XPAG bits and pieces

[Charles_Shiplee@batesuk.com]

I've just started my TC after 4 years of restoration and a couple of points come up that I would be interested in advice from those with similar. 1 The engine was rebuilt from the ground up including new water pump and thermostat. After about 5 mins of running the Radiator header tank is hot to touch as is the top hose leading into the tank from underneath. the engine itself is also hot to touch. However the core of the radiator and the bottom hose and the hoses on the branch pipe are stone cold. I turned of the engine as I did not want to cause a problem. I then flushed out the radiator and took off all the hoses except the large one leading to the bottom of the header tank ( to do this one I need to remove the radiator ). There was a lot of gunk in the system. Probably from the anti freeze that has been in the system for the past 18 months. With the hose off, water flows from all the parts it should. How do I know if the thermostat is stuck? Is it just a matter of waiting until the engine gets hotter? Assuming that the water is not flowing as it should what are the signs I should look for before it overheats? 2. I have not done any thing to the carbs. The engine fires pretty much first time and idles without too much trouble. However the exhaust smells quite " petrolley". There is a black damp residue left on the ground behind the exhaust pipe. Also as it was getting quite dark I could see the occasional spark ( cinder ) coming from the exhaust pipe as I revved up the engine. Is this normal for an engine that it not yet run in? Do I need to retune the carbs? 3. Finally. I cant seem to get the exhaust coupling at the bottom of the manifold to seat properly. I have tried new studs, gaskets etc. but as tight as I can get the nuts there is still a leak of exhaust forward from the joint. Any thoughts appreciated. Charles Shiplee IMPORTANT NOTICE: This message is intended for the use of the person(s) or organisation (the Intended Recipient) to whom it is addressed. It may contain information which is privileged and confidential within the meaning of applicable law. Accordingly dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this message or any of its contents by any person other than the Intended Recipient may constitute a breach of civil or criminal law and is strictly prohibited. If you are not the Intended Recipient please contact the sender as soon as possible. All information or opinions expressed in this message and/or any attachments are those of the author and are not necessarily those of The Group. All reasonable precautions have been taken to ensure no viruses are present in this E-mail. As The Group accepts no responsibility for loss or damage arising from the use of this E-mail or attachments we recommend that you subject these to your virus checking procedures prior to use.

[joecurto@aol.com]

Charles sounds like you have a cloged radiator, but also when you did this restoration was it only cosmetic? perhaps the waterpump has corroded impeller blades (or missing), now is the time to remove the pump, if the thermostat was sticking I would think that the top tank would not get hot, but thermostat wise if it is a non original type or someone has put a Chevy one below the housing and the elbow this would cause some interesting overheating, As for the carbs have you checked choke linkage a car that has sat for that long would have sticky jet tubes etc. Remember that anything that was wrong and not attended to when the car was laid up did not get better sitting. Regarding the TC exh leak isn't there a bracket on the head pipe which attaches to the bell housing bolt and this pulls that wacky assembly tight into the flange? Joe Curto www.joecurtoinc.com

[JTPAKI@aol.com]

Charles, I would think that if the upper tank was hot that water was flowing to the radiator through the thermostat. However, if you already have the upper hose off, then pull the housing that contains the thermostat and place it one of your wife's best sauce pans. Heat it in water on the range and see if the thermostat opens at the correct temperature. Also use one of her best meat thermometers to see the water temp in the pan. Sounds as though you are running fat (rich) on the mixture. If you were running only 5 minutes, did you have the choke on that whole time? If not it could be the carbs need to be adjusted. As to the sparks from the exhaust pipe, the only thing I could think of was debris inside the new exhaust system. Joe Potter Eugene, Oregon USA http://hometown.aol.com/jtpaki/index.html In a message dated 1/8/01 2:16:44 AM Pacific Standard Time, Charles_Shiplee@batesuk.com writes:

