nol is still
the best fill for the first 500 or so miles to my mind.

Clive

===============================

----- Original Message -----
From: "D&J Edgar"
To: "TABC"
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Engine Break In


> > There is another method, find a deserted road and while in high gear
slow to
> > approx. 15 MPH and put the throttle to the floor to approx. 40 MPH, do
this
> > several times. The theory is it washes down the cylinder walls and
accelerates
> > wear thus faster seating of the rings.
>
> I often wondered if this method would work with SU carbs. I can see it
> working with a carb with an accelerator pump but not sure with an SU or
even
> modern fuel injection. But what about accelerating with the choke pulled
> down on the SU? That would enrich the mixture to do a wash possibly.
>
> David Edgar, TC 5108
> El Cajon, California
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

[joecurto@aol.com]

Whenever I rebuilt an engine I used Castrol 20/50 or 10/40 and
followed the recommendations of the ring mfg. on break in. This was usually to drive
local streets and vary the RPM up shifting and down shifting, not driving at
a set RPM for long periods. I would not use Ajax (but the old timers used to
say Bon-Ami did the trick) but I never did and always had good running engines.
Just because these things are from the 1930-40-50s does not mean we should
not embrace more modern ideas, but I would save using synthetic oil until some
miles on regular petroleum oil have been piled on.

Joe curto


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[mrbadger@comcast.net]

Well, if I can jump in here with a few comments. Back when I was doing the race prep for the Crown Prince of the Kingdom of Tonga for his Tonga Gran Prix, we had a few tricks for breaking in an engine quickly which included substituting common, old fashioned valve grinding compound for assembly lube when building the engine then firing it up and running at about 6K RPM without any additional oil or lubrication as the valve grinding compound, itself, has an oil base. I would not suggest running an engine in this way for more than about 4 or 5 hours as once your running clearances exceed a quarter inch or so, your oil pressure will start to suffer. An equally viable alternative would be to simply add 2 or 3 ounces of the same valve grinding compound to the sump oil and then drive the car in a normal way for about 3 thousand miles or until bits of piston start to fall from the tailpipe. I can still hear the words of the Crown Prince himself ringing in my ear as he said, "We'll beat those Damn Pommy Bastards this time". It is still not clear to me, exactly what he meant by that.

Here's another tip. With the high price of oil these days, any small saving will be welcomed by most T series owners, so the next time you have your sump off, my suggestion is to fill the bottom of it with clean, common gravel or crushed stone. This simple procedure will have the effect of reducing the capacity so that you will be able to get your oil changes down to about two quarts or less!

For saving gas, you can't beat this tip. Remove one of your Carburetor dashpots and superglue it in the fully down position and then replace it on its base. This simple procedure while allow you to retain the original appearance or "look", which I know is uppermost in the minds of most T series owners, and at the same time cut your fuel consumption by nearly half as your engine will now be running on one carb instead of the wasteful, two. Of course, your performance may suffer somewhat but when the paperboy on his bicycle beats you off the line at a stoplight, just like he always has, at least you can say that you're "saving gas".

Although the preceding methods have all been used successfully, obviously, results may vary from car to car so, the author can accept no responsibility for any results which other owners may encounter.

Badger



-------------- Original message --------------

> True - it should work in principle, but it will result in a
> harsh abrasive effect, and quite likely scoring of the
> bores and pistons, rather than the progressive
> seating that is needed. If you have also put in new
> rod and main bearings it stuffs these at the same
> time making the excersise somewhat counterproductive.....
>
> Also use of advanced modern oils may well mean
> that, in our engines, the rings will only partly seat with
> high polish bore and ring sections, and still leaving
> gaps. An old fashioned straight 30 or 40 Nol is still
> the best fill for the first 500 or so miles to my mind.
>
> Clive
>
> ===============================
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "D&J Edgar"
> To: "TABC"
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Engine Break In
>
>
> > > There is another method, find a deserted road and while in high gear
> slow to
> > > approx. 15 MPH and put the throttle to the floor to approx. 40 MPH, do
> this
> > > several times. The theory is it washes down the cylinder walls and
> accelerates
> > > wear thus faster seating of the rings.
> >
> > I often wondered if this method would work with SU carbs. I can see it
> > working with a carb with an accelerator pump but not sure with an SU or
> even
> > modern fuel injection. But what about accelerating with the choke pulled
> > down on the SU? That would enrich the mixture to do a wash possibly.
> >
> > David Edgar, TC 5108
> > El Cajon, California
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[49 MG TC]

