rear edge of bonnet sides

[Rick]

Wasn't Testacles a twin?

On September 7, 2018 at 4:25 PM "phil smith mgpsmith@att.net [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:     A connection to classic Greek culture does seem a likely possibility   To drive a TC, and especially in today's world,  requires the assistance of the God of Bravery, Testacles.  And, while it wasn't offered on the TC per se, TAs and TBs could be obtained in that unique color, Phartedon Brown.   (Sorry if any of you are Disciples of the Wholy Church of the PC and therefore offended.) (No, I'm not really sorry....this is a TC crowd.   Bawdy humor should be allowed if not required.)      From: "diecuts@aol.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]To:[/b] grunau.garage@sympatico.ca; kallend@iit.edu; roger.46tc@gmail.com [b]Cc:[/b] tc8126@earthlink.net; mg-tabc@yahoogroups..com [b]Sent:[/b] Friday, September 7, 2018 2:15 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] rear edge of bonnet sides  All,   From what I recall of Tom's presentation on the trimming, it was the front of the bonnet side panels that were trimmed to match the radiator shell, not the rear that has the slight curve, which I believe is correct.      Perhaps they are emulating the Greek Parthenon, which has pillars with a slight curve, fatter in the middle, so they appear straight when viewed. Lee Jacobsen , Dearborn, MI  TA2969 Tickford, TC 0780 -----Original Message----- From: 'Bob Grunau' grunau.garage@sympatico.ca [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To: 'John Kallend' kallend@iit.edu>; 'Roger Furneaux' roger.46tc@gmail.com> Cc: 'Mark M' tc8126@earthlink.net>; 'MG-TABC List' mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Sep 7, 2018 11:29 am Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] rear edge of bonnet sides Arc be because front ¾” thick wood piece may have been bent back slightly in the middle when the body metal was turned over?? Then bonnet made to suit?  I would not trim anything till final fit.Bob, Canada[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com?] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]John Kallend kallend@iit.edu [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] Friday, September 07, 2018 9:58 AM [b]To:[/b] Roger Furneaux [b]Cc:[/b] Mark M; MG-TABC List [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] rear edge of bonnet sides  Maybe unrelated, but my (original) bonnet sides are slightly different in length.  Suggests some hand trimming. _____________________________John KallendProfessor EmeritusDepartment of Mechanical, Materials and Aerospace EngineeringDepartment of PhysicsIIT, Chicago On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 6:02 AM, Roger Furneaux roger.46tc@gmail.com [mg-tabc] < mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: hi Mark - Tom Wilsom would know for sure, but the story is that bonnets were supplied a bit too long, and the guys on the assembly line used big tinsnips to trim them (they must have had a powerful grip!) and as two guys worked on the cars as they wernt down the line, L & R would be slightly different. Could be an old wives' tale, but.... Rgds Roger  On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 11:03 PM 'Mark M' tc8126@earthlink.net [mg-tabc] < mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:[quote] Fellows- After the longest tub rebuild on record, I am finally beginning to mock-up a 'car' around the tub. I have noticed that the rear edge of the bonnet side panels are not dead straight, but rather both sides have a very subtle arc to them, with the middle rear of the bonnet sides being the peak of the arc. Comments welcome before I even think about grinding the edges dead straight, as I think there might be a reason for this subtle curve, as both bonnet sides have it (altho the left side is slightly more arced that the right), maybe more obvious once I start aligning the bonnet, checking front tub height, etc... Thanks-Mark TC8126Ohio

           [/quote]    

[CHARLES HUGHES]

