B/C box heritage

[Peter Pleitner]

Hi Bone Heads, Why not write a script for Montey Python on the subject? All this entertaining yelling, wormy logic, and emotion is going to waste on this exclusive LIST. Lets face it, most post depression British sports car design approvals were made by accountants, DB, Lyon, and Chapman excepted. Seriously now, how about some research on this steering subject. Last century I speculated that the B/C box (steering by faith and constant prayer) was forced upon MG by Morris Motors when OHC engines were outlawed, both to engineer cost out of the product. I'd like to hear from MMM owners/historians as to the relative design merits of the Marles Weller Steering Gear vis a vis the B/C box. I've never had the privilege of inspecting the M/W box, but the description "Into this groove is inserted a follower, on each side of which and deeply embedded in it are two steel hemispheres which make contact with the sides of the cam track" sounds to me superior to the B/C box's tapered peg. As to Badger's comment about his Ace with B/C box, all I can say is two local friends have 289 Cobras (one an FIA), both restored as original. Neither have kind words to say about their steering. And my first car was a TR-3 also with B/C steering. MGA/Bs were well known at that time to have vastly superior steering. Unfortunately I could only convince my father to let me buy a used sports car because the Triumph had a Massey Ferguson engine! Now I'm restoring two Giuliettas which were built up using wonderful, beautiful and expensive parts. BTW Our MGT Register chapter imported several Datsun boxes about ten years ago. Almost half our TCs have them now. So let that knowledge and research shed some perspective on our defense of the B/C box. Cheers, Peter PS: I couldn't believe it, but I actually found and purchased an original and very good condition Nuffield MG Midget Series TC sales brochure (export edition) at the 50th Detroit Autorama (hot rod and custom car show) this weekend!

[Erik Koik]

Giulietta! Now there's a steering box. -----Original Message----- From: Peter Pleitner [mailto:pleitner@dundee.net] Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 5:12 PM To: T-ABCs List Subject: [mg-tabc] B/C box heritage Hi Bone Heads, Why not write a script for Montey Python on the subject? All this entertaining yelling, wormy logic, and emotion is going to waste on this exclusive LIST. Lets face it, most post depression British sports car design approvals were made by accountants, DB, Lyon, and Chapman excepted. Seriously now, how about some research on this steering subject. Last century I speculated that the B/C box (steering by faith and constant prayer) was forced upon MG by Morris Motors when OHC engines were outlawed, both to engineer cost out of the product. I'd like to hear from MMM owners/historians as to the relative design merits of the Marles Weller Steering Gear vis a vis the B/C box. I've never had the privilege of inspecting the M/W box, but the description "Into this groove is inserted a follower, on each side of which and deeply embedded in it are two steel hemispheres which make contact with the sides of the cam track" sounds to me superior to the B/C box's tapered peg. As to Badger's comment about his Ace with B/C box, all I can say is two local friends have 289 Cobras (one an FIA), both restored as original. Neither have kind words to say about their steering. And my first car was a TR-3 also with B/C steering. MGA/Bs were well known at that time to have vastly superior steering. Unfortunately I could only convince my father to let me buy a used sports car because the Triumph had a Massey Ferguson engine! Now I'm restoring two Giuliettas which were built up using wonderful, beautiful and expensive parts. BTW Our MGT Register chapter imported several Datsun boxes about ten years ago. Almost half our TCs have them now. So let that knowledge and research shed some perspective on our defense of the B/C box. Cheers, Peter PS: I couldn't believe it, but I actually found and purchased an original and very good condition Nuffield MG Midget Series TC sales brochure (export edition) at the 50th Detroit Autorama (hot rod and custom car show) this weekend! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Ray]

"Allllways look on the brrrriiiiiiight side of life!!" "Right now; come at me with the banana- be as savage as you like...." "Oh, abuse is down the hall-" in the BC rebuilding area! I know, I have one! But hey, it's FUN! Best Regards, Ray "Remember- It's the collision with the planet that counts!"

----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Pleitner" pleitner@dundee.net> To: "T-ABCs List" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 4:11 PM Subject: [mg-tabc] B/C box heritage > Hi Bone Heads, > > Why not write a script for Montey Python on the subject? All this > entertaining yelling, wormy logic, and emotion is going to waste on this

[murray arundell]

> "Remember- It's the collision with the planet that counts!"

With a Bishop Box the collision could well be with the side of the garage........!! Murray (tongue in check in Oz)

> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Pleitner" pleitner@dundee.net> > To: "T-ABCs List" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 4:11 PM > Subject: [mg-tabc] B/C box heritage > > > > Hi Bone Heads, > > > > Why not write a script for Montey Python on the subject? All this > > entertaining yelling, wormy logic, and emotion is going to waste on this > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

[Diecuts@aol.com]

Can the Datsun box be artfully done over to resemble a BC box? Perhaps if it looked more British on the outside it would be more accepted. It's really what is on the inside that counts, but, like humanity, we often judge only on what we see, and not what lies underneath. PS, my TR-3B has 9" slop in the wheel and, while 25 years ago it was exciting to drive, now that I'm older and hopefully wiser, it is parked waiting for a fix. Cheers, Lee Jacobsen, Dearborn , MI TA2969 Tickford.

