Re: Rear Hub Nuts

[Roger Furneaux]

hi Guys - I have only just caught up with the emails about the Rear Hub Bearing Nuts c/w Integral Lip-Seals, so to clear up a few misconceptions, here are the facts: In the TA parts list, the hub nuts are shown as Hexagonal, and they were 1 1/4" BSW size, of 2.050" AF (=52.07mm). They are now very rare (although I have a few) because they were replaced later by the slotted ones which most cars have on now. A special tubular spanner was needed which engaged with the slots, but as only MG workshops had them, owners had to resort to using a drift, or worse, a cold-chisel. This resulted in major distortion of the nuts, and probably shards of metal going into the bearings, especially when it was not realised that N/S (L/H side) nut had a Left Hand thread. How many owners actually [b]tightened[/b] them before realising? The oil-return scroll bushes in the ends of the axle casing are only partly effective, even when new, and for that reason the hubs were required to be filled with Castrol "Heavy Grease", by using the grease nipples behind the spinners. However, this grease has been unavailable for many years, and indeed hubs made in England likewise have had no grease nipples for years. Even those with them (as still supplied by Moss) have probably been filled with the much lighter Chassis Grease, which does not form much of a barrier to leaking EP140 diff. oil. Indeed, combined with over-filling with the grease-gun, it usually led to a hub full of black oil, streaks along the spokes, and of course saturated brake linings... For these reasons, many years ago I designed Hexagonal Hub Nuts which are 1/4" wider than original to incorporate a double-lipped nitrile-rubber seals. Now the half-shaft splines protrude from the inside of the hubs, often by 1/2" or more, so I made sleeves from stainless steel tubing which are glued (Araldite or JB weld) over the splines for the seals to run on. The scrolls should be removed because the seals need oil to stop them running hot. Now, although the bearing journal is 40mm diameter, the thread for the nuts is [b]NOT[/b] 40mm - it is 1 9/16" (39.69mm) x 16tpi and is a size commonly used on British cars (fully in the spirit of "Mad Metrics" of mixing metric and Imperial threads and spanner sizes!). Incidently, the MGA was still using the same thread, but the nuts were [b]octagonal[/b] - go figure! When I started making them, the 1 9/16" bar stock was available, and so were 1 1/4" BSW sockets: however, in the rest of the world, only 50mm or 2"AF were found (52mm was never an ISO metric size), so I went down to 50mm AF. This is what Moss are referring to. I have supplied many hundreds of these nuts over the years, to NTG and Octagon Club in the UK, and also to FromTheFrameUp. Most recently I have supplied them to Moss. The only problem reported has been that they won't screw on, always as a result of damage to the axle threads: I have over-size nuts which usually solve the problem (for really bad threads, either use a thread-restoring file or fit new axle ends, which I now stock). Many people have had the same seals for several years without leaks (the record is 15!) although I recommend changing them every 5000 miles). The numbers on the seals, 175-112-25 are the inch dimensions (not metric!) 1 3/4" OD, 1 1/8" ID and 1/4" wide: the ones I supply are nitrile rubber, made in Taiwan, and are marked "TC" (probably means double-lip in Taiwanese!). Chicago Rawhide probably have an equivalent (although do they still use hide?). Hopefully this will make things clear (it not, I'm sure you will say so!) oc[b]T[/b]agonally Roger Devon Olde England

[John Kallend]

I installed Roger's sealed nuts about 10 years ago. Completely solved my leaky hub problem. The rear brakes actually work now. Great nuts, Roger! _____________________________John KallendProfessor EmeritusDepartment of Mechanical, Materials and Aerospace EngineeringDepartment of PhysicsIIT, Chicago

