alignment

[Murray G Arundell]

Tweed, Try driving on out colonial goat tracks.  I was in the UK last Christmas and while I ll concede the country lanes are not as billiard table smooth as they were a few years ago they and UK roads in general are of a standard we living in your former colonies can only dream of Murray Arundell Brisbane, Australia  e arundell@ghs.com.au

On 21 Sep 2017, at 9:31 pm, Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:  'our roads here are generally pretty smooth' .... Thank your lucky stars Steve ... here in Britain the roads are appalling!   To rub salt in the wound, the vast sums we have paid into the EU have probably gone to repairing and building new ones in Europe!  TweedTC 0632Cambridge UK   From: "Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To: "E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk" E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk>; "morelists@yahoo.com" morelists@yahoo.com>; "mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>  Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017, 11:37 Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] alignment  My expectation is that the vehicle be reasonably safe to drive, realizing that with its age, bias ply tires, and such, it will not approach a modern car with rack and pinion steering and some caution is a good thing.  I find it to be now quite similar to my Morgan so am reasonably happy with it.  By the way I have played with adjustment of the track rod ends over the years and now have them set fairly snugly as our roads here are generally pretty smooth.Steve TC2911 From: "E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To:< /span> morgan7709@sbcglobal.net; morelists@yahoo.com; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com  Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 4:42 AM Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] alignment   Hi Stephen, Anyone's observations about the TC's steering are somewhat variable depending on mood, cross winds, road conditions and how much amber nectar has been consumed.  One potential influence on steering is the pre-load of the springs in the track rod ends; the pitch of the thread is 20 TPI, so the suggested backing off by half a turn of the end plug would allow the spring to compress by 25 thou. under the influence of the "splaying out" forces on the wheels. With a total of 50 thou. for the two track ends multiplied by the ratio of the radius of the wheel rim divided by the length of the steering arm which is some 10"/4", a 2.5 fold amplification of the compressibility of the track rod springs results at the wheel's rim. This equates to 1/8", a significant portion of the toe-in adjustment. It's tempting to suggest that some of the variations in optimising the toe-in adjustment could be linked to the set up of the track-rod ends. Regards, Eric. ________________________________________ From: Stephen D Stierman [morgan7709@sbcglobal.net] An interesting observation Eric. In my simplistic mind, I simply looked at the specifications in my shop manual, noticed the difference in toe from the TA to the TC and thought, well might as well give 1/2" a try since I had already increased the toe to something around 3/8" with some improvement. Perhaps someone else out there in TC land might want to do the same and report back? ________________________________ From: "e.worpe@surrey.ac.uk" e.worpe@surrey.ac.uk> If only it were that simple, my previous e-mail referred to the "foot print" of the tyre being outside of the point where the king-pin axis meets the ground. One unfortunate effect of this is the tendency of the wheel to be swung backwards around the king-pin due to the wheel's rolling resistance with the ground. Normally this effect is balanced out by both wheels experiencing the same rolling resistance, so on smooth roads the car steers straight ahead. However, should one wheel experience a change in rolling resistance due to an undulation in the road surface, the different forces swinging the wheels backwards about the axis of the king-pins will result in a deflection of the front end. This could be the reason the TB & TC are twitchy, the TA with its side laced wheels does not suffer so much from this problem as the tyre's foot print almost straddles the extrapolated king pin's axis. Quite why MG chose to change the wheel offset is open to conjecture , it could be that centre laced wheels enabled improved cooling of the brake drums; increasing the track width also improves road holding. Why the toe-in adjustment should have such an effect on stability is puzzling as are the differences in advised toe-in. The TA with its side laced wheels should need a reduced toe in, yet has a recommended 1/2" toe in compared with the 3/16" of the TC. I suspect that lost motion in the steering box exaggerates any inherent instability of the front end. It does seem from your observations that adjusting the toe in for improved stability is worth trying out.

