Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)

[Clive P Sherriff]

Bitterness ?   Picking a fight ?   Antagonism  ?   Not from me old chap.  And yes I am agreeing with you for G's sake   Steve, you are clearly getting too old and demented for this, give it a rest.   Clive  = ========================================

----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] mail@mgnuts.com [b]To:[/b] csherriff99@gmail.com ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, August 15, 2017 5:30 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once) Clive, I don't know what all the bitterness is about but I'm truly sorry you feel that way.  Nor am I clear why you're looking to pick a fight where none was intended.  It's obvious that my (well intentioned) comment was about axle shafts / half shafts, not the axle housing or a front axle.  If you scroll down to read it again you may realize it was intended as polite discussion, not antagonism.   And no, I've never seen a TC axle housing or front axle break at speed but yes, I'm sure I would notice if it had.  If you have them, I'd love to see photos of the ones you've seen break and hear how it happened, as I'm sure others would.  Surely an extremely rare event that we could all learn from. As for the discussion, I actually thought I was agreeing with you but I must have struck a nerve somewhere, so I apologize.  Or perhaps you've confused me with the other Steve in this thread, Steve Stierman, who I believe has an opinion contrary to mine.  I wasn't the one who brought up safety and quality control, and the reply you're picking on me for (over terminology of all things) wasn't actually to you.  I was respectfully replying to the other Steve, and agreeing with Bill that safety critical components like drop arms should be manufactured to adequate specification.  If you disagree with that then I guess we do disagree on something, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion like everyone else. And just to be clear... yes, I know what a half shaft / axle shaft is but I suspect you already know that.  And I also suspect you know that "snapping an axle" is a common term referring to half shafts.  Incidentally, Bob Grunau's tapered half shafts are listed in his catalog as "TA/TC tapered rear axles with key and nut" so apparently he doesn't know what an half shaft is either!  (joke) I still agree with Bill who stated "there can never be enough discussion about how or why things break, and preventive measures".  But I guess we can't do that here anymore.  Pity. - Steve Simmons, TC8975 (who runs Bob's wonderful tapered axles / half shafts / axle shafts, as well as his front spindles and spin on adapter) On 8/15/2017 3:18 AM, Clive P Sherriff wrote: Dear Steve,   Let's not get up tight about this   Yes I have had a TABC Type axle break at 65 mph.   and in another historic car, a rear axle disintergrate at over 130mph.   Have you ?   It's no trivial matter.   By your flippant reply I can only assume you have not.  Or perhaps you just did not notice?    Anyway, I suspect the confusion is that you don't know what an "axle" is and that what you actually mean is a half shaft.  And a tapered half shaft is not going to stop an axle breaking, front or rear !   Either way I still maintain that it is a prime requirement that suppliers should employ more than sufficient quality control and sampling to ensure all their products are safe to use, dimensionally correct, employ the correct and correctly treated materials, and are fit for purpose.  Many do not seem to do this and just sell on what they order in regardless.   All Best   Clive Oxford UK.   m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] mail@mgnuts.com [b]To:[/b] csherriff99@gmail.com ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, August 15, 2017 9:32 AM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once) Have you ever seen an axle break at 65 mph?  Obviously I'm talking about how they normally break, in first gear.  Hardly suicidal.

Or if axle breakage scares you, put a set of tapered axles in and stop worrying so much.  Or we can change my example (and that's all it was) to "a broken set of points is a minor inconvenience" if it will return sanity to the discussion!

- Steve Simmons, TC8975

On August 15, 2017 1:14:13 AM "Clive P Sherriff" csherriff99@gmail.com wrote:

Steve,   Give up on this, If you think [b]"A broken axle is a minor inconvenience[/b][b],"[/b]  at 65 mph say, then you are quite clearly suicidal and well beyond saving     Clive   m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm   ----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] mail@mgnuts.com%20[mg-tabc] [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, August 14, 2017 6:09 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)   All fair points, but I think the issue is with parts that could kill you if they failed.  A broken axle [shaft] is a minor inconvenience, but a broken steering component can kill you and whoever you consequently run into.  I don't think anyone is in this hobby thinking that it's ok if it kills them!  We take a risk by driving a car with no modern safety equipment in place, but I think it's reasonable to expect that the steering system will remain in one piece.  If I drive myself off a cliff then ok, but I'd rather it be my mistake than a failed steering arm! - Steve Simmons, TC8975 On 8/14/2017 9:57 AM, Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] wrote:   Safety?! Give me a break here.  It is a 70 year old car made of wood with a steel tube pointed at the drivers chest and a fuel tank as a rear bumper.  Lighting barely visible after dark, a chassis known to develop stress cracks, rear axles known to break, front spindles that crack and a crank shaft that sometimes breaks across a counter weight.  Made of materials scrounged after a war built with technology from well before. I am sorry I just cannot worry too much about the quality and traceability in manufacturing from raw material to end product.  We are lucky we can still get parts and keep these old crocks on the road for awhile longer.  By simply driving these  vehicles you are assuming a great deal of risk and if this is a big problem, maybe time to choose a different hobby. Steve TC2911, driving a car as old as I am. [b]From:[/b] %27Usaj24@earthlink.net%27usaj24@earthlink.net[mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com [b]To:[/b] Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, August 14, 2017 9:27 AM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)   Tweed, No worries, there can never be enough discussion about how or why things break, and preventive measures.   Personally I tend to worry more about fitting aftermarket critical parts with unknown QC issues. However this line of thinking should be more relevant today when NOS OEM  critical parts are becoming unobtanium, and who knows where today's parts are sourced and what level of QC they went through from A to Z. Those touting VALUE of items like OEM VW steering components  should be be promoting advantages they offer in the way of safety in the way of high levels of OEM QC (Quality  Control) and traceability in mfg. process from raw material to end product. Too many vintage critical parts are sourced from suppliers in third world countries based on cost, not degree of quality testing provided throughout mfg. supply chain. Bill TC 4926 Sent from my iPad On Aug 13, 2017, at 9:24 PM, Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   I hope this does not kick off another debate on the merits or otherwise of the VW box over the BC, but after reading a very interesting article by a Mike James in John James' 'Totally T type' on aftermarket drop arms , I'm curious.      I'm in the process of replacing the busted VW steering box in 0632 and the drop or Pitman arm supplied with the  replacement is totally different to the one on the old unit. Both units are made by TWR, but the old drop arm is a VW original.     Not only is it shorter, but it does not have the same amount of 'offset'.  Also, the tapered hole to accept the rod end is  the other way up ... on the 'old' one, the rod end is mounted on the top and secured from below.    Pro! bably the biggest argument against changing from a BC box is the increased number of turns lock to lock, so having a shorter arm can only exasperate that.    While the use of a longer arm won't reduce the number of turns, it would make for less movement of the wheel to achieve the same amount of lock at the hub  .... so in effect, making for a slightly 'quicker' box.   Or am I talking out of the top of my head?  Tweed.    