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 6:19 PM, Roger Furneaux roger.46tc@gmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u] hi Guys - I have only just caught up with the emails about the Rear Hub Bearing Nuts c/w Integral Lip-Seals, so to clear up a few misconceptions, here are the facts: In the TA parts list, the hub nuts are shown as Hexagonal, and they were 1 1/4" BSW size, of 2.050" AF (=52.07mm). They are now very rare (although I have a few) because they were replaced later by the slotted ones which most cars have on now. A special tubular spanner was needed which engaged with the slots, but as only MG workshops had them, owners had to resort to using a drift, or worse, a cold-chisel. This resulted in major distortion of the nuts, and probably shards of metal going into the bearings, especially when it was not realised that N/S (L/H side) nut had a Left Hand thread. How many owners actually [b]tightened[/b] them before realising? The oil-return scroll bushes in the ends of the axle casing are only partly effective, even when new, and for that reason the hubs were required to be filled with Castrol "Heavy Grease", by using the grease nipples behind the spinners. However, this grease has been unavailable for many years, and indeed hubs made in England likewise have had no grease nipples for years. Even those with them (as still supplied by Moss) have probably been filled with the much lighter Chassis Grease, which does not form much of a barrier to leaking EP140 diff. oil. Indeed, combined with over-filling with the grease-gun, it usually led to a hub full of black oil, streaks along the spokes, and of course saturated brake linings... For these reasons, many years ago I designed Hexagonal Hub Nuts which are 1/4" wider than original to incorporate a double-lipped nitrile-rubber seals. Now the half-shaft splines protrude from the inside of the hubs, often by 1/2" or more, so I made sleeves from stainless steel tubing which are glued (Araldite or JB weld) over the splines for the seals to run on. The scrolls should be removed because the seals need oil to stop them running hot. Now, although the bearing journal is 40mm diameter, the thread for the nuts is [b]NOT[/b] 40mm - it is 1 9/16" (39.69mm) x 16tpi and is a size commonly used on British cars (fully in the spirit of "Mad Metrics" of mixing metric and Imperial threads and spanner sizes!). Incidently, the MGA was still using the same thread, but the nuts were [b]octagonal[/b] - go figure! When I started making them, the 1 9/16" bar stock was available, and so were 1 1/4" BSW sockets: however, in the rest of the world, only 50mm or 2"AF were found (52mm was never an ISO metric size), so I went down to 50mm AF. This is what Moss are referring to. I have supplied many hundreds of these nuts over the years, to NTG and Octagon Club in the UK, and also to FromTheFrameUp. Most recently I have supplied them to Moss. The only problem reported has been that they won't screw on, always as a result of damage to the axle threads: I have over-size nuts which usually solve the problem (for really bad threads, either use a thread-restoring file or fit new axle ends, which I now stock). Many people have had the same seals for several years without leaks (the record is 15!) although I recommend changing them every 5000 miles). The numbers on the seals, 175-112-25 are the inch dimensions (not metric!) 1 3/4" OD, 1 1/8" ID and 1/4" wide: the ones I supply are nitrile rubber, made in Taiwan, and are marked "TC" (probably means double-lip in Taiwanese!). Chicago Rawhide probably have an equivalent (although do they still use hide?). Hopefully this will make things clear (it not, I'm sure you will say so!) oc[b]T[/b]agonally Roger Devon Olde England

[Bob Grunau]

I also sell the 2 rear axle hex seal nut which incorporates an SKF 1 ID seal to run directly on my new tapered half shafts and new rear hubs which incorporate a key for positive drive. The axle shaft and hub must act as a single piece, any looseness in the joint will allow flexing and oil leakage to the rear brakes.

 

Email or phone for details of the seal nuts and new shafts/hubs as well as other T Type parts.

Bob

 

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]John Kallend kallend@iit.edu [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, September 27, 2017 7:31 PM [b]To:[/b] Roger Furneaux [b]Cc:[/b] MG-TABC List [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Rear Hub Nuts

 

 

I installed Roger's sealed nuts about 10 years ago.  Completely solved my leaky hub problem.  The rear brakes actually work now.

 

Great nuts, Roger!

