Hydrogen

[Graham Knight]

Dear All, Warning! Speculative discussion you may prefer to ignore. The word in Europe is that petrol and diesel cars will be phased out by 2030. Although there may well be exemptions for "historic" vehicles, I imagine petrol and diesel fuels will become difficult and expensive to buy. I read in a recent copy of "New Scientist" (UK popular science magazine) of research at a US Army Research Lab in Maryland that had discovered an aluminium compound that catalysed the break-down of water into hydrogen and oxygen. If this scales up and is economic it could provide a viable and portable way of generating hydrogen fuel. So, what would it need to convert an XPAG to run on hydrogen? Would it be feasible to use a hydrogen/oxygen mix to avoid generating toxic Nitrogen compounds? It can't be that hard. I recall that some London buses were converted to run on coal gas during WW2! Graham

[Mike Inglehearn]

Hi Whilst there is much talk of phasing out petrol and diesel cars by 2030, it is NEW petrol and diesel cars that are to be phased out, I think there will be plenty of both petrol and diesel cars around for well after 2030 otherwise the oil industry would not be very happy!I believe prior to and possibly just after ww2, MG used to run the engines on coal gas in the factory before sale.RegardsMike  [b]From:[/b] "Graham Knight graham.knight5@gmail.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, 30 August 2017, 10:24 [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Hydrogen   Dear All, Warning! Speculative discussion you may prefer to ignore. The word in Europe is that petrol and diesel cars will be phased out by 2030. Although there may well be exemptions for "historic" vehicles, I imagine petrol and diesel fuels will become difficult and expensive to buy. I read in a recent copy of "New Scientist" (UK popular science magazine) of research at a US Army Research Lab in Maryland that had discovered an aluminium compound that catalysed the break-down of water into hydrogen and oxygen. If this scales up and is economic it could provide a viable and portable way of generating hydrogen fuel. So, what would it need to convert an XPAG to run on hydrogen? Would it be feasible to use a hydrogen/oxygen mix to avoid generating toxic Nitrogen compounds? It can't be that hard. I recall that some London buses were converted to run on coal gas during WW2! Graham #ygrps-yiv-1790115328 #ygrps-yiv-1790115328yiv2053851261 #ygrps-yiv-1790115328yiv2053851261 -- #ygrps-yiv-1790115328yiv2053851261ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #ygrps-yiv-1790115328 #ygrps-yiv-1790115328yiv2053851261 #ygrps-yiv-1790115328yiv2053851261ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrps-yiv-1790115328 #ygrps-yiv-1790115328yiv2053851261 #ygrps-yiv-1790115328yiv2053851261ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-1790115328yiv2053851261hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #ygrps-yiv-1790115328 #ygrps-yiv-1790115328yiv2053851261 #ygrps-yiv-1790115328yiv2053851261ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-1790115328yiv2053851261ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #ygrps-yiv-1790115328 #ygrps-yiv-1790115328yiv2053851261 #ygrps-yiv-1790115328yiv2053851261ygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-1790115328yiv2053851261ad { padding:0 0;} #ygrps-yiv-1790115328 #ygrps-yiv-1790115328yiv2053851261 #ygrps-yiv-1790115328yiv2053851261ygrp-mkp 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[Geoff Broad]

Attachments :The Guardian newspaper says 2040 for banning of new car sales running on petrol or diesel.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/25/britain-to-ban-sale-of-all-diesel-and-petrol-cars-and-vans-from-2040

 

Interestingly the reference to premature deaths from pollution is commented on by Quentin Wilson in this months Classic Cars magazine. He says that the EU report from which the premature deaths headline comes from shows the premature element is 3.5 hours! I am happy to exchange 3.5 hours for continuing use of my classics.

 

Regards

Geoff

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]MIKE INGLEHEARN mingle54@btinternet.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] 30 August 2017 09:49 [b]To:[/b] Graham Knight; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Hydrogen

 

 

Hi 

Whilst there is much talk of phasing out petrol and diesel cars by 2030, it is NEW petrol and diesel cars that are to be phased out, I think there will be plenty of both petrol and diesel cars around for well after 2030 otherwise the oil industry would not be very happy!

I believe prior to and possibly just after ww2, MG used to run the engines on coal gas in the factory before sale.

Regards

Mike 

 

[b]From:[/b] "Graham Knight graham.knight5@gmail.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, 30 August 2017, 10:24 [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Hydrogen

 

 

Dear All, Warning! Speculative discussion you may prefer to ignore. The word in Europe is that petrol and diesel cars will be phased out by 2030. Although there may well be exemptions for "historic" vehicles, I imagine petrol and diesel fuels will become difficult and expensive to buy. I read in a recent copy of "New Scientist" (UK popular science magazine) of research at a US Army Research Lab in Maryland that had discovered an aluminium compound that catalysed the break-down of water into hydrogen and oxygen. If this scales up and is economic it could provide a viable and portable way of generating hydrogen fuel. So, what would it need to convert an XPAG to run on hydrogen? Would it be feasible to use a hydrogen/oxygen mix to avoid generating toxic Nitrogen compounds? It can't be that hard. I recall that some London buses were converted to run on coal gas during WW2! Graham

 

[Norman Verona]

It s the manufacture of fossil fuelled cars that is to be phased out by 203 not their use. I guess it will take another 20 years to get rid of 90% of the fossil fuelled cars and even then there will be a lot still running. They may get banned from city centres and, yes, fuel will not be as available as it is today but it will be there for those who want it.

