sub-standard workmanship

[Walter Prechsl privat]

hi dave and members, we should discuss that (see below) online. if there are "black sheeps" i will remove them! the names at the suppliers list came as a littel part from my own experience and the rest of you members TABC listers please help to clear that??? walter ----------------------------------------------------------- david lodge wrote: I'm trying to find a letter I wrote some years ago to "MG Enthusiast " magazine about sub-standard workmanship and faulty parts, but I was intrigued to find some of these same people in your parts suppliers list. Regards, David Lodge ----------------------------------------------- Walter, I'm game! Who shall we start with? Regards, David

[Paul Huck]

Lets think about this. Here in the US, the 2 principle suppliers are Abingdon and Moss. I read notes from several people on list about either/both having incorrect selected parts or poor quality. Most of what I have gotten from these two has been fine, or fixable. (gas tank with ripples, the body shop had to fix). All businesses have mistakes, and most of our suppliers are not manufacturers, they are distributors. My expertise is in material management, purchasing etc. (I am currently looking for work if any one needs a good Purchasing/Materials Manager). Distributors do not make their products , but contract for a batch of reproductions or find NOS. Use parts are out there also. Unscrupulous business practices are not the same as an occasional faulty part. Majority of bad parts is not the same as an occasional bad part. Before we eliminate sources, consider that some times once source works, other times another. I bought a heater control switch for my midget from a Spanish name place in TX, used. It was not available anywhere else. It was expensive, but it worked. Glad to get it. There are many sources, some large, some small, some specialized. Skip on this list is a good source, but not as large as Moss or Abingdon. As a resource purchasing manager, parts are sometimes where you find them. You take what you can get. Other times, we have room to be selective. I would like to raise a legal issue,if we have any attorney in the group: If we exchange 'bad experiences' on a group line, is that slander, restraint of trade etc ? It is thing to share an opinion off line directly with each other, another to broadcast to a general list an opinion that may be biased ,and prevent a good business from functioning. Just a few thoughts on our supplier list and purging or spreading opinions of them. Paul Huck

----- Original Message ----- From: Walter Prechsl privat walter@publi-consult.com> To: tabc-list mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 3:36 PM Subject: [mg-tabc] sub-standard workmanship > hi dave and members, > > we should discuss that (see below) online. if there are "black sheeps" i > will remove them! > the names at the suppliers list came as a littel part from my own experience > and the rest of you members > > TABC listers please help to clear that??? > walter > ----------------------------------------------------------- > david lodge wrote: > > I'm trying to find a letter I wrote some years ago to "MG Enthusiast " > magazine about sub-standard workmanship and faulty parts, but I was > intrigued to find some of these same people in your parts suppliers > list. > Regards, David Lodge > ----------------------------------------------- > Walter, > I'm game! Who shall we start with? > Regards, David > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

[Ken Enborg]

I am sure other lawyers may chose to wade in, but in my legal opinion it is perfectly acceptable for members to exchange their experiences and opinions, both good and bad, about merchants, repair shops, parts suppliers and the like. I believe that it is one of the valuable functions of the list. If members are truthful and honest they do not have to worry about slander or commercial disparagement claims. If certain merchants or repair shops lose business because of shoddy practices or poor quality parts as a result it is not illegal restraint of trade. One could say it is restraint of "illegal trade". At the same time it is incumbent on all of us to filter such opinions with our own experiences, so that merchants and repair facilities get a fair shake. People have different base lines as to what is or is not acceptable. Some will trade high quality for low price. At the end of the day we should all feel free to engage in open and honest dialog. Ken Enborg '37 MGTA '58 XK150 '77 JD

