Motor Number -EXU Models

[rkegg@juno.com]

I live in Maryland, and the DMV here are the dumbest bunch that you can imagine. Three years ago, I registered my TC here after importing it from Canada. The car has a gold seal engine in it, so the original XPAG engine number on the ID plate is no longer correct. I could not convince them to use the chassis number for the title. I brought the ID plate with me, talked with a supervisor, but no dice. So my car has an engine number on the title, and the engine is not even in the car. I might as well have been trying to convince my dog that the registration was being done incorrectly. The people at the DMV stared at me just like a labrador........ Randy Kegg TC9690 Glen Arm, MD On Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:05:19 -0800 Skip Kelsey kelsey@shadetreemotors.com> writes:

> Terry: > > Calif. registered all cars by engine no. up until 1956. After that > they > went to chassis nos. You can have your car re-registered by chassis > no. by > filling out a form and having the no. checked by either DMV or any > police > officer. I have done it on my TD, and my Y type. Not a problem. I > also had > my Y type authenticated as a 1948 model. It was mfgd. in mid 48, but > was > sold and registered as a 49, as was the custom in those days. I had > it > corrected at the time that I went to the chassis no. > > Skip > Kelsey............................................................. > > At 08:46 AM 11/22/01 -0500, taterry@aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 11/22/01 02:05:40 Pacific Standard Time, > >100070.740@compuserve.com writes: > > > > record > > and try and find the current USA situation - and track down > > what the Original requirements for customs and import in the USA > > in the 1940s and 50s? > > >> > > > >This is just speculation, but in earlier times, most cars were > registered > >using their engine numbers and not the chassis number. My TA is > registered > >that way. It was registered in Louisiana using the engine number > when it was > >imported in 1972 and I could not get California to understand that > it should > >be re-registered using the chassis number especially since the > orginal MPJG > >engine had been scrapped in Louisiana....so its still that way. I > gave up > >trying. > > > >Hence, there was perhaps, a desire by local authorities to have the > engine > >number stamped into the block to prevent the easy change of brass > tags. This > >would have been state by state and not a national requirement. > > > >Terry

________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

[Bob McClaren]

Same situation with TC 3443 here in Virginia. A factory replacement motor but the car is still titled as XPAG XXXX. The number on the engine tag is 25,000 something. The chassis number on the original id plate matches the stamped number on the left dumb iron and the Virginia title has the same XPAG number as the scuttle id plate...I'm happy. For what it is worth, I once owned two TDs, a '52 EXLNA (Export Left Hand Drive North America)and a '51 EXR (Export Right Hand Drive). Both had the engine numbers stamped in the block below the engine number brass plate. More fodder for the grist mill. Bob McClaren Virginia Beach TC 3443

[sculptart@aol.com]

It sounds as if Maryland and Colorado have the same people at the DMV. When I set out to register the TC, I had to find someone that could understand MG is a real make of a car, the ID for the car is not 35 characters long and the thing weighs less than a ton. I found some old so 'n so that thought MGs were an old model of a Packard and tried to insert this into the title. Her supervisor advised her that English cars were not made after 1940 so I probably had a German car. Finally I got all the right bits of information on the title and only the odometer reading was incorrect. I let that one stand...the car has never been driven according to the title. Suits me. Happy Holidays everyone, Ben

[Charles Hill]

A few years ago, I got a listing of all the TCs titled in my home state of Missouri. Not a very large sample, but about half of them were identified by engine number and the rest by frame number. Everything was a whole lot more casual back then. I remember when I titled my Morgan +4 in Texas. At that time, the license fee was based vehicle weight. The car had a California title and of course, no weight was listed. The DMV clerk pulled out her NADA book to find the shipping weight. Surprise, surprise, they don't have any Morgan listings. I told her that the car had a Triumph TR3 engine and was a similar car so we decided to use the TR3 weight for the title. We were both happy. Getting information recorded is not that hard. But once anything is entered in DMV records, it seems to be almost impossible to change it. Regards, Charles Hill

[Ray]

> Getting information recorded is not that hard. But once anything is > entered in DMV records, it seems to be almost impossible to change it.

When the restoration was complete, I took our Morris Minor down to obtain plates here in Tennessee and discovered that there was an additional letter stamped slightly above (out of line with) the serial number, in a slightly different style of stamp. I think it was a "D"..... The pinhead who inspected the serial number made me change the number recorded on the title, even though the car was originally sold here in Tennessee (indeed, here in Nashville)! The additional letter had very obviously been added later. Changing the title meant driving all over town to two other facilities to effect the change. Common sense is dead, and buried deeply......at least I was able to get my $25 for life plate! Best, Ray

[Emgeeguy@aol.com]

When I took my MG NB out to the California Highway Patrol to get the number verified and get it registered, the fellow had me immediately tow it into the impound yard, which I thought was rather strange and led me to believe that there were worse things ahead. The car didn't run at that point, and was all together. I told him that the number was stamped on the dumbiron under the front fender. He couldn't find it, and wasn't about to let me go with the car until the fenders were removed from the car, which is no small task when you are sitting in a Highway Patrol impound yard a few miles from home. He didn't believe me when I told him where the number was, and disappeared inside to call Moss Motors in Goleta. Nobody there knew what an NB was, but eventually he was directed to Chris Nowlan, which was lucky for me, because Chris knew what I was doing and knew the car. Chris managed to convince him that what I was saying was true, so the fellow took my word that I wouldn't drive the car until I took the fenders off and went back to show him the number. I went home, removed the fenders, went to buy some number stamps, made sure that the correct number was indeed visible on the dumbiron, and went down to the local DMV place, instead of the Calif Highway Patrol place, and the inspector didn't even look at the car! He looked at the paperwork, and did the registration. What a bunch of smart people they have working there! Larry Long