_____________________________

John Kallend

Professor Emeritus

Department of Mechanical, Materials and Aerospace Engineering

Department of Physics

IIT, Chicago

 

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 6:19 PM, Roger Furneaux roger.46tc@gmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

hi Guys - I have only just caught up with the emails about the Rear Hub Bearing Nuts c/w Integral Lip-Seals, so to clear up a few misconceptions, here are the facts:

 

In the TA parts list, the hub nuts are shown as Hexagonal, and they were 1 1/4" BSW size, of 2.050" AF (=52.07mm). They are now very rare (although I have a few) because they were replaced later by the slotted ones which most cars have on now. A special tubular spanner was needed which engaged with the slots, but as only MG workshops had them, owners had to resort to using a drift, or worse, a cold-chisel. This resulted in major distortion of the nuts, and probably shards of metal going into the bearings, especially when it was not realised that N/S (L/H side) nut had a Left Hand thread. How many owners actually [b]tightened[/b] them before realising?

 

The oil-return scroll bushes in the ends of the axle casing are only partly effective, even when new, and for that reason the hubs were required to be filled with Castrol "Heavy Grease", by using the grease nipples behind the spinners. However, this grease has been unavailable for many years, and indeed hubs made in England likewise have had no grease nipples for years. Even those with them (as still supplied  by Moss) have probably been filled with the much lighter Chassis Grease, which does not form much of a barrier to leaking EP140 diff. oil. Indeed, combined with over-filling with the grease-gun, it usually led to a hub full of black oil, streaks along the spokes, and of course saturated brake linings...

 

For these reasons, many years ago I designed Hexagonal Hub Nuts which are 1/4" wider than original to incorporate a double-lipped nitrile-rubber seals. Now the half-shaft splines protrude from the inside of the hubs, often by 1/2" or more, so I made sleeves from stainless steel tubing which are glued (Araldite or JB weld) over the splines for the seals to run on. The scrolls should be removed because the seals need oil to stop them running hot.

 

Now, although the bearing journal is 40mm diameter, the thread for the nuts is [b]NOT[/b] 40mm - it is 1 9/16" (39.69mm) x 16tpi and is a size commonly used on British cars (fully in the spirit of "Mad Metrics" of mixing metric and Imperial threads and spanner sizes!). Incidently, the MGA was still using the same thread, but the nuts were [b]octagonal[/b] - go figure!

 

When I started making them, the 1 9/16" bar stock was available, and so were 1 1/4" BSW sockets: however, in the rest of the world, only 50mm or 2"AF were found (52mm was never an ISO metric size), so I went down to 50mm AF. This is what Moss are referring to.

 

I have supplied many hundreds of these nuts over the years, to NTG and Octagon Club in the UK, and also to FromTheFrameUp. Most recently I have supplied them to Moss. The only problem reported has been that they won't screw on, always as a result of damage to the axle threads: I have over-size nuts which usually solve the problem (for really bad threads, either use a thread-restoring file or fit new axle ends, which I now stock). Many people have had the same seals for several years without leaks (the record is 15!) although I recommend changing them every 5000 miles). 

 

The  numbers on the seals, 175-112-25 are the inch dimensions (not metric!) 1 3/4" OD, 1 1/8" ID and 1/4" wide: the ones I supply are nitrile rubber, made in Taiwan, and are marked "TC" (probably means double-lip in Taiwanese!). Chicago Rawhide probably have an equivalent (although do they still use hide?).

 

Hopefully this will make things clear (it not, I'm sure you will say so!)

 

oc[b]T[/b]agonally

 

Roger

 

[Madhu Paroor]

Hi Roger, Thanks for the explanation. I was wondering abut your absence. This is what happens when the master left the rest in dark. regards madhu 2017-09-28 1:19 GMT+02:00 Roger Furneaux roger.46tc@gmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com>:

