Nuts!

[MERLIN GARAGES]

Its all to do with acceleration and braking. Cannot remember which tightens the nuts all I remember that the Works Healeys I read somewhere had the knockons wired because under heavy braking or acceleration they were working loose. I cannot work out which tightens them perhaps someone else can. My brain hurts having just drilled a jig with l/h holes for the r/h side don't ask! David MG TA 0455

[John James]

Having seen my name "in lights" I'd better comment. Yes, I do the repro knock-ons at 11 each (which is probably the cheapest around, because I am not in it for the money, only to help fellow enthusiasts). That said, the damn things are heavy, so not worth sending "across the pond" due to postage costs. JOHN JAMES (TC0750) -----Original Message----- From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ian thomson Sent: 20 April 2005 09:26 To: 1939mgtb; TABC Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Nuts! Ray, If you really want something which is resistant to copper hammers I'm afraid the only real answer is to find good condition old steel ones and have them redone. Good chrome is a must and if you get your own done you can choose the chromer. Even battered ones can be reclaimed if they are not too far gone. The big advantage of this method is that it will answer your fitting question as well - the down side is that you have to find them! If you want new (bronze) ones I am sure that John James will chime in. Whichever way you go the answer is not to overhit (overtighten) them as they are self tightening anyway; though there is always somebody with a tale of doom if you don't hammer them to death. Ian Thomson. --- 1939mgtb 1939mgtb@comcast.net> wrote:

> > Hi guys, > I have seen where some of the repro knock-ons don't > fit and bottom before > retaining the wheel. Since my own spinners are > somewhat hammered, the > question of the day is: > Who makes or sells the best replacement knock-ons > for the TA-B-C?? > I want something that fits properly, looks right, > and is resistant to copper > hammers! > Best regards, > Ray

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[Keith N Black]

if one feels ill at ease with their knock-offs coming loose..........one of cleanest looks was a racing team who drilled a hole in one of the ears and wire twist tied it to the spokes. Course we are speaking of MG's here and THEY never get driven fast are hard.................say WHAT! John James jj@octagon.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote: Having seen my name "in lights" I'd better comment. Yes, I do the repro knock-ons at 11 each (which is probably the cheapest around, because I am not in it for the money, only to help fellow enthusiasts). That said, the damn things are heavy, so not worth sending "across the pond" due to postage costs. JOHN JAMES (TC0750) -----Original Message----- From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ian thomson Sent: 20 April 2005 09:26 To: 1939mgtb; TABC Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Nuts! Ray, If you really want something which is resistant to copper hammers I'm afraid the only real answer is to find good condition old steel ones and have them redone. Good chrome is a must and if you get your own done you can choose the chromer. Even battered ones can be reclaimed if they are not too far gone. The big advantage of this method is that it will answer your fitting question as well - the down side is that you have to find them! If you want new (bronze) ones I am sure that John James will chime in. Whichever way you go the answer is not to overhit (overtighten) them as they are self tightening anyway; though there is always somebody with a tale of doom if you don't hammer them to death. Ian Thomson. --- 1939mgtb 1939mgtb@comcast.net> wrote:

> > Hi guys, > I have seen where some of the repro knock-ons don't > fit and bottom before > retaining the wheel. Since my own spinners are > somewhat hammered, the > question of the day is: > Who makes or sells the best replacement knock-ons > for the TA-B-C?? > I want something that fits properly, looks right, > and is resistant to copper > hammers! > Best regards, > Ray

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[Liz Harris]

This `self tightening` is a myth...the only thing that has any effect on the tightening or loosening of a spinner is it`s own inertia cos the wheel is splined on to the hub...without the splines, braking would have a tendancy to tighten the nut. While it is nice to have super new unmarked spinners it`s best not to forget the reason they`re there in the first place....to hold the b-----y wheel on.........I think I`d rather have a few marks on them than perhaps loose a wheel or ruin a hub/stub axle. Fred`s got it right..a nylon faced `deadblow` is the dogs..... Tweed TC 2259. MERLIN GARAGES ddarrell@btconnect.com> wrote: Its all to do with acceleration and braking. Yahoo! Groups Links Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jeff Redman]

