YET another question on Pos to Neg on MG TA

[Mike Inglehearn]

Hi IanI can't make any comment either way only the explanation given by Lucas for the change to positive earth,  the full explanation I read regarding the return to negative earth is herehttps://www.quora.com/Why-did-cars-and-trucks-in-the-1950s-switch-from-positive-ground-electrical-systems-to-negative-ground-systems-which-we-use-to-this-day but not a definitive reason, I have also just seen the second possible reason for the change as being to do with car radios but I certainly would not like to give an opinion as to why the change was made back.I think many people in the past probably changed older cars to negative earth to make it easier to fit  electronic ignition and modern radios, but I think many electronic ignitions are now available for positive earth if that is wanted. RegardsMike From: "ian thomson i.thomson@talk21.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]To:[/b] MIKE INGLEHEARN mingle54@btinternet.com>; Yahoogroups mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, 11 January 2018, 17:26 [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] YET another question on Pos to Neg on MG TA   Very interesting Mike.  I suspect, however, that the reasons for the change were/are somewhat suspect.  I suppose I can understand the spark plug electrode argument as electrical current is the movement of electrons which are negatively charged.  As in a thermionic valve they are emitted more easily from the hottest point which is why old fashioned valves and cathode ray tube as used in old televisions had a heater next to the negatively charged cathode.  The centre electrode in a value is the hottest point and thus should be negative for best operation.  I know this is often cited as being important when connecting coils which are marked CB and something else which escapes me at the moment rather than just plain pos and neg.  Incidentally this is claimed to be important when changing the overall polarity also.  The claim is that although it still works, if you only change the ammeter and not the coil it will not be as good.  I suppose that the onward march of technology overcame these marginal advantages but it doesn't explain why they changed back to negative earth.   As for the battery sulphation I can't see that at all as as far as the battery is concerned nothing has actually changed as current still flows through it in the same direction.  The change to pvc covered cabling just sounds like nonsense thought up be some publicity department.RegardsIan ThomsonNotts. UK.

On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 at 15:21, MIKE INGLEHEARNmingle54@btinternet.com> wrote: Hi IanAccording to the Lucas Technical Service Overseas Training Course manual page 5 of Section 6 (Vehicle Wiring), British vehicles were changed around 1936 from negative to positive earth as "certain specific advantages were found", some of the main ones being improved sparkplug performance from the central electrode being made negative, and the formation of electrolytic sulphation at the battery positive terminal also corrosion of switch contacts and connectors was reduced. I read that the change back to negative earth followed the use o f PVC covered wiring which was less prone to damp than the cloth & rubber covering of the old wire. RegardsMikeTB0457(Still positive earth) From: "ian thomson i.thomson@talk21.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To: Yahoogroups mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, 11 January 2018, 11:12 [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] YET another question on Pos to Neg on MG TA   Without meaning to criticize you Dennis, the only question relevant for me here is Why?.  Leaving aside the question of why the factory chose to make T types positive earth in the first place when previous cars were negative earth, why change something which works?  Many people will cite the addition of modern appliances which come only in negative earth versions but even these work perfectly well if isolated from the metalwork of the car and having a wooden body helps in this regard.  Simply connect the two wires correctly to the car wiring without while insulating the whole setup from the metalwork or, if there is only one power connector, connect the body of the part to the car wiring and the power connection to the car metalwork.  Why make things difficult by having to do all the extra work of reversing polarity and running the risk of confusing future custodians? No offence meantIan ThomsonNotts. UK

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[Tweed]

I'm with you guys half the way,  the half that doesn't see a need to change the polarity of the whole car  .... but you can't un-invent modern electronic wizardry, all of which seems to be neg earth ... and you must admit some of it is worth having.  I have a cigarette-lighter type socket wired negative earth direct from the battery. The body is suitably insulated where it mounts on the car and there is an inline fuse on the + side.    I can't say we ALL have mobile phones, but for those of us that do it is handy to be able to charge it while on the move in a T type.   Each to his own, but to me a radio in a T type is like having an ashtray on a motorbike!  TweedTC 0632Cambridge UK      From: "Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To: "i.thomson@talk21.com" i.thomson@talk21.com>; Yahoogroups mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, 11 January 2018, 12:51 Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] YET another question on Pos to Neg on MG TA   I have to agree with Ian, no offense intended, but I don't need a nav or CD system in my TC, somehow a road map and the exhaust note seem more in keeping with the theme.Steve TC2911 [b]From:[/b] "ian thomson i.thomson@talk21.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To: Yahoogroups mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, January 11, 2018 5:12 AM [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] YET another question on Pos to Neg on MG TA   Without meaning to criticize you Dennis, the only question relevant for me here is Why?.  Leaving aside the question of why the factory chose to make T types positive earth in the first place when previous cars were negative earth, why change something which works?  Many people will cite the addition of modern appliances which come only in negative earth versions but even these work perfectly well if isolated from the metalwork of the car and having a wooden body helps in this regard.  Simply connect the two wires correctly to the car wiring without while insulating the whole setup from the metalwork or, if there is only one power connector, connect the body of the part to the car wiring and the power connection to the car metalwork.  Why make things difficult by having to do all the extra work of reversing polarity and running the risk of confusing future custodians? No offence meantIan ThomsonNotts. 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[CHARLES HUGHES]

 I am reminded of something I was told years ago during a discussion about positive earth in our little British cars:

"Positive Earth is a state of mind!"

Cheers!

- Mike Hughes

  '37 TA 0512

[Mark Sherman]

There is one modern device I have found that is incompatible with positive ground: electronic tachometer. I kept my TD positive ground for 26 years. Then I realized that I needed a more accurate tach with a higher maximum. The only way I could get it to work was by reversing the polarity. (It is of course possible that there is one that will work with positive ground but I went through three tachs before I decided to reverse the polarity.) Mark Sherman

[Dennis Nelson]

And this is the genesis for my question in the first. I am going for a driver not a trailer queen and want accurate instrumentation. It is amazing what is out there that is period looking but totally modern, and that is what I'm going for. For the OP, my address is . . . . . :-)

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 7:05 PM, Mark Sherman shrmnmrk@gmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u] There is one modern device I have found that is incompatible with positive ground: electronic tachometer. I kept my TD positive ground for 26 years. Then I realized that I needed a more accurate tach with a higher maximum. The only way I could get it to work was by reversing the polarity. (It is of course possible that there is one that will work with positive ground but I went through three tachs before I decided to reverse the polarity.) Mark Sherman

[Andrea VILLA]

No problem to connect a 12V Multiple sockets to TC with negative ground wiring

I have one of the commercial 3 socket+ 1 USB socket  for the GPS and/or Air Compressor or other instruments -connected (fused) to the dash- aux  light  sockets 

-Multiple sockets are screwed at the rear of the Panel Dashboards Passenger side (here are perfectly insulated from car ground) Hidden to the view BUT perfectly accessible with a bit of skill