Lucas

[1939mgtb]

Well, Audi just won Le Mans with their turbo diesels. Pretty reliable. In the '70's, M-B imported a large number of Turks to work in the factory and had some problems with fit and finish due to the not-so-familiar-with-quality labor group. 'Course, I never saw a Chevy dressed up like a M-B, either. Remember when RR sued some outfit for dressing up a bloated Chevy like a RR, and people who saw it actually thought it was a real Roller?!?!? What a howler! Lucas components are reliable if you compare them to other componently of the same year. Nippondenso is good, too. But the strength of the Japanese is in synthesizing other's ideas and improving them. Not a put-down. The Romans were particularly successful at the same trick. British engineers and engineering are topnotch. That's why Ford hired so many. Most new cars are like washing machines, anyway. Not really very interesting unless your jeans need washing. Best, Ray "Save yourself for Kinky and save our friggin' state!" http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/index.html Kinky Friedman for Governor of Texas!!

----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Waters To: Sally Carroll ; barcc@eastlink.ca Cc: Group T ABC's Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Lucas This thread seems to be about quality. I would say that there is sufficient evidence out there to show that new German cars (BMW and Mercedes) do not have great reliability. Never owned a Rolls, but the low production volume mitigated against the factory ever getting everything right. If quality means assembly fit and finish, plus reliability, the Japanese seem tough to beat. However, I happen to love the quirks and foibles of my old MG, and find my Acura to be completely characterless. -Rick Waters ----- Original Message ---- From: Sally Carroll jim.n.sally.carroll@worldnet.att.net> To: barcc@eastlink.ca Cc: Group T ABC's mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 12:40:02 PM Subject: [mg-tabc] Lucas Hey guys get off that particular band wagon. . . Lucas is/was Bad! Lucas had the capability to make much better products. . but MG wouldn't pay the required price. GM has/had the same credo "Don't tell me how to make it better, tell me how to make it cheaper" Only Rolls Royce, to my knowledge required the BEST QUALITY of every part in order to make a vehicle dependable and lasting, regardless of cost. And most owners of those had a full time mechanic/chauffeur to attend to them. They actually had to be trained at the Rolls factory to be allowed employment and responsibility for those very nice luxury cars. Can you imagine Mr. Ferrari requiring any prospective owner to attend a school before being allowed to spend his money on a Dino? These days we have knockoffs of cheap goods. . cheaper still. And yes it's a painful fact of life that the current rotors in particular are not good reproductions. .. I too have had numerous problems with them. And with the carbon posts in Dizzy caps as well. Sally Carroll ---------- My scanner says No virus has been found in this outgoing message. I try to update frequently. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.4/363 - Release Date: 6/13/2006 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Gordon Bruce Lawson]

I'm sure there isn't one of us who at some point or other hasn't wished the T would "run like my 3 series", "accelerate like my Mazda", "corner like my Escort"... However... I don't think there is one of us who would give up looking over that long skinny hood, past those huge gorgeous headlights just to have a bit of comfort and speed. I think we all appreciate these 50+ year old English cars for what they are and were...small sports cars meant for the tight cornered roads of Great Britain in the 30's, 40's and 50's! Am sure others like myself look for every twisty, windy road they can find and usually choose to stay off the old straight divided highways! And when was the last time you drove your 7 Series or Lexus through a little town and had someone stop and smile and wave...and say "Hey, look at that Mom...what is it"? Nope... my daily driver is fine for knowing I will make it to an important appointment without losing the fuel pump, or loading it with groceries...but when I pull back a car cover, I want to see that old chipped black lacquer and cracked green leather staring up at me...and I want to hear that unique sound of an MG starter pop the little XPAG to life...giving me ticking tappets, not soundless lifters. enjoy 'em all (I parked a 535i 5speed the day I bought the TD and it hasn't moved since) -- Gordon Lawson 1953 MG TD http://www3.sympatico.ca/gordonblawson/td/td.html MG-T Data Base: http://www.niagarabritishcarclub.org/mgtnumbers/numbers.html

[Paul Huck]