----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Huck" paulhuck@bellsouth.net> To: "tabc-list" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>; "Walter Prechsl privat" walter@publi-consult.com> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] sub-standard workmanship > Lets think about this. Here in the US, the 2 principle suppliers are > Abingdon and Moss. I read notes from several people on list about > either/both having incorrect selected parts or poor quality. Most of what I > have gotten from these two has been fine, or fixable. (gas tank with > ripples, the body shop had to fix). All businesses have mistakes, and most > of our suppliers are not manufacturers, they are distributors. My expertise > is in material management, purchasing etc. (I am currently looking for work > if any one needs a good Purchasing/Materials Manager). Distributors do not > make their products , but contract for a batch of reproductions or find NOS. > Use parts are out there also. Unscrupulous business practices are not the > same as an occasional faulty part. Majority of bad parts is not the same as > an occasional bad part. Before we eliminate sources, consider that some > times once source works, other times another. I bought a heater control > switch for my midget from a Spanish name place in TX, used. It was not > available anywhere else. It was expensive, but it worked. Glad to get it. > There are many sources, some large, some small, some specialized. Skip on > this list is a good source, but not as large as Moss or Abingdon. As a > resource purchasing manager, parts are sometimes where you find them. You > take what you can get. Other times, we have room to be selective. > I would like to raise a legal issue,if we have any attorney in the group: If > we exchange 'bad experiences' on a group line, is that slander, restraint of > trade etc ? It is thing to share an opinion off line directly with each > other, another to broadcast to a general list an opinion that may be biased > ,and prevent a good business from functioning. > Just a few thoughts on our supplier list and purging or spreading opinions > of them. > > Paul Huck > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Walter Prechsl privat walter@publi-consult.com> > To: tabc-list mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 3:36 PM > Subject: [mg-tabc] sub-standard workmanship > > > > hi dave and members, > > > > we should discuss that (see below) online. if there are "black sheeps" i > > will remove them! > > the names at the suppliers list came as a littel part from my own > experience > > and the rest of you members > > > > TABC listers please help to clear that??? > > walter > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > david lodge wrote: > > > > I'm trying to find a letter I wrote some years ago to "MG Enthusiast " > > magazine about sub-standard workmanship and faulty parts, but I was > > intrigued to find some of these same people in your parts suppliers > > list. > > Regards, David Lodge > > ----------------------------------------------- > > Walter, > > I'm game! Who shall we start with? > > Regards, David > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

[Ray McCrary]

If airing an honest opinion is now restrained by lawyering, we are in VERY DEEP TROUBLE AS A NATION AND SOCIETY. In a supply and demand society, manufacturers and distributors are not "doing us a favor" by selling parts that we demand. They are doing business. If they sell parts that are not suitable, or they misrepresent the parts, we have a responsibility to let others know. This way, the supplier either fixes the problem or is driven from business. This is one of the ways by which a "supply" (manufacturer or distributor) and "demand" (us) society polices itself. Jeez! Ray McCrary "Speed is Life; of course Luck and Altitude are helpful, too."

----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Huck" paulhuck@bellsouth.net> To: "tabc-list" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>; "Walter Prechsl privat" walter@publi-consult.com> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 4:29 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] sub-standard workmanship Glad to get it. > There are many sources, some large, some small, some specialized. Skip on > this list is a good source, but not as large as Moss or Abingdon. As a > resource purchasing manager, parts are sometimes where you find them. You > take what you can get. Other times, we have room to be selective. > I would like to raise a legal issue,if we have any attorney in the group: If > we exchange 'bad experiences' on a group line, is that slander, restraint of > trade etc ? It is thing to share an opinion off line directly with each > other, another to broadcast to a general list an opinion that may be biased > ,and prevent a good business from functioning. > Just a few thoughts on our supplier list and purging or spreading opinions > of them.

[wwcordin]

Could not agree more. Society has changed substantially over the past several years/decades. I think all of us in the "older" generations can remember a time when the first thought was not can we either sue or be sued. I miss the times when everyone assumed responsibility for their own actions. On the supplier side, I have used both Moss and Abingdon depending upon who has what. With very few exceptions, I have always received what I asked for in the condition that I expected it to be in. I also have used British Wire Wheel with excellent results. (Badger, they are the ones that do the chrome wire wheels). My parts buying days go back to the early sixties with S.H. Arnolt in Chicago, Illinois. I have memories, some even fond, of buying parts there for a 1954 TF, my very first car. WWC TC # 6749