 

Seeing as we re talking about 2050 and I ll be 104 I m not losing any sleep over it.

 

My lad has a Tesla so he s just chuckling to himself.

 

 

[b][i]Norman Verona[/i][/b]

11 Cherry Close, Royston, South Yorkshire S71 4LZ

Phone: 0044 (0)1226 728811

Mob: 0044 (0)741 9905 741

[b][i]Web: www.frenchblat.com[/i][/b]

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Graham Knight graham.knight5@gmail.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] 30 August 2017 09:15 [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Hydrogen

 

 

Dear All, Warning! Speculative discussion you may prefer to ignore. The word in Europe is that petrol and diesel cars will be phased out by 2030. Although there may well be exemptions for "historic" vehicles, I imagine petrol and diesel fuels will become difficult and expensive to buy. I read in a recent copy of "New Scientist" (UK popular science magazine) of research at a US Army Research Lab in Maryland that had discovered an aluminium compound that catalysed the break-down of water into hydrogen and oxygen. If this scales up and is economic it could provide a viable and portable way of generating hydrogen fuel. So, what would it need to convert an XPAG to run on hydrogen? Would it be feasible to use a hydrogen/oxygen mix to avoid generating toxic Nitrogen compounds? It can't be that hard. I recall that some London buses were converted to run on coal gas during WW2! Graham

[Graham Knight]

Hi, The point about sales not cars being banned is well made - thanks. However, manufacturers will see the writing on the wall long before the ban and will switch away from petrol and diesel. Some have already announced plans to do so - Volvo in 2019 for example. Anyway, I was interested in the technical issues of switching to hydrogen. Could you just squirt it into the carburettor? How would you control the flow? Graham

[paulhuck@bellsouth.net]

But the Tesla is electric. Much of our electricity come from fossil fueled plants. California said 20 years ago that 1 in 3 cars sold in the state by 2012 had to be electric. See how that turned out. I see more hybrid cars in the future. Orvitccould bed that, as Nancy Pelosi said, we will usecnsturslbgss instead of fossil fuels. ( She IS from Califirnia). Lol [i]Sent from my LG K10, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone[/i] ------ Original message------[b]From: [/b]'Norman Verona' norman@frenchblat.com [mg-tabc][b]Date: [/b]Wed, Aug 30, 2017 4:27 AM[b]To: [/b]'Graham Knight';mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com;[b]Cc: [/b][b]Subject:[/b]RE: [mg-tabc] Hydrogen  

It s the manufacture of fossil fuelled cars that is to be phased out by 203 not their use. I guess it will take another 20 years to get rid of 90% of the fossil fuelled cars and even then there will be a lot still running. They may get banned from city centres and, yes, fuel will not be as available as it is today but it will be there for those who want it.

 

Seeing as we re talking about 2050 and I ll be 104 I m not losing any sleep over it.

 

My lad has a Tesla so he s just chuckling to himself.

 

 

[b][i]Norman Verona[/i][/b]

11 Cherry Close, Royston, South Yorkshire S71 4LZ

Phone: 0044 (0)1226 728811

Mob: 0044 (0)741 9905 741

[b][i]Web: www.frenchblat.com[/i][/b]

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Graham Knight graham.knight5@gmail.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] 30 August 2017 09:15 [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Hydrogen

 

 

Dear All, Warning! Speculative discussion you may prefer to ignore. The word in Europe is that petrol and diesel cars will be phased out by 2030. Although there may well be exemptions for "historic" vehicles, I imagine petrol and diesel fuels will become difficult and expensive to buy. I read in a recent copy of "New Scientist" (UK popular science magazine) of research at a US Army Research Lab in Maryland that had discovered an aluminium compound that catalysed the break-down of water into hydrogen and oxygen. If this scales up and is economic it could provide a viable and portable way of generating hydrogen fuel. So, what would it need to convert an XPAG to run on hydrogen? Would it be feasible to use a hydrogen/oxygen mix to avoid generating toxic Nitrogen compounds? It can't be that hard. I recall that some London buses were converted to run on coal gas during WW2! Graham

[paulhuck@bellsouth.net]

There are fleet cars now that run on hydrogen. Gas under pressure. Fuel injection. Just not many places to fill up - yet. Fueling requires an air tight connection and a presurized tank. Remember how the Hindenburg went in 1937?  [i]Sent from my LG K10, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone[/i] ------ Original message------[b]From: [/b]Graham Knight graham.knight5@gmail.com [mg-tabc][b]Date: [/b]Wed, Aug 30, 2017 6:53 AM[b]To: [/b]Norman Verona;mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com;[b]Cc: [/b][b]Subject:[/b]Re: [mg-tabc] Hydrogen   Hi, The point about sales not cars being banned is well made - thanks. However, manufacturers will see the writing on the wall long before the ban and will switch away from petrol and diesel. Some have already announced plans to do so - Volvo in 2019 for example. Anyway, I was interested in the technical issues of switching to hydrogen. Could you just squirt it into the carburettor? How would you control the flow? Graham

