I hope this does not kick off another debate on the merits or otherwise of the VW box over the BC, but after reading a very interesting article by a Mike James in John James' 'Totally T type' on aftermarket drop arms , I'm curious. I'm in the process of replacing the busted VW steering box in 0632 and the drop or Pitman arm supplied with the replacement is totally different to the one on the old unit. Both units are made by TWR, but the old drop arm is a VW original. Not only is it shorter, but it does not have the same amount of 'offset'. Also, the tapered hole to accept the rod end is the other way up ... on the 'old' one, the rod end is mounted on the top and secured from below. Pro! bably the biggest argument against changing from a BC box is the increased number of turns lock to lock, so having a shorter arm can only exasperate that. While the use of a longer arm won't reduce the number of turns, it would make for less movement of the wheel to achieve the same amount of lock at the hub .... so in effect, making for a slightly 'quicker' box. Or am I talking out of the top of my head? Tweed.
Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)
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Re: Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)
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Re: Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)
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li:last-child { border-right:none !important;} #ygrps-yiv-902562594On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 12:54 PM, 'Norman Verona' norman@frenchblat.com [mg-tabc]mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: I agree wholeheartedly with Steve. I drive my car, shall we say, prudently. It s not a race car and I have the Caterham if I want to drive (very) fast. I think I got the TC up to 60 mph once. [b][i]Norman Verona[/i][/b]11 Cherry Close, Royston, South Yorkshire S71 4LZPhone: 0044 (0)1226 728811Mob: 0044 (0)741 9905 741[b][i]Web: www.frenchblat.com[/i][/b] [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] 14 August 2017 17:58 [b]To:[/b] usaj24@earthlink.net; Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk> [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once) Safety?! Give me a break here. It is a 70 year old car made of wood with a steel tube pointed at the drivers chest and a fuel tank as a rear bumper. Lighting barely visible after dark, a chassis known to develop stress cracks, rear axles known to break, front spindles that crack and a crank shaft that sometimes breaks across a counter weight. Made of materials scrounged after a war built with technology from well before.I am sorry I just cannot worry too much about the quality and traceability in manufacturing from raw material to end product. We are lucky we can still get parts and keep these old crocks on the road for awhile longer. By simply driving these vehicles you are assuming a great deal of risk and if this is a big problem, maybe time to choose a different hobby. Steve TC2911, driving a car as old as I am.[b]From:[/b] "'Usaj24@earthlink.net' usaj24@earthlink.net [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]To:[/b] Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk> [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, August 14, 2017 9:27 AM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once) Tweed,No worries, there can never be enough discussion about how or why things break, and preventive measures. Personally I tend to worry more about fitting aftermarket critical parts with unknown QC issues. However this line of thinking should be more relevant today when NOS OEM critical parts are becoming unobtanium, and who knows where today's parts are sourced and what level of QC they went through from A to Z.Those touting VALUE of items like OEM VW steering components should be be promoting advantages they offer in the way of safety in the way of high levels of OEM QC (Quality Control) and traceability in mfg. process from raw material to end product.Too many vintage critical parts are sourced from suppliers in third world countries based on cost, not degree of quality testing provided throughout mfg. supply chain. BillTC 4926 Sent from my iPad On Aug 13, 2017, at 9:24 PM, Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: I hope this does not kick off another debate on the merits or otherwise of the VW box over the BC, but after reading a very interesting article by a Mike James in John James' 'Totally T type' on aftermarket drop arms , I'm curious. I'm in the process of replacing the busted VW steering box in 0632 and the drop or Pitman arm supplied with the replacement is totally different to the one on the old unit. Both units are made by TWR, but the old drop arm is a VW original. Not only is it shorter, but it does not have the same amount of 'offset'. Also, the tapered hole to accept the rod end is the other way up ... on the 'old' one, the rod end is mounted on the top and secured from below. Pro! bably the biggest argument against changing from a BC box is the increased number of turns lock to lock, so having a shorter arm can only exasperate that. While the use of a longer arm won't reduce the number of turns, it would make for less movement of the wheel to achieve the same amount of lock at the hub .... so in effect, making for a slightly 'quicker' box. Or am I talking out of the top of my head? Tweed.