[Usaj24@earthlink.net]

Guys,As previously mentioned there are no magic #'s, only initial pressure guidelines. The acid test is visible wear pattern on tread & adjusting pressures for idealized even wear pattern. Sent from my iPad

On Sep 21, 2017, at 4:54 PM, John Swanland swanland@optusnet.com.au [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  My dealer (Vintage Tyres in Melbourne, Australia) is saying 35psi all round for Excelsiors on the TC.  Since I buy my tyres from him I follow this recommendation cheers John Swanland TC7557 On 22/09/2017 5:33 AM, Rothgene rothgene@msn.com [mg-tabc] wrote:   Now that the alignment problem is solved ? lets discuss tire pressure, as this may have something to do with wander and tire wear. I say 26 to 28 psi front and 32 psi rear, what say you out there? Gene Roth   [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com on behalf of 'Jean Vignau' jeanvignau@orange.fr [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, September 21, 2017 3:52 PM [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] alignment     Tweed, I can assure you your money was not spent on French roads (alas!!!) Jean [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif&t=1522511786&sig=U8Hudou_x_g4VwfgwXk8xg--~D[/img] Virus-free. www.avast.com

[Clive P Sherriff]

Eric,   And don't forget that if your front wheel bearings are a bit worn, then your carefully set 1/2 inch static toe in, will be a 1/2 inch toe OUT when youre moving foreward !   Clive m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm    

----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk [mg-tabc] [b]To:[/b] morgan7709@sbcglobal.net ; morelists@yahoo.com ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, September 21, 2017 9:42 AM [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [mg-tabc] alignment   Hi Stephen, Anyone's observations about the TC's steering are somewhat variable depending on mood, cross winds, road conditions and how much amber nectar has been consumed. One potential influence on steering is the pre-load of the springs in the track rod ends; the pitch of the thread is 20 TPI, so the suggested backing off by half a turn of the end plug would allow the spring to compress by 25 thou. under the influence of the "splaying out" forces on the wheels. With a total of 50 thou. for the two track ends multiplied by the ratio of the radius of the wheel rim divided by the length of the steering arm which is some 10"/4", a 2.5 fold amplification of the compressibility of the track rod springs results at the wheel's rim. This equates to 1/8", a significant portion of the toe-in adjustment. It's tempting to suggest that some of the variations in optimising the toe-in adjustment could be linked to the set up of the track-rod ends. Regards, Eric. ________________________________________ From: Stephen D Stierman [morgan7709@sbcglobal.net] An interesting observation Eric. In my simplistic mind, I simply looked at the specifications in my shop manual, noticed the difference in toe from the TA to the TC and thought, well might as well give 1/2" a try since I had already increased the toe to something around 3/8" with some improvement. Perhaps someone else out there in TC land might want to do the same and report back? ________________________________ From: "e.worpe@surrey.ac.uk" e.worpe@surrey.ac.uk> If only it were that simple, my previous e-mail referred to the "foot print" of the tyre being outside of the point where the king-pin axis meets the ground. One unfortunate effect of this is the tendency of the wheel to be swung backwards around the king-pin due to the wheel's rolling resistance with the ground. Normally this effect is balanced out by both wheels experiencing the same rolling resistance, so on smooth roads the car steers straight ahead. However, should one wheel experience a change in rolling resistance due to an undulation in the road surface, the different forces swinging the wheels backwards about the axis of the king-pins will result in a deflection of the front end. This could be the reason the TB & TC are twitchy, the TA with its side laced wheels does not suffer so much from this problem as the tyre's foot print almost straddles the extrapolated king pin's axis. Quite why MG chose to change the wheel offset is open to conjecture , it could be that centre laced wheels enabled improved cooling of the brake drums; increasing the track width also improves road holding. Why the toe-in adjustment should have such an effect on stability is puzzling as are the differences in advised toe-in. The TA with its side laced wheels should need a reduced toe in, yet has a recommended 1/2" toe in compared with the 3/16" of the TC. I suspect that lost motion in the steering box exaggerates any inherent instability of the front end. It does seem from your observations that adjusting the toe in for improved stability is worth trying out. [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif&t=1522511786&sig=U8Hudou_x_g4VwfgwXk8xg--~D[/img] Virus-free. www.avast.com

[Tweed]