[Malcolm Scanlan]

There are several cars and trucks over here running on propane. But nobody has answered the question of how easy is it to convert an XPAG engine? Just a heads up - there is a coach load of T lovers heading to the UK from the Vancouver area (myself included). We have a fixed itinerary which includes such venues as the Beaulieu AJ and Goodwood. Malcolm TC6944 White Rock BC [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of 'paulhuck@bellsouth.net' paulhuck@bellsouth.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] August 30, 2017 5:17 AM [b]To:[/b] Graham Knight graham.knight5@gmail.com [mg-tabc]; Norman Verona; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Hydrogen     There are fleet cars now that run on hydrogen. Gas under pressure. Fuel injection. Just not many places to fill up - yet. Fueling requires an air tight connection and a presurized tank. Remember how the Hindenburg went in 1937?  [i]Sent from my LG K10, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone[/i] ------ Original message------ [b]From: [/b]Graham Knight graham.knight5@gmail.com [mg-tabc] [b]Date: [/b]Wed, Aug 30, 2017 6:53 AM [b]To: [/b]Norman Verona;mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com; [b]Cc: [/b] [b]Subject:[/b]Re: [mg-tabc] Hydrogen   Hi, The point about sales not cars being banned is well made - thanks. However, manufacturers will see the writing on the wall long before the ban and will switch away from petrol and diesel. Some have already announced plans to do so - Volvo in 2019 for example. Anyway, I was interested in the technical issues of switching to hydrogen. Could you just squirt it into the carburettor? How would you control the flow? Graham

[Frank Graham]

 Isn't a slab tank full of petrol enough of a risk?  As far as running a T type on hydrogen goes, one word comes to mind....Hindenburg!   Regards, -- Frank frankgraham@msn.com -- [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Graham Knight graham.knight5@gmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, August 30, 2017 7:45 AM [b]To:[/b] Norman Verona; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Hydrogen     Hi, The point about sales not cars being banned is well made - thanks. However, manufacturers will see the writing on the wall long before the ban and will switch away from petrol and diesel. Some have already announced plans to do so - Volvo in 2019 for example. Anyway, I was interested in the technical issues of switching to hydrogen. Could you just squirt it into the carburettor? How would you control the flow? Graham

[Duncan]

You cannot even buy a proper diesel/electric hybrid car in the US yet. Talk of hydrogen powered car's in any significant proportion just sounds like crazy talk. Duncan- CA ____________________

On Wed, 8/30/17, 'paulhuck@bellsouth.net' paulhuck@bellsouth.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Hydrogen To: "'Norman Verona' norman@frenchblat.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com>, "'Graham Knight'" graham.knight5@gmail.com>, mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, August 30, 2017, 5:13 AM But the Tesla is electric. Much of our electricity come from fossil fueled plants. California said 20 years ago that 1 in 3 cars sold in the state by 2012 had to be electric. See how that turned out. I see more hybrid cars in the future. Orvitccould bed that, as Nancy Pelosi said, we will usecnsturslbgss instead of fossil fuels. ( She IS from Califirnia). Lol Sent from my LG K10, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------From: 'Norman Verona' norman@frenchblat.com [mg-tabc]Date: Wed, Aug 30, 2017 4:27 AMTo: 'Graham Knight';mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com;Cc: Subject:RE: [mg-tabc] Hydrogen It s the manufacture of fossil fuelled cars that is to be phased out by 203 not their use. I guess it will take another 20 years to get rid of 90% of the fossil fuelled cars and even then there will be a lot still running. They may get banned from city centres and, yes, fuel will not be as available as it is today but it will be there for those who want it. Seeing as we re talking about 2050 and I ll be 104 I m not losing any sleep over it. My lad has a Tesla so he s just chuckling to himself. Norman Verona11 Cherry Close, Royston, South Yorkshire S71 4LZPhone: 0044 (0)1226 728811Mob: 0044 (0)741 9905 741Web: www.frenchblat.com From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Graham Knight graham.knight5@gmail.com [mg-tabc] Sent: 30 August 2017 09:15 To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Subject: [mg-tabc] Hydrogen Dear All, Warning! Speculative discussion you may prefer to ignore. The word in Europe is that petrol and diesel cars will be phased out by 2030. Although there may well be exemptions for "historic" vehicles, I imagine petrol and diesel fuels will become difficult and expensive to buy. I read in a recent copy of "New Scientist" (UK popular science magazine) of research at a US Army Research Lab in Maryland that had discovered an aluminium compound that catalysed the break-down of water into hydrogen and oxygen. If this scales up and is economic it could provide a viable and portable way of generating hydrogen fuel. So, what would it need to convert an XPAG to run on hydrogen? Would it be feasible to use a hydrogen/oxygen mix to avoid generating toxic Nitrogen compounds? It can't be that hard. I recall that some London buses were converted to run on coal gas during WW2! Graham