XPAG engine numbers

[rogerbateman@rocketmail.com]

I am sure this topic has already been aired on this forum but the feeble search facility does not find it. I understand that the engine number is stamped into the crankcase somewhere in the region of the octagonal brass plate, as per the pics on FTFU.  My engine is out of the car at present so I thought I'd have a go at finding it. I have removed the paint below the octagonal plate but found nothing.  Before I strip the whole crankcase (!), are there any specific places I should look? Many thanks, Roger Bateman TC2456, Dorset UK

[motionwear]

Roger, two places to look:

Early TC engines (I don't know when the change occurred) had the last two digits of the engine number stamped on the outside edge of the core plug opening at the back of the block.  It was changed to a smaller size stamped number typically underneath the octagon number plate.

At leas that's what I've found; those with more experience than me can be more specific.

Tom Wilson

[D&J Edgar]

We all seem to know the various MG models (at least the T Types) all started with 0251 after the factory telephone number. But what about engine numbers? TBs which used the XPAG engines, had TB 0251 listed with XPAG 501. Engine numbers were in the 900s by the time the TCs were out. So did engine model numbers start with 501 in numbering and if so was there any significance to that number? Or did any other MG use the XPAG engine before the TBs? Just curious. David Edgar, TC 5108 with XPAG 5801

[Dick Little]

Maybe it was decided to dis-associate car numbers with engine numbers to make production lines flow more smoothly. MG might simply have doubled #250 to 500 and added 1 to match chassis 251. Thus, if an engine were bad at start-up, another engine from the line could be introduced without skewing any relationship. Just a suggestion to your interesting question. I don't think XPAGs preceded the TB series. I think the engine was developed for the TB. At least, I haven't heard of any prior use. Dick Little, TA1326

On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 4:15 PM, D&J Edgar djedgar@pacbell.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u] We all seem to know the various MG models (at least the T Types) all started with 0251 after the factory telephone number. But what about engine numbers? TBs which used the XPAG engines, had TB 0251 listed with XPAG 501. Engine numbers were in the 900s by the time the TCs were out. So did engine model numbers start with 501 in numbering and if so was there any significance to that number? Or did any other MG use the XPAG engine before the TBs? Just curious. David Edgar, TC 5108 with XPAG 5801

[stewart]

According to the factory build list, the engine numbers for the TC followed on from the TB. The last TB (TB0629) had XPAG 882. TC 0251 was fitted with XPAG 1163, but 0252 had XPAG 884, 0253 had 885 and so on until presumably all the TB engines in stock were used up.

 

Stewart Penfound,

MGCC T Register TABC Registrar,

Brighton

TA2146

Lester H0031

 

 

[Roger Furneaux]

TC0251 on the build list was noted as "EXPERIMENTAL CAR REF MG/21", whatever that means. It was given XPAG 6946-1, which was replaced by XPAG 1163, which was originally fitted to TC0525 on 8th. March 1946. Some engine changes arte noted, maybe they were changed under guarantee, but not this one. The mystery deepens! Roger TC0978 TC2365 MGBGTV8 On 26/01/2018 12:43, 'Stewart' Stewart.Penfound@btinternet.com [mg-tabc] wrote:

According to the factory build list, the engine numbers for the TC followed on from the TB. The last TB (TB0629) had XPAG 882. TC 0251 was fitted with XPAG 1163, but 0252 had XPAG 884, 0253 had 885 and so on until presumably all the TB engines in stock were used up. Stewart Penfound, MGCC T Register TABC Registrar, Brighton TA2146 Lester H0031

[D&J Edgar]

I have had several replies on the XPAG engine numbers. No theory on significance so far as to why XPAG engine numbering started at or around 501 and the main reason for starting this discussion. While chassis numbers were pretty much in sequential order (maybe due to having frame stamped in order at beginning of production line), engines were stored and were grabbed at random to go into various chassis, so no orderly sequence there. TBs generally had engine numbers in the neighborhood of 250 higher than the chassis numbers and TCs had engine numbers in the neighborhood of 500 higher than the chassis number to start with (since TC chassis numbers started at 251 again) and were generally 700 above as the years went by. Just spot checking, I observed TC chassis numbers that were just a couple apart with engine numbers about 90 apart. I am sure some assembled engines were sold separate from a chassis or went for testing or something as well. As I understand it, the engines were built elsewhere and delivered to the production line in batches. If engines were numbered at the engine plant, then engines could be jumbled about as they were first stored, then as they were transported, then as they were delivered and then as they were picked to go into a chassis. No orderly sequence was observed. David Edgar, TC 5108 and XPAG 5801 (so 693 apart)

> On Jan 26, 2018, at 3:12 AM, CLIVE SHERRIFF csherriff99@gmail.com> wrote: > > Dave, > > The TB XPAG was of course simply a bored out development of the Morris 10hp engine, which was already in use in the Morris range. (still without a timing chain tensioner which was fitted to the TC TD etc.) > > It does seem that the TBs started with 501 and that there was no specific serial relationship between engine number sequence and chassis number sequence other than that both increased roughly in line with production. > > So > TB263 had engine number 558 > TB264 had engine number 559 > TB265 had engine number 561 > TB266 had engine number 563 > TB269 had engine number 567 > TB292 had engine number 514 > TB309 had engine number 534 (Tickford by Salmons) > TB310 had engine number 537 (Tickford by Salmons) > TB311 had engine number 538 (Tickford by Salmons) > TB312 had engine number 540 (Tickford by Salmons) > TB315 had engine number 591 (Tickford by Salmons) > TB331 had engine number 594 (Tickford by Salmons) > TB334 had engine number 575 (Tickford by Salmons) > TB335 had engine number 576 (Tickford by Salmons) > TB336 had engine number 578 (Tickford by Salmons) > TB465 had engine number 718 (Tickford by Salmons) > TB469 had engine number 726 (Tickford by Salmons) > TB487 had engine number 745 (This is my car and still has that engine) > TB556 had engine number 805 > TB563 had engine number 770 > > Etc. Etc... > > So whilst roughly comparable in engine number series, clearly some engines maybe taken off the line for quality reasons or some such reasons, and maybe used on later chassis numbers. > > There is NO engine with a number less than 501 so I guess that's were they started. > > Clive >