Enigine Age Cracks

[Bruce Collins]

To all, Upon my return drive to the Seabring GOF I notice a trace of water flowing down the block behind the Manifold. Thinking that it was the large Freeze Plug I removed the Carb's and Manifold. Upon inspection I noticed some very faint hairline cracks running horizontally along the water Galley just below. Speaking with a welder who specializes in making this sort of repair he mentioned that this is a common occurrence in old Tractor engines and can be easily repaired. This work can also be done without taking the engine completely down. It is recommended that you remove the components from the engine and take the engine out. Upon doing so remove the paint and clean off the block. Have it Magnafluxed to make the cracks stand out.. Then the welder can do his repair, grind down the welds and polish it. Then I can repaint it and it will be as good as new. The time to do the magnaflux and welding can be done in a day or two. Next week I will have this work done and order the parts that I wish to replace (such as rubber mounts for the Headlights, Radiator mounts, etc. Things that upon dismantling the car should be addressed.) I will add that because I have good Oil Pressure (60+ PSIG) and good compression, no water/gas in Oil, etc... I concluded a rebuild was not necessary. I will also note that I drive quite regularly and the engine (Actually a left over TB XPAG engine) is original to the car. More reason to repair than replace. I mention this to the list so that you may want to just take a look at your engine and see if any of these age cracks are beginning to appear on your engine. It caught early it is an easy repair and will continue the life of your pride and joy. Happy motoring! Bruce TC #2721 XPAG #3355 Down but not out!

[Donald Wilkinson]

Hey all! Digitaldon sez: not a big deal; nickel arc rod, even in a cheap buzz box, will fix it right quick. May wanta remove engine & place on it's side-(drain oil 1st). Helpful to warm the block in the local area; one of those propane blow torches roofers use is good; otherwise ordinary propane or acetylene cutting torch. Don TC 7993

>From: "Bruce Collins" bdcollin@bellsouth.net> >To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> >Subject: [mg-tabc] Enigine Age Cracks >Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:56:15 -0400 > > > To all, > >Upon my return drive to the Seabring GOF I notice a trace of water flowing >down the block behind the Manifold. Thinking that it was the large Freeze >Plug I removed the Carb's and Manifold. Upon inspection I noticed some very >faint hairline cracks running horizontally along the water Galley just >below. > >Speaking with a welder who specializes in making this sort of repair he >mentioned that this is a common occurrence in old Tractor engines and can >be >easily repaired. This work can also be done without taking the engine >completely down. It is recommended that you remove the components from the >engine and take the engine out. Upon doing so remove the paint and clean >off >the block. Have it Magnafluxed to make the cracks stand out.. Then the >welder can do his repair, grind down the welds and polish it. Then I can >repaint it and it will be as good as new. The time to do the magnaflux and >welding can be done in a day or two. Next week I will have this work done >and order the parts that I wish to replace (such as rubber mounts for the >Headlights, Radiator mounts, etc. Things that upon dismantling the car >should be addressed.) > >I will add that because I have good Oil Pressure (60+ PSIG) and good >compression, no water/gas in Oil, etc... I concluded a rebuild was not >necessary. I will also note that I drive quite regularly and the engine >(Actually a left over TB XPAG engine) is original to the car. More reason >to >repair than replace. > >I mention this to the list so that you may want to just take a look at your >engine and see if any of these age cracks are beginning to appear on your >engine. It caught early it is an easy repair and will continue the life of >your pride and joy. > >Happy motoring! > >Bruce >TC #2721 XPAG #3355 >Down but not out! > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

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[Clive Sherriff]

I'd suspect Didgitaldon has never had this problem by the gay abandon with which he welds someone elses block! The Xpag Blocks dont like being welded too much, and you frequently just extend the crack as you weld - or it stresses and cracks later. The only sane solution is to Metalstitch the crack which will be 100 percent successful Regards Clive ===========================================