[LuckyFloridaLin@aol.com]

Dear Larry ; Sounds like that guy escaped from a Looney Tune cartoon. That is a topper for the ones discussed so far. Tally Ho! Thom Collins

[Diecuts@aol.com]

Hi all, The Detroit Police have a unique policy when it comes time to verify VIN numbers. First the appropriate forms are obtained from the Secretary of State. One is for the police officer to sign. Station 6, which covers the area where my cars are, will only verify VINs on Fridays from 7AM to Noon, and only when it is raining. The reasoning is that on non-rainy days the officers are looking for and tracking stolen and abandoned vehicles. Can't do that in the rain, hence the policy of checking cars inside buildings. Why only Friday I'm not sure. I guess they do paperwork when it's raining on the other days. For several weeks the weather and Fridays did not click, but one Friday I got the call, and sure enough, it was drizzling. We met at the warehouse, and he didn't question the fact that all the VIN numbers were on plates and sort of resting on the vehicles, which, were two MGSAs (Tickford and Saloon, and two XK120 OTS jags. The usual questions, ie"what is a MG?' and have any of these cars run in the last 3 years? (Try 35 years!!) 5 minutes later all was computer searched and signed, and an hour later I had titles for all and plates for one of the Jags. Not bad, except for the wait.... but none of the cars are even close to functional except for the Jag, and that not until spring so even the wait wasn't so bad...... Cheers, Lee Jacobsen, Dearborn, MI TA2969, TC 0780

[paulhuck@bellsouth.net]

My 2 cents worth: When I bought MGTC 9912 in 1979, it had a $25 forever plate. When I called to inquire on a new plate ( I had seen numbers around 9800 being issued, they told me they were at 9843. I called back in a month, they were at 9862. I called back in another month, they were at 9898, called back in 2 weeks, they were at 9906. I called the next day, still 9906, every day calls: 9907, 99-7, 9907, 9908. They said, "Look, we will give you 9912 if you stop calling. " I said OK. So now, my Antique plate 9912 matches the chassis number 9912. I paid my @25 for a forever plate. Turns out forever in Alabama is only about 15 years. They revised the antique requirements: seems some people had been fixing in 1965 Mustangs etc and driving them daily. The required Antique to be 30 instead of 245 years old. and a new style tag issued. The was a "Vintage tag" known as a VAG TAG. No cost, since II already had an antique, but no way to get 9912. I drove the car with 9912 for 5 years,and the VAG TAG 82 behind the seat. I was stopped twice in 5 years,produced the tag and let go. The third stopping, the officer told me the tag had to be displayed. Hence I bolted the VAG TAG to the Antique tag and drive with both on the rear, VAG above Antique. So There !! Second story, not on an MG but the same beauracracy: I bought a gray market Mercedes, a 1981 500SE, in 1987. I had used Allstate insurance for 23 years. no problem. I insured the 500 with Allstate. After 6 months, they wanted to verify the VIN#. My car never had a VIN number, only a serial number. I verified it was correct. they asked for verification 7 more times,over 3 months. Finally, my agent brought over a Polaroid camera and took a picture of the serial number, and sent that with a letter certifying he had seen and verified the number. Guess what. They asked him to verify the number again. Holding a picture in their hands, they wanted him to verify is again. he did. A month later, I got a letter canceling my insurance. The "VIN number provided does not fit out computer format". By then, all my insurances on all 5 cars was coming up. I called USAA and changed all to USAA, no problems. 2 months later, I got a letter from Allstate asking what they did wrong, asking why I had no renewed my insurance with them. I sent copies to their own letters, all the verification letters, as Xerox of the photo of the SN, their cancellation letters etc. Guess what ? They asked me to verify the VIN number on the Mercedes again. 'In good hands ?' HA? I laughed when their recent ads said ' Driving record not perfect? Callus for a price, we make special exceptions our rule." Sure they do. I have been happy with USAA since 1989. If it does not fit their format, they are lost. PTH

----- Original Message ----- From: diecuts@aol.com> To: LuckyFloridaLin@aol.com>; Emgeeguy@aol.com>; SCULPTART@aol.com>; rkegg@juno.com>; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Cc: Diecuts@aol.com> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 9:47 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Motor Number -EXU Models > Hi all, > > The Detroit Police have a unique policy when it comes time to verify VIN > numbers. First the appropriate forms are obtained from the Secretary of > State. One is for the police officer to sign. Station 6, which covers the > area where my cars are, will only verify VINs on Fridays from 7AM to Noon, > and only when it is raining. The reasoning is that on non-rainy days the > officers are looking for and tracking stolen and abandoned vehicles. Can't do > that in the rain, hence the policy of checking cars inside buildings. Why > only Friday I'm not sure. I guess they do paperwork when it's raining on the > other days. For several weeks the weather and Fridays did not click, but > one Friday I got the call, and sure enough, it was drizzling. > We met at the warehouse, and he didn't question the fact that all the VIN > numbers were on plates and sort of resting on the vehicles, which, were two > MGSAs (Tickford and Saloon, and two XK120 OTS jags. The usual questions, > ie"what is a MG?' and have any of these cars run in the last 3 years? (Try > 35 years!!) 5 minutes later all was computer searched and signed, and an > hour later I had titles for all and plates for one of the Jags. Not bad, > except for the wait.... but none of the cars are even close to functional > except for the Jag, and that not until spring so even the wait wasn't so > bad...... > > Cheers, Lee Jacobsen, Dearborn, MI TA2969, TC 0780 > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

[Bill Harkins]

and the inspector didn't even look at the car! He looked at the paperwork, and did the registration. What a bunch of smart people they have working there!

Are these the folks that are upgrading their careers to Airport Security?

Bill