[u][/u] hi Guys - I have only just caught up with the emails about the Rear Hub Bearing Nuts c/w Integral Lip-Seals, so to clear up a few misconceptions, here are the facts: In the TA parts list, the hub nuts are shown as Hexagonal, and they were 1 1/4" BSW size, of 2.050" AF (=52.07mm). They are now very rare (although I have a few) because they were replaced later by the slotted ones which most cars have on now. A special tubular spanner was needed which engaged with the slots, but as only MG workshops had them, owners had to resort to using a drift, or worse, a cold-chisel. This resulted in major distortion of the nuts, and probably shards of metal going into the bearings, especially when it was not realised that N/S (L/H side) nut had a Left Hand thread. How many owners actually [b]tightened[/b] them before realising? The oil-return scroll bushes in the ends of the axle casing are only partly effective, even when new, and for that reason the hubs were required to be filled with Castrol "Heavy Grease", by using the grease nipples behind the spinners. However, this grease has been unavailable for many years, and indeed hubs made in England likewise have had no grease nipples for years. Even those with them (as still supplied by Moss) have probably been filled with the much lighter Chassis Grease, which does not form much of a barrier to leaking EP140 diff. oil. Indeed, combined with over-filling with the grease-gun, it usually led to a hub full of black oil, streaks along the spokes, and of course saturated brake linings... For these reasons, many years ago I designed Hexagonal Hub Nuts which are 1/4" wider than original to incorporate a double-lipped nitrile-rubber seals. Now the half-shaft splines protrude from the inside of the hubs, often by 1/2" or more, so I made sleeves from stainless steel tubing which are glued (Araldite or JB weld) over the splines for the seals to run on. The scrolls should be removed because the seals need oil to stop them running hot. Now, although the bearing journal is 40mm diameter, the thread for the nuts is [b]NOT[/b] 40mm - it is 1 9/16" (39.69mm) x 16tpi and is a size commonly used on British cars (fully in the spirit of "Mad Metrics" of mixing metric and Imperial threads and spanner sizes!). Incidently, the MGA was still using the same thread, but the nuts were [b]octagonal[/b] - go figure! When I started making them, the 1 9/16" bar stock was available, and so were 1 1/4" BSW sockets: however, in the rest of the world, only 50mm or 2"AF were found (52mm was never an ISO metric size), so I went down to 50mm AF. This is what Moss are referring to. I have supplied many hundreds of these nuts over the years, to NTG and Octagon Club in the UK, and also to FromTheFrameUp. Most recently I have supplied them to Moss. The only problem reported has been that they won't screw on, always as a result of damage to the axle threads: I have over-size nuts which usually solve the problem (for really bad threads, either use a thread-restoring file or fit new axle ends, which I now stock). Many people have had the same seals for several years without leaks (the record is 15!) although I recommend changing them every 5000 miles). The numbers on the seals, 175-112-25 are the inch dimensions (not metric!) 1 3/4" OD, 1 1/8" ID and 1/4" wide: the ones I supply are nitrile rubber, made in Taiwan, and are marked "TC" (probably means double-lip in Taiwanese!). Chicago Rawhide probably have an equivalent (although do they still use hide?). Hopefully this will make things clear (it not, I'm sure you will say so!) oc[b]T[/b]agonally Roger Devon Olde England

[Roger Furneaux]

Thanks for the product endorsement John, but was it really 10 years ago! Since Bob has taken the opportunity to plug his wares, I should add that a lot of my stuff is on eBay (search for MGTB) but better to email me for a new list. Recently I have had made a batch of handbrake quadrants & pawls. Bob is quite right to say that the shaft/hub interface must be absolutely solid, something not really achieved with splines. Once they get even slightly loose, the hub rocks on the shaft and they often break where they enter the hub, or even just inside it. For this reason I designed taper-fit shafts over 25 years ago (and unknown to me, Phil Marino in California did likewise. My shaft are now even stronger because they have an extended boss for the seals to run on (so they are 1 1/8" diameter, the same as the sleeves required for splined shafts). oc[b]T[/b]agonally Roger

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:09 AM, Bob Grunau grunau.garage@sympatico.ca> wrote: I also sell the 2 rear axle hex seal nut which incorporates an SKF 1 ID seal to run directly on my new tapered half shafts and new rear hubs which incorporate a key for positive drive. The axle shaft and hub must act as a single piece, any looseness in the joint will allow flexing and oil leakage to the rear brakes. [u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

Email or phone for details of the seal nuts and new shafts/hubs as well as other T Type parts. [u][/u][u][/u]