Hiya Murray ... struth mate, you don't expect us to pay for your roads as well as every other buggers do ya ..  Some of the older motorways here are past their 'best before' date too now. Sections where the surface has broken up are 'spot repaired' that lasts a winter or two rather than being resurfaced that would last many years.  I suppose it's all about what we've become accustomed to ... and paid for.  TC's were made for country lanes, but some of them now resemble patchwork quilts that have been repaired with a bucket of Tarmac and the back of a shovel.  Tweed.    [b]From:[/b] Murray G Arundell arundell@ghs.com.au> [b]To:[/b] Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk> [b]Cc:[/b] Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net>; "E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk" E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk>; "morelists@yahoo.com" morelists@yahoo.com>; "mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, 21 September 2017, 23:05 Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] alignment Tweed, Try driving on out colonial goat tracks.  I was in the UK last Christmas and while I ll concede the country lanes are not as billiard table smooth as they were a few years ago they and UK roads in general are of a standard we living in your former colonies can only dream of Murray Arundell Brisbane, Australia  e arundell@ghs.com.au

On 21 Sep 2017, at 9:31 pm, Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:  'our roads here are generally pretty smooth' .... Thank your lucky stars Steve ... here in Britain the roads are appalling!   To rub salt in the wound, the vast sums we have paid into the EU have probably gone to repairing and building new ones in Europe!  TweedTC 0632Cambridge UK   From: "Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To: "E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk" E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk>; "morelists@yahoo.com" morelists@yahoo.com>; "mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>  Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017, 11:37 Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] alignment  My expectation is that the vehicle be reasonably safe to drive, realizing that with its age, bias ply tires, and such, it will not approach a modern car with rack and pinion steering and some caution is a good thing.  I find it to be now quite similar to my Morgan so am reasonably happy with it.  By the way I have played with adjustment of the track rod ends over the years and now have them set fairly snugly as our roads here are generally pretty smooth.Steve TC2911 From: "E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To:< /span> morgan7709@sbcglobal.net; morelists@yahoo.com; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com  Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 4:42 AM Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] alignment   Hi Stephen, Anyone's observations about the TC's steering are somewhat variable depending on mood, cross winds, road conditions and how much amber nectar has been consumed.  One potential influence on steering is the pre-load of the springs in the track rod ends; the pitch of the thread is 20 TPI, so the suggested backing off by half a turn of the end plug would allow the spring to compress by 25 thou. under the influence of the "splaying out" forces on the wheels. With a total of 50 thou. for the two track ends multiplied by the ratio of the radius of the wheel rim divided by the length of the steering arm which is some 10"/4", a 2.5 fold amplification of the compressibility of the track rod springs results at the wheel's rim. This equates to 1/8", a significant portion of the toe-in adjustment. It's tempting to suggest that some of the variations in optimising the toe-in adjustment could be linked to the set up of the track-rod ends. Regards, Eric. ________________________________________ From: Stephen D Stierman [morgan7709@sbcglobal.net] An interesting observation Eric. In my simplistic mind, I simply looked at the specifications in my shop manual, noticed the difference in toe from the TA to the TC and thought, well might as well give 1/2" a try since I had already increased the toe to something around 3/8" with some improvement. Perhaps someone else out there in TC land might want to do the same and report back? ________________________________ From: "e.worpe@surrey.ac.uk" e.worpe@surrey.ac.uk> If only it were that simple, my previous e-mail referred to the "foot print" of the tyre being outside of the point where the king-pin axis meets the ground. One unfortunate effect of this is the tendency of the wheel to be swung backwards around the king-pin due to the wheel's rolling resistance with the ground. Normally this effect is balanced out by both wheels experiencing the same rolling resistance, so on smooth roads the car steers straight ahead. However, should one wheel experience a change in rolling resistance due to an undulation in the road surface, the different forces swinging the wheels backwards about the axis of the king-pins will result in a deflection of the front end. This could be the reason the TB & TC are twitchy, the TA with its side laced wheels does not suffer so much from this problem as the tyre's foot print almost straddles the extrapolated king pin's axis. Quite why MG chose to change the wheel offset is open to conjecture , it could be that centre laced wheels enabled improved cooling of the brake drums; increasing the track width also improves road holding. Why the toe-in adjustment should have such an effect on stability is puzzling as are the differences in advised toe-in. The TA with its side laced wheels should need a reduced toe in, yet has a recommended 1/2" toe in compared with the 3/16" of the TC. I suspect that lost motion in the steering box exaggerates any inherent instability of the front end. It does seem from your observations that adjusting the toe in for improved stability is worth trying out.

