Valve rocker clearances

[Liz Harris]

Hi Pete, I`m quoting the Brown book and the brass plate on the rocker-box cover....and that will do for me...I also check them with the engine running... and yep the oil goes everywhere.. A happy Tweed.. TC 2259 Cambridge England... Peter Roberts mgtc@comcast.net> wrote: I think you and your engine will be a lot happier if you adjust the valves on a cold engine. Even a warm engine will give you false (i.e. too tight) readings. At least, that's what I've been told and follow on my car. _Peter

----- Original Message ----- From: Liz Harris To: Peter Roberts ; Maurice Paton ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances ....sorry Peter,a warm engine......as for the 12 thou on a TD....d`know !!! Peter Roberts wrote: "hot motor"?????? _Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liz Harris" To: "Maurice Paton" ; Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances > Hi Maurice, when you say `standard`, do you mean Crane`s replacement for > an original profile and lift? in which case should`nt they should be set > at 19 thou....on a hot motor.... > Tweed > TC 2259 Cambridge, England. > > Maurice Paton wrote: > I have just completed a total rebuild on my TC engine during which the > camshaft was replace with a standard 'Crane' cam from Moss Motors. Does > anyone have any information regarding recommended rocker clearances > using this cam? Currently they are set at 15 thou. > > Maurice TC9357 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PCcalling worldwide with > voicemail > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PCcalling worldwide with voicemail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[ian thomson]

Sorry Gene I just don't buy that. Sure all clearances must be correct at operating temperature; and sure things expand at different rates and amounts; but the correct hot adjustment must be able to be expressed as a corresponding cold setting. Unless that is you are suggesting that everything expands and contracts to give fixed hot clearances but variable cold clearances. This would be against the laws of physics surely. The factory certainly quoted hot settings but surely one of us could set them hot and let them cool down before remeasuring them and thus avoid the dangers of the last measurement being less than it should be because the darned thing has cooled down somewhat before we get round to adjusting it. All but the first would be wrong under these circumstances....unless of course we run the engine back up to temperature for every rocker. Have you tried running the engine with the rocker cover off? It's an interesting and messy experience as well as being somewhat wasteful of oil. Ian Thomson. =------ --- Rothgene Roth rothgene@msn.com> wrote:

> Peter, > Your engine will be a lot happier if you adjust the > valves on a hot engine, the reason being that you > are operating your engine at the elevated > temperature and everything is now stabilized, > everything in the engine expands & contracts at a > different rate, and it is at this time that > clearance should be to specification. Nuff said. > Gene Roth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Peter Robertsmgtc@comcast.net> > To: Liz Harrislizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk> ; > Maurice Patonmaurice.paton@wam.co.nz> ; >

mg-tabc@yahoogroups.commg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>

> > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 11:27 AM > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances > > > I think you and your engine will be a lot happier > if you adjust the valves on a cold engine. Even a > warm engine will give you false (i.e. too tight) > readings. At least, that's what I've been told and > follow on my car. > > _Peter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Liz Harris > To: Peter Roberts ; Maurice Paton ; >

mg-tabc@yahoogroups.commg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>

> > Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 6:12 PM > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances > > > ....sorry Peter,a warm engine......as for the 12 > thou on a TD....d`know !!! > > > > Peter Roberts > mgtc@comcast.netmgtc@comcast.net>> wrote: > "hot motor"?????? > > _Peter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Liz Harris" > To: "Maurice Paton" ; > Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 7:39 PM > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances > > > > Hi Maurice, when you say `standard`, do you > mean Crane`s replacement for > > an original profile and lift? in which case > should`nt they should be set > > at 19 thou....on a hot motor.... > > Tweed > > TC 2259 Cambridge, England. > > > > Maurice Paton wrote: > > I have just completed a total rebuild on my > TC engine during which the > > camshaft was replace with a standard 'Crane' > cam from Moss Motors. Does > > anyone have any information regarding > recommended rocker clearances > > using this cam? Currently they are set at 15 > thou. > > > > Maurice TC9357 > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to > PCcalling worldwide with > > voicemail > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

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[Peter Roberts]

Rick I had my rockers refaced and found that the pushrods were too long. Called the shop and they had me send them the rods. They took them down about 2 thou and everything fit just right. _Peter