----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Wilkinson" digitaldon@hotmail.com> To: bdcollin@bellsouth.net>; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 6:17 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Enigine Age Cracks > Hey all! > > Digitaldon sez: not a big deal; nickel arc rod, even in a cheap buzz box, > will fix it right quick. May wanta remove engine & place on it's side-(drain > oil 1st). Helpful to warm the block in the local area; one of those propane > blow torches roofers use is good; otherwise ordinary propane or acetylene > cutting torch. > > Don > TC 7993 > > > >From: "Bruce Collins" bdcollin@bellsouth.net> > >To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: [mg-tabc] Enigine Age Cracks > >Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:56:15 -0400 > > > > > > To all, > > > >Upon my return drive to the Seabring GOF I notice a trace of water flowing > >down the block behind the Manifold. Thinking that it was the large Freeze > >Plug I removed the Carb's and Manifold. Upon inspection I noticed some very > >faint hairline cracks running horizontally along the water Galley just > >below. > > > >Speaking with a welder who specializes in making this sort of repair he > >mentioned that this is a common occurrence in old Tractor engines and can > >be > >easily repaired. This work can also be done without taking the engine > >completely down. It is recommended that you remove the components from the > >engine and take the engine out. Upon doing so remove the paint and clean > >off > >the block. Have it Magnafluxed to make the cracks stand out.. Then the > >welder can do his repair, grind down the welds and polish it. Then I can > >repaint it and it will be as good as new. The time to do the magnaflux and > >welding can be done in a day or two. Next week I will have this work done > >and order the parts that I wish to replace (such as rubber mounts for the > >Headlights, Radiator mounts, etc. Things that upon dismantling the car > >should be addressed.) > > > >I will add that because I have good Oil Pressure (60+ PSIG) and good > >compression, no water/gas in Oil, etc... I concluded a rebuild was not > >necessary. I will also note that I drive quite regularly and the engine > >(Actually a left over TB XPAG engine) is original to the car. More reason > >to > >repair than replace. > > > >I mention this to the list so that you may want to just take a look at your > >engine and see if any of these age cracks are beginning to appear on your > >engine. It caught early it is an easy repair and will continue the life of > >your pride and joy. > > > >Happy motoring! > > > >Bruce > >TC #2721 XPAG #3355 > >Down but not out! > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

[R. Zwart]

"ENGINE" BLOCK AGE CRACKS I was lucky enough to find a great engine block welder in Idaho. He specializes in antique tractors. I sent him my 1929 MG MType block, and bell housing. The block had been frozen and the side panel areas were also corroded away. They kept the engine for about two months. First, it was stabilized by heating for, I think a week in a furnace. Then, they took casting samples and matched the alloy. Then the weld, and again a long cool down. They built up the metal to EXACTLY the original. Looked like a new casting. Neatly dressed and primed. The bell housing had a broken flange which was so well repaired that you couldn't tell, inside or out. The 'coupe de tat' was: the bell housing, sometime in the past had been altered by drilling a series of holes in the form of a rectangle about 3" by 4" and the center punched out(I suppose for access to the clutch)(sort of raggedy). I had machined a flat surface and put a nice s/s plate(well, I thought it was nice) over it attached with screws. They removed the plate and pieced in a cast iron piece, blended and contoured to match the rest of the casting. I didn't even notice until I was looking at a photo, taken before. There was no plate now....WOW! BOB P.S. You might guess, I was pleased with their work, even if their specialty was doing antique farm equipment ...... Clive Sherriff wrote:

> I'd suspect Didgitaldon has never had this problem by the gay > abandon with which he welds someone elses block! > > The Xpag Blocks dont like being welded too much, and you > frequently just extend the crack as you weld - or it stresses > and cracks later. > > The only sane solution is to Metalstitch the crack which > will be 100 percent successful > > Regards > > Clive > > =========================================== > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Donald Wilkinson" digitaldon@hotmail.com> > To: bdcollin@bellsouth.net>; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 6:17 PM > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Enigine Age Cracks > > > Hey all! > > > > Digitaldon sez: not a big deal; nickel arc rod, even in a cheap buzz box, > > will fix it right quick. May wanta remove engine & place on it's > side-(drain > > oil 1st). Helpful to warm the block in the local area; one of those > propane > > blow torches roofers use is good; otherwise ordinary propane or acetylene > > cutting torch. > > > > Don > > TC 7993 > > > > > > >From: "Bruce Collins" bdcollin@bellsouth.net> > > >To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> > > >Subject: [mg-tabc] Enigine Age Cracks > > >Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:56:15 -0400 > > > > > > > > > To all, > > > > > >Upon my return drive to the Seabring GOF I notice a trace of water > flowing > > >down the block behind the Manifold. Thinking that it was the large Freeze > > >Plug I removed the Carb's and Manifold. Upon inspection I noticed some > very > > >faint hairline cracks running horizontally along the water Galley just > > >below. > > > > > >Speaking with a welder who specializes in making this sort of repair he > > >mentioned that this is a common occurrence in old Tractor engines and can > > >be > > >easily repaired. This work can also be done without taking the engine > > >completely down. It is recommended that you remove the components from > the > > >engine and take the engine out. Upon doing so remove the paint and clean > > >off > > >the block. Have it Magnafluxed to make the cracks stand out.. Then the > > >welder can do his repair, grind down the welds and polish it. Then I can > > >repaint it and it will be as good as new. The time to do the magnaflux > and > > >welding can be done in a day or two. Next week I will have this work done > > >and order the parts that I wish to replace (such as rubber mounts for the > > >Headlights, Radiator mounts, etc. Things that upon dismantling the car > > >should be addressed.) > > > > > >I will add that because I have good Oil Pressure (60+ PSIG) and good > > >compression, no water/gas in Oil, etc... I concluded a rebuild was not > > >necessary. I will also note that I drive quite regularly and the engine > > >(Actually a left over TB XPAG engine) is original to the car. More reason > > >to > > >repair than replace. > > > > > >I mention this to the list so that you may want to just take a look at > your > > >engine and see if any of these age cracks are beginning to appear on your > > >engine. It caught early it is an easy repair and will continue the life > of > > >your pride and joy. > > > > > >Happy motoring! > > > > > >Bruce > > >TC #2721 XPAG #3355 > > >Down but not out! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Frank O_ The Mountain]

In a message dated 4/26/02 11:40:32 Pacific Daylight Time, clive.sherriff@ntlworld.com writes: > Clive is exactly right here......welding cast iron blocks is an art and it requires that the block be brought up to high temperature in an oven. Stitching is the only way to go but the crack described might be treated with Bars Leak or some such as a first step. I'd still be suspecious of that rear freeze plug......yeah I know its not really a freeze plug but I can't think of the proper name at the moment! Cheers Terry

[Carlyle Merritt]

I had an engine block repaired on a pre war engine that blew a rod through the side. The block was heated in a furance first and welded while hot - the finished product was not noticable - good job. This repair was done 20 years ago here in Iowa - not sure the same people are in business today. C H Merritt

[Donald Wilkinson]

Well, true, maybe one needs to have done it a few times......... One dye checks, grooves cracks, bores holes @ the ends, preheats, various details like that........... Shouldn't be necessary to disassemble this engine, however, as it's mother said he wanted to avoid. Dunno how one could "magnaflux" a complete short block, however. Just fix the crack we have today & wait for the next one, which might not happen. Don TC7995