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[Steve S]

Well I tried to apologize for something I didn't do, and I still don't understand where this is all coming from, but whatever the cause it would be nice to put it to bed. If you would like to discuss anything further, it should be done off list. You have my email address and are always welcome to contact me. Maybe we can talk about drinking a virtual beer together. Have a good one, - Steve, who is busy researching a relative who chose to be buried in his car! PS... I'm probably the youngest person on this list! On 8/15/2017 3:14 PM, 'Clive P Sherriff' csherriff99@gmail.com [mg-tabc] wrote:

Bitterness ? Picking a fight ? Antagonism ? Not from me old chap. And yes I am agreeing with you for G's sake Steve, you are clearly getting too old and demented for this, give it a rest. Clive = ======================================== ----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] mail@mgnuts.com [b]To:[/b] csherriff99@gmail.com ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, August 15, 2017 5:30 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once) Clive, I don't know what all the bitterness is about but I'm truly sorry you feel that way. Nor am I clear why you're looking to pick a fight where none was intended. It's obvious that my (well intentioned) comment was about axle shafts / half shafts, not the axle housing or a front axle. If you scroll down to read it again you may realize it was intended as polite discussion, not antagonism. And no, I've never seen a TC axle housing or front axle break at speed but yes, I'm sure I would notice if it had. If you have them, I'd love to see photos of the ones you've seen break and hear how it happened, as I'm sure others would. Surely an extremely rare event that we could all learn from. As for the discussion, I actually thought I was agreeing with you but I must have struck a nerve somewhere, so I apologize. Or perhaps you've confused me with the other Steve in this thread, Steve Stierman, who I believe has an opinion contrary to mine. I wasn't the one who brought up safety and quality control, and the reply you're picking on me for (over terminology of all things) wasn't actually to you. I was respectfully replying to the other Steve, and agreeing with Bill that safety critical components like drop arms should be manufactured to adequate specification. If you disagree with that then I guess we do disagree on something, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion like everyone else. And just to be clear... yes, I know what a half shaft / axle shaft is but I suspect you already know that. And I also suspect you know that "snapping an axle" is a common term referring to half shafts. Incidentally, Bob Grunau's tapered half shafts are listed in his catalog as "TA/TC tapered rear axles with key and nut" so apparently he doesn't know what an half shaft is either! (joke) I still agree with Bill who stated "there can never be enough discussion about how or why things break, and preventive measures". But I guess we can't do that here anymore. Pity. - Steve Simmons, TC8975 (who runs Bob's wonderful tapered axles / half shafts / axle shafts, as well as his front spindles and spin on adapter) On 8/15/2017 3:18 AM, Clive P Sherriff wrote: Dear Steve, Let's not get up tight about this Yes I have had a TABC Type axle break at 65 mph. and in another historic car, a rear axle disintergrate at over 130mph. Have you ? It's no trivial matter. By your flippant reply I can only assume you have not. Or perhaps you just did not notice? Anyway, I suspect the confusion is that you don't know what an "axle" is and that what you actually mean is a half shaft. And a tapered half shaft is not going to stop an axle breaking, front or rear ! Either way I still maintain that it is a prime requirement that suppliers should employ more than sufficient quality control and sampling to ensure all their products are safe to use, dimensionally correct, employ the correct and correctly treated materials, and are fit for purpose. Many do not seem to do this and just sell on what they order in regardless. All Best Clive Oxford UK. m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] mail@mgnuts.com [b]To:[/b] csherriff99@gmail.com ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, August 15, 2017 9:32 AM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once) Have you ever seen an axle break at 65 mph? Obviously I'm talking about how they normally break, in first gear. Hardly suicidal.

Or if axle breakage scares you, put a set of tapered axles in and stop worrying so much. Or we can change my example (and that's all it was) to "a broken set of points is a minor inconvenience" if it will return sanity to the discussion!

- Steve Simmons, TC8975

On August 15, 2017 1:14:13 AM "Clive P Sherriff" csherriff99@gmail.com wrote:

Steve, Give up on this, If you think [b]"A broken axle is a minor inconvenience[/b][b],"[/b] at 65 mph say, then you are quite clearly suicidal and well beyond saving Clive m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] mail@mgnuts.com%20[mg-tabc] [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, August 14, 2017 6:09 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once) All fair points, but I think the issue is with parts that could kill you if they failed. A broken axle [shaft] is a minor inconvenience, but a broken steering component can kill you and whoever you consequently run into. I don't think anyone is in this hobby thinking that it's ok if it kills them! We take a risk by driving a car with no modern safety equipment in place, but I think it's reasonable to expect that the steering system will remain in one piece. If I drive myself off a cliff then ok, but I'd rather it be my mistake than a failed steering arm! - Steve Simmons, TC8975 On 8/14/2017 9:57 AM, Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] wrote: Safety?! Give me a break here. It is a 70 year old car made of wood with a steel tube pointed at the drivers chest and a fuel tank as a rear bumper. Lighting barely visible after dark, a chassis known to develop stress cracks, rear axles known to break, front spindles that crack and a crank shaft that sometimes breaks across a counter weight. Made of materials scrounged after a war built with technology from well before. I am sorry I just cannot worry too much about the quality and traceability in manufacturing from raw material to end product. We are lucky we can still get parts and keep these old crocks on the road for awhile longer. By simply driving these vehicles you are assuming a great deal of risk and if this is a big problem, maybe time to choose a different hobby. Steve TC2911, driving a car as old as I am. [b]From:[/b] %27Usaj24@earthlink.net%27usaj24@earthlink.net[mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com [b]To:[/b] Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, August 14, 2017 9:27 AM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once) Tweed, No worries, there can never be enough discussion about how or why things break, and preventive measures. Personally I tend to worry more about fitting aftermarket critical parts with unknown QC issues. However this line of thinking should be more relevant today when NOS OEM critical parts are becoming unobtanium, and who knows where today's parts are sourced and what level of QC they went through from A to Z. Those touting VALUE of items like OEM VW steering components should be be promoting advantages they offer in the way of safety in the way of high levels of OEM QC (Quality Control) and traceability in mfg. process from raw material to end product. Too many vintage critical parts are sourced from suppliers in third world countries based on cost, not degree of quality testing provided throughout mfg. supply chain. Bill TC 4926 Sent from my iPad On Aug 13, 2017, at 9:24 PM, Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: I hope this does not kick off another debate on the merits or otherwise of the VW box over the BC, but after reading a very interesting article by a Mike James in John James' 'Totally T type' on aftermarket drop arms , I'm curious. I'm in the process of replacing the busted VW steering box in 0632 and the drop or Pitman arm supplied with the replacement is totally different to the one on the old unit. Both units are made by TWR, but the old drop arm is a VW original. Not only is it shorter, but it does not have the same amount of 'offset'. Also, the tapered hole to accept the rod end is the other way up ... on the 'old' one, the rod end is mounted on the top and secured from below. Pro! bably the biggest argument against changing from a BC box is the increased number of turns lock to lock, so having a shorter arm can only exasperate that. While the use of a longer arm won't reduce the number of turns, it would make for less movement of the wheel to achieve the same amount of lock at the hub .... so in effect, making for a slightly 'quicker' box. Or am I talking out of the top of my head? Tweed.