----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Waters" rwmgtc@yahoo.ca> To: "Rothgene Roth" rothgene@msn.com>; "Peter Roberts" mgtc@comcast.net>; "Maurice Paton" maurice.paton@wam.co.nz>; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>; "Liz Harris" lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances >I use this Cam, and I just set both to 19 thou hot. > > BTW, I did not need new pushrods, perhaps because my rockers have been > refaced at the valve stem end. I wonder if using new rockers would > necessitate the shorter pushrods. > > If so, can pushrods be shortened by a competent machine shop. It seems the > ends are just pushed in to the tubular rods, then the rods are hammered to > hold the ends in place. > > -rick > > Rothgene Roth rothgene@msn.com> wrote: > Hi > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rothgene Roth > To: Peter Roberts ; Maurice Paton ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com ; Liz Harris > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 10:23 AM > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances > > > Group, > The valve setting for the Crane cam shaft part #340-0002, grind #553-OS > is: Intake .018, Exhaust .020 HOT. This is the cam shaft referred to as > the " standard " grind. They state: " If pushrods are too long use Crane > pushrod part # 905-0003. > I have this set up in my TC. > Crane PH. # 386 258 6174 > Gene Roth > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Liz Harris > To: Peter Roberts ; Maurice Paton ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 3:12 PM > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances > > > ....sorry Peter,a warm engine......as for the 12 thou on a TD....d`know > !!! > > > > Peter Roberts > wrote: > "hot motor"?????? > > _Peter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Liz Harris" > > To: "Maurice Paton" ; > Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 7:39 PM > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances > > >> Hi Maurice, when you say `standard`, do you mean Crane`s replacement for >> an original profile and lift? in which case should`nt they should be set >> at 19 thou....on a hot motor.... >> Tweed >> TC 2259 Cambridge, England. >> >> Maurice Paton wrote: >> I have just completed a total rebuild on my TC engine during which the >> camshaft was replace with a standard 'Crane' cam from Moss Motors. Does >> anyone have any information regarding recommended rocker clearances >> using this cam? Currently they are set at 15 thou. >> >> Maurice TC9357 >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PCcalling worldwide with >> voicemail >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PCcalling worldwide with > voicemail > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > -Rick Waters > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

[fnitz]

I have worked on engines since 1955 and the valve clearances were always specified hot on the engines I worked on. After setting hot and then checking cold, there is an equivalent setting but it is not the same valve to valve. Engines do expand at different rates throughout. It may be less of an issue with four cylinders than six or eight, but I was always taught to set valves hot. Fred TC1353 -----Original Message----- From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ian thomson Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 1:08 AM To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances Sorry Gene I just don't buy that. Sure all clearances must be correct at operating temperature; and sure things expand at different rates and amounts; but the correct hot adjustment must be able to be expressed as a corresponding cold setting. Unless that is you are suggesting that everything expands and contracts to give fixed hot clearances but variable cold clearances. This would be against the laws of physics surely. The factory certainly quoted hot settings but surely one of us could set them hot and let them cool down before remeasuring them and thus avoid the dangers of the last measurement being less than it should be because the darned thing has cooled down somewhat before we get round to adjusting it. All but the first would be wrong under these circumstances....unless of course we run the engine back up to temperature for every rocker. Have you tried running the engine with the rocker cover off? It's an interesting and messy experience as well as being somewhat wasteful of oil. Ian Thomson. =------ --- Rothgene Roth rothgene@msn.com> wrote:

> Peter, > Your engine will be a lot happier if you adjust the > valves on a hot engine, the reason being that you > are operating your engine at the elevated > temperature and everything is now stabilized, > everything in the engine expands & contracts at a > different rate, and it is at this time that > clearance should be to specification. Nuff said. > Gene Roth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Peter Robertsmgtc@comcast.net> > To: Liz Harrislizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk> ; > Maurice Patonmaurice.paton@wam.co.nz> ; >

mg-tabc@yahoogroups.commg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>

> > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 11:27 AM > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances > > > I think you and your engine will be a lot happier > if you adjust the valves on a cold engine. Even a > warm engine will give you false (i.e. too tight) > readings. At least, that's what I've been told and > follow on my car. > > _Peter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Liz Harris > To: Peter Roberts ; Maurice Paton ; >