>From: "Clive Sherriff" clive.sherriff@ntlworld.com> >To: bdcollin@bellsouth.net>, mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>, "Donald Wilkinson" >digitaldon@hotmail.com> >Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Enigine Age Cracks >Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 19:16:32 +0100 > >I'd suspect Didgitaldon has never had this problem by the gay >abandon with which he welds someone elses block! > >The Xpag Blocks dont like being welded too much, and you >frequently just extend the crack as you weld - or it stresses >and cracks later. > >The only sane solution is to Metalstitch the crack which >will be 100 percent successful > >Regards > >Clive > >=========================================== >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Donald Wilkinson" digitaldon@hotmail.com> >To: bdcollin@bellsouth.net>; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 6:17 PM >Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Enigine Age Cracks > > > > Hey all! > > > > Digitaldon sez: not a big deal; nickel arc rod, even in a cheap buzz >box, > > will fix it right quick. May wanta remove engine & place on it's >side-(drain > > oil 1st). Helpful to warm the block in the local area; one of those >propane > > blow torches roofers use is good; otherwise ordinary propane or >acetylene > > cutting torch. > > > > Don > > TC 7993 > > > > > > >From: "Bruce Collins" bdcollin@bellsouth.net> > > >To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> > > >Subject: [mg-tabc] Enigine Age Cracks > > >Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:56:15 -0400 > > > > > > > > > To all, > > > > > >Upon my return drive to the Seabring GOF I notice a trace of water >flowing > > >down the block behind the Manifold. Thinking that it was the large >Freeze > > >Plug I removed the Carb's and Manifold. Upon inspection I noticed some >very > > >faint hairline cracks running horizontally along the water Galley just > > >below. > > > > > >Speaking with a welder who specializes in making this sort of repair he > > >mentioned that this is a common occurrence in old Tractor engines and >can > > >be > > >easily repaired. This work can also be done without taking the engine > > >completely down. It is recommended that you remove the components from >the > > >engine and take the engine out. Upon doing so remove the paint and >clean > > >off > > >the block. Have it Magnafluxed to make the cracks stand out.. Then the > > >welder can do his repair, grind down the welds and polish it. Then I >can > > >repaint it and it will be as good as new. The time to do the magnaflux >and > > >welding can be done in a day or two. Next week I will have this work >done > > >and order the parts that I wish to replace (such as rubber mounts for >the > > >Headlights, Radiator mounts, etc. Things that upon dismantling the car > > >should be addressed.) > > > > > >I will add that because I have good Oil Pressure (60+ PSIG) and good > > >compression, no water/gas in Oil, etc... I concluded a rebuild was not > > >necessary. I will also note that I drive quite regularly and the engine > > >(Actually a left over TB XPAG engine) is original to the car. More >reason > > >to > > >repair than replace. > > > > > >I mention this to the list so that you may want to just take a look at >your > > >engine and see if any of these age cracks are beginning to appear on >your > > >engine. It caught early it is an easy repair and will continue the life >of > > >your pride and joy. > > > > > >Happy motoring! > > > > > >Bruce > > >TC #2721 XPAG #3355 > > >Down but not out! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > >

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[Donald Wilkinson]

digitaldon also recalls (from many years ago) a cold process called "excelsweld". It was very secret, a guy would come to your boat, car, whatever, & after you had disassembled and exposed the crack, he would (literally) pitch a tent over the job so you couldn't watch. I always suspected the process involved litharge and glycerine, but never tried it; (just stiched 'em up w/ nickel rod). Don TC7993