I agree, my other car is a BMW too, with 311435 mils on it. It has required some maintenance, but nothing major (yet). The TC has had 2 engine rebuilds. The line of the TC are just 'right'. As stated before, it looks as rakish sitting still as in motion. Sadly, when we get the proverbial question "What is it?" and we answer "MG", I still see a blank look. What is that? Out of production since 1982, a whole generation has come up without remembering those little British sports cars that we love. Yeah, even the later ones, Triumphs included, Jags, Sunbeams etc in addition to out beloved T-series. (I still have my First car, and 1967 Midget, 1st blue 1275 in Alabama). Both MGs are fun to drive. Neither is perfect, but I feel like Snoopy getting ready to fly his Sopwith Camel when I get in the TC. One of the things wrong with 'us; today, is we are all in out own houses. We no longer sit on the front porch and greet neighbors as they stroll by on the sidewalk (remember those?). We also are in our cars with the A/C going, windows up, sealing out the world, CD playing, or on our hands-free cell phone. Maybe that is why those of us that choose the simple little cars enjoy the open air, not only the air and breeze, but the SMELLS, the temperature changes as we top a sunny hill or the coolness as we round a curve down in the valley by the creek bridge. Just listen to the car, engine, suspension working, etc. No need for a radio, CD player. MGs are just fun to drive. Modern cars are transportation. My BMW is fun to corner with too, but much different from the TC or Midget. All 3 of my cars are fun to drive.Each a different personality, each a different need. Paul Huck TC 9912 Midget BMW 525i 1993

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Bruce Lawson" gblawson@vaxxine.com> To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 1:30 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Lucas > I'm sure there isn't one of us who at some point or other hasn't > wished the T would "run like my 3 series", "accelerate like my > Mazda", "corner like my Escort"... However... I don't think there is > one of us who would give up looking over that long skinny hood, past > those huge gorgeous headlights just to have a bit of comfort and > speed. I think we all appreciate these 50+ year old English cars for > what they are and were...small sports cars meant for the tight > cornered roads of Great Britain in the 30's, 40's and 50's! Am sure > others like myself look for every twisty, windy road they can find > and usually choose to stay off the old straight divided highways! And > when was the last time you drove your 7 Series or Lexus through a > little town and had someone stop and smile and wave...and say "Hey, > look at that Mom...what is it"? > Nope... my daily driver is fine for knowing I will make it to an > important appointment without losing the fuel pump, or loading it > with groceries...but when I pull back a car cover, I want to see that > old chipped black lacquer and cracked green leather staring up at > me...and I want to hear that unique sound of an MG starter pop the > little XPAG to life...giving me ticking tappets, not soundless > lifters. > > enjoy 'em all > > (I parked a 535i 5speed the day I bought the TD and it hasn't moved since) > > -- > Gordon Lawson > 1953 MG TD > http://www3.sympatico.ca/gordonblawson/td/td.html > MG-T Data Base: > http://www.niagarabritishcarclub.org/mgtnumbers/numbers.html > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

[murray arundell]