[Tim Bloomfield]

I run 30 to 32 psi.  The middle of the tires shows the most wear.  This has been the case for the last three sets of tires.  I was running Firestones, now a mix of Excelsiors and Firestones since Firestones have become unavailable.  I plan to drop the pressure to 28 psi to even out the wear across the tires.  Any lower pressure and the ride gets sqeamish. This is a TB that is driven many times a week including Interstate travel at 60 to 65 mph to not block traffic. My only comment is the tires do not last nearly as long as any other vehicle.  I just assume this is due to the manufacturers' of these vintage tires so my expectations are low.Tim BloomfieldTB0613 Louisiana Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 2:34 PM, Rothgene rothgene@msn.com [mg-tabc]mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   Now that the alignment problem is solved ? lets discuss tire pressure, as this may have something to do with wander and tire wear. I say 26 to 28 psi front and 32 psi rear, what say you out there? Gene Roth   [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of 'Jean Vignau' jeanvignau@orange.fr [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, September 21, 2017 3:52 PM [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] alignment     Tweed, I can assure you your money was not spent on French roads (alas!!!) 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[Steve S]

I run 26-29PSI depending on weather and road conditions. Wear across my Dunlop B5's is perfectly even and handling is good. 29 PSI runs a little harder with slightly less traction than 26, but steering response improves due to reduced sidewall flex. So for around town with the missus 26 is good, and on long tours I bump it up to around 29 for fuel economy (real or imagined) and better high speed response. One part of the wear issue may be that our tires are really narrow, so much more load per square inch on the rubber than a modern car. And perhaps the bias-ply construction has something to do with it as well. - Steve Simmons, TC8975 On 9/21/2017 12:33 PM, Rothgene rothgene@msn.com [mg-tabc] wrote:

Now that the alignment problem is solved ? lets discuss tire pressure, as this may have something to do with wander and tire wear. I say 26 to 28 psi front and 32 psi rear, what say you out there? Gene Roth [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com on behalf of 'Jean Vignau' jeanvignau@orange.fr [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, September 21, 2017 3:52 PM [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] alignment Tweed, I can assure you your money was not spent on French roads (alas!!!) Jean

[Steve S]

I run modern-style tie rod ends on my TC, since I have a Datsun box that I don't feel needs the protection offered by the spring type. I do have a stock drag link end still mounted. I figure the solid tie rod ends can only help with stability and steering response. I don't recall my toe in setting but I think it's around 3/8". No wedges, no play in king pins and minimal play in wheel bearings. Straight axle, relatively straight wheels. With all that, my car will drive down a flat road in a straight line with no hands on the wheel. I also added a panhard rod but it had no effect on wandering tendencies. - Steve Simmons, TC8975 On 9/21/2017 3:37 AM, Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] wrote:

My expectation is that the vehicle be reasonably safe to drive, realizing that with its age, bias ply tires, and such, it will not approach a modern car with rack and pinion steering and some caution is a good thing. I find it to be now quite similar to my Morgan so am reasonably happy with it. By the way I have played with adjustment of the track rod ends over the years and now have them set fairly snugly as our roads here are generally pretty smooth. Steve TC2911 [b]From:[/b] E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk[mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com [b]To:[/b] morgan7709@sbcglobal.net; morelists@yahoo.com; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, September 21, 2017 4:42 AM [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [mg-tabc] alignment Hi Stephen, Anyone's observations about the TC's steering are somewhat variable depending on mood, cross winds, road conditions and how much amber nectar has been consumed. One potential influence on steering is the pre-load of the springs in the track rod ends; the pitch of the thread is 20 TPI, so the suggested backing off by half a turn of the end plug would allow the spring to compress by 25 thou. under the influence of the "splaying out" forces on the wheels. With a total of 50 thou. for the two track ends multiplied by the ratio of the radius of the wheel rim divided by the length of the steering arm which is some 10"/4", a 2.5 fold amplification of the compressibility of the track rod springs results at the wheel's rim. This equates to 1/8", a significant portion of the toe-in adjustment. It's tempting to suggest that some of the variations in optimising the toe-in adjustment could be linked to the set up of the track-rod ends. Regards, Eric. ________________________________________ From: Stephen D Stierman [morgan7709@sbcglobal.net] An interesting observation Eric. In my simplistic mind, I simply looked at the specifications in my shop manual, noticed the difference in toe from the TA to the TC and thought, well might as well give 1/2" a try since I had already increased the toe to something around 3/8" with some improvement. Perhaps someone else out there in TC land might want to do the same and report back? ________________________________ From: e.worpe@surrey.ac.uk e.worpe@surrey.ac.uk If only it were that simple, my previous e-mail referred to the "foot print" of the tyre being outside of the point where the king-pin axis meets the ground. One unfortunate effect of this is the tendency of the wheel to be swung backwards around the king-pin due to the wheel's rolling resistance with the ground. Normally this effect is balanced out by both wheels experiencing the same rolling resistance, so on smooth roads the car steers straight ahead. However, should one wheel experience a change in rolling resistance due to an undulation in the road surface, the different forces swinging the wheels backwards about the axis of the king-pins will result in a deflection of the front end. This could be the reason the TB & TC are twitchy, the TA with its side laced wheels does not suffer so much from this problem as the tyre's foot print almost straddles the extrapolated king pin's axis. Quite why MG chose to change the wheel offset is open to conjecture , it could be that centre laced wheels enabled improved cooling of the brake drums; increasing the track width also improves road holding. Why the toe-in adjustment should have such an effect on stability is puzzling as are the differences in advised toe-in. The TA with its side laced wheels should need a reduced toe in, yet has a recommended 1/2" toe in compared with the 3/16" of the TC. I suspect that lost motion in the steering box exaggerates any inherent instability of the front end. It does seem from your observations that adjusting the toe in for improved stability is worth trying out.

[Mark & Sheila Masters]

Hi Tweed, If you think UK roads are bad then I would respectfully suggest that you have not experienced really bad roads. I have driven in many parts of the World and there is nowhere that the locals do not think their roads are terrible. It s relative. CheersMarkNZ