Perhaps by the time of T-series production they were trimming the front, rather than the rear.  However MMM bonnets were often trimmed at the rear to mate to the body. My L1 Magna Salonette was most definitely trimmed at the rear.  The Salonette body on my L1 was a bit asymmetrical, horter on the passenger side than the driver side due to the doors being of unequal length - the cowl line as viewed from above was NOT perpendicular to the center line of the chassis!, So the bonnet panels were trimmed to mate to the slightly catty-wompous cowl.  This became very obvious when the bonnet was opened:  When the driver side was opened and laid over on the passenger side buttons one could see that the driver side panels were about two inches shorter at their outer edges, while when the passenger side panels were opened and laid over on the driver side buttons almost two inches of the rear of the top and side panels actually rested over the cowl! - Mike Hughes  - -  '37 TA 0512 On Friday, September 7, 2018 2:15 PM, "diecuts@aol.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   All,   From what I recall of Tom's presentation on the trimming, it was the front of the bonnet side panels that were trimmed to match the radiator shell, not the rear that has the slight curve, which I believe is correct.      Perhaps they are emulating the Greek Parthenon, which has pillars with a slight curve, fatter in the middle, so they appear straight when viewed. Lee Jacobsen , Dearborn, MI  TA2969 Tickford, TC 0780 -----Original Message----- From: 'Bob Grunau' grunau.garage@sympatico.ca [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To: 'John Kallend' kallend@iit.edu>; 'Roger Furneaux' roger.46tc@gmail.com> Cc: 'Mark M' tc8126@earthlink.net>; 'MG-TABC List' mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Sep 7, 2018 11:29 am Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] rear edge of bonnet sides Arc be because front thick wood piece may have been bent back slightly in the middle when the body metal was turned over?? Then bonnet made to suit?  I would not trim anything till final fit. Bob, Canada [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com?] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]John Kallend kallend@iit.edu [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] Friday, September 07, 2018 9:58 AM [b]To:[/b] Roger Furneaux [b]Cc:[/b] Mark M; MG-TABC List [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] rear edge of bonnet sides     Maybe unrelated, but my (original) bonnet sides are slightly different in length.  Suggests some hand trimming. _____________________________ John Kallend Professor Emeritus Department of Mechanical, Materials and Aerospace Engineering Department of Physics IIT, Chicago  

On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 6:02 AM, Roger Furneaux roger.46tc@gmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   hi Mark - Tom Wilsom would know for sure, but the story is that bonnets were supplied a bit too long, and the guys on the assembly line used big tinsnips to trim them (they must have had a powerful grip!) and as two guys worked on the cars as they wernt down the line, L & R would be slightly different. Could be an old wives' tale, but....   Rgds   Roger    On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 11:03 PM 'Mark M' tc8126@earthlink.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   Fellows-   After the longest tub rebuild on record, I am finally beginning to mock-up a 'car' around the tub.   I have noticed that the rear edge of the bonnet side panels are not dead straight, but rather both sides have a very subtle arc to them, with the middle rear of the bonnet sides being the peak of the arc.   Comments welcome before I even think about grinding the edges dead straight, as I think there might be a reason for this subtle curve, as both bonnet sides have it (altho the left side is slightly more arced that the right), maybe more obvious once I start aligning the bonnet, checking front tub height, etc...   Thanks- Mark TC8126 Ohio

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[Doug Pelton]

Greeting to all,

 

I have a different view on how to fit the bonnet. It is not absolute to be curved or cut to form a straight line.

 

I have built tubs, fitted all…doors, scuttles, wings, bonnets, hoods, etc. The primary goal is to have all the lines compliment each other and look correct. Reference the bonnet: I have had to trim the bonnet panels, I have also had to add sheet metal to make it look right. Sometimes you have to take wood off or add to the front top rail (forward most top piece of wood to front of tub, bulkhead bolts to). In 2015 Mike Sherrell visited me when I had just finished a car and he questioned me on how I was able to get the bonnet fit so perfect with the scuttle. It takes time and fiddling but don’t give up, just do what needs to be done to make it look right.

 

Specifically to the bonnet panels to the tub: I have seen curved and straight. But I don’t care. The real fit is between the bonnet side panel and the rubber. And the rubber is determined by the forward edge of the tub. (This is why I say I don’t care.) You fit the panel to the rubber.

 

Before you trim or add any sheet metal, understand that you have the ability to “cheat” to solve any problem with fit. With this I mean you can move the rubber cowl strip +/- and then nail it to fit the sheet metal side panel. Do this before you try to fit the sheet metal to the rubber.

 

(Note: I goes without saying that you always check the rake on the radiator as well to adjust. Use the radiator stays to do this.)

 

For me, I have great displeasure when I see a noticeable gap between the bonnet panel and the rubber step. This can often be closed by simply moving the rubber strip. If moving the rubber does not solve the problem then trim or add sheet metal. The goal is to have the bonnet exactly to the rubber step with no gap. This is a great look and shows attention to detail.

 

I say the fit, bonnet to the rubber, is most important. If straight or slightly curves…… I have never really scrutinized a car for either.