Hi Team, Have been watching this thread with interest, and the thing that everyone seems to have missed with the Lucas thing and indeed the British v German reliability thing is this........ Design. There is nothing wrong with the quality of British Engineering nor indeed with the workmanship. Its cheap design that has caused most of the problems we encounter (plus the fact that most of the bits we're dealing with are 50 years old). In the history of the motorcar there are some outstanding examples of design shortcuts and indeed design stupidity. Perhaps one of the most glaring (or rediculous) examples of this is from the recognised brilliant British Car designer Issigonis. Who in a master stroke of lunacy designed not one car but several cars who's primary market was arguably a country with one of the world's wettest climates. Issigonis' master stroke was to put the distributor in the one part of the car guarenteed to be the wettest in the event of rain....... So in one fell swoop turing a line of otherwise perfectly reliable automobiles into unreliable dogs every time a cloud appeared...... Even here in Oz where rain is not something we see often, the FWD Morris and Austin products were avoided like the plague because of this. Lucas parts that were well designed go on working for an age, and there were many of these. However they are over shadowed by the performance of their poorly designed brothers. Murray Arundell -----Original Message----- From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 1939mgtb Sent: Monday, 19 June 2006 1:22 am To: Rick Waters; Sally Carroll; barcc@eastlink.ca Cc: Group T ABC's Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Lucas Well, Audi just won Le Mans with their turbo diesels. Pretty reliable. In the '70's, M-B imported a large number of Turks to work in the factory and had some problems with fit and finish due to the not-so-familiar-with-quality labor group. 'Course, I never saw a Chevy dressed up like a M-B, either. Remember when RR sued some outfit for dressing up a bloated Chevy like a RR, and people who saw it actually thought it was a real Roller?!?!? What a howler! Lucas components are reliable if you compare them to other componently of the same year. Nippondenso is good, too. But the strength of the Japanese is in synthesizing other's ideas and improving them. Not a put-down. The Romans were particularly successful at the same trick. British engineers and engineering are topnotch. That's why Ford hired so many. Most new cars are like washing machines, anyway. Not really very interesting unless your jeans need washing. Best, Ray "Save yourself for Kinky and save our friggin' state!" http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/index.html Kinky Friedman for Governor of Texas!!

----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Waters To: Sally Carroll ; barcc@eastlink.ca Cc: Group T ABC's Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Lucas This thread seems to be about quality. I would say that there is sufficient evidence out there to show that new German cars (BMW and Mercedes) do not have great reliability. Never owned a Rolls, but the low production volume mitigated against the factory ever getting everything right. If quality means assembly fit and finish, plus reliability, the Japanese seem tough to beat. However, I happen to love the quirks and foibles of my old MG, and find my Acura to be completely characterless. -Rick Waters ----- Original Message ---- From: Sally Carroll jim.n.sally.carroll@worldnet.att.net> To: barcc@eastlink.ca Cc: Group T ABC's mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 12:40:02 PM Subject: [mg-tabc] Lucas Hey guys get off that particular band wagon. . . Lucas is/was Bad! Lucas had the capability to make much better products. . but MG wouldn't pay the required price. GM has/had the same credo "Don't tell me how to make it better, tell me how to make it cheaper" Only Rolls Royce, to my knowledge required the BEST QUALITY of every part in order to make a vehicle dependable and lasting, regardless of cost. And most owners of those had a full time mechanic/chauffeur to attend to them. They actually had to be trained at the Rolls factory to be allowed employment and responsibility for those very nice luxury cars. Can you imagine Mr. Ferrari requiring any prospective owner to attend a school before being allowed to spend his money on a Dino? These days we have knockoffs of cheap goods. . cheaper still. And yes it's a painful fact of life that the current rotors in particular are not good reproductions. .. I too have had numerous problems with them. And with the carbon posts in Dizzy caps as well. Sally Carroll ---------- My scanner says No virus has been found in this outgoing message. I try to update frequently. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.4/363 - Release Date: 6/13/2006 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links

[Peter Roberts]

Murray, Clearly, you never suffered through the 70's Jaguars. Fuel pumps, rocker switches, wiring contacts, cat converters, the list was endless. Not so much a design problem as a labor-management problem. Ruined the reputation of a fine marque that still suffers. Peter

