Questions handbrake/front-axle

[banjomey2@aol.com]

Hi chaps, two questions occured while re-assembling TC 9027: 1. Handbrake After re-assembling the Handbrake I found a spring (about 14cm/4" long, a kind of tight rebound-spring), resting peacefully in a small plastic-bag labelled "Handbrake-spring". I am not quite sure where this spring bolts on. I cannot find it on the many photos I took while dismantling the car nor can I find it on the exploded views. Any ideas??? 2. Front axle While dismantling the car I realized that the lettering on the front axle pointed towards the front of the car and the thicker end of the caster shim was installed to the front also. Mike Sherrell's book says the exact opposite, lettering and thick end of the caster shim to the rear of car. I guess Mike Sherrell is right, but I have no idea why the former owner of TC 9027 did this, or did he just made a mistake. Any ideas. Thanks for your help. Peter "Banjo" Meyer TC 9027, 1949 Morgan +4, 1965 TR 3A, 1959 Rilye TT Sprite Special, 1935 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Donald Wilkinson]

Banjo wrote:

>2. While dismantling the car I realized that the lettering on the front >axle pointed towards the front of the car and the thicker end of the caster >shim was installed to the front also. Mike Sherrell's book says the exact >opposite, lettering and thick end of the caster shim to the rear of car. I >guess Mike Sherrell is right, but I have no idea why the former owner of >TC 9027 did this, or did he just made a mistake. Any ideas.

Whoa! Wouldn't this result in REVERSE caster? digitaldon can't visualize how this would affect required steering effort, but how could this car stay on the road with this steering geometry? Don TC 7993

[Christopher Howard]

Peter Could your extra spring be the spring which fits under the handbrake release button - which provides the highly effective fly-off action. regards Chris TC/9164

----- Original Message ----- From: banjomey2@aol.com> To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: 12 February 2005 16:15 Subject: [mg-tabc] Questions handbrake/front-axle > > Hi chaps, > two questions occured while re-assembling TC 9027: > > 1. Handbrake > After re-assembling the Handbrake I found a spring (about 14cm/4" long, a > kind of tight rebound-spring), resting peacefully in a small plastic-bag labelled > "Handbrake-spring". I am not quite sure where this spring bolts on. I cannot > find it on the many photos I took while dismantling the car nor can I find it > on the exploded views. Any ideas??? > > 2. Front axle > While dismantling the car I realized that the lettering on the front axle > pointed towards the front of the car and the thicker end of the caster shim was > installed to the front also. Mike Sherrell's book says the exact opposite, > lettering and thick end of the caster shim to the rear of car. I guess Mike > Sherrell is right, but I have no idea why the former owner of TC 9027 did this, or > did he just made a mistake. Any ideas. > > Thanks for your help. > Peter "Banjo" Meyer > TC 9027, 1949 > Morgan +4, 1965 > TR 3A, 1959 > Rilye TT Sprite Special, 1935 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 10/02/05 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 10/02/05

[1939mgtb]

Positive caster makes the car "turn in" to the turn more easily, since the geometry is unstable. Negative caster makes the steering wheel more difficult to turn while moving because the tires (tyres) want to seek the stable straight ahead position. Makes for some pretty funny steering wheel fugoid oscillations if you release the wheel while the wheels are turned! Best, Ray "My brain hurts!" "It will have to come out."

----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Wilkinson" digitaldon@hotmail.com> To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 11:47 AM Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Questions handbrake/front-axle > > Banjo wrote: >>2. While dismantling the car I realized that the lettering on the front >>axle pointed towards the front of the car and the thicker end of the >>caster >>shim was installed to the front also. Mike Sherrell's book says the exact >>opposite, lettering and thick end of the caster shim to the rear of car. I >>guess Mike Sherrell is right, but I have no idea why the former owner of >>TC 9027 did this, or did he just made a mistake. Any ideas. > Whoa! Wouldn't this result in REVERSE caster? digitaldon can't > visualize how this would affect required steering effort, but how could > this > car stay on the road with this steering geometry? > > Don > TC 7993 > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

[Bob Grunau]