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Re: Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)
On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 12:54 PM, 'Norman Verona' norman@frenchblat.com [mg-tabc]mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: I agree wholeheartedly with Steve. I drive my car, shall we say, prudently. It s not a race car and I have the Caterham if I want to drive (very) fast. I think I got the TC up to 60 mph once. [b][i]Norman Verona[/i][/b]11 Cherry Close, Royston, South Yorkshire S71 4LZPhone: 0044 (0)1226 728811Mob: 0044 (0)741 9905 741[b][i]Web: www.frenchblat.com[/i][/b] [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] 14 August 2017 17:58 [b]To:[/b] usaj24@earthlink.net; Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk> [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once) Safety?! Give me a break here. It is a 70 year old car made of wood with a steel tube pointed at the drivers chest and a fuel tank as a rear bumper. Lighting barely visible after dark, a chassis known to develop stress cracks, rear axles known to break, front spindles that crack and a crank shaft that sometimes breaks across a counter weight. Made of materials scrounged after a war built with technology from well before.I am sorry I just cannot worry too much about the quality and traceability in manufacturing from raw material to end product. We are lucky we can still get parts and keep these old crocks on the road for awhile longer. By simply driving these vehicles you are assuming a great deal of risk and if this is a big problem, maybe time to choose a different hobby. Steve TC2911, driving a car as old as I am.[b]From:[/b] "'Usaj24@earthlink.net' usaj24@earthlink.net [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]To:[/b] Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk> [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, August 14, 2017 9:27 AM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once) Tweed,No worries, there can never be enough discussion about how or why things break, and preventive measures. Personally I tend to worry more about fitting aftermarket critical parts with unknown QC issues. However this line of thinking should be more relevant today when NOS OEM critical parts are becoming unobtanium, and who knows where today's parts are sourced and what level of QC they went through from A to Z.Those touting VALUE of items like OEM VW steering components should be be promoting advantages they offer in the way of safety in the way of high levels of OEM QC (Quality Control) and traceability in mfg. process from raw material to end product.Too many vintage critical parts are sourced from suppliers in third world countries based on cost, not degree of quality testing provided throughout mfg. supply chain. BillTC 4926 Sent from my iPad On Aug 13, 2017, at 9:24 PM, Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: I hope this does not kick off another debate on the merits or otherwise of the VW box over the BC, but after reading a very interesting article by a Mike James in John James' 'Totally T type' on aftermarket drop arms , I'm curious. I'm in the process of replacing the busted VW steering box in 0632 and the drop or Pitman arm supplied with the replacement is totally different to the one on the old unit. Both units are made by TWR, but the old drop arm is a VW original. Not only is it shorter, but it does not have the same amount of 'offset'. Also, the tapered hole to accept the rod end is the other way up ... on the 'old' one, the rod end is mounted on the top and secured from below. Pro! bably the biggest argument against changing from a BC box is the increased number of turns lock to lock, so having a shorter arm can only exasperate that. While the use of a longer arm won't reduce the number of turns, it would make for less movement of the wheel to achieve the same amount of lock at the hub .... so in effect, making for a slightly 'quicker' box. Or am I talking out of the top of my head? Tweed.