G'day Keith, I can't help but shake my head in amazement.... it's obvious that there is more consideration given to the LOOKS of the pretty bits than to the real damage being done to the wheel/hub splines flogging themselves to an early death. Self tightening...? A bit like believing in the tooth fairy. I recall the advice of an old mechanic when re-fitting centre-lock wheels... "Belt 'em till your nuts ring"... Chrome is cheaper than renewing wheels and hubs. Reddo. -----Original Message----- From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith N Black Sent: Thursday, 21 April 2005 8:36 AM To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Nuts! if one feels ill at ease with their knock-offs coming loose..........one of cleanest looks was a racing team who drilled a hole in one of the ears and wire twist tied it to the spokes. Course we are speaking of MG's here and THEY never get driven fast are hard.................say WHAT! John James jj@octagon.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote: Having seen my name "in lights" I'd better comment. Yes, I do the repro knock-ons at 11 each (which is probably the cheapest around, because I am not in it for the money, only to help fellow enthusiasts). That said, the damn things are heavy, so not worth sending "across the pond" due to postage costs. JOHN JAMES (TC0750) -----Original Message----- From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ian thomson Sent: 20 April 2005 09:26 To: 1939mgtb; TABC Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Nuts! Ray, If you really want something which is resistant to copper hammers I'm afraid the only real answer is to find good condition old steel ones and have them redone. Good chrome is a must and if you get your own done you can choose the chromer. Even battered ones can be reclaimed if they are not too far gone. The big advantage of this method is that it will answer your fitting question as well - the down side is that you have to find them! If you want new (bronze) ones I am sure that John James will chime in. Whichever way you go the answer is not to overhit (overtighten) them as they are self tightening anyway; though there is always somebody with a tale of doom if you don't hammer them to death. Ian Thomson. --- 1939mgtb 1939mgtb@comcast.net> wrote:

> > Hi guys, > I have seen where some of the repro knock-ons don't > fit and bottom before > retaining the wheel. Since my own spinners are > somewhat hammered, the > question of the day is: > Who makes or sells the best replacement knock-ons > for the TA-B-C?? > I want something that fits properly, looks right, > and is resistant to copper > hammers! > Best regards, > Ray

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[David Lodge]

Hello Fred, Alas no! But then the wife's Porsche 914 beckoned and I went into the old sideways shuffle. I daresay that someone out there makes the correct ones. Thing is, once you know the difference, it's hard to put up with second best , like radiator badges for instance! All the best, D ----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE ----- From: "fnitz" fnitz@pacbell.net> To: "'David Lodge'" archie_ponsonby@post.cz>,1939mgtb@comcast.net,mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Nuts! Date: 20.4.2005 - 7:47:27

> Well then, were you able to find satisfactory ones? I'm > not in need but it > would help others that might be looking. But I also > don't think that "copper > hammer proof" is the best criteria as there are a lot > of better hammers out > there for knock-offs (dead-blow being my preference). > Fred TC1353 > > -----Original Message----- > From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > David Lodge > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:29 PM > To: 1939mgtb@comcast.net; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Nuts! > > > And I should add that none of the suppliers was Bob > Grunau or > Roger F. > > Regards to all, David Lodge > > > ----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE ----- > From: "David Lodge" archie_ponsonby@post.cz> > To: 1939mgtb@comcast.net,mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Nuts! > Date: 20.4.2005 - 7:18:45 > > > > > Hello Ray, > > > > Watch out for the MG logo oin the knock-offs. I had > > to > > go > > a-hunting after a local chrome plating shop buffed > > the > > living > > you-know-what of mine. Many are out there but the > > ones I got (I > > finally clued in and got only one from four > > suppliers) > > and not one > > of them was right. > > > > All the best, David (yes-I'll-admit-it. > > I'm-extremely-picky) > > Lodge > > > > > > ----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE ----- > > From: "1939mgtb" 1939mgtb@comcast.net> > > To: "TABC" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [mg-tabc] Nuts! > > Date: 19.4.2005 - 16:48:20 > > > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > I have seen where some of the repro knock-ons don't > > > fit > > > and bottom before > > > retaining the wheel. Since my own spinners are > > > somewhat hammered, the > > > question of the day is: > > > Who makes or sells the best replacement knock-ons > > > for > > > the TA-B-C?? > > > I want something that fits properly, looks right, > > > and > > > is resistant to copper > > > hammers! > > > Best regards, > > > Ray > > > "There are no easy answers in this case m'lud." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Zkous ejte vysokorychlostn nonstop internet VOLNY > > ADSL > > 14 dn > > ZDARMA! Jiz d le nev hejte! Prvn ch 500 z kazn ku? > > nav c > > z sk > > tric ko. > > V ce informac na > > http://adsl.volny.cz/adsl-na-zkousku/ > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Levne js internet v pracovn dny jiz od 18:00 hod. > Surfujte s VOLNY ! > http://mimospicku.volny.cz > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >

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[David Lodge]

Oh, and I agree completely with your copper hammer comments. I used to keep the extremely dubious company of English Midlands metalsmiths, tool and diemakers and other such undesirables and they taught me much about: yes that's right, metallurgy! From them I learnt to put the copper hammer in a glass case as it would work-harden and destroy everything it came in contact with. All the best, D ----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE ----- From: "fnitz" fnitz@pacbell.net> To: "'David Lodge'" archie_ponsonby@post.cz>,1939mgtb@comcast.net,mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Nuts! Date: 20.4.2005 - 7:47:27

> Well then, were you able to find satisfactory ones? I'm > not in need but it > would help others that might be looking. But I also > don't think that "copper > hammer proof" is the best criteria as there are a lot > of better hammers out > there for knock-offs (dead-blow being my preference). > Fred TC1353 > > -----Original Message----- > From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > David Lodge > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:29 PM > To: 1939mgtb@comcast.net; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Nuts! > > > And I should add that none of the suppliers was Bob > Grunau or > Roger F. > > Regards to all, David Lodge > > > ----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE ----- > From: "David Lodge" archie_ponsonby@post.cz> > To: 1939mgtb@comcast.net,mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Nuts! > Date: 20.4.2005 - 7:18:45 > > > > > Hello Ray, > > > > Watch out for the MG logo oin the knock-offs. I had > > to > > go > > a-hunting after a local chrome plating shop buffed > > the > > living > > you-know-what of mine. Many are out there but the > > ones I got (I > > finally clued in and got only one from four > > suppliers) > > and not one > > of them was right. > > > > All the best, David (yes-I'll-admit-it. > > I'm-extremely-picky) > > Lodge > > > > > > ----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE ----- > > From: "1939mgtb" 1939mgtb@comcast.net> > > To: "TABC" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [mg-tabc] Nuts! > > Date: 19.4.2005 - 16:48:20 > > > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > I have seen where some of the repro knock-ons don't > > > fit > > > and bottom before > > > retaining the wheel. Since my own spinners are > > > somewhat hammered, the > > > question of the day is: > > > Who makes or sells the best replacement knock-ons > > > for > > > the TA-B-C?? > > > I want something that fits properly, looks right, > > > and > > > is resistant to copper > > > hammers! > > > Best regards, > > > Ray > > > "There are no easy answers in this case m'lud." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Zkous ejte vysokorychlostn nonstop internet VOLNY > > ADSL > > 14 dn > > ZDARMA! Jiz d le nev hejte! Prvn ch 500 z kazn ku? > > nav c > > z sk > > tric ko. > > V ce informac na > > http://adsl.volny.cz/adsl-na-zkousku/ > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Levne js internet v pracovn dny jiz od 18:00 hod. > Surfujte s VOLNY ! > http://mimospicku.volny.cz > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >

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[MERLIN GARAGES]

If this is a myth why do we have Roger's left hand and right hand nuts on the end of the axle to keep the hubs on. Why even today vehicles have l/h and r/h nuts for holding any rotating components together such as hubs? If your splines are so good as to give not movement relative to the wheel and hub how do you get your wheels off? Also if you notice there is a different profile on the knockons a shallow for on and a more 90 degree for off I always thought that this was to give more power to knock them off due to the fact they had tightened more in use. I think it is hard on the gas easy on the brakes and that will give you tight nuts but I am not sure. Over to the tech boys. -----Original Message----- From: Liz Harris [mailto:lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: 21 April 2005 00:07 To: MERLIN GARAGES; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Nuts! This `self tightening` is a myth...the only thing that has any effect on the tightening or loosening of a spinner is it`s own inertia cos the wheel is splined on to the hub...without the splines, braking would have a tendancy to tighten the nut. While it is nice to have super new unmarked spinners it`s best not to forget the reason they`re there in the first place....to hold the b-----y wheel on.........I think I`d rather have a few marks on them than perhaps loose a wheel or ruin a hub/stub axle. Fred`s got it right..a nylon faced `deadblow` is the dogs..... Tweed TC 2259. MERLIN GARAGES ddarrell@btconnect.com> wrote: Its all to do with acceleration and braking. Yahoo! Groups Links Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Liz Harris]