 

Regards,

 

[b][i]Doug Pelton,[/i][/b] Proprietor

From The Frame Up

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[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]On Behalf Of [/b]kdcamer@295.ca [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] Friday, September 7, 2018 5:48 PM [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] rear edge of bonnet sides

 

 

I never did and still don't think that the red TC looked funny.. But, since you mention it, there is a distinct forward curve to the rear edge of the bonnet side, and that may well be the consequence of making the rear edge straight. Frankly, I never noticed it before, on that car or other TC's. In fact, I assumed the rear edge should be straight, until the question arose. Looking at various pictures, it obvious that some builders or restorers got it "right", and some didn't. Geometry is geometry, and the inevitable consequence of the joint between the scuttle and the quarter forward quarter panel lying in a flat plane, the outward curve from top to bottom of the bonnet side, and the taper of the bonnet dictate that the rear edge of the side panel must be a slight convex curve if the bonnet edge is to look straight in a direct side view. Does it matter? The point is, nobody should trim a nicely fitting bonnet edge to a straight line in the mistaken belief that it "should" be straight. Dave Cameron Metcalfe, Ontario

> Interesting.   That would explain why so many over-restored TC's "look > funny" in the bonnet area.   Like the red TC on the FromTheFrameUp web > page.Duncan-N. CA > > On Friday, September 7, 2018, 1:57:53 PM PDT, kdcamer@295.ca [mg-tabc] > mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > >   >> The rear edge of the bonnet is meant to appear as straight when viewed >> from the side, or at any rate, it is shown that way on the factory >> drawing. >> >> The side panel of the bonnet is not a plane surface, but curves outward >> from top to bottom. The bonnet also tapers from narrow at the front to >> wider at the rear. Obviously, then, if the rear edge of the bonnet WAS >> straight on the flat sheet, the rear edge would appear to be curved, >> convex forward, when viewed directly from the side. >> >> The slight convex curve to the rear is required to counter this >> undesired >> illusion. Similarly, the upward curve of the top line of the tub, behind >> the seats, is necessary to counter the illusion that the top line sags, >> as >> would appear, due to the outward curve of the tub side, when the car was >> viewed from normal eye height when a short distance away from the side >> of >> the car, if the top line was straight and level in an orthographic side >> view. >> >> Dave Cameron >> Metcalfe, Ontario >> >> >> >>> Fellows- >>> >>> After the longest tub rebuild on record, I am finally beginning to >>> mock-up >>> a 'car' around the tub. >>> >>> I have noticed that the rear edge of the bonnet side panels are not >>> dead >>> straight, but rather both sides have a very subtle arc to them, with >>> the >>> middle rear of the bonnet sides being the peak of the arc. >>> >>> Comments welcome before I even think about grinding the edges dead >>> straight, as I think there might be a reason for this subtle curve, as >>> both bonnet sides have it (altho the left side is slightly more arced >>> that >>> the right), maybe more obvious once I start aligning the bonnet, >>> checking >>> front tub height, etc... >>> >>> Thanks- >>> Mark TC8126 >>> Ohio >> >> >> > > >

[mgtc7794]

Amen, brother! Bob BrennanS. Freeport, METC7794EXU

On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 5:21 PM 'Doug Pelton' doug@fromtheframeup.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u] Greeting to all,[u][/u][u][/u][u][/u] [u][/u]

I have a different view on how to fit the bonnet. It is not absolute to be curved or cut to form a straight line.[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

I have built tubs, fitted all doors, scuttles, wings, bonnets, hoods, etc. The primary goal is to have all the lines compliment each other and look correct. Reference the bonnet: I have had to trim the bonnet panels, I have also had to add sheet metal to make it look right. Sometimes you have to take wood off or add to the front top rail (forward most top piece of wood to front of tub, bulkhead bolts to). In 2015 Mike Sherrell visited me when I had just finished a car and he questioned me on how I was able to get the bonnet fit so perfect with the scuttle. It takes time and fiddling but don t give up, just do what needs to be done to make it look right.[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

Specifically to the bonnet panels to the tub: I have seen curved and straight. But I don t care. The real fit is between the bonnet side panel and the rubber. And the rubber is determined by the forward edge of the tub. (This is why I say I don t care.) You fit the panel to the rubber. [u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

Before you trim or add any sheet metal, understand that you have the ability to cheat to solve any problem with fit. With this I mean you can move the rubber cowl strip +/- and then nail it to fit the sheet metal side panel. Do this before you try to fit the sheet metal to the rubber.[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

(Note: I goes without saying that you always check the rake on the radiator as well to adjust. Use the radiator stays to do this.)[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

For me, I have great displeasure when I see a noticeable gap between the bonnet panel and the rubber step. This can often be closed by simply moving the rubber strip. If moving the rubber does not solve the problem then trim or add sheet metal. The goal is to have the bonnet exactly to the rubber step with no gap. This is a great look and shows attention to detail.[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