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Re: Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)
On 14 August 2017 at 11:07, 'Eugene F. Gillam' anngene@bellsouth.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u] I believe with suppliers like FTFU here in the USA that quality control is part and parcel of their buying process at least I hope it is. Gene GillamSaucier, MS On Aug 14, 2017, at 12:09 PM, Steve S mail@mgnuts.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: All fair points, but I think the issue is with parts that could kill you if they failed. A broken axle is a minor inconvenience, but a broken steering component can kill you and whoever you consequently run into. I don't think anyone is in this hobby thinking that it's ok if it kills them! We take a risk by driving a car with no modern safety equipment in place, but I think it's reasonable to expect that the steering system will remain in one piece. If I drive myself off a cliff then ok, but I'd rather it be my mistake than a failed steering arm! - Steve Simmons, TC8975
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- Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 4:21 am
Re: Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)
I believe with suppliers like FTFU here in the USA that quality control is part and parcel of their buying process at least I hope it is. Gene GillamSaucier, MS On Aug 14, 2017, at 12:09 PM, Steve S mail@mgnuts.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: All fair points, but I think the issue is with parts that could kill you if they failed. A broken axle is a minor inconvenience, but a broken steering component can kill you and whoever you consequently run into. I don't think anyone is in this hobby thinking that it's ok if it kills them! We take a risk by driving a car with no modern safety equipment in place, but I think it's reasonable to expect that the steering system will remain in one piece. If I drive myself off a cliff then ok, but I'd rather it be my mistake than a failed steering arm!- Steve Simmons, TC8975
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- Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:56 pm
Re: Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)
[img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif&t=1522511708&sig=0HjfYIU2VIZcwe3EuoIByg--~D[/img] Virus-free. www.avast.comSteve, Give up on this, If you think [b]"A broken axle is a minor inconvenience[/b][b],"[/b] at 65 mph say, then you are quite clearly suicidal and well beyond saving Clive m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] mail@mgnuts.com [mg-tabc] [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, August 14, 2017 6:09 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)All fair points, but I think the issue is with parts that could kill you if they failed. A broken axle is a minor inconvenience, but a broken steering component can kill you and whoever you consequently run into. I don't think anyone is in this hobby thinking that it's ok if it kills them! We take a risk by driving a car with no modern safety equipment in place, but I think it's reasonable to expect that the steering system will remain in one piece. If I drive myself off a cliff then ok, but I'd rather it be my mistake than a failed steering arm! - Steve Simmons, TC8975 On 8/14/2017 9:57 AM, Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] wrote: Safety?! Give me a break here. It is a 70 year old car made of wood with a steel tube pointed at the drivers chest and a fuel tank as a rear bumper. Lighting barely visible after dark, a chassis known to develop stress cracks, rear axles known to break, front spindles that crack and a crank shaft that sometimes breaks across a counter weight. Made of materials scrounged after a war built with technology from well before. I am sorry I just cannot worry too much about the quality and traceability in manufacturing from raw material to end product. We are lucky we can still get parts and keep these old crocks on the road for awhile longer. By simply driving these vehicles you are assuming a great deal of risk and if this is a big problem, maybe time to choose a different hobby. Steve TC2911, driving a car as old as I am. [b]From:[/b] 'Usaj24@earthlink.net'usaj24@earthlink.net[mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com [b]To:[/b] Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, August 14, 2017 9:27 AM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once) Tweed, No worries, there can never be enough discussion about how or why things break, and preventive measures. Personally I tend to worry more about fitting aftermarket critical parts with unknown QC issues. However this line of thinking should be more relevant today when NOS OEM critical parts are becoming unobtanium, and who knows where today's parts are sourced and what level of QC they went through from A to Z. Those touting VALUE of items like OEM VW steering components should be be promoting advantages they offer in the way of safety in the way of high levels of OEM QC (Quality Control) and traceability in mfg. process from raw material to end product. Too many vintage critical parts are sourced from suppliers in third world countries based on cost, not degree of quality testing provided throughout mfg. supply chain. Bill TC 4926 Sent from my iPad On Aug 13, 2017, at 9:24 PM, Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: I hope this does not kick off another debate on the merits or otherwise of the VW box over the BC, but after reading a very interesting article by a Mike James in John James' 'Totally T type' on aftermarket drop arms , I'm curious. I'm in the process of replacing the busted VW steering box in 0632 and the drop or Pitman arm supplied with the replacement is totally different to the one on the old unit. Both units are made by TWR, but the old drop arm is a VW original. Not only is it shorter, but it does not have the same amount of 'offset'. Also, the tapered hole to accept the rod end is the other way up ... on the 'old' one, the rod end is mounted on the top and secured from below. Pro! bably the biggest argument against changing from a BC box is the increased number of turns lock to lock, so having a shorter arm can only exasperate that. While the use of a longer arm won't reduce the number of turns, it would make for less movement of the wheel to achieve the same amount of lock at the hub .... so in effect, making for a slightly 'quicker' box. Or am I talking out of the top of my head? Tweed.