----- Original Message ----- From: Murray Arundell To: '1939mgtb' ; 'Rick Waters' ; 'Sally Carroll' ; barcc@eastlink.ca Cc: 'Group T ABC's' Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:45 PM Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Lucas Hi Team, Have been watching this thread with interest, and the thing that everyone seems to have missed with the Lucas thing and indeed the British v German reliability thing is this........ Design. There is nothing wrong with the quality of British Engineering nor indeed with the workmanship. Its cheap design that has caused most of the problems we encounter (plus the fact that most of the bits we're dealing with are 50 years old). In the history of the motorcar there are some outstanding examples of design shortcuts and indeed design stupidity. Perhaps one of the most glaring (or rediculous) examples of this is from the recognised brilliant British Car designer Issigonis. Who in a master stroke of lunacy designed not one car but several cars who's primary market was arguably a country with one of the world's wettest climates. Issigonis' master stroke was to put the distributor in the one part of the car guarenteed to be the wettest in the event of rain....... So in one fell swoop turing a line of otherwise perfectly reliable automobiles into unreliable dogs every time a cloud appeared...... Even here in Oz where rain is not something we see often, the FWD Morris and Austin products were avoided like the plague because of this. Lucas parts that were well designed go on working for an age, and there were many of these. However they are over shadowed by the performance of their poorly designed brothers. Murray Arundell -----Original Message----- From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 1939mgtb Sent: Monday, 19 June 2006 1:22 am To: Rick Waters; Sally Carroll; barcc@eastlink.ca Cc: Group T ABC's Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Lucas Well, Audi just won Le Mans with their turbo diesels. Pretty reliable. In the '70's, M-B imported a large number of Turks to work in the factory and had some problems with fit and finish due to the not-so-familiar-with-quality labor group. 'Course, I never saw a Chevy dressed up like a M-B, either. Remember when RR sued some outfit for dressing up a bloated Chevy like a RR, and people who saw it actually thought it was a real Roller?!?!? What a howler! Lucas components are reliable if you compare them to other componently of the same year. Nippondenso is good, too. But the strength of the Japanese is in synthesizing other's ideas and improving them. Not a put-down. The Romans were particularly successful at the same trick. British engineers and engineering are topnotch. That's why Ford hired so many. Most new cars are like washing machines, anyway. Not really very interesting unless your jeans need washing. Best, Ray "Save yourself for Kinky and save our friggin' state!" http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/index.html Kinky Friedman for Governor of Texas!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Waters To: Sally Carroll ; barcc@eastlink.ca Cc: Group T ABC's Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Lucas This thread seems to be about quality. I would say that there is sufficient evidence out there to show that new German cars (BMW and Mercedes) do not have great reliability. Never owned a Rolls, but the low production volume mitigated against the factory ever getting everything right. If quality means assembly fit and finish, plus reliability, the Japanese seem tough to beat. However, I happen to love the quirks and foibles of my old MG, and find my Acura to be completely characterless. -Rick Waters ----- Original Message ---- From: Sally Carroll jim.n.sally.carroll@worldnet.att.net> To: barcc@eastlink.ca Cc: Group T ABC's mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 12:40:02 PM Subject: [mg-tabc] Lucas Hey guys get off that particular band wagon. . . Lucas is/was Bad! Lucas had the capability to make much better products. . but MG wouldn't pay the required price. GM has/had the same credo "Don't tell me how to make it better, tell me how to make it cheaper" Only Rolls Royce, to my knowledge required the BEST QUALITY of every part in order to make a vehicle dependable and lasting, regardless of cost. And most owners of those had a full time mechanic/chauffeur to attend to them. They actually had to be trained at the Rolls factory to be allowed employment and responsibility for those very nice luxury cars. Can you imagine Mr. Ferrari requiring any prospective owner to attend a school before being allowed to spend his money on a Dino? These days we have knockoffs of cheap goods. . cheaper still. And yes it's a painful fact of life that the current rotors in particular are not good reproductions. .. I too have had numerous problems with them. And with the carbon posts in Dizzy caps as well. Sally Carroll ---------- My scanner says No virus has been found in this outgoing message. I try to update frequently. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.4/363 - Release Date: 6/13/2006 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[1939mgtb]

Hi Guys, May I a recommend a book, The End of The Road, which details the end of the British car industry as we knew and loved it? The failures were caused by a myriad of things coming together in a nearly cosmic fashion. There is enough blame to go around. And just some bad luck thrown in, too. Best, Ray "Save yourself for Kinky and save our friggin' state!" http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/index.html Kinky Friedman for Governor of Texas!!