mg-tabc@yahoogroups.commg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>

> > Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 6:12 PM > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances > > > ....sorry Peter,a warm engine......as for the 12 > thou on a TD....d`know !!! > > > > Peter Roberts > mgtc@comcast.netmgtc@comcast.net>> wrote: > "hot motor"?????? > > _Peter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Liz Harris" > To: "Maurice Paton" ; > Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 7:39 PM > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances > > > > Hi Maurice, when you say `standard`, do you > mean Crane`s replacement for > > an original profile and lift? in which case > should`nt they should be set > > at 19 thou....on a hot motor.... > > Tweed > > TC 2259 Cambridge, England. > > > > Maurice Paton wrote: > > I have just completed a total rebuild on my > TC engine during which the > > camshaft was replace with a standard 'Crane' > cam from Moss Motors. Does > > anyone have any information regarding > recommended rocker clearances > > using this cam? Currently they are set at 15 > thou. > > > > Maurice TC9357 > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to > PCcalling worldwide with > > voicemail > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

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[fnitz]

Peter, Thanks. My logic in setting valve clearances hot is that it is more representative of a running engine. If a manufacturer gives cold clearances, a different number would be needed for a hot engine. If the clearances are too small, there less time for valve contact with the seat, hence they will run somewhat hotter. This would be more important with a high-compression hotter running engine. I think the TC numbers are for a cold engine. Fred -----Original Message----- From: Peter Roberts [mailto:mgtc@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 12:44 PM To: 'ian thomson'; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com; fnitz Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances Fred, Let me share a message I sent Gene Roth yesterday: "Fascinating. I have before me two workshop manuals, one from Mercedes, and one from Jaguar. Both are explicit that valves are to be adjusted on cold engines. To quote Mercedes, " The valve clearance on all gasoline engines should be checked and, if necessary, adjusted when the engine is cold." My original TC Owner Manual is not specific on hot or cold engine adjustment. My Chilton TC Manual is clear that it should be hot. Blower is specific that it should be hot. What does Mercedes know that Chilton and Blower don't? _Peter "

----- Original Message ----- From: "fnitz" fnitz@pacbell.net> To: "'ian thomson'" i.thomson@talk21.com>; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 12:36 PM Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances >I have worked on engines since 1955 and the valve clearances were always > specified hot on the engines I worked on. After setting hot and then > checking cold, there is an equivalent setting but it is not the same valve > to valve. Engines do expand at different rates throughout. It may be less > of > an issue with four cylinders than six or eight, but I was always taught to > set valves hot. > Fred TC1353 > > -----Original Message----- > From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of > ian thomson > Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 1:08 AM > To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances > > Sorry Gene I just don't buy that. Sure all clearances > must be correct at operating temperature; and sure > things expand at different rates and amounts; but the > correct hot adjustment must be able to be expressed as > a corresponding cold setting. Unless that is you are > suggesting that everything expands and contracts to > give fixed hot clearances but variable cold > clearances. This would be against the laws of physics > surely. The factory certainly quoted hot settings but > surely one of us could set them hot and let them cool > down before remeasuring them and thus avoid the > dangers of the last measurement being less than it > should be because the darned thing has cooled down > somewhat before we get round to adjusting it. All but > the first would be wrong under these > circumstances....unless of course we run the engine > back up to temperature for every rocker. Have you > tried running the engine with the rocker cover off? > It's an interesting and messy experience as well as > being somewhat wasteful of oil. > > Ian Thomson. > > =------ > --- Rothgene Roth rothgene@msn.com> wrote: > >> Peter, >> Your engine will be a lot happier if you adjust the >> valves on a hot engine, the reason being that you >> are operating your engine at the elevated >> temperature and everything is now stabilized, >> everything in the engine expands & contracts at a >> different rate, and it is at this time that >> clearance should be to specification. Nuff said. >> Gene Roth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Peter Robertsmgtc@comcast.net> >> To: Liz Harrislizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk> ; >> Maurice Patonmaurice.paton@wam.co.nz> ; >> > mg-tabc@yahoogroups.commg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 11:27 AM >> Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances >> >> >> I think you and your engine will be a lot happier >> if you adjust the valves on a cold engine. Even a >> warm engine will give you false (i.e. too tight) >> readings. At least, that's what I've been told and >> follow on my car. >> >> _Peter >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Liz Harris >> To: Peter Roberts ; Maurice Paton ; >> > mg-tabc@yahoogroups.commg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> >> >> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 6:12 PM >> Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances >> >> >> ....sorry Peter,a warm engine......as for the 12 >> thou on a TD....d`know !!! >> >> >> >> Peter Roberts >> mgtc@comcast.netmgtc@comcast.net>> wrote: >> "hot motor"?????? >> >> _Peter >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Liz Harris" >> To: "Maurice Paton" ; >> Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 7:39 PM >> Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances >> >> >> > Hi Maurice, when you say `standard`, do you >> mean Crane`s replacement for >> > an original profile and lift? in which case >> should`nt they should be set >> > at 19 thou....on a hot motor.... >> > Tweed >> > TC 2259 Cambridge, England. >> > >> > Maurice Paton wrote: >> > I have just completed a total rebuild on my >> TC engine during which the >> > camshaft was replace with a standard 'Crane' >> cam from Moss Motors. Does >> > anyone have any information regarding >> recommended rocker clearances >> > using this cam? Currently they are set at 15 >> thou. >> > >> > Maurice TC9357 >> > >> > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been >> removed] >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > --------------------------------- >> > Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to >> PCcalling worldwide with >> > voicemail >> > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been >> removed] >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- >> Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC >> calling worldwide with voicemail >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been >> removed] >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been >> removed] >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> mg-tabc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday > snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

