Car identification plates - CORRECTION

[rogerbateman@rocketmail.com]

Attachments :

I have to correct some misinformation I gave in my last post on this subject:  THERE ARE ONLY 2 DIFFERENT PATTERNS OF MAKER S GUARANTEE AND PATENTS PLATES. They can be described as early and late patterns and Doug Pelton gives some guidance on the changeover on his FTFU website.

There two original patterns of maker s plate and the significant difference is that the phrase change oil every 1500 miles is only on the early one (picture attached).  They can also have additional stampings to indicate EXU or CKD.

The patents plates differ in the number of patents mentioned - early 24 and late 11 and always in capital letters.

My car, TC2456, has reproduction items fitted (also illustrated) that I now know for a fact have been available in this style for at least 40 years.  This same pattern is still being sold by leading MG specialists.  Why should someone go to the trouble of making repro plates that differ from the originals?  My theory is that they were made while the originals were still in the 50 year copyright period and so the repro design is a pastiche to get around this.

Roger Bateman

Dorset UK

[Peter Cole]

Hi Roger, It is interesting to see your post on identification plates. My car (TC3040, June 1947) has a later plate, so concurs with the information provided by Doug. Whilst on the subject it is also interesting to see the different finishes in your photos. I would suggest that the original finish is what watch and clock makers refer to as 'silvering solution'. This is a electroless chemical solution that is applied with either a brush or rag which deposits a mat 'silver' finish on brass. The letters were then filled with shellac or paint, just like clock makers have done for centuries. I do not believe the plates were ever electroplated. The brass plates we see on most cars today is a result of repeated polishing because the original silver finish tarnishes readily and is not durable. The early plate you have attached is typical of a plate where the silver is well on the way to being polished away, with the brass readily showing through. Can anyone confirm or deny my suggestion? Regards Peter Cole.

On 17 November 2017 at 13:14, rogerbateman@rocketmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u] I have to correct some misinformation I gave in my last post on this subject: THERE ARE ONLY 2 DIFFERENT PATTERNS OF MAKER S GUARANTEE AND PATENTS PLATES. They can be described as early and late patterns and Doug Pelton gives some guidance on the changeover on his FTFU website.

There two original patterns of maker s plate and the significant difference is that the phrase change oil every 1500 miles is only on the early one (picture attached). They can also have additional stampings to indicate EXU or CKD.

The patents plates differ in the number of patents mentioned - early 24 and late 11 and always in capital letters.

My car, TC2456, has reproduction items fitted (also illustrated) that I now know for a fact have been available in this style for at least 40 years. This same pattern is still being sold by leading MG specialists. Why should someone go to the trouble of making repro plates that differ from the originals? My theory is that they were made while the originals were still in the 50 year copyright period and so the repro design is a pastiche to get around this.

Roger Bateman

Dorset UK

[MERLIN GARAGES]

Hi have had a rant at this before.   Moss could not be bothered to make 2 "original " plates.   They made a combination of a TC plate and a TD plate and sold it as being original to both species.   I am sick to death of this original is as far as i am concerned as it left the factory.   If MG owners have problems try restoring a David Brown Tractor i have never seen such "original" Chinese crap ever.   David Darrell TA0455 UK         [b]From:[/b] rogerbateman@rocketmail.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] Friday, November 17, 2017 1:14 PM [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Car identification plates - CORRECTION   I have to correct some misinformation I gave in my last post on this subject:  THERE ARE ONLY 2 DIFFERENT PATTERNS OF MAKER S GUARANTEE AND PATENTS PLATES. They can be described as early and late patterns and Doug Pelton gives some guidance on the changeover on his FTFU website. There two original patterns of maker s plate and the significant difference is that the phrase change oil every 1500 miles is only on the early one (picture attached).  They can also have additional stampings to indicate EXU or CKD.

The patents plates differ in the number of patents mentioned - early 24 and late 11 and always in capital letters.

My car, TC2456, has reproduction items fitted (also illustrated) that I now know for a fact have been available in this style for at least 40 years.  This same pattern is still being sold by leading MG specialists.  Why should someone go to the trouble of making repro plates that differ from the originals?  My theory is that they were made while the originals were still in the 50 year copyright period and so the repro design is a pastiche to get around this.

Roger Bateman

Dorset UK

[motionwear]

Peter, Maker plates had the etched lettering filled in with black paint.  Patent plates were reverse, with the lettering background painted.   Then the plates were laid on a tray and dipped into a plating tank  for a flash plating - the " chrome" process, but without the polishing. 

Many original plates I've seen have some of the plating on the back where plating didn't occur where in contact with the tray.

Over the years either polishing or corrosion typically erodes the plating back to the bare brass.

Restoring an original correctly involves stripping, cleaning, filling in the lettering with black (but not the stamped chassis or engine numbers), then having the plate flash bright nickel or chrome plated.  Plating happens last because the paint won't adhere long term to a plated surface.  It can be difficult to find a plater who will do this with the black paint on already.