I've just started my TC after 4 years of restoration and a couple of points come up that I would be interested in advice from those with similar. 1 The engine was rebuilt from the ground up including new water pump and thermostat. After about 5 mins of running the Radiator header tank is hot to touch as is the top hose leading into the tank from underneath. the engine itself is also hot to touch. However the core of the radiator and the bottom hose and the hoses on the branch pipe are stone cold. I turned of the engine as I did not want to cause a problem. I then flushed out the radiator and took off all the hoses except the large one leading to the bottom of the header tank ( to do this one I need to remove the radiator ). There was a lot of gunk in the system. Probably from the anti freeze that has been in the system for the past 18 months. With the hose off, water flows from all the parts it should. How do I know if the thermostat is stuck? Is it just a matter of waiting until the engine gets hotter? Assuming that the water is not flowing as it should what are the signs I should look for before it overheats? 2. I have not done any thing to the carbs. The engine fires pretty much first time and idles without too much trouble. However the exhaust smells quite " petrolley". There is a black damp residue left on the ground behind the exhaust pipe. Also as it was getting quite dark I could see the occasional spark ( cinder ) coming from the exhaust pipe as I revved up the engine. Is this normal for an engine that it not yet run in? Do I need to retune the carbs? 3. Finally. I cant seem to get the exhaust coupling at the bottom of the manifold to seat properly. I have tried new studs, gaskets etc. but as tight as I can get the nuts there is still a leak of exhaust forward from the joint. Any thoughts appreciated. Charles Shiplee

[Malcolm Castle]

Charles I had a simular problem a few years ago and found after checking evrything out, the problem was the verticle tubes in the radiator core were clogged. I re-cored with a regular automotive core, and have had great cooling since. good luck regards Malcolm Castle TC -TC

>From: Charles_Shiplee@batesuk.com >To: mg-tabc@egroups.com >Subject: [mg-tabc] XPAG bits and pieces >Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 09:25:12 +0000 > > >I've just started my TC after 4 years of restoration and a couple of points >come up that I would be interested in advice from those with similar. > >1 The engine was rebuilt from the ground up including new water pump and >thermostat. >After about 5 mins of running the Radiator header tank is hot to touch as >is the top hose leading into the tank from underneath. >the engine itself is also hot to touch. However the core of the radiator >and the bottom hose and the hoses on the branch pipe are stone cold. >I turned of the engine as I did not want to cause a problem. I then flushed >out the radiator and took off all the hoses except the large one leading to >the bottom of the header tank ( to do this one I need to remove the >radiator ). There was a lot of gunk in the system. Probably from the anti >freeze that has been in the system for the past 18 months. With the hose >off, water flows from all the parts it should. How do I know if the >thermostat is stuck? >Is it just a matter of waiting until the engine gets hotter? Assuming that >the water is not flowing as it should what are the signs I should look for >before it overheats? > >2. I have not done any thing to the carbs. The engine fires pretty much >first time and idles without too much trouble. However the exhaust smells >quite " petrolley". >There is a black damp residue left on the ground behind the exhaust pipe. >Also as it was getting quite dark I could see the occasional spark ( >cinder ) coming from the exhaust pipe as I revved up the engine. Is this >normal for an engine that it not yet run in? Do I need to retune the carbs? > >3. Finally. I cant seem to get the exhaust coupling at the bottom of the >manifold to seat properly. I have tried new studs, gaskets etc. but as >tight as I can get the nuts there is still a leak of exhaust forward from >the joint. > > >Any thoughts appreciated. > >Charles Shiplee > > >IMPORTANT NOTICE: >This message is intended for the use of the person(s) or organisation (the >Intended Recipient) to whom it is addressed. It may contain information >which is privileged and confidential within the meaning of applicable law. >Accordingly dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this >message or any of its contents by any person other than the Intended >Recipient may constitute a breach of civil or criminal law and is strictly >prohibited. If you are not the Intended Recipient please contact the sender >as soon as possible. All information or opinions expressed in this message >and/or any attachments are those of the author and are not necessarily >those of The Group. All reasonable precautions have been taken to ensure no >viruses are present in this E-mail. As The Group accepts no responsibility >for loss or damage arising from the use of this E-mail or attachments we >recommend that you subject these to your virus checking procedures prior to >use. > > > > >

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[Dean Jensen]

As to the exh leak, try getting some muffler patch, comes in a tube, like gasket sealer, put it on the two surfaces before you bolt it up, works great, just like pipe dope on pipe threads. Dean Illinois -----Original Message----- From: joecurto@aol.com joecurto@aol.com> To: Charles_Shiplee@batesuk.com Charles_Shiplee@batesuk.com>; mg-tabc@egroups.com mg-tabc@egroups.com> Date: Monday, January 08, 2001 9:46 AM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] XPAG bits and pieces