[Liz Harris]

....some cars I`ve had have specified that the valve/rocker clearance is set with a cold engine and obviously quote the appropiate figure, like I said I was quoting not only the instruction manual but the plate on the rocker box.....or did MG get it wrong!.. fnitz fnitz@pacbell.net> wrote:I have worked on engines since 1955 and the valve clearances were always specified hot on the engines I worked on. After setting hot and then checking cold, there is an equivalent setting but it is not the same valve to valve. Engines do expand at different rates throughout. It may be less of an issue with four cylinders than six or eight, but I was always taught to set valves hot. Fred TC1353 -----Original Message----- From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ian thomson Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 1:08 AM To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances Sorry Gene I just don't buy that. Sure all clearances must be correct at operating temperature; and sure things expand at different rates and amounts; but the correct hot adjustment must be able to be expressed as a corresponding cold setting. Unless that is you are suggesting that everything expands and contracts to give fixed hot clearances but variable cold clearances. This would be against the laws of physics surely. The factory certainly quoted hot settings but surely one of us could set them hot and let them cool down before remeasuring them and thus avoid the dangers of the last measurement being less than it should be because the darned thing has cooled down somewhat before we get round to adjusting it. All but the first would be wrong under these circumstances....unless of course we run the engine back up to temperature for every rocker. Have you tried running the engine with the rocker cover off? It's an interesting and messy experience as well as being somewhat wasteful of oil. Ian Thomson. =------ --- Rothgene Roth wrote:

> Peter, > Your engine will be a lot happier if you adjust the > valves on a hot engine, the reason being that you > are operating your engine at the elevated > temperature and everything is now stabilized, > everything in the engine expands & contracts at a > different rate, and it is at this time that > clearance should be to specification. Nuff said. > Gene Roth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Peter Roberts > To: Liz Harris ; > Maurice Paton ; >

mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com

> > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 11:27 AM > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances > > > I think you and your engine will be a lot happier > if you adjust the valves on a cold engine. Even a > warm engine will give you false (i.e. too tight) > readings. At least, that's what I've been told and > follow on my car. > > _Peter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Liz Harris > To: Peter Roberts ; Maurice Paton ; >

mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com

> > Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 6:12 PM > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances > > > ....sorry Peter,a warm engine......as for the 12 > thou on a TD....d`know !!! > > > > Peter Roberts > > wrote: > "hot motor"?????? > > _Peter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Liz Harris" > To: "Maurice Paton" ; > Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 7:39 PM > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances > > > > Hi Maurice, when you say `standard`, do you > mean Crane`s replacement for > > an original profile and lift? in which case > should`nt they should be set > > at 19 thou....on a hot motor.... > > Tweed > > TC 2259 Cambridge, England. > > > > Maurice Paton wrote: > > I have just completed a total rebuild on my > TC engine during which the > > camshaft was replace with a standard 'Crane' > cam from Moss Motors. Does > > anyone have any information regarding > recommended rocker clearances > > using this cam? Currently they are set at 15 > thou. > > > > Maurice TC9357 > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to > PCcalling worldwide with > > voicemail > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

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> Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC > calling worldwide with voicemail > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > mg-tabc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > >

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[Charles Hill]

I've always gone by the TC Instruction Manual which states on page Fifty-two "The clearance should be .019" (.48mm.) for all valves when the engine is hot." Regards, Charles Hill Liz Harris wrote:

>....some cars I`ve had have specified that the valve/rocker clearance is set with a cold engine and obviously quote the appropiate figure, like I said I was quoting not only the instruction manual but the plate on the rocker box.....or did MG get it wrong!.. > >fnitz fnitz@pacbell.net> wrote:I have worked on engines since 1955 and the valve clearances were always >specified hot on the engines I worked on. After setting hot and then >checking cold, there is an equivalent setting but it is not the same valve >to valve. Engines do expand at different rates throughout. It may be less of >an issue with four cylinders than six or eight, but I was always taught to >set valves hot. >Fred TC1353 > >-----Original Message----- >From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of >ian thomson >Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 1:08 AM >To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances > >Sorry Gene I just don't buy that. Sure all clearances >must be correct at operating temperature; and sure >things expand at different rates and amounts; but the >correct hot adjustment must be able to be expressed as >a corresponding cold setting. Unless that is you are >suggesting that everything expands and contracts to >give fixed hot clearances but variable cold >clearances. This would be against the laws of physics >surely. The factory certainly quoted hot settings but >surely one of us could set them hot and let them cool >down before remeasuring them and thus avoid the >dangers of the last measurement being less than it >should be because the darned thing has cooled down >somewhat before we get round to adjusting it. All but >the first would be wrong under these >circumstances....unless of course we run the engine >back up to temperature for every rocker. Have you >tried running the engine with the rocker cover off? >It's an interesting and messy experience as well as >being somewhat wasteful of oil. > >Ian Thomson. > >=------ >--- Rothgene Roth wrote: > > > >>Peter, >>Your engine will be a lot happier if you adjust the >>valves on a hot engine, the reason being that you >>are operating your engine at the elevated >>temperature and everything is now stabilized, >>everything in the engine expands & contracts at a >>different rate, and it is at this time that >>clearance should be to specification. Nuff said. >>Gene Roth >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: Peter Roberts >>To: Liz Harris ; >>Maurice Paton ; >> >> >> >mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com > > >>Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 11:27 AM >>Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances >> >> >>I think you and your engine will be a lot happier >>if you adjust the valves on a cold engine. Even a >>warm engine will give you false (i.e. too tight) >>readings. At least, that's what I've been told and >>follow on my car. >> >>_Peter >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: Liz Harris >>To: Peter Roberts ; Maurice Paton ; >> >> >> >mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com > > >>Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 6:12 PM >>Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances >> >> >>....sorry Peter,a warm engine......as for the 12 >>thou on a TD....d`know !!! >> >> >> >>Peter Roberts >> >> >>>wrote: >>> >>> >>"hot motor"?????? >> >>_Peter >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Liz Harris" >>To: "Maurice Paton" ; >>Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 7:39 PM >>Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances >> >> >> >> >>>Hi Maurice, when you say `standard`, do you >>> >>> >>mean Crane`s replacement for >> >> >>>an original profile and lift? in which case >>> >>> >>should`nt they should be set >> >> >>>at 19 thou....on a hot motor.... >>>Tweed >>>TC 2259 Cambridge, England. >>> >>>Maurice Paton wrote: >>>I have just completed a total rebuild on my >>> >>> >>TC engine during which the >> >> >>>camshaft was replace with a standard 'Crane' >>> >>> >>cam from Moss Motors. Does >> >> >>>anyone have any information regarding >>> >>> >>recommended rocker clearances >> >> >>>using this cam? Currently they are set at 15 >>> >>> >>thou. >> >> >>>Maurice TC9357 >>> >>> >>>[Non-text portions of this message have been >>> >>> >>removed] >> >> >>> >>> >>>Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>--------------------------------- >>>Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to >>> >>> >>PCcalling worldwide with >> >> >>>voicemail >>> >>>[Non-text portions of this message have been >>> >>> >>removed] >> >> >>> >>> >>>Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-- > > >>Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC >>calling worldwide with voicemail >> >>[Non-text portions of this message have been >>removed] >> >> >> >> >>Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>[Non-text portions of this message have been >>removed] >> >> >> >> >>Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >>mg-tabc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > >___________________________________________________________ >How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday >snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- >Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PCcalling worldwide with voicemail > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