On 22Sep, 2017, at 13:09, Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hiya Murray ... struth mate, you don't expect us to pay for your roads as well as every other buggers do ya ..  Some of the older motorways here are past their 'best before' date too now. Sections where the surface has broken up are 'spot repaired' that lasts a winter or two rather than being resurfaced that would last many years.  I suppose it's all about what we've become accustomed to ... and paid for.  TC's were made for country lanes, but some of them now resemble patchwork quilts that have been repaired with a bucket of Tarmac and the back of a shovel.  Tweed.    From: Murray G Arundell arundell@ghs.com.au> To: Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk>  Cc: Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net>; "E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk" E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk>; "morelists@yahoo.com" morelists@yahoo.com>; "mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017, 23:05 Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] alignment Tweed, Try driving on out colonial goat tracks.  I was in the UK last Christmas and while I ll concede the country lanes are not as billiard table smooth as they were a few years ago they and UK roads in general are of a standard we living in your former colonies can only dream of Murray Arundell Brisbane, Australia  e arundell@ghs.com.au On 21 Sep 2017, at 9:31 pm, Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:  'our roads here are generally pretty smooth' .... Thank your lucky stars Steve ... here in Britain the roads are appalling!   To rub salt in the wound, the vast sums we have paid into the EU have probably gone to repairing and building new ones in Europe!  TweedTC 0632Cambridge UK   From: "Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To: "E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk" E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk>; "morelists@yahoo.com" morelists@yahoo.com>; "mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>  Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2017, 11:37 Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] alignment  My expectation is that the vehicle be reasonably safe to drive, realizing that with its age, bias ply tires, and such, it will not approach a modern car with rack and pinion steering and some caution is a good thing.  I find it to be now quite similar to my Morgan so am reasonably happy with it.  By the way I have played with adjustment of the track rod ends over the years and now have them set fairly snugly as our roads here are generally pretty smooth.Steve TC2911 From: "E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To:< /span> morgan7709@sbcglobal.net; morelists@yahoo.com; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com  Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 4:42 AM Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] alignment   Hi Stephen, Anyone's observations about the TC's steering are somewhat variable depending on mood, cross winds, road conditions and how much amber nectar has been consumed.  One potential influence on steering is the pre-load of the springs in the track rod ends; the pitch of the thread is 20 TPI, so the suggested backing off by half a turn of the end plug would allow the spring to compress by 25 thou. under the influence of the "splaying out" forces on the wheels. With a total of 50 thou. for the two track ends multiplied by the ratio of the radius of the wheel rim divided by the length of the steering arm which is some 10"/4", a 2.5 fold amplification of the compressibility of the track rod springs results at the wheel's rim. This equates to 1/8", a significant portion of the toe-in adjustment. It's tempting to suggest that some of the variations in optimising the toe-in adjustment could be linked to the set up of the track-rod ends. Regards, Eric. ________________________________________ From: Stephen D Stierman [morgan7709@sbcglobal.net] An interesting observation Eric. In my simplistic mind, I simply looked at the specifications in my shop manual, noticed the difference in toe from the TA to the TC and thought, well might as well give 1/2" a try since I had already increased the toe to something around 3/8" with some improvement. Perhaps someone else out there in TC land might want to do the same and report back? ________________________________ From: "e.worpe@surrey.ac.uk" e.worpe@surrey.ac.uk> If only it were that simple, my previous e-mail referred to the "foot print" of the tyre being outside of the point where the king-pin axis meets the ground. One unfortunate effect of this is the tendency of the wheel to be swung backwards around the king-pin due to the wheel's rolling resistance with the ground. Normally this effect is balanced out by both wheels experiencing the same rolling resistance, so on smooth roads the car steers straight ahead. However, should one wheel experience a change in rolling resistance due to an undulation in the road surface, the different forces swinging the wheels backwards about the axis of the king-pins will result in a deflection of the front end. This could be the reason the TB & TC are twitchy, the TA with its side laced wheels does not suffer so much from this problem as the tyre's foot print almost straddles the extrapolated king pin's axis. Quite why MG chose to change the wheel offset is open to conjecture , it could be that centre laced wheels enabled improved cooling of the brake drums; increasing the track width also improves road holding. Why the toe-in adjustment should have such an effect on stability is puzzling as are the differences in advised toe-in. The TA with its side laced wheels should need a reduced toe in, yet has a recommended 1/2" toe in compared with the 3/16" of the TC. I suspect that lost motion in the steering box exaggerates any inherent instability of the front end. It does seem from your observations that adjusting the toe in for improved stability is worth trying out.

[Tweed]

Bonjour Jean, ... (that's about the limit of my French) .. we took our grandson to a Water Park about an hours drive from Nantes a couple of years ago and I thought your roads were quite good ... mind you, we weren't in the TC  It's like criticising your own kids ... you can do it all you like, but nobody else can.  We also made a vist to Les Machines .... fascinating place and exhibits.  Tweed   [b]From:[/b] "'Jean Vignau' jeanvignau@orange.fr [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, 21 September 2017, 16:52 Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] alignment   Tweed, I can assure you your money was not spent on French roads (alas!!!) 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[Norman Verona]

Tweed,

 

That s not far from where we lived. Why didn t you call in for coffee ..

 

 

[b][i]Norman Verona[/i][/b]

11 Cherry Close, Royston, South Yorkshire S71 4LZ

Phone: 0044 (0)1226 728811

Mob: 0044 (0)741 9905 741

[b][i]Web: www.frenchblat.com[/i][/b]

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] 22 September 2017 08:50 [b]To:[/b] Jean Vignau jeanvignau@orange.fr>; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] alignment

 

 

Bonjour Jean, ... (that's about the limit of my French) .. we took our grandson to a Water Park about an hours drive from Nantes a couple of years ago and I thought your roads were quite good ... mind you, we weren't in the TC  

It's like criticising your own kids ... you can do it all you like, but nobody else can.

 

We also made a vist to Les Machines .... fascinating place and exhibits. 

 

Tweed  

 

 

 

 

 

[b]From:[/b] "'Jean Vignau' jeanvignau@orange.fr [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, 21 September 2017, 16:52 Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] alignment

 

 

Tweed, I can assure you your money was not spent on French roads (alas!!!)

Jean