YET another question on Pos to Neg on MG TA

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Dennis Nelson
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:48 am

YET another question on Pos to Neg on MG TA

Post by Dennis Nelson » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:54 pm

I know this subject has been hashed over ad nauseum but I still have a question. Now this should be totally obvious but, when changing from Positive to Negative ground on my TA, prior to polarizing the generator and cutout (regulator) the polarity of the battery must be changed, right? You'd switch battery cables and then proceed with polarizing the generator and regulator? I know this should be obvious but if someone could shoot an answer my way it would be much appreciated.
Dennis Nelson
Manassas, VA
TA3074
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Roger G. Morse
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:33 am

Re: YET another question on Pos to Neg on MG TA

Post by Roger G. Morse » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:18 pm

Dennis,

You are right.  Swap the cables.  The negative terminal of the battery connects to the chassis (ground) and the positive terminal connects to the big starter cable.  It is a good idea to get some red electrical tape and wrap the cable to the starter so that it is clear that it is positive and no longer negative.  If the cable to ground is red, then it should be wrapped with black electrical tape. 

 

My best,

Roger

 

[b]Roger G. Morse AIA[/b]

[b]Morse Associates, Inc.[/b]

504 Snake Hill Road

Poestenkill, NY 12140

(518) 283-7671

 

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ian thomson
Posts: 75
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 3:26 am

YET another question on Pos to Neg on MG TA

Post by ian thomson » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:12 am

Without meaning to criticize you Dennis, the only question relevant for me here is Why?.  Leaving aside the question of why the factory chose to make T types positive earth in the first place when previous cars were negative earth, why change something which works?  Many people will cite the addition of modern appliances which come only in negative earth versions but even these work perfectly well if isolated from the metalwork of the car and having a wooden body helps in this regard.  Simply connect the two wires correctly to the car wiring without while insulating the whole setup from the metalwork or, if there is only one power connector, connect the body of the part to the car wiring and the power connection to the car metalwork.  Why make things difficult by having to do all the extra work of reversing polarity and running the risk of confusing future custodians?
No offence meant
Ian Thomson
Notts. UK
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Stephen D Stierman
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 5:04 am

Re: YET another question on Pos to Neg on MG TA

Post by Stephen D Stierman » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:51 am

I have to agree with Ian, no offense intended, but I don't need a nav or CD system in my TC, somehow a road map and the exhaust note seem more in keeping with the theme.Steve TC2911 [b]From:[/b] "ian thomson i.thomson@talk21.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To: Yahoogroups mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, January 11, 2018 5:12 AM [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] YET another question on Pos to Neg on MG TA   Without meaning to criticize you Dennis, the only question relevant for me here is Why?.  Leaving aside the question of why the factory chose to make T types positive earth in the first place when previous cars were negative earth, why change something which works?  Many people will cite the addition of modern appliances which come only in negative earth versions but even these work perfectly well if isolated from the metalwork of the car and having a wooden body helps in this regard.  Simply connect the two wires correctly to the car wiring without while insulating the whole setup from the metalwork or, if there is only one power connector, connect the body of the part to the car wiring and the power connection to the car metalwork.  Why make things difficult by having to do all the extra work of reversing polarity and running the risk of confusing future custodians? No offence meantIan ThomsonNotts. UK #ygrps-yiv-25528423 #ygrps-yiv-25528423yiv8916651353 #ygrps-yiv-25528423yiv8916651353 -- #ygrps-yiv-25528423yiv8916651353ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #ygrps-yiv-25528423 #ygrps-yiv-25528423yiv8916651353 #ygrps-yiv-25528423yiv8916651353ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrps-yiv-25528423 #ygrps-yiv-25528423yiv8916651353 #ygrps-yiv-25528423yiv8916651353ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-25528423yiv8916651353hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #ygrps-yiv-25528423 #ygrps-yiv-25528423yiv8916651353 #ygrps-yiv-25528423yiv8916651353ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-25528423yiv8916651353ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #ygrps-yiv-25528423 #ygrps-yiv-25528423yiv8916651353 #ygrps-yiv-25528423yiv8916651353ygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-25528423yiv8916651353ad { padding:0 0;} #ygrps-yiv-25528423 #ygrps-yiv-25528423yiv8916651353 #ygrps-yiv-25528423yiv8916651353ygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-25528423yiv8916651353ad p { margin:0;} 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Dennis Nelson
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:48 am