Peter, 1-The tension spring is quite likely the handbrake return spring which attaches to a levered bracket on the handbrake cross shaft and fastens to the chassis forward of the handle. It simply pulls the lever forward when the brake is released. 2-The axle should be installed with the kingpins leaning backwards by 3 degrees when the axle beam is resting on a flat level surface. On a TC this should put the lettering to the rear of the axle beam. But check it. Your caster shims were installed backwards to compensate for the incorrect axle installation. two wrongs almost make a right! The DPO made two mistakes on the axle. I would not install the caster shims as they are really not much use and the car will steer a bit straighter with them out. Bob Grunau Hi chaps, two questions occured while re-assembling TC 9027: 1. Handbrake After re-assembling the Handbrake I found a spring (about 14cm/4" long, a kind of tight rebound-spring), resting peacefully in a small plastic-bag labelled "Handbrake-spring". I am not quite sure where this spring bolts on. I cannot find it on the many photos I took while dismantling the car nor can I find it on the exploded views. Any ideas??? 2. Front axle While dismantling the car I realized that the lettering on the front axle pointed towards the front of the car and the thicker end of the caster shim was installed to the front also. Mike Sherrell's book says the exact opposite, lettering and thick end of the caster shim to the rear of car. I guess Mike Sherrell is right, but I have no idea why the former owner of TC 9027 did this, or did he just made a mistake. Any ideas. Thanks for your help. Peter "Banjo" Meyer TC 9027, 1949 Morgan +4, 1965 TR 3A, 1959 Rilye TT Sprite Special, 1935 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links

[Maurice Paton]

Peter, Just because the lettering on your front axle is facing to the front doesn't mean it is back to front. It may be a TA axle. You need to measure the kingpin caster angle with the axle set up on a flat surface. It should be 3 degrees or thereabouts, ie when viewed from the side the top of the kingpin should be leaning towards the rear. When the axle is mounted on the spring a further 5 degrees is added to give a total of approx 8 degrees of caster. The tapered shims were added to reduce this caster by about 2.5 degrees to 5.5 degrees to reduce steering effort at low speeds at the expense of high speed stability. Today most TC owners are prepared to put up with the heavy steering at low speeds for the added stability at high speeds and so remove the shims to restore the caster to 8 degrees. If your axle is indeed back to front and with the shims back to front you would finish up with about 4.5 degrees of caster. I think you would find this would give very light steering with very little self centering action. The shims may have been added to increase the caster angle beyond 8 degrees to further improve the self centering action and high speed stability at the expense of even heavier steering at low speeds. The only way to tell is to measure the axle carefully before reassembly. Regards, Maurice, TC9357 -----Original Message----- From: banjomey2@aol.com [mailto:banjomey2@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, 13 February 2005 5:16 a.m. To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Subject: [mg-tabc] Questions handbrake/front-axle Hi chaps, two questions occured while re-assembling TC 9027: 1. Handbrake After re-assembling the Handbrake I found a spring (about 14cm/4" long, a kind of tight rebound-spring), resting peacefully in a small plastic-bag labelled "Handbrake-spring". I am not quite sure where this spring bolts on. I cannot find it on the many photos I took while dismantling the car nor can I find it on the exploded views. Any ideas??? 2. Front axle While dismantling the car I realized that the lettering on the front axle pointed towards the front of the car and the thicker end of the caster shim was installed to the front also. Mike Sherrell's book says the exact opposite, lettering and thick end of the caster shim to the rear of car. I guess Mike Sherrell is right, but I have no idea why the former owner of TC 9027 did this, or did he just made a mistake. Any ideas. Thanks for your help. Peter "Banjo" Meyer TC 9027, 1949 Morgan +4, 1965 TR 3A, 1959 Rilye TT Sprite Special, 1935 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links

[Terry Sanders]

