Carbon deposits on piston.

[eworpe]

Any thoughts on this conundrum? A friend recently had a blown head gasket between no. 3 and 4 cylinders, but was able to limp home on reduced power accommpanied by a strange "tinkling" sound. On inspection of the piston tops, no. 1,2 & 3 pistons all had the usual carbon deposits but no.4 piston was clean, almost presenting a shiny surface. Needless to say this has us puzzled. Previously his TC ran well with no loss of performance and certainly no signs of misfiring. No.3 piston's carbon deposits didn't seem so heavy as pistons no. 1 & 2, but that may be coincidental. I had wondered if some coolant entered no.4 cylinder and the resultant steam might then have scavenged the piston clean. Regards, Eric.

[Frank Graham]

What you are seeing is the effects of 'steam cleaning', water from the cooling system being drawn into the combustion chamber. The cleaning effect happens when the leak first begins and is small. In effect it is water injection until the head gasket leak becomes significant enough that compression is lost and the cylinder stops firing. There are products like Seafoam that are intended to decoke the cylinder head which hook up to the induction system and permit a measured flow of water based additive to the incoming fuel/air mix. Be prepared for a lot of white smoke out the tailpipe when doing this.

Frank  

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, August 20, 2018 5:21 AM [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Carbon deposits on piston.     Any thoughts on this conundrum? A friend recently had a blown head gasket between no. 3 and 4 cylinders, but was able to limp home on reduced power accommpanied by a strange "tinkling" sound. On inspection of the piston tops, no. 1,2 & 3 pistons all had the usual carbon deposits but no.4 piston was clean, almost presenting a shiny surface. Needless to say this has us puzzled. Previously his TC ran well with no loss of performance and certainly no signs of misfiring. No.3 piston's carbon deposits didn't seem so heavy as pistons no. 1 & 2, but that may be coincidental. I had wondered if some coolant entered no.4 cylinder and the resultant steam might then have scavenged the piston clean. Regards, Eric.

[eworpe]

Hi Frank, Thanks for your reply, as I've now discovered water injection can be used for cleaning the cylinder internals very effectively. The carbon deposits absorb water and this then turns to steam during the power stroke with an eruptive force that breaks up any carbon leaving a clean piston crown. Regards, Eric. ________________________________________ From: Frank Graham [FrankGraham@msn.com] What you are seeing is the effects of 'steam cleaning', water from the cooling system being drawn into the combustion chamber. The cleaning effect happens when the leak first begins and is small. In effect it is water injection until the head gasket leak becomes significant enough that compression is lost and the cylinder stops firing. There are products like Seafoam that are intended to decoke the cylinder head which hook up to the induction system and permit a measured flow of water based additive to the incoming fuel/air mix. Be prepared for a lot of white smoke out the tailpipe when doing this. ________________________________ From: E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk [mg-tabc]

[Norman Verona]

Just a word of warning on this. Our engines aren’t like modern computer machined engines and need the ring of carbon around the edge of the piston to seal it and reduce oil consumption.

 

My engine has just reached the 3000 mile mark and has only just stopped using oil at a higher rate than it should as the carbon has built up and sealed the piston. The same is true of the valve guides but nowhere near the same.

 

 

[b][i]Norman Verona[/i][/b]

11 Cherry Close, Royston, South Yorkshire S71 4LZ

Phone: 0044 (0)1226 728811

Mob: 0044 (0)741 9905 741

[b][i]Web: www.frenchblat.com[/i][/b]

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Frank Graham frankgraham@msn.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] 20 August 2018 14:26 [b]To:[/b] E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Re: Carbon deposits on piston.

 

 

What you are seeing is the effects of 'steam cleaning', water from the cooling system being drawn into the combustion chamber. The cleaning effect happens when the leak first begins and is small. In effect it is water injection until the head gasket leak becomes significant enough that compression is lost and the cylinder stops firing. There are products like Seafoam that are intended to decoke the cylinder head which hook up to the induction system and permit a measured flow of water based additive to the incoming fuel/air mix. Be prepared for a lot of white smoke out the tailpipe when doing this.

 

Frank  

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, August 20, 2018 5:21 AM [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Carbon deposits on piston.

