Re: Over Restoration semantics

C Sherriff · Post by **C Sherriff** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 9:45 am

Message text written by INTERNET:DougPulver@aol.com

>Nicely stated, Bill. I took some exception to the "travesty"

remark as well. I don't own a "show car" nor do I ever intend to, but I still appreciate the time, effort, money, pride and attention to detail that goes into such a vehicle. Doug Clive

C Sherriff · Post by **C Sherriff** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 9:45 am

Message text written by INTERNET:DougPulver@aol.com

>Nicely stated, Bill. I took some exception to the "travesty"

remark as well. I don't own a "show car" nor do I ever intend to, but I still appreciate the time, effort, money, pride and attention to detail that goes into such a vehicle. Doug Clive

murray arundell · Post by **murray arundell** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 11:26 am

So does this mean that someone with a love of cars, little or no skill or time but a few bucks is less of an enthusiast then those with time and skill available to do it themselves? Surely not........ Murray Brisbane Oz

> My subsequent point was that most of these guys don't put > anything into it at all - they often just throw money at a so > called "restorer" with a big chroming facility and no idea of > style and historic accuracy who then tows their car to PB > or wherever for the owner to pose beside!

Ray · Post by **Ray** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 12:22 pm

Ah.........those guys are called "car buffs"..... Best, Ray

----- Original Message ----- From: "Murray Arundell" arundell@ecn.net.au> To: DougPulver@aol.com>; "C Sherriff" 100070.740@compuserve.com> Cc: bharkins@tfb.com>; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Over Restoration semantics > So does this mean that someone with a love of cars, little or no skill or > time but a few bucks is less of an enthusiast then > those with time and skill available to do it themselves? Surely not........ > > Murray > Brisbane Oz > > > My subsequent point was that most of these guys don't put > > anything into it at all - they often just throw money at a so > > called "restorer" with a big chroming facility and no idea of > > style and historic accuracy who then tows their car to PB > > or wherever for the owner to pose beside! > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Joe Gates · Post by **Joe Gates** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 12:45 pm

Much of this discussion reminds me so much of debating the merits of plastic surgery by comparing the resulting profiles and features of the likes of Michael Jackson with Cher, et al (roll on Baywatch gals!). Having a TC that pre-dates me by 2 years, I look forward to us each developing those wrinkles round the eyes that add to the patina (correct use of the word?!) of age. That said, when once asked about those sorts of wrinkles, Liz Taylor replied "Those are not wrinkles, they are laugh lines", to which her soon-to-be ex-suitor replied "Life is surely not that funny!" (perhapsit wasn't LizT, but what the hell!). Same can be said for the semantics of this debate? Joe Gates TC 8675

C Sherriff · Post by **C Sherriff** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 1:19 pm

Hi Murray I guess my point could be that some of these owners are not there for the cars - more for the cameras !!! Many others of course have pure vintage oil coursing through their veins!!! Clive ================================================ Message text written by "Murray Arundell"

>So does this mean that someone with a love of cars, little or no skill or

time but a few bucks is less of an enthusiast then those with time and skill available to do it themselves? Surely not........ Murray Brisbane Oz

> My subsequent point was that most of these guys don't put > anything into it at all - they often just throw money at a so > called "restorer" with a big chroming facility and no idea of > style and historic accuracy who then tows their car to PB > or wherever for the owner to pose beside!<

David and Joyce Edgar · Post by **David and Joyce Edgar** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 1:51 pm

I vowed not to extend this restoration semantics thread but here I am joining in. Some time back we got into a discussion where it was thrown out that, "Hey, it is our T and we should enjoy it the way we want to." If chroming the underside of the wings is what pleases us then go for it even though others may scoff at it. Want white wall tires? Do it. Want to put on a blower? Do it. Want to paint it a very pretty brown color? Do it. What would the world of TABC's be like if every one was original? Pretty dull. That said, what is the responsibility to maintain a complete, pure original T? IMHO there are T's out there that should be maintained as 100% original simply because they have survived this long in that condition and deserve the right to stay that way. One of our club members has a TC with the original paint except that the bonnet paint has worn off in places from years of waxing and polishing. I think it looks fantastic but well worn. But if someone buys one with designs of doing a PB show car and does it, then I will wipe a tear away and say if it was that important to save the car, I could have bought it myself and done it. If the PB owner over restores to pump up his/her ego then that is the way it goes. They are the caretaker. They are no less an enthusiast than I am. It is just that they are an ego enthusiast while think of myself as more of an MG TC enthusiast. Makes life interesting. And to be fair I don't characterize all PB's as ego needing show offs. There are real auto enthusiasts there too. Opening up myself to criticism, when I first bought my TC some 32 years ago, I, as a younger inexperienced MG'ist. I did something to my TC that maybe I should have left according to other enthusiast types. I took a racing TC (although not a historic one) and brought it back to more of an original looking example of a TC. Cut out the roll bar scrapped the side exiting exhaust, changed the 16" to 19" wires, replaced the missing fog light and horn, etc, etc. I did that because that is what I wanted at the time and the only way I could get it. OK you racer types, wipe away a tear. I did however keep both front brake backing plates with the bottom 3/4" worn away from having a front axle snap off at various times and the TC dragging the backing plate as an anchor to stop. Maybe there is a little racer in me wanting to get out. David Edgar, TC 5108 El Cajon, California

David and Joyce Edgar · Post by **David and Joyce Edgar** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 2:31 pm

Mark, maybe you should have indicated DPO instead of PO. Anyway, like I said, "Makes life interesting." Hopefully, the DPO's choice of colors netted you a better purchase price. IMHO and apparantly yours, black will look much better. David Edgar, TC 5108 Cream colored (although a '76 Ford cream which matches the cream on the MG badge)

>I dont know, David- If you had witnessed my "seafoam Pontiac green with >blaze orange undersides" TC paint job, applied in 1966 but never assembled >by the PO........ >Regards- >Mark TC8126 >soon to be black

murray arundell · Post by **murray arundell** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 3:42 pm

Actually I think you are all missing the point about the PB crowd. The finger of responsibility should be pointed at those who judge....... If the judges awarded "correctly" restored cars as apart from the one with the most chrome then surely the Chrome Tarts would disappear....... Also this Chrome fetish seems to be mostly in the USA, why is this? We don't see it much in Oz and I've not seen much of it in the UK either....... Murray Oz.

John G. Bulcken IV · Post by **John G. Bulcken IV** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 4:05 pm

Good point Murray but it is not mostly USA, as an old house restorer who has worked out of the USA yet am based there...Architecture too can lose it's patina and more and be IMHO destroyed by insensitive renovation like a car and the problem is international. There are many " tarted " up cars in the UK and Europe and I have seen OZ cars in books that are the same. I do agree that it is frustrating to do an accurate, and sensitive restoration and have it misunderstood by others including judges. ANY antique can be seen as less valuable if it is refinished unless it is absolutely necessary for it's survival...I better quit. Cheers, Johnny ( just back from NYC ) TB #0398

----- Original Message ----- From: "Murray Arundell" arundell@ecn.net.au> To: "T-ABC list" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>; "David and Joyce Edgar" djedgar@pacbell.net> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 6:41 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Over Restoration semantics > Actually I think you are all missing the point about the PB crowd. The > finger of responsibility should be pointed at those who judge....... If the > judges awarded "correctly" restored cars as apart from the one with the most > chrome then surely the Chrome Tarts would disappear....... > > Also this Chrome fetish seems to be mostly in the USA, why is this? We > don't see it much in Oz and I've not seen much of it in the UK either....... > > Murray > Oz. > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

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