TA axles had no lettering and the only way to tell front to back on them is to set them up on a flat surface and measure the king pin angle. Not sure about TB's. Terry in Oakland Maurice Paton maurice.paton@wam.co.nz> wrote: Peter, Just because the lettering on your front axle is facing to the front doesn't mean it is back to front. It may be a TA axle. You need to measure the kingpin caster angle with the axle set up on a flat surface. It should be 3 degrees or thereabouts, ie when viewed from the side the top of the kingpin should be leaning towards the rear. When the axle is mounted on the spring a further 5 degrees is added to give a total of approx 8 degrees of caster. The tapered shims were added to reduce this caster by about 2.5 degrees to 5.5 degrees to reduce steering effort at low speeds at the expense of high speed stability. Today most TC owners are prepared to put up with the heavy steering at low speeds for the added stability at high speeds and so remove the shims to restore the caster to 8 degrees. If your axle is indeed back to front and with the shims back to front you would finish up with about 4.5 degrees of caster. I think you would find this would give very light steering with very little self centering action. The shims may have been added to increase the caster angle beyond 8 degrees to further improve the self centering action and high speed stability at the expense of even heavier steering at low speeds. The only way to tell is to measure the axle carefully before reassembly. Regards, Maurice, TC9357 -----Original Message----- From: banjomey2@aol.com [mailto:banjomey2@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, 13 February 2005 5:16 a.m. To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Subject: [mg-tabc] Questions handbrake/front-axle Hi chaps, two questions occured while re-assembling TC 9027: 1. Handbrake After re-assembling the Handbrake I found a spring (about 14cm/4" long, a kind of tight rebound-spring), resting peacefully in a small plastic-bag labelled "Handbrake-spring". I am not quite sure where this spring bolts on. I cannot find it on the many photos I took while dismantling the car nor can I find it on the exploded views. Any ideas??? 2. Front axle While dismantling the car I realized that the lettering on the front axle pointed towards the front of the car and the thicker end of the caster shim was installed to the front also. Mike Sherrell's book says the exact opposite, lettering and thick end of the caster shim to the rear of car. I guess Mike Sherrell is right, but I have no idea why the former owner of TC 9027 did this, or did he just made a mistake. Any ideas. Thanks for your help. Peter "Banjo" Meyer TC 9027, 1949 Morgan +4, 1965 TR 3A, 1959 Rilye TT Sprite Special, 1935 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[fnitz]

In any event, it is best to remove it from the car and check the angles anyway to make sure there is nothing funny about it. My axle was set correctly but the tapered shims were backwards. I removed them and I like the feel of the steering. I have a BC box with needle bearings on the sector shaft and a Tompkins kit. Fred TC1353 -----Original Message----- From: Terry Sanders [mailto:taterry@pacbell.net] Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 12:48 PM To: Maurice Paton; banjomey2@aol.com Cc: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Questions handbrake/front-axle TA axles had no lettering and the only way to tell front to back on them is to set them up on a flat surface and measure the king pin angle. Not sure about TB's. Terry in Oakland Maurice Paton maurice.paton@wam.co.nz> wrote: Peter, Just because the lettering on your front axle is facing to the front doesn't mean it is back to front. It may be a TA axle. You need to measure the kingpin caster angle with the axle set up on a flat surface. It should be 3 degrees or thereabouts, ie when viewed from the side the top of the kingpin should be leaning towards the rear. When the axle is mounted on the spring a further 5 degrees is added to give a total of approx 8 degrees of caster. The tapered shims were added to reduce this caster by about 2.5 degrees to 5.5 degrees to reduce steering effort at low speeds at the expense of high speed stability. Today most TC owners are prepared to put up with the heavy steering at low speeds for the added stability at high speeds and so remove the shims to restore the caster to 8 degrees. If your axle is indeed back to front and with the shims back to front you would finish up with about 4.5 degrees of caster. I think you would find this would give very light steering with very little self centering action. The shims may have been added to increase the caster angle beyond 8 degrees to further improve the self centering action and high speed stability at the expense of even heavier steering at low speeds. The only way to tell is to measure the axle carefully before reassembly. Regards, Maurice, TC9357 -----Original Message----- From: banjomey2@aol.com [mailto:banjomey2@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, 13 February 2005 5:16 a.m. To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Subject: [mg-tabc] Questions handbrake/front-axle Hi chaps, two questions occured while re-assembling TC 9027: 1. Handbrake After re-assembling the Handbrake I found a spring (about 14cm/4" long, a kind of tight rebound-spring), resting peacefully in a small plastic-bag labelled "Handbrake-spring". I am not quite sure where this spring bolts on. I cannot find it on the many photos I took while dismantling the car nor can I find it on the exploded views. Any ideas??? 2. Front axle While dismantling the car I realized that the lettering on the front axle pointed towards the front of the car and the thicker end of the caster shim was installed to the front also. Mike Sherrell's book says the exact opposite, lettering and thick end of the caster shim to the rear of car. I guess Mike Sherrell is right, but I have no idea why the former owner of TC 9027 did this, or did he just made a mistake. Any ideas. Thanks for your help. Peter "Banjo" Meyer TC 9027, 1949 Morgan +4, 1965 TR 3A, 1959 Rilye TT Sprite Special, 1935 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links