 

 

Any thoughts on this conundrum? A friend recently had a blown head gasket between no. 3 and 4 cylinders, but was able to limp home on reduced power accommpanied by a strange "tinkling" sound. On inspection of the piston tops, no. 1,2 & 3 pistons all had the usual carbon deposits but no.4 piston was clean, almost presenting a shiny surface. Needless to say this has us puzzled. Previously his TC ran well with no loss of performance and certainly no signs of misfiring. No.3 piston's carbon deposits didn't seem so heavy as pistons no. 1 & 2, but that may be coincidental. I had wondered if some coolant entered no.4 cylinder and the resultant steam might then have scavenged the piston clean. Regards, Eric.

[David Lodge]

Hello Eric, Do you remember those adverts in the Sixties for a gadget which promised to clean your engine as you drive? Practical Motorist or Car Mechanics or somesuch ran a test on it, and discovered that it was a type of water-injection system! Didn't last long I seem to remember, as most blokes were freaked out at the prospect of pumping water into the engine! Seems as though it works! All the best, D. P.S. Might be at Spring Beaulieu!

On Mon, 20 Aug 2018 at 06:39, E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u] Hi Frank, Thanks for your reply, as I've now discovered water injection can be used for cleaning the cylinder internals very effectively. The carbon deposits absorb water and this then turns to steam during the power stroke with an eruptive force that breaks up any carbon leaving a clean piston crown. Regards, Eric. ________________________________________ From: Frank Graham [FrankGraham@msn.com] What you are seeing is the effects of 'steam cleaning', water from the cooling system being drawn into the combustion chamber. The cleaning effect happens when the leak first begins and is small. In effect it is water injection until the head gasket leak becomes significant enough that compression is lost and the cylinder stops firing. There are products like Seafoam that are intended to decoke the cylinder head which hook up to the induction system and permit a measured flow of water based additive to the incoming fuel/air mix. Be prepared for a lot of white smoke out the tailpipe when doing this. ________________________________ From: E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk [mg-tabc]

[Frank Graham]

In 1962 GM offered its all alloy 215 CID engine (later sold to Rover to become the 3.5 Liter of MGBGT V8 fame) in turbocharged form in the Oldsmobile F85. That and the Corvair were among the very first production cars to offer turbochargers. To keep the high compression Olds V8 turbo from detonating it came with water injection into the inlet manifold. There was a water reservoir under the hood which held about a gallon or so of water that had to be topped up frequently. The water cooled the incoming charge and increased the density preventing knock.   

[b]From:[/b] David Lodge emmgeeteesee@gmail.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, August 20, 2018 11:41 PM [b]To:[/b] E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk [b]Cc:[/b] FrankGraham@msn.com; MG-TABC; Tweed [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] RE: Carbon deposits on piston.   Hello Eric, Do you remember those adverts in the Sixties for a gadget which promised to clean your engine as you drive?  Practical Motorist or Car Mechanics or somesuch ran a test on it, and discovered that it was a type of water-injection system!  Didn't last long I seem to remember, as most blokes were freaked out at the prospect of pumping water into the engine!  Seems as though it works! All the best, D. P.S. Might be at Spring Beaulieu! On Mon, 20 Aug 2018 at 06:39, E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

[u][/u]   Hi Frank, Thanks for your reply, as I've now discovered water injection can be used for cleaning the cylinder internals very effectively. The carbon deposits absorb water and this then turns to steam during the power stroke with an eruptive force that breaks up any carbon leaving a clean piston crown. Regards, Eric. ________________________________________ From: Frank Graham [FrankGraham@msn.com] What you are seeing is the effects of 'steam cleaning', water from the cooling system being drawn into the combustion chamber. The cleaning effect happens when the leak first begins and is small. In effect it is water injection until the head gasket leak becomes significant enough that compression is lost and the cylinder stops firing. There are products like Seafoam that are intended to decoke the cylinder head which hook up to the induction system and permit a measured flow of water based additive to the incoming fuel/air mix. Be prepared for a lot of white smoke out the tailpipe when doing this. ________________________________ From: E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk [mg-tabc]

[Norman Verona]

Some of you may know that my company is one of the leading suppliers of systems (DMS) to car dealers.