I say the fit, bonnet to the rubber, is most important. If straight or slightly curves I have never really scrutinized a car for either.[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

Regards,[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

[b][i]Doug Pelton,[/i][/b] Proprietor[u][/u][u][/u]

From The Frame Up[u][/u][u][/u]

480-588-8185[u][/u][u][/u]

For Fastest Service: order@fromtheframeup.com[u][/u][u][/u]

Like us on FACEBOOK! [u][/u][u][/u]

See us on YouTUBE![u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

www.FromTheFrameUp.com[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]On Behalf Of [/b]kdcamer@295.ca [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] Friday, September 7, 2018 5:48 PM [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] rear edge of bonnet sides[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

[u][/u][u][/u]

I never did and still don't think that the red TC looked funny.. But, since you mention it, there is a distinct forward curve to the rear edge of the bonnet side, and that may well be the consequence of making the rear edge straight. Frankly, I never noticed it before, on that car or other TC's. In fact, I assumed the rear edge should be straight, until the question arose. Looking at various pictures, it obvious that some builders or restorers got it "right", and some didn't. Geometry is geometry, and the inevitable consequence of the joint between the scuttle and the quarter forward quarter panel lying in a flat plane, the outward curve from top to bottom of the bonnet side, and the taper of the bonnet dictate that the rear edge of the side panel must be a slight convex curve if the bonnet edge is to look straight in a direct side view. Does it matter? The point is, nobody should trim a nicely fitting bonnet edge to a straight line in the mistaken belief that it "should" be straight. Dave Cameron Metcalfe, Ontario > Interesting. That would explain why so many over-restored TC's "look > funny" in the bonnet area. Like the red TC on the FromTheFrameUp web > page.Duncan-N. CA > > On Friday, September 7, 2018, 1:57:53 PM PDT, kdcamer@295.ca [mg-tabc] > mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > >> The rear edge of the bonnet is meant to appear as straight when viewed >> from the side, or at any rate, it is shown that way on the factory >> drawing. >> >> The side panel of the bonnet is not a plane surface, but curves outward >> from top to bottom. The bonnet also tapers from narrow at the front to >> wider at the rear. Obviously, then, if the rear edge of the bonnet WAS >> straight on the flat sheet, the rear edge would appear to be curved, >> convex forward, when viewed directly from the side. >> >> The slight convex curve to the rear is required to counter this >> undesired >> illusion. Similarly, the upward curve of the top line of the tub, behind >> the seats, is necessary to counter the illusion that the top line sags, >> as >> would appear, due to the outward curve of the tub side, when the car was >> viewed from normal eye height when a short distance away from the side >> of >> the car, if the top line was straight and level in an orthographic side >> view. >> >> Dave Cameron >> Metcalfe, Ontario >> >> >> >>> Fellows- >>> >>> After the longest tub rebuild on record, I am finally beginning to >>> mock-up >>> a 'car' around the tub. >>> >>> I have noticed that the rear edge of the bonnet side panels are not >>> dead >>> straight, but rather both sides have a very subtle arc to them, with >>> the >>> middle rear of the bonnet sides being the peak of the arc. >>> >>> Comments welcome before I even think about grinding the edges dead >>> straight, as I think there might be a reason for this subtle curve, as >>> both bonnet sides have it (altho the left side is slightly more arced >>> that >>> the right), maybe more obvious once I start aligning the bonnet, >>> checking >>> front tub height, etc.... >>> >>> Thanks- >>> Mark TC8126 >>> Ohio >> >> >> > > > [u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u][u][/u]

[Mark M]

Thanks Doug for supplying this valuble tip.   My original post regarding the curved aspect of both of my bonnet sides was to determine whether of not this was correct and original, as I bought my TC as an unfinished project with some replaced wood that fit uncorrectly. My fear was that the rear bonnet sides had been altered in this previous attempt to get the incorrectly assembled tub to fit the bonnet. But now I know with great relief the are correct as they are.   It is interesting though how this detail that was likely well known and thought out at the factory has been almost lost to the ages.   Thanks Again- Mark TC8126 EXU    

----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] doug@fromtheframeup.com [mg-tabc] [b]To:[/b] kdcamer@295.ca ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Saturday, September 08, 2018 5:20 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] rear edge of bonnet sides   Greeting to all,

I have a different view on how to fit the bonnet.  It is not absolute to be curved or cut to form a straight line.