[Mark Sellick]

Dear All, Without having ever driven an OHC MG, although I've been restoring an M-Type for 10 years (!), the general consensus among MMM-ers is that the only steering box ever fitted to an MG that actually WORKED was the Adamant box in the M,D,C Midgets and F Magna. The Marles Weller box is considered so bad that the Bishop Cam box was quite an improvement. Having said that, the1933 K3s had the Marles box, but the'43 cars had a Bishop Cam unit. Of course, there are some boxes that are very good and some that are truly awful, even from new - its just down to luck. BTW the Adamant box consists of a worm and wheel, so that whatever the position of the steering, the worm maintains perfect contact. Backlash is fully adjustable. It's virtually bomb-proof, but when it does start to wear, you just rotate the wheel 90 degrees. Superb! Regards, Mark TC1459, TA1392, 2M1168

[tonygoodall]

> From: "Erik Koik" erikkoik@foryou.net> > Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 17:06:50 -0500 > To: "Peter Pleitner" pleitner@dundee.net>, "T-ABCs List" > mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] B/C box heritage > > Giulietta! Now there's a steering box. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Pleitner [mailto:pleitner@dundee.net] > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 5:12 PM > To: T-ABCs List > Subject: [mg-tabc] B/C box heritage > > > Hi Bone Heads, > > Why not write a script for Montey Python on the subject? All this > entertaining yelling, wormy logic, and emotion is going to waste on this > exclusive LIST. > > Lets face it, most post depression British sports car design approvals were > made by accountants, DB, Lyon, and Chapman excepted. Seriously now, how > about some research on this steering subject. Last century I speculated > that the B/C box (steering by faith and constant prayer) was forced upon MG > by Morris Motors when OHC engines were outlawed, both to engineer cost out > of the product. I'd like to hear from MMM owners/historians as to the > relative design merits of the Marles Weller Steering Gear vis a vis the B/C > box. I've never had the privilege of inspecting the M/W box, but the > description "Into this groove is inserted a follower, on each side of which > and deeply embedded in it are two steel hemispheres which make contact with > the sides of the cam track" sounds to me superior to the B/C box's tapered > peg. > > As to Badger's comment about his Ace with B/C box, all I can say is two > local friends have 289 Cobras (one an FIA), both restored as original. > Neither have kind words to say about their steering. And my first car was a > TR-3 also with B/C steering. MGA/Bs were well known at that time to have > vastly superior steering. Unfortunately I could only convince my father to > let me buy a used sports car because the Triumph had a Massey Ferguson > engine! Now I'm restoring two Giuliettas which were built up using > wonderful, beautiful and expensive parts. > > BTW Our MGT Register chapter imported several Datsun boxes about ten years > ago. Almost half our TCs have them now. > > So let that knowledge and research shed some perspective on our defense of > the B/C box. > > Cheers, Peter > > PS: I couldn't believe it, but I actually found and purchased an original > and very good condition Nuffield MG Midget Series TC sales brochure (export > edition) at the 50th Detroit Autorama (hot rod and custom car show) this > weekend! > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

[wargs]

Agree 100%, Erik! My wife's 105 Junior steering set-up puts a lot more expensive cars to shame. Let's hear it for the re-circulating ball! David Lodge Erik Koik wrote:

>Giulietta! Now there's a steering box. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Peter Pleitner [mailto:pleitner@dundee.net] >Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 5:12 PM >To: T-ABCs List >Subject: [mg-tabc] B/C box heritage > > >Hi Bone Heads, > >Why not write a script for Montey Python on the subject? All this >entertaining yelling, wormy logic, and emotion is going to waste on this >exclusive LIST. > >Lets face it, most post depression British sports car design approvals were >made by accountants, DB, Lyon, and Chapman excepted. Seriously now, how >about some research on this steering subject. Last century I speculated >that the B/C box (steering by faith and constant prayer) was forced upon MG >by Morris Motors when OHC engines were outlawed, both to engineer cost out >of the product. I'd like to hear from MMM owners/historians as to the >relative design merits of the Marles Weller Steering Gear vis a vis the B/C >box. I've never had the privilege of inspecting the M/W box, but the >description "Into this groove is inserted a follower, on each side of which >and deeply embedded in it are two steel hemispheres which make contact with >the sides of the cam track" sounds to me superior to the B/C box's tapered >peg. > >As to Badger's comment about his Ace with B/C box, all I can say is two >local friends have 289 Cobras (one an FIA), both restored as original. >Neither have kind words to say about their steering. And my first car was a >TR-3 also with B/C steering. MGA/Bs were well known at that time to have >vastly superior steering. Unfortunately I could only convince my father to >let me buy a used sports car because the Triumph had a Massey Ferguson >engine! Now I'm restoring two Giuliettas which were built up using >wonderful, beautiful and expensive parts. > >BTW Our MGT Register chapter imported several Datsun boxes about ten years >ago. Almost half our TCs have them now. > >So let that knowledge and research shed some perspective on our defense of >the B/C box. > >Cheers, Peter > >PS: I couldn't believe it, but I actually found and purchased an original >and very good condition Nuffield MG Midget Series TC sales brochure (export >edition) at the 50th Detroit Autorama (hot rod and custom car show) this >weekend! > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

[wargs]

"Jolly good! And they're real cabbages are they?" David Lodge Ray wrote:

"Allllways look on the brrrriiiiiiight side of life!!" "Right now; come at me with the banana- be as savage as you like...." "Oh, abuse is down the hall-" in the BC rebuilding area! I know, I have one! But hey, it's FUN! Best Regards, Ray "Remember- It's the collision with the planet that counts!" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Pleitner" pleitner@dundee.net To: "T-ABCs List" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 4:11 PM Subject: [mg-tabc] B/C box heritage Hi Bone Heads, Why not write a script for Montey Python on the subject? All this entertaining yelling, wormy logic, and emotion is going to waste on this

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/