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[Mark & Sheila Masters]

Talk about two grumpy old men!Put a sock in it both of you MarkNZ

On 16Aug, 2017, at 10:24, Steve S mail@mgnuts.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Well I tried to apologize for something I didn't do, and I still don't understand where this is all coming from, but whatever the cause it would be nice to put it to bed.  If you would like to discuss anything further, it should be done off list.  You have my email address and are always welcome to contact me.  Maybe we can talk about drinking a virtual beer together.

Have a good one,

- Steve, who is busy researching a relative who chose to be buried in his car!

PS... I'm probably the youngest person on this list! 

On 8/15/2017 3:14 PM, 'Clive P Sherriff' csherriff99@gmail.com [mg-tabc] wrote:  

Bitterness ? Picking a fight ? Antagonism  ? Not from me old chap.  And yes I am agreeing with you for G's sake Steve, you are clearly getting too old and demented for this, give it a rest. Clive = ========================================----- Original Message ----- From: mail@mgnuts.comTo: csherriff99@gmail.com ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.comSent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 5:30 PMSubject: Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once) Clive, I don't know what all the bitterness is about but I'm truly sorry you feel that way.  Nor am I clear why you're looking to pick a fight where none was intended.  It's obvious that my (well intentioned) comment was about axle shafts / half shafts, not the axle housing or a front axle.  If you scroll down to read it again you may realize it was intended as polite discussion, not antagonism.   And no, I've never seen a TC axle housing or front axle break at speed but yes, I'm sure I would notice if it had.  If you have them, I'd love to see photos of the ones you've seen break and hear how it happened, as I'm sure others would.  Surely an extremely rare event that we could all learn from. As for the discussion, I actually thought I was agreeing with you but I must have struck a nerve somewhere, so I apologize.  Or perhaps you've confused me with the other Steve in this thread, Steve Stierman, who I believe has an opinion contrary to mine.  I wasn't the one who brought up safety and quality control, and the reply you're picking on me for (over terminology of all things) wasn't actually to you.  I was respectfully replying to the other Steve, and agreeing with Bill that safety critical components like drop arms should be manufactured to adequate specification.  If you disagree with that then I guess we do disagree on something, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion like everyone else. And just to be clear... yes, I know what a half shaft / axle shaft is but I suspect you already know that.  And I also suspect you know that "snapping an axle" is a common term referring to half shafts.  Incidentally, Bob Grunau's tapered half shafts are listed in his catalog as "TA/TC tapered rear axles with key and nut" so apparently he doesn't know what an half shaft is either!  (joke) I still agree with Bill who stated "there can never be enough discussion about how or why things break, and preventive measures".  But I guess we can't do that here anymore.  Pity. - Steve Simmons, TC8975 (who runs Bob's wonderful tapered axles / half shafts / axle shafts, as well as his front spindles and spin on adapter) On 8/15/2017 3:18 AM, Clive P Sherriff wrote: Dear Steve, Let's not get up tight about this Yes I have had a TABC Type axle break at 65 mph.   and in another historic car, a rear axle disintergrate at over 130mph.   Have you ?   It's no trivial matter. By your flippant reply I can only assume you have not.  Or perhaps you just did not notice?   Anyway, I suspect the confusion is that you don't know what an "axle" is and that what you actually mean is a half shaft.  And a tapered half shaft is not going to stop an axle breaking, front or rear ! Either way I still maintain that it is a prime requirement that suppliers should employ more than sufficient quality control and sampling to ensure all their products are safe to use, dimensionally correct, employ the correct and correctly treated materials, and are fit for purpose.  Many do not seem to do this and just sell on what they order in regardless. All Best CliveOxford UK. m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm----- Original Message ----- From: mail@mgnuts.comTo: csherriff99@gmail.com ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.comSent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 9:32 AMSubject: Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once) Have you ever seen an axle break at 65 mph?  Obviously I'm talking about how they normally break, in first gear.  Hardly suicidal.

Or if axle breakage scares you, put a set of tapered axles in and stop worrying so much.  Or we can change my example (and that's all it was) to "a broken set of points is a minor inconvenience" if it will return sanity to the discussion!

- Steve Simmons, TC8975

On August 15, 2017 1:14:13 AM "Clive P Sherriff" csherriff99@gmail.com wrote:

Steve,  Give up on this, If you think "A broken axle is a minor inconvenience,"  at 65 mph say, then you are quite clearly suicidal and well beyond saving    Clive m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ----- Original Message ----- From: mail@mgnuts.com%20[mg-tabc]To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.comSent: Monday, August 14, 2017 6:09 PMSubject: Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)  All fair points, but I think the issue is with parts that could kill you if they failed.  A broken axle [shaft] is a minor inconvenience, but a broken steering component can kill you and whoever you consequently run into.  I don't think anyone is in this hobby thinking that it's ok if it kills them!  We take a risk by driving a car with no modern safety equipment in place, but I think it's reasonable to expect that the steering system will remain in one piece.  If I drive myself off a cliff then ok, but I'd rather it be my mistake than a failed steering arm!