I have built tubs, fitted all doors, scuttles, wings, bonnets, hoods, etc.  The primary goal is to have all the lines compliment each other and look correct.  Reference the bonnet:  I have had to trim the bonnet panels, I have also had to add sheet metal to make it look right.  Sometimes you have to take wood off or add to the front top rail (forward most top piece of wood to front of tub, bulkhead bolts to).  In 2015 Mike Sherrell visited me when I had just finished a car and he questioned me on how I was able to get the bonnet fit so perfect with the scuttle.  It takes time and fiddling but don t give up, just do what needs to be done to make it look right.

Specifically to the bonnet panels to the tub:  I have seen curved and straight.  But I don t care.  The real fit is between the bonnet side panel and the rubber.  And the rubber is determined by the forward edge of the tub.   (This is why I say I don t care.) You fit the panel to the rubber.

Before you trim or add any sheet metal, understand that you have the ability to cheat to solve any problem with fit.  With this I mean you can move the rubber cowl strip +/- and then nail it to fit the sheet metal side panel.  Do this before you try to fit the sheet metal to the rubber.

(Note:  I goes without saying that you always check the rake on the radiator as well to adjust.  Use the radiator stays to do this.)

For me, I have great displeasure when I see a noticeable gap between the bonnet panel and the rubber step.  This can often be closed by simply moving the rubber strip.  If moving the rubber does not solve the problem then trim or add sheet metal.  The goal is to have the bonnet exactly to the rubber step with no gap.  This is a great look and shows attention to detail.

I say the fit, bonnet to the rubber, is most important.  If straight or slightly curves   I have never really scrutinized a car for either.

Regards,

[b][i]Doug Pelton,[/i][/b] Proprietor

From The Frame Up

480-588-8185

For Fastest Service:  order@fromtheframeup.com

Like us on FACEBOOK!

See us on YouTUBE!

www.FromTheFrameUp.com

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]On Behalf Of [/b]kdcamer@295.ca [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] Friday, September 7, 2018 5:48 PM [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] rear edge of bonnet sides

 

I never did and still don't think that the red TC looked funny.. But, since you mention it, there is a distinct forward curve to the rear edge of the bonnet side, and that may well be the consequence of making the rear edge straight. Frankly, I never noticed it before, on that car or other TC's. In fact, I assumed the rear edge should be straight, until the question arose. Looking at various pictures, it obvious that some builders or restorers got it "right", and some didn't. Geometry is geometry, and the inevitable consequence of the joint between the scuttle and the quarter forward quarter panel lying in a flat plane, the outward curve from top to bottom of the bonnet side, and the taper of the bonnet dictate that the rear edge of the side panel must be a slight convex curve if the bonnet edge is to look straight in a direct side view. Does it matter? The point is, nobody should trim a nicely fitting bonnet edge to a straight line in the mistaken belief that it "should" be straight. Dave Cameron Metcalfe, Ontario > Interesting.   That would explain why so many over-restored TC's "look > funny" in the bonnet area.   Like the red TC on the FromTheFrameUp web > page.Duncan-N. CA > > On Friday, September 7, 2018, 1:57:53 PM PDT, kdcamer@295.ca [mg-tabc] > mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > >   >> The rear edge of the bonnet is meant to appear as straight when viewed >> from the side, or at any rate, it is shown that way on the factory >> drawing. >> >> The side panel of the bonnet is not a plane surface, but curves outward >> from top to bottom. The bonnet also tapers from narrow at the front to >> wider at the rear. Obviously, then, if the rear edge of the bonnet WAS >> straight on the flat sheet, the rear edge would appear to be curved, >> convex forward, when viewed directly from the side. >> >> The slight convex curve to the rear is required to counter this >> undesired >> illusion. Similarly, the upward curve of the top line of the tub, behind >> the seats, is necessary to counter the illusion that the top line sags, >> as >> would appear, due to the outward curve of the tub side, when the car was >> viewed from normal eye height when a short distance away from the side >> of >> the car, if the top line was straight and level in an orthographic side >> view. >> >> Dave Cameron >> Metcalfe, Ontario >> >> >> >>> Fellows- >>> >>> After the longest tub rebuild on record, I am finally beginning to >>> mock-up >>> a 'car' around the tub. >>> >>> I have noticed that the rear edge of the bonnet side panels are not >>> dead >>> straight, but rather both sides have a very subtle arc to them, with >>> the >>> middle rear of the bonnet sides being the peak of the arc. >>> >>> Comments welcome before I even think about grinding the edges dead >>> straight, as I think there might be a reason for this subtle curve, as >>> both bonnet sides have it (altho the left side is slightly more arced >>> that >>> the right), maybe more obvious once I start aligning the bonnet, >>> checking >>> front tub height, etc.... >>> >>> Thanks- >>> Mark TC8126 >>> Ohio >> >> >> > > >