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- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:22 am
Re: Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)
[img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif&t=1522511709&sig=iR0e2XiruH8sj3M4xy5Gfg--~D[/img] Virus-free. www.avast.com----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] mail@mgnuts.com [mg-tabc] [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, August 14, 2017 6:09 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)All fair points, but I think the issue is with parts that could kill you if they failed. A broken axle is a minor inconvenience, but a broken steering component can kill you and whoever you consequently run into. I don't think anyone is in this hobby thinking that it's ok if it kills them! We take a risk by driving a car with no modern safety equipment in place, but I think it's reasonable to expect that the steering system will remain in one piece. If I drive myself off a cliff then ok, but I'd rather it be my mistake than a failed steering arm! - Steve Simmons, TC8975 On 8/14/2017 9:57 AM, Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] wrote: Safety?! Give me a break here. It is a 70 year old car made of wood with a steel tube pointed at the drivers chest and a fuel tank as a rear bumper. Lighting barely visible after dark, a chassis known to develop stress cracks, rear axles known to break, front spindles that crack and a crank shaft that sometimes breaks across a counter weight. Made of materials scrounged after a war built with technology from well before. I am sorry I just cannot worry too much about the quality and traceability in manufacturing from raw material to end product. We are lucky we can still get parts and keep these old crocks on the road for awhile longer. By simply driving these vehicles you are assuming a great deal of risk and if this is a big problem, maybe time to choose a different hobby. Steve TC2911, driving a car as old as I am. [b]From:[/b] 'Usaj24@earthlink.net'usaj24@earthlink.net[mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com [b]To:[/b] Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, August 14, 2017 9:27 AM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once) Tweed, No worries, there can never be enough discussion about how or why things break, and preventive measures. Personally I tend to worry more about fitting aftermarket critical parts with unknown QC issues. However this line of thinking should be more relevant today when NOS OEM critical parts are becoming unobtanium, and who knows where today's parts are sourced and what level of QC they went through from A to Z. Those touting VALUE of items like OEM VW steering components should be be promoting advantages they offer in the way of safety in the way of high levels of OEM QC (Quality Control) and traceability in mfg. process from raw material to end product. Too many vintage critical parts are sourced from suppliers in third world countries based on cost, not degree of quality testing provided throughout mfg. supply chain. Bill TC 4926 Sent from my iPad On Aug 13, 2017, at 9:24 PM, Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: I hope this does not kick off another debate on the merits or otherwise of the VW box over the BC, but after reading a very interesting article by a Mike James in John James' 'Totally T type' on aftermarket drop arms , I'm curious. I'm in the process of replacing the busted VW steering box in 0632 and the drop or Pitman arm supplied with the replacement is totally different to the one on the old unit. Both units are made by TWR, but the old drop arm is a VW original. Not only is it shorter, but it does not have the same amount of 'offset'. Also, the tapered hole to accept the rod end is the other way up ... on the 'old' one, the rod end is mounted on the top and secured from below. Pro! bably the biggest argument against changing from a BC box is the increased number of turns lock to lock, so having a shorter arm can only exasperate that. While the use of a longer arm won't reduce the number of turns, it would make for less movement of the wheel to achieve the same amount of lock at the hub .... so in effect, making for a slightly 'quicker' box. Or am I talking out of the top of my head? Tweed.