[Peter Roberts]

Fred, Let me share a message I sent Gene Roth yesterday: "Fascinating. I have before me two workshop manuals, one from Mercedes, and one from Jaguar. Both are explicit that valves are to be adjusted on cold engines. To quote Mercedes, " The valve clearance on all gasoline engines should be checked and, if necessary, adjusted when the engine is cold." My original TC Owner Manual is not specific on hot or cold engine adjustment. My Chilton TC Manual is clear that it should be hot. Blower is specific that it should be hot. What does Mercedes know that Chilton and Blower don't? _Peter "

----- Original Message ----- From: "fnitz" fnitz@pacbell.net> To: "'ian thomson'" i.thomson@talk21.com>; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 12:36 PM Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances >I have worked on engines since 1955 and the valve clearances were always > specified hot on the engines I worked on. After setting hot and then > checking cold, there is an equivalent setting but it is not the same valve > to valve. Engines do expand at different rates throughout. It may be less > of > an issue with four cylinders than six or eight, but I was always taught to > set valves hot. > Fred TC1353 > > -----Original Message----- > From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of > ian thomson > Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 1:08 AM > To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances > > Sorry Gene I just don't buy that. Sure all clearances > must be correct at operating temperature; and sure > things expand at different rates and amounts; but the > correct hot adjustment must be able to be expressed as > a corresponding cold setting. Unless that is you are > suggesting that everything expands and contracts to > give fixed hot clearances but variable cold > clearances. This would be against the laws of physics > surely. The factory certainly quoted hot settings but > surely one of us could set them hot and let them cool > down before remeasuring them and thus avoid the > dangers of the last measurement being less than it > should be because the darned thing has cooled down > somewhat before we get round to adjusting it. All but > the first would be wrong under these > circumstances....unless of course we run the engine > back up to temperature for every rocker. Have you > tried running the engine with the rocker cover off? > It's an interesting and messy experience as well as > being somewhat wasteful of oil. > > Ian Thomson. > > =------ > --- Rothgene Roth rothgene@msn.com> wrote: > >> Peter, >> Your engine will be a lot happier if you adjust the >> valves on a hot engine, the reason being that you >> are operating your engine at the elevated >> temperature and everything is now stabilized, >> everything in the engine expands & contracts at a >> different rate, and it is at this time that >> clearance should be to specification. Nuff said. >> Gene Roth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Peter Robertsmgtc@comcast.net> >> To: Liz Harrislizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk> ; >> Maurice Patonmaurice.paton@wam.co.nz> ; >> > mg-tabc@yahoogroups.commg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 11:27 AM >> Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances >> >> >> I think you and your engine will be a lot happier >> if you adjust the valves on a cold engine. Even a >> warm engine will give you false (i.e. too tight) >> readings. At least, that's what I've been told and >> follow on my car. >> >> _Peter >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Liz Harris >> To: Peter Roberts ; Maurice Paton ; >> > mg-tabc@yahoogroups.commg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> >> >> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 6:12 PM >> Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances >> >> >> ....sorry Peter,a warm engine......as for the 12 >> thou on a TD....d`know !!! >> >> >> >> Peter Roberts >> mgtc@comcast.netmgtc@comcast.net>> wrote: >> "hot motor"?????? >> >> _Peter >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Liz Harris" >> To: "Maurice Paton" ; >> Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 7:39 PM >> Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances >> >> >> > Hi Maurice, when you say `standard`, do you >> mean Crane`s replacement for >> > an original profile and lift? in which case >> should`nt they should be set >> > at 19 thou....on a hot motor.... >> > Tweed >> > TC 2259 Cambridge, England. >> > >> > Maurice Paton wrote: >> > I have just completed a total rebuild on my >> TC engine during which the >> > camshaft was replace with a standard 'Crane' >> cam from Moss Motors. Does >> > anyone have any information regarding >> recommended rocker clearances >> > using this cam? Currently they are set at 15 >> thou. >> > >> > Maurice TC9357 >> > >> > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been >> removed] >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > --------------------------------- >> > Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to >> PCcalling worldwide with >> > voicemail >> > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been >> removed] >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- >> Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC >> calling worldwide with voicemail >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been >> removed] >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been >> removed] >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> mg-tabc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday > snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