- Steve Simmons, TC8975

On 8/14/2017 9:57 AM, Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] wrote:  Safety?! Give me a break here.  It is a 70 year old car made of wood with a steel tube pointed at the drivers chest and a fuel tank as a rear bumper.  Lighting barely visible after dark, a chassis known to develop stress cracks, rear axles known to break, front spindles that crack and a crank shaft that sometimes breaks across a counter weight.  Made of materials scrounged after a war built with technology from well before.I am sorry I just cannot worry too much about the quality and traceability in manufacturing from raw material to end product.  We are lucky we can still get parts and keep these old crocks on the road for awhile longer.  By simply driving these  vehicles you are assuming a great deal of risk and if this is a big problem, maybe time to choose a different hobby. Steve TC2911, driving a car as old as I am. From: %27Usaj24@earthlink.net%27usaj24@earthlink.net[mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com To: Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk  Cc: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)  Tweed,No worries, there can never be enough discussion about how or why things break, and preventive measures.  Personally I tend to worry more about fitting aftermarket critical parts with unknown QC issues. However this line of thinking should be more relevant today when NOS OEM  critical parts are becoming unobtanium, and who knows where today's parts are sourced and what level of QC they went through from A to Z.Those touting VALUE of items like OEM VW steering components  should be be promoting advantages they offer in the way of safety in the way of high levels of OEM QC (Quality  Control) and traceability in mfg. process from raw material to end product.Too many vintage critical parts are sourced from suppliers in third world countries based on cost, not degree of quality testing provided throughout mfg. supply chain. BillTC 4926 Sent from my iPad On Aug 13, 2017, at 9:24 PM, Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:  I hope this does not kick off another debate on the merits or otherwise of the VW box over the BC, but after reading a very interesting article by a Mike James in John James' 'Totally T type' on aftermarket drop arms , I'm curious.      I'm in the process of replacing the busted VW steering box in 0632 and the drop or Pitman arm supplied with the replacement is totally different to the one on the old unit. Both units are made by TWR, but the old drop arm is a VW original.   Not only is it shorter, but it does not have the same amount of 'offset'.  Also, the tapered hole to accept the rod end is  the other way up ... on the 'old' one, the rod end is mounted on the top and secured from below.  Pro! bably the biggest argument against changing from a BC box is the increased number of turns lock to lock, so having a shorter arm can only exasperate that.   While the use of a longer arm won't reduce the number of turns, it would make for less movement of the wheel to achieve the same amount of lock at the hub  .... so in effect, making for a slightly 'quicker' box.   Or am I talking out of the top of my head?  Tweed.    

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[Ron Zeraldo]

Steve, your replies are always written in a positive manner with no malice of any kind...respectful & backed with plenty of knowledge & first hand experience...you have apologized for something you didn t do, your suggestion to put it to bed is the best....you are the bigger man in my mind! I like your style!

 

BTW you just might not be the youngest person on this list! (It could be me!) & the list needs more of us!

 

Best Regards,

Ron

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Steve S mail@mgnuts.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, August 15, 2017 6:25 PM [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)

 

 

Well I tried to apologize for something I didn't do, and I still don't understand where this is all coming from, but whatever the cause it would be nice to put it to bed.  If you would like to discuss anything further, it should be done off list.  You have my email address and are always welcome to contact me.  Maybe we can talk about drinking a virtual beer together. Have a good one, - Steve, who is busy researching a relative who chose to be buried in his car! PS... I'm probably the youngest person on this list!   

On 8/15/2017 3:14 PM, 'Clive P Sherriff' csherriff99@gmail.com [mg-tabc] wrote:

 

Bitterness ?

 

Picking a fight ?

 

Antagonism  ?

 

Not from me old chap.  And yes I am agreeing with you for G's sake

 

Steve, you are clearly getting too old and demented for this, give it a rest.

 

Clive

 = ========================================

----- Original Message -----

[b]From:[/b] mail@mgnuts.com

[b]To:[/b] csherriff99@gmail.com ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com

[b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, August 15, 2017 5:30 PM

[b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)

 

Clive, I don't know what all the bitterness is about but I'm truly sorry you feel that way.  Nor am I clear why you're looking to pick a fight where none was intended.  It's obvious that my (well intentioned) comment was about axle shafts / half shafts, not the axle housing or a front axle.  If you scroll down to read it again you may realize it was intended as polite discussion, not antagonism.   And no, I've never seen a TC axle housing or front axle break at speed but yes, I'm sure I would notice if it had.  If you have them, I'd love to see photos of the ones you've seen break and hear how it happened, as I'm sure others would.  Surely an extremely rare event that we could all learn from. As for the discussion, I actually thought I was agreeing with you but I must have struck a nerve somewhere, so I apologize.  Or perhaps you've confused me with the other Steve in this thread, Steve Stierman, who I believe has an opinion contrary to mine.  I wasn't the one who brought up safety and quality control, and the reply you're picking on me for (over terminology of all things) wasn't actually to you.  I was respectfully replying to the other Steve, and agreeing with Bill that safety critical components like drop arms should be manufactured to adequate specification.  If you disagree with that then I guess we do disagree on something, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion like everyone else. And just to be clear... yes, I know what a half shaft / axle shaft is but I suspect you already know that.  And I also suspect you know that "snapping an axle" is a common term referring to half shafts.  Incidentally, Bob Grunau's tapered half shafts are listed in his catalog as "TA/TC tapered rear axles with key and nut" so apparently he doesn't know what an half shaft is either!  (joke) I still agree with Bill who stated "there can never be enough discussion about how or why things break, and preventive measures".  But I guess we can't do that here anymore.  Pity. - Steve Simmons, TC8975 (who runs Bob's wonderful tapered axles / half shafts / axle shafts, as well as his front spindles and spin on adapter)

On 8/15/2017 3:18 AM, Clive P Sherriff wrote:

Dear Steve,

 

Let's not get up tight about this

 

Yes I have had a TABC Type axle break at 65 mph.   and in another historic car, a rear axle disintergrate at over 130mph.   Have you ?   It's no trivial matter.

 

By your flippant reply I can only assume you have not.  Or perhaps you just did not notice? 

 

Anyway, I suspect the confusion is that you don't know what an "axle" is and that what you actually mean is a half shaft.  And a tapered half shaft is not going to stop an axle breaking, front or rear !

 

Either way I still maintain that it is a prime requirement that suppliers should employ more than sufficient quality control and sampling to ensure all their products are safe to use, dimensionally correct, employ the correct and correctly treated materials, and are fit for purpose.  Many do not seem to do this and just sell on what they order in regardless.

 

All Best

 

Clive

Oxford UK .

 

m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

----- Original Message -----

[b]From:[/b] mail@mgnuts.com

[b]To:[/b] csherriff99@gmail.com ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com

[b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, August 15, 2017 9:32 AM

[b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)

 

Have you ever seen an axle break at 65 mph?  Obviously I'm talking about how they normally break, in first gear.  Hardly suicidal.

Or if axle breakage scares you, put a set of tapered axles in and stop worrying so much.  Or we can change my example (and that's all it was) to "a broken set of points is a minor inconvenience" if it will return sanity to the discussion!