[Barry Cook]

Also take in account the bonnet's front lower sides.  The upper portion is easily adjusted with the stay rods.  The lower is fixed which unfortunately results on some cars the bonnet not being parallel with the grill shells chrome bead.  How I resolved this problem is I removed the grill shell and radiator and elongated the two radiator mounting holes.  I removed about 1/4" of metal in front and back of the existing holes so as to slide the radiator/grill shell forward or backwords to line up with the bonnet.  Once the lower is aligned, the upper stay tubes will finish up the front alignment.  I am surprised the factory did not do this small detail.Barry Cook  On Saturday, September 8, 2018 2:21 PM, "'Doug Pelton' doug@fromtheframeup.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   Greeting to all,  I have a different view on how to fit the bonnet.  It is not absolute to be curved or cut to form a straight line.  I have built tubs, fitted all doors, scuttles, wings, bonnets, hoods, etc.  The primary goal is to have all the lines compliment each other and look correct.  Reference the bonnet:  I have had to trim the bonnet panels, I have also had to add sheet metal to make it look right.  Sometimes you have to take wood off or add to the front top rail (forward most top piece of wood to front of tub, bulkhead bolts to).  In 2015 Mike Sherrell visited me when I had just finished a car and he questioned me on how I was able to get the bonnet fit so perfect with the scuttle.  It takes time and fiddling but don t give up, just do what needs to be done to make it look right.  Specifically to the bonnet panels to the tub:  I have seen curved and straight.  But I don t care.  The real fit is between the bonnet side panel and the rubber.  And the rubber is determined by the forward edge of the tub.   (This is why I say I don t care.) You fit the panel to the rubber.  Before you trim or add any sheet metal, understand that you have the ability to cheat to solve any problem with fit.  With this I mean you can move the rubber cowl strip +/- and then nail it to fit the sheet metal side panel.  Do this before you try to fit the sheet metal to the rubber.  (Note:  I goes without saying that you always check the rake on the radiator as well to adjust.  Use the radiator stays to do this.)  For me, I have great displeasure when I see a noticeable gap between the bonnet panel and the rubber step.  This can often be closed by simply moving the rubber strip.  If moving the rubber does not solve the problem then trim or add sheet metal.  The goal is to have the bonnet exactly to the rubber step with no gap.  This is a great look and shows attention to detail.  I say the fit, bonnet to the rubber, is most important.  If straight or slightly curves   I have never really scrutinized a car for either.  Regards,  [b][i]Doug Pelton,[/i][/b] ProprietorFrom The Frame Up480-588-8185For Fastest Service:  order@fromtheframeup.comLike us on FACEBOOK! See us on YouTUBE!  www.FromTheFrameUp.com  [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]On Behalf Of [/b]kdcamer@295.ca [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] Friday, September 7, 2018 5:48 PM [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] rear edge of bonnet sides    I never did and still don't think that the red TC looked funny.. But, since you mention it, there is a distinct forward curve to the rear edge of the bonnet side, and that may well be the consequence of making the rear edge straight. Frankly, I never noticed it before, on that car or other TC's. In fact, I assumed the rear edge should be straight, until the question arose. Looking at various pictures, it obvious that some builders or restorers got it "right", and some didn't. Geometry is geometry, and the inevitable consequence of the joint between the scuttle and the quarter forward quarter panel lying in a flat plane, the outward curve from top to bottom of the bonnet side, and the taper of the bonnet dictate that the rear edge of the side panel must be a slight convex curve if the bonnet edge is to look straight in a direct side view. Does it matter? The point is, nobody should trim a nicely fitting bonnet edge to a straight line in the mistaken belief that it "should" be straight. Dave Cameron Metcalfe, Ontario > Interesting.   That would explain why so many over-restored TC's "look > funny" in the bonnet area.   Like the red TC on the FromTheFrameUp web > page.Duncan-N. CA > > On Friday, September 7, 2018, 1:57:53 PM PDT, kdcamer@295.ca [mg-tabc] > mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > >   >> The rear edge of the bonnet is meant to appear as straight when viewed >> from the side, or at any rate, it is shown that way on the factory >> drawing. >> >> The side panel of the bonnet is not a plane surface, but curves outward >> from top to bottom. The bonnet also tapers from narrow at the front to >> wider at the rear. Obviously, then, if the rear edge of the bonnet WAS >> straight on the flat sheet, the rear edge would appear to be curved, >> convex forward, when viewed directly from the side. >> >> The slight convex curve to the rear is required to counter this >> undesired >> illusion. Similarly, the upward curve of the top line of the tub, behind >> the seats, is necessary to counter the illusion that the top line sags, >> as >> would appear, due to the outward curve of the tub side, when the car was >> viewed from normal eye height when a short distance away from the side >> of >> the car, if the top line was straight and level in an orthographic side >> view. >> >> Dave Cameron >> Metcalfe, Ontario >> >> >> >>> Fellows- >>> >>> After the longest tub rebuild on record, I am finally beginning to >>> mock-up >>> a 'car' around the tub. >>> >>> I have noticed that the rear edge of the bonnet side panels are not >>> dead >>> straight, but rather both sides have a very subtle arc to them, with >>> the >>> middle rear of the bonnet sides being the peak of the arc. >>> >>> Comments welcome before I even think about grinding the edges dead >>> straight, as I think there might be a reason for this subtle curve, as >>> both bonnet sides have it (altho the left side is slightly more arced >>> that >>> the right), maybe more obvious once I start aligning the bonnet, >>> checking >>> front tub height, etc.... >>> >>> Thanks- >>> Mark TC8126 >>> Ohio >> >> >> > > > #ygrps-yiv-624430193 #ygrps-yiv-624430193yiv1157613041 #ygrps-yiv-624430193yiv1157613041 -- #ygrps-yiv-624430193yiv1157613041ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #ygrps-yiv-624430193 #ygrps-yiv-624430193yiv1157613041 #ygrps-yiv-624430193yiv1157613041ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrps-yiv-624430193 #ygrps-yiv-624430193yiv1157613041 #ygrps-yiv-624430193yiv1157613041ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-624430193yiv1157613041hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #ygrps-yiv-624430193 #ygrps-yiv-624430193yiv1157613041 #ygrps-yiv-624430193yiv1157613041ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-624430193yiv1157613041ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #ygrps-yiv-624430193 #ygrps-yiv-624430193yiv1157613041 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[Chip Hellie]