Gotta say that I love this one!!!!
You make some very good points!!!

By the way, I would offer to race you for pink slips, but then if I won I
would have to rebuild your engine wouldn't I?

Do you have any tips for transmissions, rear ends, or (God Forbid)
BRAKES!!!???

Bud Silvers
TC 8192
Low N Slow in the Black Forest of Colorado.

-----Original Message-----
From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
Of mrbadger@comcast.net
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 7:36 AM
To: TABC
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Engine Break In


Well, if I can jump in here with a few comments. Back when I was doing the
race prep for the Crown Prince of the Kingdom of Tonga for his Tonga Gran
Prix, we had a few tricks for breaking in an engine quickly which included
substituting common, old fashioned valve grinding compound for assembly lube
when building the engine then firing it up and running at about 6K RPM
without any additional oil or lubrication as the valve grinding compound,
itself, has an oil base. I would not suggest running an engine in this way
for more than about 4 or 5 hours as once your running clearances exceed a
quarter inch or so, your oil pressure will start to suffer. An equally
viable alternative would be to simply add 2 or 3 ounces of the same valve
grinding compound to the sump oil and then drive the car in a normal way for
about 3 thousand miles or until bits of piston start to fall from the
tailpipe. I can still hear the words of the Crown Prince himself ringing in
my ear as he said, "We'll beat those Damn Pommy Bastards this time". It is
still not clear to me, exactly what he meant by that.

Here's another tip. With the high price of oil these days, any small saving
will be welcomed by most T series owners, so the next time you have your
sump off, my suggestion is to fill the bottom of it with clean, common
gravel or crushed stone. This simple procedure will have the effect of
reducing the capacity so that you will be able to get your oil changes down
to about two quarts or less!

For saving gas, you can't beat this tip. Remove one of your Carburetor
dashpots and superglue it in the fully down position and then replace it on
its base. This simple procedure while allow you to retain the original
appearance or "look", which I know is uppermost in the minds of most T
series owners, and at the same time cut your fuel consumption by nearly half
as your engine will now be running on one carb instead of the wasteful, two.
Of course, your performance may suffer somewhat but when the paperboy on his
bicycle beats you off the line at a stoplight, just like he always has, at
least you can say that you're "saving gas".

Although the preceding methods have all been used successfully, obviously,
results may vary from car to car so, the author can accept no responsibility
for any results which other owners may encounter.

Badger



-------------- Original message --------------

> True - it should work in principle, but it will result in a
> harsh abrasive effect, and quite likely scoring of the
> bores and pistons, rather than the progressive
> seating that is needed. If you have also put in new
> rod and main bearings it stuffs these at the same
> time making the excersise somewhat counterproductive.....
>
> Also use of advanced modern oils may well mean
> that, in our engines, the rings will only partly seat with
> high polish bore and ring sections, and still leaving
> gaps. An old fashioned straight 30 or 40 Nol is still
> the best fill for the first 500 or so miles to my mind.
>
> Clive
>
> ===============================
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "D&J Edgar"
> To: "TABC"
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Engine Break In
>
>
> > > There is another method, find a deserted road and while in high gear
> slow to
> > > approx. 15 MPH and put the throttle to the floor to approx. 40 MPH, do
> this
> > > several times. The theory is it washes down the cylinder walls and
> accelerates
> > > wear thus faster seating of the rings.
> >
> > I often wondered if this method would work with SU carbs. I can see it
> > working with a carb with an accelerator pump but not sure with an SU or
> even
> > modern fuel injection. But what about accelerating with the choke pulled
> > down on the SU? That would enrich the mixture to do a wash possibly.
> >
> > David Edgar, TC 5108
> > El Cajon, California
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Yahoo! Groups Links

[Chip Old]

ROTFL!! Welcome back, Badger!