----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Roberts To: '1939mgtb' ; 'Rick Waters' ; 'Sally Carroll' ; barcc@eastlink.ca ; Murray Arundell Cc: 'Group T ABC's' Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 6:11 AM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Lucas Murray, Clearly, you never suffered through the 70's Jaguars. Fuel pumps, rocker switches, wiring contacts, cat converters, the list was endless. Not so much a design problem as a labor-management problem. Ruined the reputation of a fine marque that still suffers. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: Murray Arundell To: '1939mgtb' ; 'Rick Waters' ; 'Sally Carroll' ; barcc@eastlink.ca Cc: 'Group T ABC's' Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:45 PM Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Lucas Hi Team, Have been watching this thread with interest, and the thing that everyone seems to have missed with the Lucas thing and indeed the British v German reliability thing is this........ Design. There is nothing wrong with the quality of British Engineering nor indeed with the workmanship. Its cheap design that has caused most of the problems we encounter (plus the fact that most of the bits we're dealing with are 50 years old). In the history of the motorcar there are some outstanding examples of design shortcuts and indeed design stupidity. Perhaps one of the most glaring (or rediculous) examples of this is from the recognised brilliant British Car designer Issigonis. Who in a master stroke of lunacy designed not one car but several cars who's primary market was arguably a country with one of the world's wettest climates. Issigonis' master stroke was to put the distributor in the one part of the car guarenteed to be the wettest in the event of rain....... So in one fell swoop turing a line of otherwise perfectly reliable automobiles into unreliable dogs every time a cloud appeared...... Even here in Oz where rain is not something we see often, the FWD Morris and Austin products were avoided like the plague because of this. Lucas parts that were well designed go on working for an age, and there were many of these. However they are over shadowed by the performance of their poorly designed brothers. Murray Arundell -----Original Message----- From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 1939mgtb Sent: Monday, 19 June 2006 1:22 am To: Rick Waters; Sally Carroll; barcc@eastlink.ca Cc: Group T ABC's Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Lucas Well, Audi just won Le Mans with their turbo diesels. Pretty reliable. In the '70's, M-B imported a large number of Turks to work in the factory and had some problems with fit and finish due to the not-so-familiar-with-quality labor group. 'Course, I never saw a Chevy dressed up like a M-B, either. Remember when RR sued some outfit for dressing up a bloated Chevy like a RR, and people who saw it actually thought it was a real Roller?!?!? What a howler! Lucas components are reliable if you compare them to other componently of the same year. Nippondenso is good, too. But the strength of the Japanese is in synthesizing other's ideas and improving them. Not a put-down. The Romans were particularly successful at the same trick. British engineers and engineering are topnotch. That's why Ford hired so many. Most new cars are like washing machines, anyway. Not really very interesting unless your jeans need washing. Best, Ray "Save yourself for Kinky and save our friggin' state!" http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/index.html Kinky Friedman for Governor of Texas!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Waters To: Sally Carroll ; barcc@eastlink.ca Cc: Group T ABC's Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Lucas This thread seems to be about quality. I would say that there is sufficient evidence out there to show that new German cars (BMW and Mercedes) do not have great reliability. Never owned a Rolls, but the low production volume mitigated against the factory ever getting everything right. If quality means assembly fit and finish, plus reliability, the Japanese seem tough to beat. However, I happen to love the quirks and foibles of my old MG, and find my Acura to be completely characterless. -Rick Waters ----- Original Message ---- From: Sally Carroll jim.n.sally.carroll@worldnet.att.net> To: barcc@eastlink.ca Cc: Group T ABC's mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 12:40:02 PM Subject: [mg-tabc] Lucas Hey guys get off that particular band wagon. . . Lucas is/was Bad! Lucas had the capability to make much better products. . but MG wouldn't pay the required price. GM has/had the same credo "Don't tell me how to make it better, tell me how to make it cheaper" Only Rolls Royce, to my knowledge required the BEST QUALITY of every part in order to make a vehicle dependable and lasting, regardless of cost. And most owners of those had a full time mechanic/chauffeur to attend to them. They actually had to be trained at the Rolls factory to be allowed employment and responsibility for those very nice luxury cars. Can you imagine Mr. Ferrari requiring any prospective owner to attend a school before being allowed to spend his money on a Dino? These days we have knockoffs of cheap goods. . cheaper still. And yes it's a painful fact of life that the current rotors in particular are not good reproductions. .. I too have had numerous problems with them. And with the carbon posts in Dizzy caps as well. Sally Carroll ---------- My scanner says No virus has been found in this outgoing message. I try to update frequently. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.4/363 - Release Date: 6/13/2006 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Peter Roberts]