[1939mgtb]

TB's have a number on the axle, but I have forgotten which way it goes....maybe tomorrow I will take a peek. Best,Ray "My brain hurts!" "It will have to come out."

----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Sanders" taterry@pacbell.net> To: "Maurice Paton" maurice.paton@wam.co.nz>; banjomey2@aol.com> Cc: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 2:47 PM Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Questions handbrake/front-axle > > TA axles had no lettering and the only way to tell front to back on them > is to set them up on a flat surface and measure the king pin angle. Not > sure about TB's. > Terry in Oakland > > Maurice Paton maurice.paton@wam.co.nz> wrote: > > Peter, > Just because the lettering on your front axle is facing to the front > doesn't mean it is back to front. It may be a TA axle. You need to > measure the kingpin caster angle with the axle set up on a flat surface. > It should be 3 degrees or thereabouts, ie when viewed from the side the > top of the kingpin should be leaning towards the rear. When the axle is > mounted on the spring a further 5 degrees is added to give a total of > approx 8 degrees of caster. The tapered shims were added to reduce this > caster by about 2.5 degrees to 5.5 degrees to reduce steering effort at > low speeds at the expense of high speed stability. Today most TC owners > are prepared to put up with the heavy steering at low speeds for the > added stability at high speeds and so remove the shims to restore the > caster to 8 degrees. If your axle is indeed back to front and with the > shims back to front you would finish up with about 4.5 degrees of > caster. I think you would find this would give very light steering with > very little self centering action. The shims may have been added to > increase the caster angle beyond 8 degrees to further improve the self > centering action and high speed stability at the expense of even heavier > steering at low speeds. The only way to tell is to measure the axle > carefully before reassembly. > Regards, > Maurice, > TC9357 > > -----Original Message----- > From: banjomey2@aol.com [mailto:banjomey2@aol.com] > Sent: Sunday, 13 February 2005 5:16 a.m. > To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [mg-tabc] Questions handbrake/front-axle > > > Hi chaps, > two questions occured while re-assembling TC 9027: > > 1. Handbrake > After re-assembling the Handbrake I found a spring (about 14cm/4" long, > a > kind of tight rebound-spring), resting peacefully in a small plastic-bag > labelled > "Handbrake-spring". I am not quite sure where this spring bolts on. I > cannot > find it on the many photos I took while dismantling the car nor can I > find it > on the exploded views. Any ideas??? > > 2. Front axle > While dismantling the car I realized that the lettering on the front > axle > pointed towards the front of the car and the thicker end of the caster > shim was > installed to the front also. Mike Sherrell's book says the exact > opposite, > lettering and thick end of the caster shim to the rear of car. I guess > Mike > Sherrell is right, but I have no idea why the former owner of TC 9027 > did this, or > did he just made a mistake. Any ideas. > > Thanks for your help. > Peter "Banjo" Meyer > TC 9027, 1949 > Morgan +4, 1965 > TR 3A, 1959 > Rilye TT Sprite Special, 1935 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

[joecurto@aol.com]

Don't forget gents I make a very nice handbrake handle chrome cover kit. See me off line if needed. Joe Curto [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]