They obviously didn't have a oblong drill bit!Chip Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Sun, Sep 30, 2018 at 12:28 PM, Barry Cook barryc8950@yahoo.com [mg-tabc]mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   Also take in account the bonnet's front lower sides.  The upper portion is easily adjusted with the stay rods.  The lower is fixed which unfortunately results on some cars the bonnet not being parallel with the grill shells chrome bead.  How I resolved this problem is I removed the grill shell and radiator and elongated the two radiator mounting holes.  I removed about 1/4" of metal in front and back of the existing holes so as to slide the radiator/grill shell forward or backwords to line up with the bonnet.  Once the lower is aligned, the upper stay tubes will finish up the front alignment.  I am surprised the factory did not do this small detail..Barry Cook  On Saturday, September 8, 2018 2:21 PM, "'Doug Pelton' doug@fromtheframeup.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   Greeting to all,  I have a different view on how to fit the bonnet.  It is not absolute to be curved or cut to form a straight line.  I have built tubs, fitted all doors, scuttles, wings, bonnets, hoods, etc.  The primary goal is to have all the lines compliment each other and look correct.  Reference the bonnet:  I have had to trim the bonnet panels, I have also had to add sheet metal to make it look right.  Sometimes you have to take wood off or add to the front top rail (forward most top piece of wood to front of tub, bulkhead bolts to).  In 2015 Mike Sherrell visited me when I had just finished a car and he questioned me on how I was able to get the bonnet fit so perfect with the scuttle.  It takes time and fiddling but don t give up, just do what needs to be done to make it look right.  Specifically to the bonnet panels to the tub:  I have seen curved and straight.  But I don t care.  The real fit is between the bonnet side panel and the rubber.  And the rubber is determined by the forward edge of the tub.   (This is why I say I don t care.) You fit the panel to the rubber.  Before you trim or add any sheet metal, understand that you have the ability to cheat to solve any problem with fit.  With this I mean you can move the rubber cowl strip +/- and then nail it to fit the sheet metal side panel.  Do this before you try to fit the sheet metal to the rubber.  (Note:  I goes without saying that you always check the rake on the radiator as well to adjust.  Use the radiator stays to do this.)  For me, I have great displeasure when I see a noticeable gap between the bonnet panel and the rubber step.  This can often be closed by simply moving the rubber strip.  If moving the rubber does not solve the problem then trim or add sheet metal.  The goal is to have the bonnet exactly to the rubber step with no gap.  This is a great look and shows attention to detail.  I say the fit, bonnet to the rubber, is most important.  If straight or slightly curves   I have never really scrutinized a car for either.  Regards,  [b][i]Doug Pelton,[/i][/b] ProprietorFrom The Frame Up480-588-8185For Fastest Service:  order@fromtheframeup.comLike us on FACEBOOK! See us on YouTUBE!  