- Steve Simmons, TC8975

On August 15, 2017 1:14:13 AM "Clive P Sherriff" csherriff99@gmail.com wrote:

Steve,

 

Give up on this, If you think [b]"A broken axle is a minor inconvenience[/b][b],"[/b]  at 65 mph

say, then you are quite clearly suicidal and well beyond saving  

 

Clive

 

m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

----- Original Message -----

[b]From:[/b] mail@mgnuts.com%20%5bmg-tabc%5d

[b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com

[b]Sent:[/b] Monday, August 14, 2017 6:09 PM

[b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)

 

 

All fair points, but I think the issue is with parts that could kill you if they failed.  A broken axle [shaft] is a minor inconvenience, but a broken steering component can kill you and whoever you consequently run into.  I don't think anyone is in this hobby thinking that it's ok if it kills them!  We take a risk by driving a car with no modern safety equipment in place, but I think it's reasonable to expect that the steering system will remain in one piece.  If I drive myself off a cliff then ok, but I'd rather it be my mistake than a failed steering arm! - Steve Simmons, TC8975  

On 8/14/2017 9:57 AM, Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] wrote:

 

Safety?! Give me a break here.  It is a 70 year old car made of wood with a steel tube pointed at the drivers chest and a fuel tank as a rear bumper.  Lighting barely visible after dark, a chassis known to develop stress cracks, rear axles known to break, front spindles that crack and a crank shaft that sometimes breaks across a counter weight.  Made of materials scrounged after a war built with technology from well before.

I am sorry I just cannot worry too much about the quality and traceability in manufacturing from raw material to end product.  We are lucky we can still get parts and keep these old crocks on the road for awhile longer.  By simply driving these  vehicles you are assuming a great deal of risk and if this is a big problem, maybe time to choose a different hobby.

 

Steve TC2911, driving a car as old as I am.

[b]From:[/b] %27Usaj24@earthlink.net%27usaj24@earthlink.net%5bmg-tabc%5d mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com [b]To:[/b] Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, August 14, 2017 9:27 AM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)

 

 

Tweed,

No worries, there can never be enough discussion about how or why things break, and preventive measures.  

Personally I tend to worry more about fitting aftermarket critical parts with unknown QC issues. However this line of thinking should be more relevant today when NOS OEM  critical parts are becoming unobtanium, and who knows where today's parts are sourced and what level of QC they went through from A to Z.

Those touting VALUE of items like OEM VW steering components  should be be promoting advantages they offer in the way of safety in the way of high levels of OEM QC (Quality  Control) and traceability in mfg. process from raw material to end product.

Too many vintage critical parts are sourced from suppliers in third world countries based on cost, not degree of quality testing provided throughout mfg. supply chain.

 

Bill

TC 4926

 

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 13, 2017, at 9:24 PM, Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

I hope this does not kick off another debate on the merits or otherwise of the VW box over the BC, but after reading a very interesting article by a Mike James in John James' 'Totally T type' on aftermarket drop arms , I'm curious.     

 

I'm in the process of replacing the busted VW steering box in 0632 and the drop or Pitman arm supplied with the 

replacement is totally different to the one on the old unit. Both units are made by TWR, but the old drop arm is a VW original. 

  

Not only is it shorter, but it does not have the same amount of 'offset'.  Also, the tapered hole to accept the rod end is  the other way up ... on the 'old' one, the rod end is mounted on the top and secured from below. 

 

Pro! bably the biggest argument against changing from a BC box is the increased number of turns lock to lock, so having a shorter arm can only exasperate that.   

While the use of a longer arm won't reduce the number of turns, it would make for less movement of the wheel to achieve the same amount of lock at the hub  .... so in effect, making for a slightly 'quicker' box.  

 

Or am I talking out of the top of my head? 

 

Tweed. 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Virus-free. [color=#4453ea]www.avast.com[i][/url][/i] [/color]

 

 

[Rothgene]

I know Steve, he is a fine young man and his wife Linda bakes great cookies, etc. Gene Roth   [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of 'Ron Zeraldo' rjzer@sprynet.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, August 16, 2017 12:30 AM [b]To:[/b] 'Steve S' [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)     Steve, your replies are always written in a positive manner with no malice of any kind...respectful & backed with plenty of knowledge & first hand experience...you have apologized for something you didn t do, your suggestion to put it to bed is the best....you are the bigger man in my mind! I like your style!

 

BTW you just might not be the youngest person on this list! (It could be me!) & the list needs more of us!

 

Best Regards,

Ron     

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Steve S mail@mgnuts.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, August 15, 2017 6:25 PM [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)

 

 

Well I tried to apologize for something I didn't do, and I still don't understand where this is all coming from, but whatever the cause it would be nice to put it to bed.  If you would like to discuss anything further, it should be done off list.  You have my email address and are always welcome to contact me.  Maybe we can talk about drinking a virtual beer together. Have a good one, - Steve, who is busy researching a relative who chose to be buried in his car! PS... I'm probably the youngest person on this list!   

On 8/15/2017 3:14 PM, 'Clive P Sherriff' csherriff99@gmail.com [mg-tabc] wrote:

 

Bitterness ?

 

Picking a fight ?

 

Antagonism  ?

 

Not from me old chap.  And yes I am agreeing with you for G's sake

 

Steve, you are clearly getting too old and demented for this, give it a rest.

 

Clive

 = ========================================

----- Original Message -----

[b]From:[/b] mail@mgnuts.com

[b]To:[/b] csherriff99@gmail.com ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com

[b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, August 15, 2017 5:30 PM

[b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)

 

Clive, I don't know what all the bitterness is about but I'm truly sorry you feel that way.  Nor am I clear why you're looking to pick a fight where none was intended.  It's obvious that my (well intentioned) comment was about axle shafts / half shafts, not the axle housing or a front axle.  If you scroll down to read it again you may realize it was intended as polite discussion, not antagonism.   And no, I've never seen a TC axle housing or front axle break at speed but yes, I'm sure I would notice if it had.  If you have them, I'd love to see photos of the ones you've seen break and hear how it happened, as I'm sure others would.  Surely an extremely rare event that we could all learn from. As for the discussion, I actually thought I was agreeing with you but I must have struck a nerve somewhere, so I apologize.  Or perhaps you've confused me with the other Steve in this thread, Steve Stierman, who I believe has an opinion contrary to mine.  I wasn't the one who brought up safety and quality control, and the reply you're picking on me for (over terminology of all things) wasn't actually to you.  I was respectfully replying to the other Steve, and agreeing with Bill that safety critical components like drop arms should be manufactured to adequate specification.  If you disagree with that then I guess we do disagree on something, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion like everyone else. And just to be clear... yes, I know what a half shaft / axle shaft is but I suspect you already know that.  And I also suspect you know that "snapping an axle" is a common term referring to half shafts.  Incidentally, Bob Grunau's tapered half shafts are listed in his catalog as "TA/TC tapered rear axles with key and nut" so apparently he doesn't know what an half shaft is either!  (joke) I still agree with Bill who stated "there can never be enough discussion about how or why things break, and preventive measures".  But I guess we can't do that here anymore.  Pity. - Steve Simmons, TC8975 (who runs Bob's wonderful tapered axles / half shafts / axle shafts, as well as his front spindles and spin on adapter)