----- Original Message ----- From: Ray McCrary spook01@home.com> To: tabc-list mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>; Walter Prechsl privat walter@publi-consult.com>; Paul Huck paulhuck@bellsouth.net> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] sub-standard workmanship > If airing an honest opinion is now restrained by lawyering, we are in VERY > DEEP TROUBLE AS A NATION AND SOCIETY. > In a supply and demand society, manufacturers and distributors are not > "doing us a favor" by selling parts that we demand. They are doing > business. > If they sell parts that are not suitable, or they misrepresent the parts, we > have a responsibility to let others know. This way, the supplier either > fixes the problem or is driven from business. > This is one of the ways by which a "supply" (manufacturer or distributor) > and "demand" (us) society polices itself. > Jeez! > Ray McCrary > "Speed is Life; > of course Luck and Altitude > are helpful, too." > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Huck" paulhuck@bellsouth.net> > To: "tabc-list" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>; "Walter Prechsl privat" > walter@publi-consult.com> > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 4:29 PM > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] sub-standard workmanship > > > Glad to get it. > > There are many sources, some large, some small, some specialized. Skip on > > this list is a good source, but not as large as Moss or Abingdon. As a > > resource purchasing manager, parts are sometimes where you find them. You > > take what you can get. Other times, we have room to be selective. > > I would like to raise a legal issue,if we have any attorney in the group: > If > > we exchange 'bad experiences' on a group line, is that slander, restraint > of > > trade etc ? It is thing to share an opinion off line directly with each > > other, another to broadcast to a general list an opinion that may be > biased > > ,and prevent a good business from functioning. > > Just a few thoughts on our supplier list and purging or spreading opinions > > of them. > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

[Crystal Brenner]

----- Original Message ----- From: "Crystal Brenner" cbrenner01@snet.net> To: "Ray McCrary" spook01@home.com> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 10:59 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] sub-standard workmanship > Ray, > In our humble opinion, " WE ARE IN VERY DEEP TROUBLE AS A NATION AND > SOCIETY ". We could also not agree with you more about the rest of what you > have said ! > Kind regards, > John and Crystal > J.G. Bulcken IV TB#0398 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ray McCrary" spook01@home.com> > To: "tabc-list" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>; "Walter Prechsl privat" > walter@publi-consult.com>; "Paul Huck" paulhuck@bellsouth.net> > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 9:07 PM > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] sub-standard workmanship > > > > If airing an honest opinion is now restrained by lawyering, we are in VERY > > DEEP TROUBLE AS A NATION AND SOCIETY. > > In a supply and demand society, manufacturers and distributors are not > > "doing us a favor" by selling parts that we demand. They are doing > > business. > > If they sell parts that are not suitable, or they misrepresent the parts, > we > > have a responsibility to let others know. This way, the supplier either > > fixes the problem or is driven from business. > > This is one of the ways by which a "supply" (manufacturer or distributor) > > and "demand" (us) society polices itself. > > Jeez! > > Ray McCrary > > "Speed is Life; > > of course Luck and Altitude > > are helpful, too." > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Paul Huck" paulhuck@bellsouth.net> > > To: "tabc-list" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>; "Walter Prechsl privat" > > walter@publi-consult.com> > > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 4:29 PM > > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] sub-standard workmanship > > > > > > Glad to get it. > > > There are many sources, some large, some small, some specialized. Skip > on > > > this list is a good source, but not as large as Moss or Abingdon. As a > > > resource purchasing manager, parts are sometimes where you find them. > You > > > take what you can get. Other times, we have room to be selective. > > > I would like to raise a legal issue,if we have any attorney in the > group: > > If > > > we exchange 'bad experiences' on a group line, is that slander, > restraint > > of > > > trade etc ? It is thing to share an opinion off line directly with each > > > other, another to broadcast to a general list an opinion that may be > > biased > > > ,and prevent a good business from functioning. > > > Just a few thoughts on our supplier list and purging or spreading > opinions > > > of them. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > >

[Crystal Brenner]