www.FromTheFrameUp.com  [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]On Behalf Of [/b]kdcamer@295.ca [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] Friday, September 7, 2018 5:48 PM [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] rear edge of bonnet sides    I never did and still don't think that the red TC looked funny.. But, since you mention it, there is a distinct forward curve to the rear edge of the bonnet side, and that may well be the consequence of making the rear edge straight. Frankly, I never noticed it before, on that car or other TC's. In fact, I assumed the rear edge should be straight, until the question arose. Looking at various pictures, it obvious that some builders or restorers got it "right", and some didn't. Geometry is geometry, and the inevitable consequence of the joint between the scuttle and the quarter forward quarter panel lying in a flat plane, the outward curve from top to bottom of the bonnet side, and the taper of the bonnet dictate that the rear edge of the side panel must be a slight convex curve if the bonnet edge is to look straight in a direct side view. Does it matter? The point is, nobody should trim a nicely fitting bonnet edge to a straight line in the mistaken belief that it "should" be straight. Dave Cameron Metcalfe, Ontario > Interesting.   That would explain why so many over-restored TC's "look > funny" in the bonnet area.   Like the red TC on the FromTheFrameUp web > page.Duncan-N. CA > > On Friday, September 7, 2018, 1:57:53 PM PDT, kdcamer@295.ca [mg-tabc] > mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > >   >> The rear edge of the bonnet is meant to appear as straight when viewed >> from the side, or at any rate, it is shown that way on the factory >> drawing. >> >> The side panel of the bonnet is not a plane surface, but curves outward >> from top to bottom.. The bonnet also tapers from narrow at the front to >> wider at the rear. Obviously, then, if the rear edge of the bonnet WAS >> straight on the flat sheet, the rear edge would appear to be curved, >> convex forward, when viewed directly from the side. >> >> The slight convex curve to the rear is required to counter this >> undesired >> illusion. Similarly, the upward curve of the top line of the tub, behind >> the seats, is necessary to counter the illusion that the top line sags, >> as >> would appear, due to the outward curve of the tub side, when the car was >> viewed from normal eye height when a short distance away from the side >> of >> the car, if the top line was straight and level in an orthographic side >> view. >> >> Dave Cameron >> Metcalfe, Ontario >> >> >> >>> Fellows- >>> >>> After the longest tub rebuild on record, I am finally beginning to >>> mock-up >>> a 'car' around the tub. >>> >>> I have noticed that the rear edge of the bonnet side panels are not >>> dead >>> straight, but rather both sides have a very subtle arc to them, with >>> the >>> middle rear of the bonnet sides being the peak of the arc. >>> >>> Comments welcome before I even think about grinding the edges dead >>> straight, as I think there might be a reason for this subtle curve, as >>> both bonnet sides have it (altho the left side is slightly more arced >>> that >>> the right), maybe more obvious once I start aligning the bonnet, >>> checking >>> front tub height, etc..... >>> >>> Thanks- >>> Mark TC8126 >>> Ohio >> >> >> > > > #ygrps-yiv-585165456 #ygrps-yiv-585165456yiv7495018000 #ygrps-yiv-585165456yiv7495018000 -- #ygrps-yiv-585165456yiv7495018000ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #ygrps-yiv-585165456 #ygrps-yiv-585165456yiv7495018000 #ygrps-yiv-585165456yiv7495018000ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrps-yiv-585165456 #ygrps-yiv-585165456yiv7495018000 #ygrps-yiv-585165456yiv7495018000ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-585165456yiv7495018000hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #ygrps-yiv-585165456 #ygrps-yiv-585165456yiv7495018000 #ygrps-yiv-585165456yiv7495018000ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-585165456yiv7495018000ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #ygrps-yiv-585165456 #ygrps-yiv-585165456yiv7495018000 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