....having left and right hand threads on clockwise and anti-clockwise rotating spindles is just good engineering practice, I`m not saying it`s a waste of time..the wheel on my surface grinder is not splined and the nut tightens in the opposite direction to the rotation, so the `braking` effect on the wheel when it comes into contact with the work, has the tendancy to `do up` the nut ....and no my splines are`nt so good as not to be able to get the wheels off.. that would be silly...but the amount of radial movement in the spline is not enough to tighten or loosen the nut....to test the theory, undo your spinners, go for a spin and see if they`ve tightened...(only joshing).......I cannot say with impunity that my theory is right, I`m only a toolmaker, but if there are any qualified Mechanical Engineers on the list it would be interesting to hear their thoughts.. and that m`lud is the case for me defence.....Tweed TC 2259 MERLIN GARAGES ddarrell@btconnect.com> wrote: If this is a myth why do we have Roger's left hand and right hand nuts on the end of the axle to keep the hubs on. Why even today vehicles have l/h and r/h nuts for holding any rotating components together such as hubs? If your splines are so good as to give not movement relative to the wheel and hub how do you get your wheels off? Also if you notice there is a different profile on the knockons a shallow for on and a more 90 degree for off I always thought that this was to give more power to knock them off due to the fact they had tightened more in use. I think it is hard on the gas easy on the brakes and that will give you tight nuts but I am not sure. Over to the tech boys. -----Original Message----- From: Liz Harris [mailto:lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: 21 April 2005 00:07 To: MERLIN GARAGES; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Nuts! This `self tightening` is a myth...the only thing that has any effect on the tightening or loosening of a spinner is it`s own inertia cos the wheel is splined on to the hub...without the splines, braking would have a tendancy to tighten the nut. While it is nice to have super new unmarked spinners it`s best not to forget the reason they`re there in the first place....to hold the b-----y wheel on.........I think I`d rather have a few marks on them than perhaps loose a wheel or ruin a hub/stub axle. Fred`s got it right..a nylon faced `deadblow` is the dogs..... Tweed TC 2259. MERLIN GARAGES wrote: Its all to do with acceleration and braking. Yahoo! Groups Links Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[ian thomson]

I once read something (don't ask me where - but it was probably MG related) that said that it was the very slight rocking motion of a nearly tight enough wheel that "walked" the nut round to tighten it. Presumably the inertia mentioned earlier in this thread determines to direction of tightening. Ian Thomson. --- Liz Harris lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> > ....having left and right hand threads on clockwise > and anti-clockwise rotating spindles is just good > engineering practice, I`m not saying it`s a waste of > time..the wheel on my surface grinder is not splined > and the nut tightens in the opposite direction to > the rotation, so the `braking` effect on the wheel > when it comes into contact with the work, has the > tendancy to `do up` the nut ....and no my splines > are`nt so good as not to be able to get the wheels > off.. that would be silly...but the amount of radial > movement in the spline is not enough to tighten or > loosen the nut....to test the theory, undo your > spinners, go for a spin and see if they`ve > tightened...(only joshing).......I cannot say with > impunity that my theory is right, I`m only a > toolmaker, but if there are any qualified > Mechanical Engineers on the list it would be > interesting to hear their thoughts.. and that m`lud > is the case for me defence.....Tweed TC 2259 > > MERLIN GARAGES ddarrell@btconnect.com> wrote: > If this is a myth why do we have Roger's left hand > and right hand nuts > on the end of the axle to keep the hubs on. > > Why even today vehicles have l/h and r/h nuts for > holding any rotating > components together such as hubs? > > If your splines are so good as to give not movement > relative to the > wheel and hub how do you get your wheels off? > > Also if you notice there is a different profile on > the knockons a > shallow for on and a more 90 degree for off I always > thought that this > was to give more power to knock them off due to the > fact they had > tightened more in use. > > I think it is hard on the gas easy on the brakes and > that will give you > tight nuts but I am not sure. > > Over to the tech boys. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Liz Harris [mailto:lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk] > Sent: 21 April 2005 00:07 > To: MERLIN GARAGES; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Nuts! > > This `self tightening` is a myth...the only thing > that has any effect on > the tightening or loosening of a spinner is it`s own > inertia cos the > wheel is splined on to the hub...without the > splines, braking would have > a tendancy to tighten the nut. While it is nice to > have super new > unmarked spinners it`s best not to forget the reason > they`re there in > the first place....to hold the b-----y wheel > on.........I think I`d > rather have a few marks on them than perhaps loose a > wheel or ruin a > hub/stub axle. Fred`s got it right..a nylon faced > `deadblow` is the > dogs..... > Tweed TC 2259. > > MERLIN GARAGES > wrote: > > > Its all to do with acceleration and braking. > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > mg-tabc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > >

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