Well said Ken...thats what a list like this should be for...we are all in this together ! Kind regards, John and Crystal J.G. Bulcken IV TB#0398

----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Enborg" kenborg@mediaone.net> To: "tabc-list" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 8:38 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] sub-standard workmanship > I am sure other lawyers may chose to wade in, but in my legal opinion it is > perfectly acceptable for members to exchange their experiences and opinions, > both good and bad, about merchants, repair shops, parts suppliers and the > like. I believe that it is one of the valuable functions of the list. If > members are truthful and honest they do not have to worry about slander or > commercial disparagement claims. If certain merchants or repair shops lose > business because of shoddy practices or poor quality parts as a result it is > not illegal restraint of trade. One could say it is restraint of "illegal > trade". At the same time it is incumbent on all of us to filter such > opinions with our own experiences, so that merchants and repair facilities > get a fair shake. People have different base lines as to what is or is not > acceptable. Some will trade high quality for low price. > At the end of the day we should all feel free to engage in open and honest > dialog. > Ken Enborg > '37 MGTA > '58 XK150 > '77 JD > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Huck" paulhuck@bellsouth.net> > To: "tabc-list" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>; "Walter Prechsl privat" > walter@publi-consult.com> > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 5:29 PM > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] sub-standard workmanship > > > > Lets think about this. Here in the US, the 2 principle suppliers are > > Abingdon and Moss. I read notes from several people on list about > > either/both having incorrect selected parts or poor quality. Most of what > I > > have gotten from these two has been fine, or fixable. (gas tank with > > ripples, the body shop had to fix). All businesses have mistakes, and most > > of our suppliers are not manufacturers, they are distributors. My > expertise > > is in material management, purchasing etc. (I am currently looking for > work > > if any one needs a good Purchasing/Materials Manager). Distributors do > not > > make their products , but contract for a batch of reproductions or find > NOS. > > Use parts are out there also. Unscrupulous business practices are not the > > same as an occasional faulty part. Majority of bad parts is not the same > as > > an occasional bad part. Before we eliminate sources, consider that some > > times once source works, other times another. I bought a heater control > > switch for my midget from a Spanish name place in TX, used. It was not > > available anywhere else. It was expensive, but it worked. Glad to get it. > > There are many sources, some large, some small, some specialized. Skip on > > this list is a good source, but not as large as Moss or Abingdon. As a > > resource purchasing manager, parts are sometimes where you find them. You > > take what you can get. Other times, we have room to be selective. > > I would like to raise a legal issue,if we have any attorney in the group: > If > > we exchange 'bad experiences' on a group line, is that slander, restraint > of > > trade etc ? It is thing to share an opinion off line directly with each > > other, another to broadcast to a general list an opinion that may be > biased > > ,and prevent a good business from functioning. > > Just a few thoughts on our supplier list and purging or spreading opinions > > of them. > > > > Paul Huck > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Walter Prechsl privat walter@publi-consult.com> > > To: tabc-list mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 3:36 PM > > Subject: [mg-tabc] sub-standard workmanship > > > > > > > hi dave and members, > > > > > > we should discuss that (see below) online. if there are "black sheeps" i > > > will remove them! > > > the names at the suppliers list came as a littel part from my own > > experience > > > and the rest of you members > > > > > > TABC listers please help to clear that??? > > > walter > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > > david lodge wrote: > > > > > > I'm trying to find a letter I wrote some years ago to "MG Enthusiast " > > > magazine about sub-standard workmanship and faulty parts, but I was > > > intrigued to find some of these same people in your parts suppliers > > > list. > > > Regards, David Lodge > > > ----------------------------------------------- > > > Walter, > > > I'm game! Who shall we start with? > > > Regards, David > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

[Frank O_ The Mountain]

In a message dated 6/22/01 6:11:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, spook01@home.com writes: > We have a responsibility to let the supplier know we are not satisfied or that the part failed....after that, we can bitch about the results or action taken. I think some are too quick to jump on the internet and complain with out informing the supplier. Most of us know who the bad boys are in this hobby. If you don't, a few private emails will put that right. Terry