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- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:22 am
Re: Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)
[img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif&t=1522511709&sig=iR0e2XiruH8sj3M4xy5Gfg--~D[/img] Virus-free. www.avast.com----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] mail@mgnuts.com [b]To:[/b] csherriff99@gmail.com ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, August 15, 2017 9:32 AM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once) Have you ever seen an axle break at 65 mph? Obviously I'm talking about how they normally break, in first gear. Hardly suicidal. Or if axle breakage scares you, put a set of tapered axles in and stop worrying so much. Or we can change my example (and that's all it was) to "a broken set of points is a minor inconvenience" if it will return sanity to the discussion! - Steve Simmons, TC8975 On August 15, 2017 1:14:13 AM "Clive P Sherriff" csherriff99@gmail.com> wrote: Steve, Give up on this, If you think [b]"A broken axle is a minor inconvenience[/b][b],"[/b] at 65 mph say, then you are quite clearly suicidal and well beyond saving Clive m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] mail@mgnuts.com [mg-tabc] [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, August 14, 2017 6:09 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)All fair points, but I think the issue is with parts that could kill you if they failed. A broken axle is a minor inconvenience, but a broken steering component can kill you and whoever you consequently run into. I don't think anyone is in this hobby thinking that it's ok if it kills them! We take a risk by driving a car with no modern safety equipment in place, but I think it's reasonable to expect that the steering system will remain in one piece. If I drive myself off a cliff then ok, but I'd rather it be my mistake than a failed steering arm! - Steve Simmons, TC8975 On 8/14/2017 9:57 AM, Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] wrote: Safety?! Give me a break here. It is a 70 year old car made of wood with a steel tube pointed at the drivers chest and a fuel tank as a rear bumper. Lighting barely visible after dark, a chassis known to develop stress cracks, rear axles known to break, front spindles that crack and a crank shaft that sometimes breaks across a counter weight. Made of materials scrounged after a war built with technology from well before. I am sorry I just cannot worry too much about the quality and traceability in manufacturing from raw material to end product. We are lucky we can still get parts and keep these old crocks on the road for awhile longer. By simply driving these vehicles you are assuming a great deal of risk and if this is a big problem, maybe time to choose a different hobby. Steve TC2911, driving a car as old as I am. [b]From:[/b] 'Usaj24@earthlink.net'usaj24@earthlink.net[mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com [b]To:[/b] Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, August 14, 2017 9:27 AM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once) Tweed, No worries, there can never be enough discussion about how or why things break, and preventive measures. Personally I tend to worry more about fitting aftermarket critical parts with unknown QC issues. However this line of thinking should be more relevant today when NOS OEM critical parts are becoming unobtanium, and who knows where today's parts are sourced and what level of QC they went through from A to Z. Those touting VALUE of items like OEM VW steering components should be be promoting advantages they offer in the way of safety in the way of high levels of OEM QC (Quality Control) and traceability in mfg. process from raw material to end product. Too many vintage critical parts are sourced from suppliers in third world countries based on cost, not degree of quality testing provided throughout mfg. supply chain. Bill TC 4926 Sent from my iPad On Aug 13, 2017, at 9:24 PM, Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: I hope this does not kick off another debate on the merits or otherwise of the VW box over the BC, but after reading a very interesting article by a Mike James in John James' 'Totally T type' on aftermarket drop arms , I'm curious. I'm in the process of replacing the busted VW steering box in 0632 and the drop or Pitman arm supplied with the replacement is totally different to the one on the old unit. Both units are made by TWR, but the old drop arm is a VW original. Not only is it shorter, but it does not have the same amount of 'offset'. Also, the tapered hole to accept the rod end is the other way up ... on the 'old' one, the rod end is mounted on the top and secured from below. Pro! bably the biggest argument against changing from a BC box is the increased number of turns lock to lock, so having a shorter arm can only exasperate that. While the use of a longer arm won't reduce the number of turns, it would make for less movement of the wheel to achieve the same amount of lock at the hub .... so in effect, making for a slightly 'quicker' box. Or am I talking out of the top of my head? Tweed.