>From: "Clive Sherriff" clive.sherriff@ntlworld.com> >To: bdcollin@bellsouth.net>, mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>, "Donald Wilkinson" >digitaldon@hotmail.com> >Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Enigine Age Cracks >Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 19:16:32 +0100 > >I'd suspect Didgitaldon has never had this problem by the gay >abandon with which he welds someone elses block! > >The Xpag Blocks dont like being welded too much, and you >frequently just extend the crack as you weld - or it stresses >and cracks later. > >The only sane solution is to Metalstitch the crack which >will be 100 percent successful > >Regards > >Clive > >=========================================== >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Donald Wilkinson" digitaldon@hotmail.com> >To: bdcollin@bellsouth.net>; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 6:17 PM >Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Enigine Age Cracks > > > > Hey all! > > > > Digitaldon sez: not a big deal; nickel arc rod, even in a cheap buzz >box, > > will fix it right quick. May wanta remove engine & place on it's >side-(drain > > oil 1st). Helpful to warm the block in the local area; one of those >propane > > blow torches roofers use is good; otherwise ordinary propane or >acetylene > > cutting torch. > > > > Don > > TC 7993 > > > > > > >From: "Bruce Collins" bdcollin@bellsouth.net> > > >To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> > > >Subject: [mg-tabc] Enigine Age Cracks > > >Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:56:15 -0400 > > > > > > > > > To all, > > > > > >Upon my return drive to the Seabring GOF I notice a trace of water >flowing > > >down the block behind the Manifold. Thinking that it was the large >Freeze > > >Plug I removed the Carb's and Manifold. Upon inspection I noticed some >very > > >faint hairline cracks running horizontally along the water Galley just > > >below. > > > > > >Speaking with a welder who specializes in making this sort of repair he > > >mentioned that this is a common occurrence in old Tractor engines and >can > > >be > > >easily repaired. This work can also be done without taking the engine > > >completely down. It is recommended that you remove the components from >the > > >engine and take the engine out. Upon doing so remove the paint and >clean > > >off > > >the block. Have it Magnafluxed to make the cracks stand out.. Then the > > >welder can do his repair, grind down the welds and polish it. Then I >can > > >repaint it and it will be as good as new. The time to do the magnaflux >and > > >welding can be done in a day or two. Next week I will have this work >done > > >and order the parts that I wish to replace (such as rubber mounts for >the > > >Headlights, Radiator mounts, etc. Things that upon dismantling the car > > >should be addressed.) > > > > > >I will add that because I have good Oil Pressure (60+ PSIG) and good > > >compression, no water/gas in Oil, etc... I concluded a rebuild was not > > >necessary. I will also note that I drive quite regularly and the engine > > >(Actually a left over TB XPAG engine) is original to the car. More >reason > > >to > > >repair than replace. > > > > > >I mention this to the list so that you may want to just take a look at >your > > >engine and see if any of these age cracks are beginning to appear on >your > > >engine. It caught early it is an easy repair and will continue the life >of > > >your pride and joy. > > > > > >Happy motoring! > > > > > >Bruce > > >TC #2721 XPAG #3355 > > >Down but not out! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > >

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[Donald Wilkinson]

Core plug. (where the sand comes out). Don TC 7993

>From: TATERRY@aol.com >To: clive.sherriff@ntlworld.com, bdcollin@bellsouth.net, >mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com, digitaldon@hotmail.com >Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Enigine Age Cracks >Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:36:10 EDT > >In a message dated 4/26/02 11:40:32 Pacific Daylight Time, >clive.sherriff@ntlworld.com writes: > > The Xpag Blocks dont like being welded too much, and you > frequently just extend the crack as you weld - or it stresses > and cracks later. > > The only sane solution is to Metalstitch the crack which > will be 100 percent successful >> > >Clive is exactly right here......welding cast iron blocks is an art and it >requires that the block be brought up to high temperature in an oven. >Stitching is the only way to go but the crack described might be treated >with >Bars Leak or some such as a first step. I'd still be suspecious of that >rear >freeze plug......yeah I know its not really a freeze plug but I can't think >of the proper name at the moment! >Cheers >Terry

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[Diecuts@aol.com]

Metal Stitching has a very informative web site which explains all the pros and cons of welding. They were kind enough to send a starter kit as we occasionally have cracks in some of our presses. Very easy to use. Can be done in the car if you can access with a drill. Less than $100. The usual disclaimers. Cheers, Lee Jacobsen, Dearborn, MI TA2969 Tickford