 

One of our early customers was a Vauxhall dealer based on the Norfolk coast, operating out of a converted cinema who produced a water injection system. I remember it was for Vauxhall Vectra engines but could be fitted to any engine with a bit of tinkering. They claimed by injecting a small drop of water into the intake the cooling effect gave more power. I remember him saying that most folk think their engine run better when it s raining and that s because of this cooling effect of moisture in the air.

 

They went under in the 1980 s recession and I ve not seen them since.

 

 

[b][i]Norman Verona[/i][/b]

11 Cherry Close, Royston, South Yorkshire S71 4LZ

Phone: 0044 (0)1226 728811

Mob: 0044 (0)741 9905 741

[b][i]Web: www.frenchblat.com[/i][/b]

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]On Behalf Of [/b]David Lodge emmgeeteesee@gmail.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] 21 August 2018 04:41 [b]To:[/b] E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk [b]Cc:[/b] FrankGraham@msn.com; MG-TABC mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>; Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk> [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] RE: Carbon deposits on piston.

 

 

Hello Eric,

 

Do you remember those adverts in the Sixties for a gadget which promised to clean your engine as you drive?  Practical Motorist or Car Mechanics or somesuch ran a test on it, and discovered that it was a type of water-injection system! 

 

Didn't last long I seem to remember, as most blokes were freaked out at the prospect of pumping water into the engine!  Seems as though it works!

 

All the best, D.

 

P.S. Might be at Spring Beaulieu!

 

On Mon, 20 Aug 2018 at 06:39, E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hi Frank, Thanks for your reply, as I've now discovered water injection can be used for cleaning the cylinder internals very effectively. The carbon deposits absorb water and this then turns to steam during the power stroke with an eruptive force that breaks up any carbon leaving a clean piston crown. Regards, Eric. ________________________________________ From: Frank Graham [FrankGraham@msn.com] What you are seeing is the effects of 'steam cleaning', water from the cooling system being drawn into the combustion chamber. The cleaning effect happens when the leak first begins and is small. In effect it is water injection until the head gasket leak becomes significant enough that compression is lost and the cylinder stops firing. There are products like Seafoam that are intended to decoke the cylinder head which hook up to the induction system and permit a measured flow of water based additive to the incoming fuel/air mix. Be prepared for a lot of white smoke out the tailpipe when doing this. ________________________________ From: E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk [mg-tabc]

[eworpe]

Thanks to all those who have offered enlightenment on this issue. I've since learnt that just prior to the head gasket blowing, the TC had been driven through a deep puddle that threw up a considerable amount of spray. It's quite likely that some of the spray entered through the ram jet on the rear carb., and entered no.4 cylinder. We're hoping that this didn't cause a hydraulic lock and that the effect of water injection was to increase the peak cylinder pressure resulting in the blowing of the gasket between 3 and 4 cylinders whilst also cleaning the piston top of carbon deposits. I wonder if water injection works at two levels, a fine water spray would cool the incoming charge of air increasing its density, and then when subjected to the combustion temperature, turn to steam thus increasing the expansion of the cylinder charge and increasing the peak pressure; hence more power. Regards, Eric. ________________________________________ From: Frank Graham [FrankGraham@msn.com] What you are seeing is the effects of 'steam cleaning', water from the cooling system being drawn into the combustion chamber. The cleaning effect happens when the leak first begins and is small. In effect it is water injection until the head gasket leak becomes significant enough that compression is lost and the cylinder stops firing. There are products like Seafoam that are intended to decoke the cylinder head which hook up to the induction system and permit a measured flow of water based additive to the incoming fuel/air mix. Be prepared for a lot of white smoke out the tailpipe when doing this. ________________________________ From:E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk A friend recently had a blown head gasket between no. 3 and 4 cylinders, but was able to limp home on reduced power accommpanied by a strange "tinkling" sound. On inspection of the piston tops, no. 1,2 & 3 pistons all had the usual carbon deposits but no.4 piston was clean, almost presenting a shiny surface. Needless to say this has us puzzled. Previously his TC ran well with no loss of performance and certainly no signs of misfiring. No.3 piston's carbon deposits didn't seem so heavy as pistons no. 1 & 2, but that may be coincidental. I had wondered if some coolant entered no.4 cylinder and the resultant steam might then have scavenged the piston clean.