On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 13:36 -0000, mrbadger@comcast.net wrote:

> Well, if I can jump in here with a few comments. Back when I was doing
> the race prep for the Crown Prince of the Kingdom of Tonga for his Tonga
> Gran Prix, we had a few tricks for breaking in an engine quickly which
> included substituting common, old fashioned valve grinding compound for
> assembly lube when building the engine then firing it up and running at
> about 6K RPM without any additional oil or lubrication as the valve
> grinding compound, itself, has an oil base. I would not suggest running
> an engine in this way for more than about 4 or 5 hours as once your
> running clearances exceed a quarter inch or so, your oil pressure will
> start to suffer. An equally viable alternative would be to simply add 2
> or 3 ounces of the same valve grinding compound to the sump oil and then
> drive the car in a normal way for about 3 thousand miles or until bits
> of piston start to fall from the tailpipe. I can still hear the words
> of the Crown Prince himself ringing in my ear as he said, "We 'll beat
> those Damn Pommy Bastards this time". It is still not clear to me,
> exactly what he meant by that.
>
> Here's another tip. With the high price of oil these days, any small
> saving will be welcomed by most T series owners, so the next time you
> have your sump off, my suggestion is to fill the bottom of it with
> clean, common gravel or crushed stone. This simple procedure will have
> the effect of reducing the capacity so that you will be able to get your
> oil changes down to about two quarts or less!
>
> For saving gas, you can't beat this tip. Remove one of your Carburetor
> dashpots and superglue it in the fully down position and then replace it
> on its base. This simple procedure while allow you to retain the
> original appearance or "look", which I know is uppermost in the minds of
> most T series owners, and at the same time cut your fuel consumption by
> nearly half as your engine will now be running on one carb instead of
> the wasteful, two. Of course, your performance may suffer somewhat but
> when the paperboy on his bicycle beats you off the line at a stoplight,
> just like he always has, at least you can say that you're "saving gas".
>
> Although the preceding methods have all been used successfully,
> obviously, results may vary from car to car so, the author can accept no
> responsibility for any results which other owners may encounter.
>
> Badger
>
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
>> True - it should work in principle, but it will result in a
>> harsh abrasive effect, and quite likely scoring of the
>> bores and pistons, rather than the progressive
>> seating that is needed. If you have also put in new
>> rod and main bearings it stuffs these at the same
>> time making the excersise somewhat counterproductive.....
>>
>> Also use of advanced modern oils may well mean
>> that, in our engines, the rings will only partly seat with
>> high polish bore and ring sections, and still leaving
>> gaps. An old fashioned straight 30 or 40 Nol is still
>> the best fill for the first 500 or so miles to my mind.
>>
>> Clive
>>
>> ===============================
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "D&J Edgar"
>> To: "TABC"
>> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:29 PM
>> Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Engine Break In
>>
>>
>>>> There is another method, find a deserted road and while in high gear
>> slow to
>>>> approx. 15 MPH and put the throttle to the floor to approx. 40 MPH, do
>> this
>>>> several times. The theory is it washes down the cylinder walls and
>> accelerates
>>>> wear thus faster seating of the rings.
>>>
>>> I often wondered if this method would work with SU carbs. I can see it
>>> working with a carb with an accelerator pump but not sure with an SU or
>> even
>>> modern fuel injection. But what about accelerating with the choke pulled
>>> down on the SU? That would enrich the mixture to do a wash possibly.
>>>
>>> David Edgar, TC 5108
>>> El Cajon, California
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
Chip Old 1948 M.G. TC
Cub Hill, Maryland, US TC6710 XPAG7430
fold@bcpl.net NEMGTR #2271