[Chip Old]

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:43 -0400, Peter Roberts wrote:

> "Fascinating. I have before me two workshop manuals, one from Mercedes, > and one from Jaguar. Both are explicit that valves are to be adjusted > on cold engines. To quote Mercedes, " The valve clearance on all > gasoline engines should be checked and, if necessary, adjusted when the > engine is cold." > > My original TC Owner Manual is not specific on hot or cold engine > adjustment. My Chilton TC Manual is clear that it should be hot. > Blower is specific that it should be hot. What does Mercedes know that > Chilton and Blower don't?

What Mercedes knows is that valve clearance on all Mercedes gasoline engines is to be adjusted cold. Same for Jaguar, and any other manufacturer that specifies cold adjustment. That "all gasoline engines" in the Mercedes manual doesn't mean every gasoline engine regardless of manufacturer. It means "all Mercedes gasoline engines", which is all that manual was written for. Some manufacturers specify cold adjustment, some hot. MG specified hot for the XPAG/XPEG. If you prefer to use a Mercedes manual to maintain your MG, well, it's your car. -- Chip Old 1948 M.G. TC TC6710 XPAG7430 NEMGTR #2271 Cub Hill, Maryland fold@bcpl.net

[Paroor]

Hi Peter, The old VW Golf petrol engine they recommend to set the valves at 35 C or above. That means the cylinder head had to be hand warm. Inlet valves 0,15 mm and outlet valves 0,25 mm. It is also written that after repair the valve clearance on the cold motor to set values inlet 0,10 mm and out let 0,20 mm and after 1000 kM to check the valve clearance of the warm motor. In a French Citron 1100 cc engine it also recommended to set the valve at 35 C or hand warm, inlet valve 0,20 mm and out let valve 0,40 mm. It is also recommended to use other values if the clearances are set on hot engine. The valve clearances will become less after running, because the vales are constantly hitting the valve seats. In this case there will be less noise or no noise. Here we say that the valve making noise is healthy. In Diesel engine it is important that the valve clearance is set on the cold engine. Because the cold start in old diesel is more important. With modern engines we can save the time to set the valve. May be total sum of engines made by VW and Mercedes are more than the total sum of engines made by MG or Jaguar. Hence they may have more experience. The BMW uses Aluminium blocks. So the things may be different. May be I am wrong. Those who give more importance for a better cold start set the valve at cold engine. Those who want a better performance set the valve when engine hot. Madhu TC 0448 -----Urspr ngliche Nachricht----- Von: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com]Im Auftrag von Peter Roberts Gesendet: Mittwoch, 29. Juni 2005 21:44 An: 'ian thomson'; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com; fnitz Betreff: Re: [mg-tabc] Valve rocker clearances Fred, Let me share a message I sent Gene Roth yesterday: "Fascinating. I have before me two workshop manuals, one from Mercedes, and one from Jaguar. Both are explicit that valves are to be adjusted on cold engines. To quote Mercedes, " The valve clearance on all gasoline engines should be checked and, if necessary, adjusted when the engine is cold." My original TC Owner Manual is not specific on hot or cold engine adjustment. My Chilton TC Manual is clear that it should be hot. Blower is specific that it should be hot. What does Mercedes know that Chilton and Blower don't? _Peter