Ray, I recommend reading the book from the back seat of a 2006 Jaguar Vanden Plas. One of the finest British cars ever made! _Peter

----- Original Message ----- From: 1939mgtb To: 'Rick Waters' ; 'Sally Carroll' ; barcc@eastlink.ca ; Murray Arundell ; Peter Roberts Cc: 'Group T ABC's' Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:31 AM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Lucas Hi Guys, May I a recommend a book, The End of The Road, which details the end of the British car industry as we knew and loved it? The failures were caused by a myriad of things coming together in a nearly cosmic fashion. There is enough blame to go around. And just some bad luck thrown in, too. Best, Ray "Save yourself for Kinky and save our friggin' state!" http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/index.html Kinky Friedman for Governor of Texas!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Roberts To: '1939mgtb' ; 'Rick Waters' ; 'Sally Carroll' ; barcc@eastlink.ca ; Murray Arundell Cc: 'Group T ABC's' Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 6:11 AM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Lucas Murray, Clearly, you never suffered through the 70's Jaguars. Fuel pumps, rocker switches, wiring contacts, cat converters, the list was endless. Not so much a design problem as a labor-management problem. Ruined the reputation of a fine marque that still suffers. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: Murray Arundell To: '1939mgtb' ; 'Rick Waters' ; 'Sally Carroll' ; barcc@eastlink.ca Cc: 'Group T ABC's' Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:45 PM Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Lucas Hi Team, Have been watching this thread with interest, and the thing that everyone seems to have missed with the Lucas thing and indeed the British v German reliability thing is this........ Design. There is nothing wrong with the quality of British Engineering nor indeed with the workmanship. Its cheap design that has caused most of the problems we encounter (plus the fact that most of the bits we're dealing with are 50 years old). In the history of the motorcar there are some outstanding examples of design shortcuts and indeed design stupidity. Perhaps one of the most glaring (or rediculous) examples of this is from the recognised brilliant British Car designer Issigonis. Who in a master stroke of lunacy designed not one car but several cars who's primary market was arguably a country with one of the world's wettest climates. Issigonis' master stroke was to put the distributor in the one part of the car guarenteed to be the wettest in the event of rain....... So in one fell swoop turing a line of otherwise perfectly reliable automobiles into unreliable dogs every time a cloud appeared...... Even here in Oz where rain is not something we see often, the FWD Morris and Austin products were avoided like the plague because of this. Lucas parts that were well designed go on working for an age, and there were many of these. However they are over shadowed by the performance of their poorly designed brothers. Murray Arundell -----Original Message----- From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 1939mgtb Sent: Monday, 19 June 2006 1:22 am To: Rick Waters; Sally Carroll; barcc@eastlink.ca Cc: Group T ABC's Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Lucas Well, Audi just won Le Mans with their turbo diesels. Pretty reliable. In the '70's, M-B imported a large number of Turks to work in the factory and had some problems with fit and finish due to the not-so-familiar-with-quality labor group. 'Course, I never saw a Chevy dressed up like a M-B, either. Remember when RR sued some outfit for dressing up a bloated Chevy like a RR, and people who saw it actually thought it was a real Roller?!?!? What a howler! Lucas components are reliable if you compare them to other componently of the same year. Nippondenso is good, too. But the strength of the Japanese is in synthesizing other's ideas and improving them. Not a put-down. The Romans were particularly successful at the same trick. British engineers and engineering are topnotch. That's why Ford hired so many. Most new cars are like washing machines, anyway. Not really very interesting unless your jeans need washing. Best, Ray "Save yourself for Kinky and save our friggin' state!" http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/index.html Kinky Friedman for Governor of Texas!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Waters To: Sally Carroll ; barcc@eastlink.ca Cc: Group T ABC's Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Lucas This thread seems to be about quality. I would say that there is sufficient evidence out there to show that new German cars (BMW and Mercedes) do not have great reliability. Never owned a Rolls, but the low production volume mitigated against the factory ever getting everything right. If quality means assembly fit and finish, plus reliability, the Japanese seem tough to beat. However, I happen to love the quirks and foibles of my old MG, and find my Acura to be completely characterless. -Rick Waters ----- Original Message ---- From: Sally Carroll jim.n.sally.carroll@worldnet.att.net> To: barcc@eastlink.ca Cc: Group T ABC's mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 12:40:02 PM Subject: [mg-tabc] Lucas Hey guys get off that particular band wagon. . . Lucas is/was Bad! Lucas had the capability to make much better products. . but MG wouldn't pay the required price. GM has/had the same credo "Don't tell me how to make it better, tell me how to make it cheaper" Only Rolls Royce, to my knowledge required the BEST QUALITY of every part in order to make a vehicle dependable and lasting, regardless of cost. And most owners of those had a full time mechanic/chauffeur to attend to them. They actually had to be trained at the Rolls factory to be allowed employment and responsibility for those very nice luxury cars. Can you imagine Mr. Ferrari requiring any prospective owner to attend a school before being allowed to spend his money on a Dino? These days we have knockoffs of cheap goods. . cheaper still. And yes it's a painful fact of life that the current rotors in particular are not good reproductions. .. I too have had numerous problems with them. And with the carbon posts in Dizzy caps as well. Sally Carroll ---------- My scanner says No virus has been found in this outgoing message. I try to update frequently. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.4/363 - Release Date: 6/13/2006 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[1939mgtb]