On 8/15/2017 3:18 AM, Clive P Sherriff wrote:

Dear Steve,

 

Let's not get up tight about this

 

Yes I have had a TABC Type axle break at 65 mph.   and in another historic car, a rear axle disintergrate at over 130mph.   Have you ?   It's no trivial matter.

 

By your flippant reply I can only assume you have not.  Or perhaps you just did not notice? 

 

Anyway, I suspect the confusion is that you don't know what an "axle" is and that what you actually mean is a half shaft.  And a tapered half shaft is not going to stop an axle breaking, front or rear !

 

Either way I still maintain that it is a prime requirement that suppliers should employ more than sufficient quality control and sampling to ensure all their products are safe to use, dimensionally correct, employ the correct and correctly treated materials, and are fit for purpose.  Many do not seem to do this and just sell on what they order in regardless.

 

All Best

 

Clive

Oxford UK.

 

m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

----- Original Message -----

[b]From:[/b] mail@mgnuts.com

[b]To:[/b] csherriff99@gmail.com ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com

[b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, August 15, 2017 9:32 AM

[b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)

 

Have you ever seen an axle break at 65 mph?  Obviously I'm talking about how they normally break, in first gear.  Hardly suicidal.

Or if axle breakage scares you, put a set of tapered axles in and stop worrying so much.  Or we can change my example (and that's all it was) to "a broken set of points is a minor inconvenience" if it will return sanity to the discussion!

- Steve Simmons, TC8975

On August 15, 2017 1:14:13 AM "Clive P Sherriff" csherriff99@gmail.com wrote:

Steve,

 

Give up on this, If you think [b]"A broken axle is a minor inconvenience[/b][b],"[/b]  at 65 mph

say, then you are quite clearly suicidal and well beyond saving  

 

Clive

 

m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

----- Original Message -----

[b]From:[/b] mail@mgnuts.com%20%5bmg-tabc%5d

[b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com

[b]Sent:[/b] Monday, August 14, 2017 6:09 PM

[b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)

 

 

All fair points, but I think the issue is with parts that could kill you if they failed.  A broken axle [shaft] is a minor inconvenience, but a broken steering component can kill you and whoever you consequently run into.  I don't think anyone is in this hobby thinking that it's ok if it kills them!  We take a risk by driving a car with no modern safety equipment in place, but I think it's reasonable to expect that the steering system will remain in one piece.  If I drive myself off a cliff then ok, but I'd rather it be my mistake than a failed steering arm! - Steve Simmons, TC8975  

On 8/14/2017 9:57 AM, Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] wrote:

 

Safety?! Give me a break here.  It is a 70 year old car made of wood with a steel tube pointed at the drivers chest and a fuel tank as a rear bumper.  Lighting barely visible after dark, a chassis known to develop stress cracks, rear axles known to break, front spindles that crack and a crank shaft that sometimes breaks across a counter weight.  Made of materials scrounged after a war built with technology from well before.

I am sorry I just cannot worry too much about the quality and traceability in manufacturing from raw material to end product.  We are lucky we can still get parts and keep these old crocks on the road for awhile longer.  By simply driving these  vehicles you are assuming a great deal of risk and if this is a big problem, maybe time to choose a different hobby.

 

Steve TC2911, driving a car as old as I am.

[b]From:[/b] %27Usaj24@earthlink.net%27usaj24@earthlink.net%5bmg-tabc%5d mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com [b]To:[/b] Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, August 14, 2017 9:27 AM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)

 

 

Tweed,

No worries, there can never be enough discussion about how or why things break, and preventive measures.  

Personally I tend to worry more about fitting aftermarket critical parts with unknown QC issues. However this line of thinking should be more relevant today when NOS OEM  critical parts are becoming unobtanium, and who knows where today's parts are sourced and what level of QC they went through from A to Z.

Those touting VALUE of items like OEM VW steering components  should be be promoting advantages they offer in the way of safety in the way of high levels of OEM QC (Quality  Control) and traceability in mfg. process from raw material to end product.

Too many vintage critical parts are sourced from suppliers in third world countries based on cost, not degree of quality testing provided throughout mfg. supply chain.

 

Bill

TC 4926

 

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 13, 2017, at 9:24 PM, Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

I hope this does not kick off another debate on the merits or otherwise of the VW box over the BC, but after reading a very interesting article by a Mike James in John James' 'Totally T type' on aftermarket drop arms , I'm curious.     

 

I'm in the process of replacing the busted VW steering box in 0632 and the drop or Pitman arm supplied with the 

replacement is totally different to the one on the old unit. Both units are made by TWR, but the old drop arm is a VW original. 

  

Not only is it shorter, but it does not have the same amount of 'offset'.  Also, the tapered hole to accept the rod end is  the other way up ... on the 'old' one, the rod end is mounted on the top and secured from below. 

 

Pro! bably the biggest argument against changing from a BC box is the increased number of turns lock to lock, so having a shorter arm can only exasperate that.   

While the use of a longer arm won't reduce the number of turns, it would make for less movement of the wheel to achieve the same amount of lock at the hub  .... so in effect, making for a slightly 'quicker' box.  

 

Or am I talking out of the top of my head? 

 

Tweed. 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Virus-free. [color=#4453ea]www.avast.com[i][/url][/i] [/color]

 

 

[Rothgene]

I know Steve, he is a fine young man and his wife Linda bakes great cookies, etc. Gene Roth   [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of 'Ron Zeraldo' rjzer@sprynet.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, August 16, 2017 12:30 AM [b]To:[/b] 'Steve S' [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)     Steve, your replies are always written in a positive manner with no malice of any kind...respectful & backed with plenty of knowledge & first hand experience...you have apologized for something you didn t do, your suggestion to put it to bed is the best....you are the bigger man in my mind! I like your style!

 

BTW you just might not be the youngest person on this list! (It could be me!) & the list needs more of us!