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- Posts: 16
- Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:57 am
Re: Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)
[img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif&t=1522511709&sig=iR0e2XiruH8sj3M4xy5Gfg--~D[/img] Virus-free. www.avast.com----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] mail@mgnuts.com [mg-tabc] [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, August 14, 2017 6:09 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)
All fair points, but I think the issue is with parts that could kill you if they failed. A broken axle is a minor inconvenience, but a broken steering component can kill you and whoever you consequently run into. I don't think anyone is in this hobby thinking that it's ok if it kills them! We take a risk by driving a car with no modern safety equipment in place, but I think it's reasonable to expect that the steering system will remain in one piece. If I drive myself off a cliff then ok, but I'd rather it be my mistake than a failed steering arm! - Steve Simmons, TC8975 On 8/14/2017 9:57 AM, Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] wrote: Safety?! Give me a break here. It is a 70 year old car made of wood with a steel tube pointed at the drivers chest and a fuel tank as a rear bumper. Lighting barely visible after dark, a chassis known to develop stress cracks, rear axles known to break, front spindles that crack and a crank shaft that sometimes breaks across a counter weight. Made of materials scrounged after a war built with technology from well before. I am sorry I just cannot worry too much about the quality and traceability in manufacturing from raw material to end product. We are lucky we can still get parts and keep these old crocks on the road for awhile longer. By simply driving these vehicles you are assuming a great deal of risk and if this is a big problem, maybe time to choose a different hobby. Steve TC2911, driving a car as old as I am. [b]From:[/b] 'Usaj24@earthlink.net'usaj24@earthlink.net[mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com [b]To:[/b] Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, August 14, 2017 9:27 AM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once) Tweed, No worries, there can never be enough discussion about how or why things break, and preventive measures. Personally I tend to worry more about fitting aftermarket critical parts with unknown QC issues. However this line of thinking should be more relevant today when NOS OEM critical parts are becoming unobtanium, and who knows where today's parts are sourced and what level of QC they went through from A to Z. Those touting VALUE of items like OEM VW steering components should be be promoting advantages they offer in the way of safety in the way of high levels of OEM QC (Quality Control) and traceability in mfg. process from raw material to end product. Too many vintage critical parts are sourced from suppliers in third world countries based on cost, not degree of quality testing provided throughout mfg. supply chain. Bill TC 4926 Sent from my iPad On Aug 13, 2017, at 9:24 PM, Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: I hope this does not kick off another debate on the merits or otherwise of the VW box over the BC, but after reading a very interesting article by a Mike James in John James' 'Totally T type' on aftermarket drop arms , I'm curious. I'm in the process of replacing the busted VW steering box in 0632 and the drop or Pitman arm supplied with the replacement is totally different to the one on the old unit. Both units are made by TWR, but the old drop arm is a VW original. Not only is it shorter, but it does not have the same amount of 'offset'. Also, the tapered hole to accept the rod end is the other way up ... on the 'old' one, the rod end is mounted on the top and secured from below. Pro! bably the biggest argument against changing from a BC box is the increased number of turns lock to lock, so having a shorter arm can only exasperate that. While the use of a longer arm won't reduce the number of turns, it would make for less movement of the wheel to achieve the same amount of lock at the hub .... so in effect, making for a slightly 'quicker' box. Or am I talking out of the top of my head? Tweed.