A tongue in cheek reply if I ever saw one! But yes it is a very fine car and is still made in England! Best, Ray "The friendliness and charity of our countrymen can always be relied upon to relieve their fellow-citizens in misfortune. Federal aid in such cases encourages the expectation of paternal care on the part of the government and weakens the sturdiness of our national character."

----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Roberts To: 1939mgtb ; 'Rick Waters' ; 'Sally Carroll' ; barcc@eastlink.ca ; Murray Arundell Cc: 'Group T ABC's' Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:00 AM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Lucas Ray, I recommend reading the book from the back seat of a 2006 Jaguar Vanden Plas. One of the finest British cars ever made! _Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: 1939mgtb To: 'Rick Waters' ; 'Sally Carroll' ; barcc@eastlink.ca ; Murray Arundell ; Peter Roberts Cc: 'Group T ABC's' Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:31 AM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Lucas Hi Guys, May I a recommend a book, The End of The Road, which details the end of the British car industry as we knew and loved it? The failures were caused by a myriad of things coming together in a nearly cosmic fashion. There is enough blame to go around. And just some bad luck thrown in, too. Best, Ray "Save yourself for Kinky and save our friggin' state!" http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/index.html Kinky Friedman for Governor of Texas!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Roberts To: '1939mgtb' ; 'Rick Waters' ; 'Sally Carroll' ; barcc@eastlink.ca ; Murray Arundell Cc: 'Group T ABC's' Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 6:11 AM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Lucas Murray, Clearly, you never suffered through the 70's Jaguars. Fuel pumps, rocker switches, wiring contacts, cat converters, the list was endless. Not so much a design problem as a labor-management problem. Ruined the reputation of a fine marque that still suffers. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: Murray Arundell To: '1939mgtb' ; 'Rick Waters' ; 'Sally Carroll' ; barcc@eastlink.ca Cc: 'Group T ABC's' Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:45 PM Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Lucas Hi Team, Have been watching this thread with interest, and the thing that everyone seems to have missed with the Lucas thing and indeed the British v German reliability thing is this........ Design. There is nothing wrong with the quality of British Engineering nor indeed with the workmanship. Its cheap design that has caused most of the problems we encounter (plus the fact that most of the bits we're dealing with are 50 years old). In the history of the motorcar there are some outstanding examples of design shortcuts and indeed design stupidity. Perhaps one of the most glaring (or rediculous) examples of this is from the recognised brilliant British Car designer Issigonis. Who in a master stroke of lunacy designed not one car but several cars who's primary market was arguably a country with one of the world's wettest climates. Issigonis' master stroke was to put the distributor in the one part of the car guarenteed to be the wettest in the event of rain....... So in one fell swoop turing a line of otherwise perfectly reliable automobiles into unreliable dogs every time a cloud appeared...... Even here in Oz where rain is not something we see often, the FWD Morris and Austin products were avoided like the plague because of this. Lucas parts that were well designed go on working for an age, and there were many of these. However they are over shadowed by the performance of their poorly designed brothers. Murray Arundell -----Original Message----- From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 1939mgtb Sent: Monday, 19 June 2006 1:22 am To: Rick Waters; Sally Carroll; barcc@eastlink.ca Cc: Group T ABC's Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Lucas Well, Audi just won Le Mans with their turbo diesels. Pretty reliable. In the '70's, M-B imported a large number of Turks to work in the factory and had some problems with fit and finish due to the not-so-familiar-with-quality labor group. 