Bob[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]John Kallend kallend@iit.edu [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, September 27, 2017 7:31 PM [b]To:[/b] Roger Furneaux [b]Cc:[/b] MG-TABC List [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Rear Hub Nuts[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

[u][/u][u][/u]

I installed Roger's sealed nuts about 10 years ago. Completely solved my leaky hub problem. The rear brakes actually work now.[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

Great nuts, Roger![u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u][u][/u]

_____________________________[u][/u][u][/u]

John Kallend[u][/u][u][/u]

Professor Emeritus[u][/u][u][/u]

Department of Mechanical, Materials and Aerospace Engineering[u][/u][u][/u]

Department of Physics[u][/u][u][/u]

IIT, Chicago[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 6:19 PM, Roger Furneaux roger.46tc@gmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u][u][/u]

hi Guys - I have only just caught up with the emails about the Rear Hub Bearing Nuts c/w Integral Lip-Seals, so to clear up a few misconceptions, here are the facts:[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

In the TA parts list, the hub nuts are shown as Hexagonal, and they were 1 1/4" BSW size, of 2.050" AF (=52.07mm). They are now very rare (although I have a few) because they were replaced later by the slotted ones which most cars have on now. A special tubular spanner was needed which engaged with the slots, but as only MG workshops had them, owners had to resort to using a drift, or worse, a cold-chisel. This resulted in major distortion of the nuts, and probably shards of metal going into the bearings, especially when it was not realised that N/S (L/H side) nut had a Left Hand thread. How many owners actually [b]tightened[/b] them before realising?[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

The oil-return scroll bushes in the ends of the axle casing are only partly effective, even when new, and for that reason the hubs were required to be filled with Castrol "Heavy Grease", by using the grease nipples behind the spinners. However, this grease has been unavailable for many years, and indeed hubs made in England likewise have had no grease nipples for years. Even those with them (as still supplied by Moss) have probably been filled with the much lighter Chassis Grease, which does not form much of a barrier to leaking EP140 diff. oil. Indeed, combined with over-filling with the grease-gun, it usually led to a hub full of black oil, streaks along the spokes, and of course saturated brake linings...[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

For these reasons, many years ago I designed Hexagonal Hub Nuts which are 1/4" wider than original to incorporate a double-lipped nitrile-rubber seals. Now the half-shaft splines protrude from the inside of the hubs, often by 1/2" or more, so I made sleeves from stainless steel tubing which are glued (Araldite or JB weld) over the splines for the seals to run on. The scrolls should be removed because the seals need oil to stop them running hot.[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

Now, although the bearing journal is 40mm diameter, the thread for the nuts is [b]NOT[/b] 40mm - it is 1 9/16" (39.69mm) x 16tpi and is a size commonly used on British cars (fully in the spirit of "Mad Metrics" of mixing metric and Imperial threads and spanner sizes!). Incidently, the MGA was still using the same thread, but the nuts were [b]octagonal[/b] - go figure![u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

When I started making them, the 1 9/16" bar stock was available, and so were 1 1/4" BSW sockets: however, in the rest of the world, only 50mm or 2"AF were found (52mm was never an ISO metric size), so I went down to 50mm AF. This is what Moss are referring to.[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

I have supplied many hundreds of these nuts over the years, to NTG and Octagon Club in the UK, and also to FromTheFrameUp. Most recently I have supplied them to Moss. The only problem reported has been that they won't screw on, always as a result of damage to the axle threads: I have over-size nuts which usually solve the problem (for really bad threads, either use a thread-restoring file or fit new axle ends, which I now stock). Many people have had the same seals for several years without leaks (the record is 15!) although I recommend changing them every 5000 miles). [u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

The numbers on the seals, 175-112-25 are the inch dimensions (not metric!) 1 3/4" OD, 1 1/8" ID and 1/4" wide: the ones I supply are nitrile rubber, made in Taiwan, and are marked "TC" (probably means double-lip in Taiwanese!). Chicago Rawhide probably have an equivalent (although do they still use hide?).[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

Hopefully this will make things clear (it not, I'm sure you will say so!)[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

oc[b]T[/b]agonally[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

Roger[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]