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- Posts: 107
- Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:56 pm
Re: Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once)
[img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif&t=1522511716&sig=qxjbxq.1i1vFD2ywHGQ3Eg--~D[/img] Virus-free. www.avast.comDear Steve, Let's not get up tight about this Yes I have had a TABC Type axle break at 65 mph. and in another historic car, a rear axle disintergrate at over 130mph. Have you ? It's no trivial matter. By your flippant reply I can only assume you have not. Or perhaps you just did not notice? Anyway, I suspect the confusion is that you don't know what an "axle" is and that what you actually mean is a half shaft. And a tapered half shaft is not going to stop an axle breaking, front or rear ! Either way I still maintain that it is a prime requirement that suppliers should employ more than sufficient quality control and sampling to ensure all their products are safe to use, dimensionally correct, employ the correct and correctly treated materials, and are fit for purpose. Many do not seem to do this and just sell on what they order in regardless. All Best Clive Oxford UK. m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] mail@mgnuts.com [b]To:[/b] csherriff99@gmail.com ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, August 15, 2017 9:32 AM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once) Have you ever seen an axle break at 65 mph? Obviously I'm talking about how they normally break, in first gear. Hardly suicidal. Or if axle breakage scares you, put a set of tapered axles in and stop worrying so much. Or we can change my example (and that's all it was) to "a broken set of points is a minor inconvenience" if it will return sanity to the discussion! - Steve Simmons, TC8975 On August 15, 2017 1:14:13 AM "Clive P Sherriff" csherriff99@gmail.com wrote: Steve, Give up on this, If you think [b]"A broken axle is a minor inconvenience[/b][b],"[/b] at 65 mph say, then you are quite clearly suicidal and well beyond saving Clive m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] mail@mgnuts.com%20[mg-tabc] [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, August 14, 2017 6:09 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once) All fair points, but I think the issue is with parts that could kill you if they failed. A broken axle [shaft] is a minor inconvenience, but a broken steering component can kill you and whoever you consequently run into. I don't think anyone is in this hobby thinking that it's ok if it kills them! We take a risk by driving a car with no modern safety equipment in place, but I think it's reasonable to expect that the steering system will remain in one piece. If I drive myself off a cliff then ok, but I'd rather it be my mistake than a failed steering arm! - Steve Simmons, TC8975 On 8/14/2017 9:57 AM, Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] wrote: Safety?! Give me a break here. It is a 70 year old car made of wood with a steel tube pointed at the drivers chest and a fuel tank as a rear bumper. Lighting barely visible after dark, a chassis known to develop stress cracks, rear axles known to break, front spindles that crack and a crank shaft that sometimes breaks across a counter weight. Made of materials scrounged after a war built with technology from well before. I am sorry I just cannot worry too much about the quality and traceability in manufacturing from raw material to end product. We are lucky we can still get parts and keep these old crocks on the road for awhile longer. By simply driving these vehicles you are assuming a great deal of risk and if this is a big problem, maybe time to choose a different hobby. Steve TC2911, driving a car as old as I am. [b]From:[/b] %27Usaj24@earthlink.net%27usaj24@earthlink.net[mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com [b]To:[/b] Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, August 14, 2017 9:27 AM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Drop arms. ( Sorry if this appears more than once) Tweed, No worries, there can never be enough discussion about how or why things break, and preventive measures. Personally I tend to worry more about fitting aftermarket critical parts with unknown QC issues. However this line of thinking should be more relevant today when NOS OEM critical parts are becoming unobtanium, and who knows where today's parts are sourced and what level of QC they went through from A to Z. Those touting VALUE of items like OEM VW steering components should be be promoting advantages they offer in the way of safety in the way of high levels of OEM QC (Quality Control) and traceability in mfg. process from raw material to end product. Too many vintage critical parts are sourced from suppliers in third world countries based on cost, not degree of quality testing provided throughout mfg. supply chain. Bill TC 4926 Sent from my iPad On Aug 13, 2017, at 9:24 PM, Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: I hope this does not kick off another debate on the merits or otherwise of the VW box over the BC, but after reading a very interesting article by a Mike James in John James' 'Totally T type' on aftermarket drop arms , I'm curious. I'm in the process of replacing the busted VW steering box in 0632 and the drop or Pitman arm supplied with the replacement is totally different to the one on the old unit. Both units are made by TWR, but the old drop arm is a VW original. Not only is it shorter, but it does not have the same amount of 'offset'. Also, the tapered hole to accept the rod end is the other way up ... on the 'old' one, the rod end is mounted on the top and secured from below. Pro! bably the biggest argument against changing from a BC box is the increased number of turns lock to lock, so having a shorter arm can only exasperate that. While the use of a longer arm won't reduce the number of turns, it would make for less movement of the wheel to achieve the same amount of lock at the hub .... so in effect, making for a slightly 'quicker' box. Or am I talking out of the top of my head? Tweed.
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