'Course, I never saw a Chevy dressed up like a M-B, either. Remember when RR sued some outfit for dressing up a bloated Chevy like a RR, and people who saw it actually thought it was a real Roller?!?!? What a howler! Lucas components are reliable if you compare them to other componently of the same year. Nippondenso is good, too. But the strength of the Japanese is in synthesizing other's ideas and improving them. Not a put-down. The Romans were particularly successful at the same trick. British engineers and engineering are topnotch. That's why Ford hired so many. Most new cars are like washing machines, anyway. Not really very interesting unless your jeans need washing. Best, Ray "Save yourself for Kinky and save our friggin' state!" http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/index.html Kinky Friedman for Governor of Texas!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Waters To: Sally Carroll ; barcc@eastlink.ca Cc: Group T ABC's Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Lucas This thread seems to be about quality. I would say that there is sufficient evidence out there to show that new German cars (BMW and Mercedes) do not have great reliability. Never owned a Rolls, but the low production volume mitigated against the factory ever getting everything right. If quality means assembly fit and finish, plus reliability, the Japanese seem tough to beat. However, I happen to love the quirks and foibles of my old MG, and find my Acura to be completely characterless. -Rick Waters ----- Original Message ---- From: Sally Carroll jim.n.sally.carroll@worldnet.att.net> To: barcc@eastlink.ca Cc: Group T ABC's mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 12:40:02 PM Subject: [mg-tabc] Lucas Hey guys get off that particular band wagon. . . Lucas is/was Bad! Lucas had the capability to make much better products. . but MG wouldn't pay the required price. GM has/had the same credo "Don't tell me how to make it better, tell me how to make it cheaper" Only Rolls Royce, to my knowledge required the BEST QUALITY of every part in order to make a vehicle dependable and lasting, regardless of cost. And most owners of those had a full time mechanic/chauffeur to attend to them. They actually had to be trained at the Rolls factory to be allowed employment and responsibility for those very nice luxury cars. Can you imagine Mr. Ferrari requiring any prospective owner to attend a school before being allowed to spend his money on a Dino? These days we have knockoffs of cheap goods. . cheaper still. And yes it's a painful fact of life that the current rotors in particular are not good reproductions. .. I too have had numerous problems with them. And with the carbon posts in Dizzy caps as well. Sally Carroll ---------- My scanner says No virus has been found in this outgoing message. I try to update frequently. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.4/363 - Release Date: 6/13/2006 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Robert F.Butson.]

Despite what has been said Lucas electrics are still sought, so here are some sources (UK) Classic Car Spares (Electrical). Richard Bryant 01200828171. www.classic-spares-electrical.com ---- bam40sos@aol.com Stafford Vehicle Components Limited. 0182767714. www.s-v-c.co.uk --- info@s-v-c.co.uk T & J Enterprises 01217773386. PO Box 1963, Hall Green, Birmingham, B28 9LP. No web or email known. Happy hunting......Bob.

[John]

It has really been fun raggin' on Lucas products. I have enjoyed the roast as much as any of you. However... I have been driving Lucas "powered" machines for 50 years and have never had any serious problems. Sorry gang, the king of darkness ain't all as bad as it's reputation. Having said that, tomorrow everything will probably shut down....... LOL -- John Taylor