Tom Wilson

[Duncan]

Attachments :

[*][url=file:///C:\Users\Steve\AppData\Local\PG Offline 4\Attachments\\fake]fake[/url]

Who can spot what is wrong with this clever reproduction Makers Plate? ----------------------------------------

On Fri, 11/17/17, 'Merlin Garages' merlingarages@gmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Car identification plates - CORRECTION To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 17, 2017, 12:41 PM Hi have had a rant at this before. Moss could not be bothered to make 2 "original " plates. They made a combination of a TC plate and a TD plate and sold it as being original to both species. I am sick to death of this original is as far as i am concerned as it left the factory. If MG owners have problems try restoring a David Brown Tractor i have never seen such "original" Chinese crap ever. David Darrell TA0455 UK

[Duncan]

Or go to the link below and look at the second picture showing a clever reproduction TC makers plate. See what is wrong? http://www.waimakclassiccars.co.nz/cars/299-MG-TC-MIDGET.html --------------------------------------------

On Fri, 11/17/17, 'Merlin Garages' merlingarages@gmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Car identification plates - CORRECTION To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 17, 2017, 12:41 PM Hi have had a rant at this before. Moss could not be bothered to make 2 "original " plates. They made a combination of a TC plate and a TD plate and sold it as being original to both species. I am sick to death of this original is as far as i am concerned as it left the factory. If MG owners have problems try restoring a David Brown Tractor i have never seen such "original" Chinese crap ever. David Darrell TA0455 UK From: rogerbateman@rocketmail.com [mg-tabc] Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 1:14 PM To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Subject: [mg-tabc] Car identification plates - CORRECTION I have to correct some misinformation I gave in my last post on this subject: THERE ARE ONLY 2 DIFFERENT PATTERNS OF MAKER S GUARANTEE AND PATENTS PLATES. They can be described as early and late patterns and Doug Pelton gives some guidance on the changeover on his FTFU website. There two original patterns of maker s plate and the significant difference is that the phrase change oil every 1500 miles is only on the early one (picture attached). They can also have additional stampings to indicate EXU or CKD. The patents plates differ in the number of patents mentioned - early 24 and late 11 and always in capital letters. My car, TC2456, has reproduction items fitted (also illustrated) that I now know for a fact have been available in this style for at least 40 years. This same pattern is still being sold by leading MG specialists. Why should someone go to the trouble of making repro plates that differ from the originals? My theory is that they were made while the originals were still in the 50 year copyright period and so the repro design is a pastiche to get around this. Roger Bateman Dorset UK Posted by: "Merlin Garages" merlingarages@gmail.com> Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3) Have you tried the highest rated email app? With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage. Visit Your Group New Members 1 Privacy Unsubscribe Terms of Use .

[John Boocock]

The only difference that I can see between that plate and the one on my car is the two dots under TD in Ltd.

 

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Duncan morelists@yahoo.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] 18 November 2017 04:28 [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Car identification plates - CORRECTION

 

 

Or go to the link below and look at the second picture showing a clever reproduction TC makers plate. See what is wrong? http://www.waimakclassiccars.co.nz/cars/299-MG-TC-MIDGET.html --------------------------------------------

On Fri, 11/17/17, 'Merlin Garages' merlingarages@gmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Car identification plates - CORRECTION To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 17, 2017, 12:41 PM   Hi have had a rant at this before.   Moss could not be bothered to make 2 "original " plates.   They made a combination of a TC plate and a TD plate and sold it as being original to both species.   I am sick to death of this original is as far as i am concerned as it left the factory.   If MG owners have problems try restoring a David Brown Tractor i have never seen such "original" Chinese crap ever.   David Darrell TA0455 UK         From: rogerbateman@rocketmail.com [mg-tabc] Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 1:14 PM To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Subject: [mg-tabc] Car identification plates - CORRECTION   I have to correct some misinformation I gave in my last post on this subject:  THERE ARE ONLY 2 DIFFERENT PATTERNS OF MAKER S GUARANTEE AND PATENTS PLATES. They can be described as early and late patterns and Doug Pelton gives some guidance on the changeover on his FTFU website. There two original patterns of maker s plate and the significant difference is that the phrase change oil every 1500 miles is only on the early one (picture attached).  They can also have additional stampings to indicate EXU or CKD. The patents plates differ in the number of patents mentioned - early 24 and late 11 and always in capital letters. My car, TC2456, has reproduction items fitted (also illustrated) that I now know for a fact have been available in this style for at least 40 years.  This same pattern is still being sold by leading MG specialists.  Why should someone go to the trouble of making repro plates that differ from the originals?  My theory is that they were made while the originals were still in the 50 year copyright period and so the repro design is a pastiche to get around this. Roger Bateman Dorset UK Posted by: "Merlin Garages" merlingarages@gmail.com> Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3) Have you tried the highest rated email app? With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage. Visit Your Group New Members 1 Privacy Unsubscribe Terms of Use .

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[Roger Bateman]

The 2 dots are correct.

Is it that the TC is hand stamped rather than by machine?

Roger

[Duncan]

Yes, that it it. The " MG/ " before the chassis number should be a part of the machine pressing of the plate, and not hand stamped. IF either of the two makers plates shown on Doug's site are reproduction, they appear perfect. One plate shows his own plate for his EXU. My EXU has the original plate, and the EXU designation was done in a different (hand stamp) format than his was done. No doubt there were slightly different (hand stamp) formats that were acceptable at the factory. Duncan- --------------------------------------------

On Sat, 11/18/17, Roger Bateman rogerbateman@rocketmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Car identification plates - CORRECTION To: "mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Date: Saturday, November 18, 2017, 5:49 AM The 2 dots are correct. Is it that the TC is hand stamped rather than by machine? Roger Posted by: Roger Bateman rogerbateman@rocketmail.com> Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (8) Have you tried the highest rated email app? With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage. Visit Your Group Privacy Unsubscribe Terms of Use .

[motionwear]

Jack Sparrow in Finishing and Delivry (no relation to the pirate) was the person responsible for stamping the plates for each car during the 1945-53 era.  He had helpers who then attached them to the battery box.

Jack can be seen in the factory photos taken in early 1946 of the lineup of TC police cars being delivered in early 1946.  He was a long time MG employee.

Another piece of MG trivia from my archives.

Tom Wilson