Re: YET another question on Pos to Neg on MG TA

Post by Dennis Nelson » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:52 am

No offence taken! Valid points all! You are right that there really is no good reason for doing this but I guess being old, old, old school, negative ground is in my blood!!! But conversely there is little to lose by going negative ground. Really all that needs to be done on a car with no modern gadgets is to reverse the leads on the ammeter. So, thanks everyone! Dennis
On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 5:12 AM, ian thomson i.thomson@talk21.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u] Without meaning to criticize you Dennis, the only question relevant for me here is Why?. Leaving aside the question of why the factory chose to make T types positive earth in the first place when previous cars were negative earth, why change something which works? Many people will cite the addition of modern appliances which come only in negative earth versions but even these work perfectly well if isolated from the metalwork of the car and having a wooden body helps in this regard. Simply connect the two wires correctly to the car wiring without while insulating the whole setup from the metalwork or, if there is only one power connector, connect the body of the part to the car wiring and the power connection to the car metalwork. Why make things difficult by having to do all the extra work of reversing polarity and running the risk of confusing future custodians? No offence meantIan ThomsonNotts. UK
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Stephen D Stierman
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 5:04 am

Re: YET another question on Pos to Neg on MG TA

Post by Stephen D Stierman » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:00 am

I am old and old school also, hence my desire to leave something that has worked for 70 years alone.  You are risking the reversal of the all the good Karma that flowed through the vehicle in that time, sometimes it is best to leave well enough alone.  I am not sure that this is a wise move, tempting fate and such.no offense meant........ Steve TC211, firmly  grounded in a positive fashion [b]From:[/b] "Dennis Nelson dennis.nelson6@gmail.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]To:[/b] "i.thomson@talk21.com" i.thomson@talk21.com> [b]Cc:[/b] Yahoogroups mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, January 11, 2018 7:52 AM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] YET another question on Pos to Neg on MG TA   No offence taken!  Valid points all!  You are right that there really is no good reason for doing this but I guess being old, old, old school, negative ground is in my blood!!!  But conversely there is little to lose by going negative ground.  Really all that needs to be done on a car with no modern gadgets is to reverse the leads on the ammeter.   So, thanks everyone! Dennis  On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 5:12 AM, ian thomson i.thomson@talk21.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
[u][/u]   Without meaning to criticize you Dennis, the only question relevant for me here is Why?.  Leaving aside the question of why the factory chose to make T types positive earth in the first place when previous cars were negative earth, why change something which works?  Many people will cite the addition of modern appliances which come only in negative earth versions but even these work perfectly well if isolated from the metalwork of the car and having a wooden body helps in this regard.  Simply connect the two wires correctly to the car wiring without while insulating the whole setup from the metalwork or, if there is only one power connector, connect the body of the part to the car wiring and the power connection to the car metalwork.  Why make things difficult by having to do all the extra work of reversing polarity and running the risk of confusing future custodians? No offence meantIan ThomsonNotts. UK
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phil smith
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:22 am