 

Best Regards,

Ron     

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Steve S mail@mgnuts.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, August 15, 2017 6:25 PM [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)

 

 

Well I tried to apologize for something I didn't do, and I still don't understand where this is all coming from, but whatever the cause it would be nice to put it to bed.  If you would like to discuss anything further, it should be done off list.  You have my email address and are always welcome to contact me.  Maybe we can talk about drinking a virtual beer together. Have a good one, - Steve, who is busy researching a relative who chose to be buried in his car! PS... I'm probably the youngest person on this list!   

On 8/15/2017 3:14 PM, 'Clive P Sherriff' csherriff99@gmail.com [mg-tabc] wrote:

 

Bitterness ?

 

Picking a fight ?

 

Antagonism  ?

 

Not from me old chap.  And yes I am agreeing with you for G's sake

 

Steve, you are clearly getting too old and demented for this, give it a rest.

 

Clive

 = ========================================

----- Original Message -----

[b]From:[/b] mail@mgnuts.com

[b]To:[/b] csherriff99@gmail.com ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com

[b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, August 15, 2017 5:30 PM

[b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)

 

Clive, I don't know what all the bitterness is about but I'm truly sorry you feel that way.  Nor am I clear why you're looking to pick a fight where none was intended.  It's obvious that my (well intentioned) comment was about axle shafts / half shafts, not the axle housing or a front axle.  If you scroll down to read it again you may realize it was intended as polite discussion, not antagonism.   And no, I've never seen a TC axle housing or front axle break at speed but yes, I'm sure I would notice if it had.  If you have them, I'd love to see photos of the ones you've seen break and hear how it happened, as I'm sure others would.  Surely an extremely rare event that we could all learn from. As for the discussion, I actually thought I was agreeing with you but I must have struck a nerve somewhere, so I apologize.  Or perhaps you've confused me with the other Steve in this thread, Steve Stierman, who I believe has an opinion contrary to mine.  I wasn't the one who brought up safety and quality control, and the reply you're picking on me for (over terminology of all things) wasn't actually to you.  I was respectfully replying to the other Steve, and agreeing with Bill that safety critical components like drop arms should be manufactured to adequate specification.  If you disagree with that then I guess we do disagree on something, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion like everyone else. And just to be clear... yes, I know what a half shaft / axle shaft is but I suspect you already know that.  And I also suspect you know that "snapping an axle" is a common term referring to half shafts.  Incidentally, Bob Grunau's tapered half shafts are listed in his catalog as "TA/TC tapered rear axles with key and nut" so apparently he doesn't know what an half shaft is either!  (joke) I still agree with Bill who stated "there can never be enough discussion about how or why things break, and preventive measures".  But I guess we can't do that here anymore.  Pity. - Steve Simmons, TC8975 (who runs Bob's wonderful tapered axles / half shafts / axle shafts, as well as his front spindles and spin on adapter)

On 8/15/2017 3:18 AM, Clive P Sherriff wrote:

Dear Steve,

 

Let's not get up tight about this

 

Yes I have had a TABC Type axle break at 65 mph.   and in another historic car, a rear axle disintergrate at over 130mph.   Have you ?   It's no trivial matter.

 

By your flippant reply I can only assume you have not.  Or perhaps you just did not notice? 

 

Anyway, I suspect the confusion is that you don't know what an "axle" is and that what you actually mean is a half shaft.  And a tapered half shaft is not going to stop an axle breaking, front or rear !

 

Either way I still maintain that it is a prime requirement that suppliers should employ more than sufficient quality control and sampling to ensure all their products are safe to use, dimensionally correct, employ the correct and correctly treated materials, and are fit for purpose.  Many do not seem to do this and just sell on what they order in regardless.

 

All Best

 

Clive

Oxford UK.

 

m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

----- Original Message -----

[b]From:[/b] mail@mgnuts.com

[b]To:[/b] csherriff99@gmail.com ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com

[b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, August 15, 2017 9:32 AM

[b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)

 

Have you ever seen an axle break at 65 mph?  Obviously I'm talking about how they normally break, in first gear.  Hardly suicidal.

Or if axle breakage scares you, put a set of tapered axles in and stop worrying so much.  Or we can change my example (and that's all it was) to "a broken set of points is a minor inconvenience" if it will return sanity to the discussion!

- Steve Simmons, TC8975

On August 15, 2017 1:14:13 AM "Clive P Sherriff" csherriff99@gmail.com wrote:

Steve,

 

Give up on this, If you think [b]"A broken axle is a minor inconvenience[/b][b],"[/b]  at 65 mph

say, then you are quite clearly suicidal and well beyond saving  

 

Clive

 

m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

----- Original Message -----

[b]From:[/b] mail@mgnuts.com%20%5bmg-tabc%5d

[b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com

[b]Sent:[/b] Monday, August 14, 2017 6:09 PM

[b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)

 

 

All fair points, but I think the issue is with parts that could kill you if they failed.  A broken axle [shaft] is a minor inconvenience, but a broken steering component can kill you and whoever you consequently run into.  I don't think anyone is in this hobby thinking that it's ok if it kills them!  We take a risk by driving a car with no modern safety equipment in place, but I think it's reasonable to expect that the steering system will remain in one piece.  If I drive myself off a cliff then ok, but I'd rather it be my mistake than a failed steering arm! - Steve Simmons, TC8975  

On 8/14/2017 9:57 AM, Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] wrote:

 

Safety?! Give me a break here.  It is a 70 year old car made of wood with a steel tube pointed at the drivers chest and a fuel tank as a rear bumper.  Lighting barely visible after dark, a chassis known to develop stress cracks, rear axles known to break, front spindles that crack and a crank shaft that sometimes breaks across a counter weight.  Made of materials scrounged after a war built with technology from well before.

I am sorry I just cannot worry too much about the quality and traceability in manufacturing from raw material to end product.  We are lucky we can still get parts and keep these old crocks on the road for awhile longer.  By simply driving these  vehicles you are assuming a great deal of risk and if this is a big problem, maybe time to choose a different hobby.

 

Steve TC2911, driving a car as old as I am.

[b]From:[/b] %27Usaj24@earthlink.net%27usaj24@earthlink.net%5bmg-tabc%5d mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com [b]To:[/b] Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, August 14, 2017 9:27 AM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)

 

 

Tweed,

No worries, there can never be enough discussion about how or why things break, and preventive measures.  

Personally I tend to worry more about fitting aftermarket critical parts with unknown QC issues. However this line of thinking should be more relevant today when NOS OEM  critical parts are becoming unobtanium, and who knows where today's parts are sourced and what level of QC they went through from A to Z.

