early TC headlamps

[twilson@motionwear.net]

Has anyone seen evidence of any headlamp lenses used in the early TCs other than the flat ones with the ushaped design? I saw a picture of an early TC - looks like a factory picture - with flat, clear lenses like my TC has. Tom Wilson TC0272

[KEN PORTER]

Tom: I may be wrong but I understand that some of the early 1945 cars were build with Morris type headlight buckets and lenses. At that time whatever could be found in the parts bin was fair game. Maybe someone has more positive knowledge on this. Ken TC 4147 twilson@motionwear.net wrote:

> Has anyone seen evidence of any headlamp lenses used in the early TCs other > than the flat ones with the ushaped design? > I saw a picture of an early TC - looks like a factory picture - with flat, > clear lenses like my TC has. > > Tom Wilson > TC0272 > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Crystal Brenner]

Tom, There is much controversey over this but on the TB the lenses were originally a flat frosted type without the U shape. Some very early TC brochures actually show a picture of a TB and call it a TC as in the TB brochures a TA is shown with the U shaped lense. All this just adds to the confusion. The pictures of the TC prototype which had been a TB do show the U shaped flat lenses and the rims are also different than the earlier TB type. As time travel is not an option....who knows ? Cheers, John and Crystal J.G. Bulcken IV TB#0398

----- Original Message ----- From: twilson@motionwear.net> To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 6:28 PM Subject: [mg-tabc] early TC headlamps > Has anyone seen evidence of any headlamp lenses used in the early TCs other > than the flat ones with the ushaped design? > I saw a picture of an early TC - looks like a factory picture - with flat, > clear lenses like my TC has. > > Tom Wilson > TC0272 > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

[Wiedemeyer]

Tom, If you're referring to TC 0272 that you got from G. Wheatley, those are repros. Bob

>Has anyone seen evidence of any headlamp lenses used in the early TCs other >than the flat ones with the ushaped design? >I saw a picture of an early TC - looks like a factory picture - with flat, >clear lenses like my TC has. > >Tom Wilson >TC0272 > >

[Robert Johnson]

Tom: Regarding your enquiry about early TC lenses: The headlight shells fitted to my '46 TC 1450 (out the factory door Sept. 24, 1946) are marked MB 140 and have the 8" deeply domed fluted horsehoe (U-shaped pattern) lenses. The deep curvature is the same as the "cat's eyes" lenses fitted later (at TC 1850 according to Terry Sanders' list). The rims appear to have the correct curvature providing a smooth transition - different from the rims for the flat lenses. Upon cleanup, identical numbers have been revealed on the back of both lenses as follows: Imagine that you are the bulb looking out forward through the lens. All around the edge of the lens is a flat surface about 3/16" wide (facing back at you in other words). This band has raised numbering cast into the glass which can be read quite clearly. * At the 12:00 position is the lettering LUCAS. * At the 8:00 position are two raised dots, a slash, and another single dot. * At the 7:00 position is the abbreviation for the word "number" in the form of a capital N followed by a superscript small o, just like a degree symbol. * This is followed by the letters XD * There is a space and then the number 714-3 * Then comes the bottom notch in the glass. * In the 5:00 position is the letter Y set in a circle. * In the 4:00 position is the number, period, letter, and another period 505461.C. * There is another space followed by the letter and number M1 The lenses have acquired a very pale amethyst tint. I assume this indicates a fairly high percentage Lead content combined with a lot of sun exposure as I have seen antique crystal with known high Lead content found in the Nevada desert tha had developed this pale lilac hue. Attached is a snapshot I took just prior to their removal for renovation (which I should have completed in about another week). Bob Johnson Crescent City California

[Robert Johnson]

Tom: Here is another snapshot of my headlights on TC1450 I forgot I had taken just prior to removal. Bob Johnson

[Gates Family]

Having recently acquired several boxes of spare (mainly TC) bits and pieces that included both cat's eye and "U" lenses, a comparison with Bob's graphic description reveals differences as follows: The "U" shaped lens has - LUCAS at 12h00 - the N superscript o followed by XD 714-3 at 11h00 - 50/5461 (no C) at 01h00 - M2 just below 03h00 - a slightly (though not to a marked degree) flatter curvature to the cat's eye - the same pale amethyst-like hue The cat's eye has - No LUCAS except in the middle of the lens - 48/3 at 02h00 (not three raised dots separated 2:1) - Y (in a circle) 507586 at 0500 - N superscript o followed by XD 714B at 0700 - M1 at 11h00 Mike Sherrel - p57 - has two clear photographs of the different lenses that shows the "U" lens to be distinctly flatter than the other two, with each of the three having differently shaped rims. Several conclusions can probably be drawn - a) whatever was available at the time was used during manufacture, or b) cars were built/rebuilt with parts borrowed from other makes and models, or c) LUCAS employed a glassmaker with graduating myopia and was therefore in the initial stages of designing a proto-type contact lense for the short-sighted. I go with the third alternative! Joe Gates TC 8675

[Wiedemeyer]

Bob, 1. The "U"-shaped lenses in your photo are repros. They were available from Moss at least 25 years ago, but I'm not sure if you can still get them. The original "U"-shaped lenses were flatter, as in Sherrell's book. 2. I would like to respectfully request that anyone who feels he just has to send pictures to everyone on the List post them on a website and don't send them via e-mail! Some of us still have older computers that bog down when pictures are e-mailed, which is very frustrating, to say the least! On the other MG-T List, pictures are prevented from being sent by the webmaster for just that reason. TIA, Bob

>Tom: > >Regarding your enquiry about early TC lenses: > >The headlight shells fitted to my '46 TC 1450 (out the factory door Sept. >24, 1946) are marked MB 140 and have the 8" deeply domed fluted horsehoe >(U-shaped pattern) lenses. The deep curvature is the same as the "cat's >eyes" lenses fitted later (at TC 1850 according to Terry Sanders' list >Attached is a snapshot I took just prior to their removal for renovation >(which I should have completed in about another week). > >Bob Johnson >Crescent City >California > >

[Wiedemeyer]

Having owned TC 0254 until recently, I can vouch for the fact that it had the correct TC buckets, rims, and flatter "U"-shaped lenses that were correct for the earliest TCs. (I suspect that the "they-used-whatever-they-had-in-the-bins" theory was started by those who couldn't find the correct original parts for their particular cars.) Bob

>Tom: >I may be wrong but I understand that some of the early 1945 cars were build >with Morris type headlight buckets and lenses. At that time whatever could

be

>found in the parts bin was fair game. Maybe someone has more positive

knowledge

>on this. >Ken TC 4147 >