Re: YET another question on Pos to Neg on MG TA

Post by phil smith » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:04 am

If you'd just convert the electrics to AC, there would be none of these concerns...... Science is the great antidote to the poison of enthusiasm and superstition ...Adam Smith --------------------------------------------
On Thu, 1/11/18, Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] YET another question on Pos to Neg on MG TA To: "Dennis Nelson" dennis.nelson6@gmail.com>, "i.thomson@talk21.com" i.thomson@talk21.com> Cc: "Yahoogroups" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, January 11, 2018, 8:00 AM I am old and old school also, hence my desire to leave something that has worked for 70 years alone. You are risking the reversal of the all the good Karma that flowed through the vehicle in that time, sometimes it is best to leave well enough alone. I am not sure that this is a wise move, tempting fate and such.no offense meant........ Steve TC211, firmly grounded in a positive fashion From: "Dennis Nelson dennis.nelson6@gmail.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To: "i.thomson@talk21.com" i.thomson@talk21.com> Cc: Yahoogroups mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] YET another question on Pos to Neg on MG TA No offence taken! Valid points all! You are right that there really is no good reason for doing this but I guess being old, old, old school, negative ground is in my blood!!! But conversely there is little to lose by going negative ground. Really all that needs to be done on a car with no modern gadgets is to reverse the leads on the ammeter. So, thanks everyone! Dennis On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 5:12 AM, ian thomson i.thomson@talk21.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Without meaning to criticize you Dennis, the only question relevant for me here is Why?. Leaving aside the question of why the factory chose to make T types positive earth in the first place when previous cars were negative earth, why change something which works? Many people will cite the addition of modern appliances which come only in negative earth versions but even these work perfectly well if isolated from the metalwork of the car and having a wooden body helps in this regard. Simply connect the two wires correctly to the car wiring without while insulating the whole setup from the metalwork or, if there is only one power connector, connect the body of the part to the car wiring and the power connection to the car metalwork. Why make things difficult by having to do all the extra work of reversing polarity and running the risk of confusing future custodians? No offence meantIan ThomsonNotts. 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Dennis Nelson
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:48 am

Re: YET another question on Pos to Neg on MG TA

Post by Dennis Nelson » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:10 am

Uhhhhh . . . . . I tried that but ran out of extension cords on my drive across country!
On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 9:04 AM, phil smith mgpsmith@att.net> wrote: If you'd just convert the electrics to AC, there would be none of these concerns...... Science is the great antidote to the poison of enthusiasm and superstition ...Adam Smith ------------------------------ -------------- On Thu, 1/11/18, Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] YET another question on Pos to Neg on MG TA To: "Dennis Nelson" dennis.nelson6@gmail.com>, "i.thomson@talk21.com" i.thomson@talk21.com> Cc: "Yahoogroups" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, January 11, 2018, 8:00 AM I am old and old school also, hence my desire to leave something that has worked for 70 years alone. You are risking the reversal of the all the good Karma that flowed through the vehicle in that time, sometimes it is best to leave well enough alone. I am not sure that this is a wise move, tempting fate and such.no offense meant........ Steve TC211, firmly grounded in a positive fashion From: "Dennis Nelson dennis.nelson6@gmail.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To: "i.thomson@talk21.com" i.thomson@talk21.com> Cc: Yahoogroups mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] YET another question on Pos to Neg on MG TA No offence taken! Valid points all! You are right that there really is no good reason for doing this but I guess being old, old, old school, negative ground is in my blood!!! But conversely there is little to lose by going negative ground. Really all that needs to be done on a car with no modern gadgets is to reverse the leads on the ammeter. So, thanks everyone! Dennis On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 5:12 AM, ian thomson i.thomson@talk21.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Without meaning to criticize you Dennis, the only question relevant for me here is Why?. Leaving aside the question of why the factory chose to make T types positive earth in the first place when previous cars were negative earth, why change something which works? Many people will cite the addition of modern appliances which come only in negative earth versions but even these work perfectly well if isolated from the metalwork of the car and having a wooden body helps in this regard. Simply connect the two wires correctly to the car wiring without while insulating the whole setup from the metalwork or, if there is only one power connector, connect the body of the part to the car wiring and the power connection to the car metalwork. Why make things difficult by having to do all the extra work of reversing polarity and running the risk of confusing future custodians? No offence meantIan ThomsonNotts. 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Mike Inglehearn
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:21 am

Re: YET another question on Pos to Neg on MG TA

Post by Mike Inglehearn » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:21 am