Those touting VALUE of items like OEM VW steering components  should be be promoting advantages they offer in the way of safety in the way of high levels of OEM QC (Quality  Control) and traceability in mfg. process from raw material to end product.

Too many vintage critical parts are sourced from suppliers in third world countries based on cost, not degree of quality testing provided throughout mfg. supply chain.

 

Bill

TC 4926

 

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 13, 2017, at 9:24 PM, Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

I hope this does not kick off another debate on the merits or otherwise of the VW box over the BC, but after reading a very interesting article by a Mike James in John James' 'Totally T type' on aftermarket drop arms , I'm curious.     

 

I'm in the process of replacing the busted VW steering box in 0632 and the drop or Pitman arm supplied with the 

replacement is totally different to the one on the old unit. Both units are made by TWR, but the old drop arm is a VW original. 

  

Not only is it shorter, but it does not have the same amount of 'offset'.  Also, the tapered hole to accept the rod end is  the other way up ... on the 'old' one, the rod end is mounted on the top and secured from below. 

 

Pro! bably the biggest argument against changing from a BC box is the increased number of turns lock to lock, so having a shorter arm can only exasperate that.   

While the use of a longer arm won't reduce the number of turns, it would make for less movement of the wheel to achieve the same amount of lock at the hub  .... so in effect, making for a slightly 'quicker' box.  

 

Or am I talking out of the top of my head? 

 

Tweed. 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Virus-free. [color=#4453ea]www.avast.com[i][/url][/i] [/color]

 

 

[John Davies]

Is anyone having emails - mine have stopped' Sent from my iPhone

On 14 Aug 2017, at 18:31, Roger Bateman rogerbateman@rocketmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  I have an Andy King VW conversion which has a bespoke drop arm, not a modified VW item.  It can only be fitted on the output spindle in one position, and incidentally the drag link ball is underneath and the nut above. Whilst on the subject of VW boxes, I don't think I have ever seen a reference to how to adjust them on MG sites.  I also have a '71 VW Type 2 campervan and so I looked in my workshop manual to see how the box should be adjusted and was surprised to find that it is done with the steering wheel turned 180 degrees from the centre position. The sequence is: 1. Disconnect drag link.2. Find steering centre position.3. Turn steering wheel 180 degrees to either right or left.4. Slacken adjuster lock nut.5. Turn adjuster screw with one hand whilst feeling for play in the drop arm with the other. 6. When all play is removed, tighten lock nut and reassemble drag link.   Forgive me if I have missed it if it is already on this forum, but I &n bsp;thought it worth mentioning. It worked for me! Roger BatemanTC2456 Roger Bateman 

[Norman Verona]

Did you get this?

 

 

[b][i]Norman Verona[/i][/b]

11 Cherry Close, Royston, South Yorkshire S71 4LZ

Phone: 0044 (0)1226 728811

Mob: 0044 (0)741 9905 741

[b][i]Web: www.frenchblat.com[/i][/b]

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]John Davies johnadavies11@btinternet.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] 07 September 2017 14:23 [b]To:[/b] Roger Bateman rogerbateman@rocketmail.com> [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)

 

 

Is anyone having emails - mine have stopped' Sent from my iPhone

On 14 Aug 2017, at 18:31, Roger Bateman rogerbateman@rocketmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

I have an Andy King VW conversion which has a bespoke drop arm, not a modified VW item.  It can only be fitted on the output spindle in one position, and incidentally the drag link ball is underneath and the nut above.

 

Whilst on the subject of VW boxes, I don't think I have ever seen a reference to how to adjust them on MG sites.  I also have a '71 VW Type 2 campervan and so I looked in my workshop manual to see how the box should be adjusted and was surprised to find that it is done with the steering wheel turned 180 degrees from the centre position.

 

The sequence is:

 

1. Disconnect drag link.

2. Find steering centre position.

3. Turn steering wheel 180 degrees to either right or left.

4. Slacken adjuster lock nut.

5. Turn adjuster screw with one hand whilst feeling for play in the drop arm with the other.

6. When all play is removed, tighten lock nut and reassemble drag link.

 

  Forgive me if I have missed it if it is already on this forum, but I &n bsp;thought it worth mentioning. It worked for me!

 

Roger Bateman

TC2456

 

Roger Bateman 

[LARDANS Claude]

Attachments : Yes, Norman, but last days there are very few messages.

All T types seem in good shape !!!

Mine is equipped with 4 new wire wheels since last month.

 

Best Regards to all,

 

Claude Lardans

TC6637

France

 

[b]De :[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]De la part de[/b] 'Norman Verona' norman@frenchblat.com [mg-tabc] [b]Envoy  :[/b] jeudi 7 septembre 2017 15:52 [b]  :[/b] 'John Davies'; 'Roger Bateman' [b]Cc :[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Objet :[/b] RE: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)

 

 

Did you get this?

 

 

[b][i]Norman Verona[/i][/b]

11 Cherry Close, Royston, South Yorkshire S71 4LZ

Phone: 0044 (0)1226 728811

Mob: 0044 (0)741 9905 741

[b][i]Web: www.frenchblat.com[/i][/b]

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]John Davies johnadavies11@btinternet.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] 07 September 2017 14:23 [b]To:[/b] Roger Bateman rogerbateman@rocketmail.com> [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)

 

 

Is anyone having emails - mine have stopped' Sent from my iPhone

On 14 Aug 2017, at 18:31, Roger Bateman rogerbateman@rocketmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

I have an Andy King VW conversion which has a bespoke drop arm, not a modified VW item.  It can only be fitted on the output spindle in one position, and incidentally the drag link ball is underneath and the nut above.

 

Whilst on the subject of VW boxes, I don't think I have ever seen a reference to how to adjust them on MG sites.  I also have a '71 VW Type 2 campervan and so I looked in my workshop manu al to see how the box should be adjusted and was surprised to find that it is done with the steering wheel turned 180 degrees from the centre position.

 

The sequence is:

 

1. Disconnect drag link.

2. Find steering centre position.

3. Turn steering wheel 180 degrees to either right or left.

4. Slacken adjuster lock nut.

5. Turn adjuster screw with one hand whilst feeling for play i n the drop arm with the other.

6. When all play is removed, tighten lock nut and reassemble drag link.

 

  Forgive me if I have missed it if it is already on this forum, but I &n bsp;thought it worth mentioning. It worked for me!

 

Roger Bateman

TC2456

 

Roger Bateman 

[Roger Bateman]

John,

I am getting a few, but the site isn't nearly so busy now that Norman has finished his restoration and decamped back to Blighty!

Roger