Hi IanAccording to the Lucas Technical Service Overseas Training Course manual page 5 of Section 6 (Vehicle Wiring), British vehicles were changed around 1936 from negative to positive earth as "certain specific advantages were found", some of the main ones being improved sparkplug performance from the central electrode being made negative, and the formation of electrolytic sulphation at the battery positive terminal also corrosion of switch contacts and connectors was reduced. I read that the change back to negative earth followed the use of PVC covered wiring which was less prone to damp than the cloth & rubber covering of the old wire. RegardsMikeTB0457(Still positive earth) From: "ian thomson i.thomson@talk21.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To: Yahoogroups mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, 11 January 2018, 11:12 [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] YET another question on Pos to Neg on MG TA   Without meaning to criticize you Dennis, the only question relevant for me here is Why?.  Leaving aside the question of why the factory chose to make T types positive earth in the first place when previous cars were negative earth, why change something which works?  Many people will cite the addition of modern appliances which come only in negative earth versions but even these work perfectly well if isolated from the metalwork of the car and having a wooden body helps in this regard.  Simply connect the two wires correctly to the car wiring without while insulating the whole setup from the metalwork or, if there is only one power connector, connect the body of the part to the car wiring and the power connection to the car metalwork.  Why make things difficult by having to do all the extra work of reversing polarity and running the risk of confusing future custodians? No offence meantIan ThomsonNotts. 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ian thomson
Posts: 75
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 3:26 am

Re: YET another question on Pos to Neg on MG TA

Post by ian thomson » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:25 am

Very interesting Mike.  I suspect, however, that the reasons for the change were/are somewhat suspect.  I suppose I can understand the spark plug electrode argument as electrical current is the movement of electrons which are negatively charged.  As in a thermionic valve they are emitted more easily from the hottest point which is why old fashioned valves and cathode ray tube as used in old televisions had a heater next to the negatively charged cathode.  The centre electrode in a value is the hottest point and thus should be negative for best operation.  I know this is often cited as being important when connecting coils which are marked CB and something else which escapes me at the moment rather than just plain pos and neg.  Incidentally this is claimed to be important when changing the overall polarity also.  The claim is that although it still works, if you only change the ammeter and not the coil it will not be as good.  I suppose that the onward march of technology overcame these marginal advantages but it doesn't explain why they changed back to negative earth.   As for the battery sulphation I can't see that at all as as far as the battery is concerned nothing has actually changed as current still flows through it in the same direction.  The change to pvc covered cabling just sounds like nonsense thought up be some publicity department.RegardsIan ThomsonNotts. UK.
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 at 15:21, MIKE INGLEHEARNmingle54@btinternet.com> wrote: Hi IanAccording to the Lucas Technical Service Overseas Training Course manual page 5 of Section 6 (Vehicle Wiring), British vehicles were changed around 1936 from negative to positive earth as "certain specific advantages were found", some of the main ones being improved sparkplug performance from the central electrode being made negative, and the formation of electrolytic sulphation at the battery positive terminal also corrosion of switch contacts and connectors was reduced. I read that the change back to negative earth followed the use of PVC covered wiring which was less prone to damp than the cloth & rubber covering of the old wire. RegardsMikeTB0457(Still positive earth) From: "ian thomson i.thomson@talk21.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To: Yahoogroups mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, 11 January 2018, 11:12 [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] YET another question on Pos to Neg on MG TA   Without meaning to criticize you Dennis, the only question relevant for me here is Why?.  Leaving aside the question of why the factory chose to make T types positive earth in the first place when previous cars were negative earth, why change something which works?  Many people will cite the addition of modern appliances which come only in negative earth versions but even these work perfectly well if isolated from the metalwork of the car and having a wooden body helps in this regard.  Simply connect the two wires correctly to the car wiring without while insulating the whole setup from the metalwork or, if there is only one power connector, connect the body of the part to the car wiring and the power connection to the car metalwork.  Why make things difficult by having to do all the extra work of reversing polarity and running the risk of confusing future custodians? No offence meantIan ThomsonNotts. 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