>Charles sounds like you have a cloged radiator, but also when you did this >restoration was it only cosmetic? perhaps the waterpump has corroded

impeller

>blades (or missing), now is the time to remove the pump, if the thermostat >was sticking I would think that the top tank would not get hot, but >thermostat wise if it is a non original type or someone has put a Chevy one >below the housing and the elbow this would cause some interesting >overheating, > >As for the carbs have you checked choke linkage a car that has sat for that >long would have sticky jet tubes etc. Remember that anything that was wrong >and not attended to when the car was laid up did not get better sitting. > >Regarding the TC exh leak isn't there a bracket on the head pipe which >attaches to the bell housing bolt and this pulls that wacky assembly tight >into the flange? > > >Joe Curto > >www.joecurtoinc.com > > >

[Dave Norris]

> 3. Finally. I cant seem to get the exhaust coupling at the bottom of the > manifold to seat properly. I have tried new studs, gaskets etc. but as > tight as I can get the nuts there is still a leak of exhaust forward from > the joint.

Charles, A common cause of this is incorrect order of assembly. The correct sequence is manifold/gasket/exhaust cup/front pipe. I used some exhaust cement at the bottom of the cup where it sits in the flared end of the front pipe. Other than that it was a question of ensuring the top & bottom flanges are pulled together straight when you tighten the nuts. Cheers, Dave Aberdeen TC9964

[Bob Grunau]

The design of the TC exhaust joint at the manifold is "nuts", IMHO. The flat gasket has a very hard time sealing against the sharp edge of the exhaust cup and pipe. The gasket works fine on a TD/TF where the pipe is welded to the flange and a large flat area contacts the gasket.. I have had good success by fitting a modern donut gasket between the flared pipe and manifold ( forget about the TC exhaust loose cup ). The donut ID is the same as the manifold ID and the lower edge sits in the bell or flare of the exhaust pipe. Now when you tighten the three manifold nuts under the loose flange the donut is seated between the flat manifold and pipe bell. No problem with alignment or getting a good seal. Do not over tighten the nuts, This system has worked well for me. Bob

> 3. Finally. I cant seem to get the exhaust coupling at the bottom of the > manifold to seat properly. I have tried new studs, gaskets etc. but as > tight as I can get the nuts there is still a leak of exhaust forward from > the joint.

Charles, A common cause of this is incorrect order of assembly. The correct sequence is manifold/gasket/exhaust cup/front pipe. I used some exhaust cement at the bottom of the cup where it sits in the flared end of the front pipe. Other than that it was a question of ensuring the top & bottom flanges are pulled together straight when you tighten the nuts. Cheers, Dave Aberdeen TC9964

[Chip Old]

Hi Bob, The TB/TC manifold/header pipe joint was never meant to use a flat gasket, although that's what you get from some suppliers who don't know that the TB/TC joint isn't the same as the TD/TD joint. You're right, a flat TD/TF style gasket is absolutely worthless on a TC. The original setup is very similar to what you described, with the addition of that loose cup that you discard. I don't know if the original conical gasket is still readily available, but a modern "donut" gasket is a perfectly good substitute and is available at any decent auto supply store or muffler shop.

On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Bob Grunau wrote: > The design of the TC exhaust joint at the manifold is "nuts", IMHO. > The flat gasket has a very hard time sealing against the sharp edge of > the exhaust cup and pipe. The gasket works fine on a TD/TF where the > pipe is welded to the flange and a large flat area contacts the > gasket.. I have had good success by fitting a modern donut gasket > between the flared pipe and manifold ( forget about the TC exhaust > loose cup ). The donut ID is the same as the manifold ID and the lower > edge sits in the bell or flare of the exhaust pipe. Now when you > tighten the three manifold nuts under the loose flange the donut is > seated between the flat manifold and pipe bell. No problem with > alignment or getting a good seal. Do not over tighten the nuts, This > system has worked well for me. -- Chip Old 1948 M.G. TC TC6710 XPAG7430 NEMGTR #2271 Cub Hill, Maryland 1962 Triumph TR4 CT3154LO CT3479E fold@bcpl.net

[Dwyer]

Charles It sounds like you only ran the engine at idle for 5 minutes or so: if so it would still be spitting black sooty moisture condensing in the exhaust. That's the dark damp residue. You can't tell anything from the exhaust until the engine is really hot (after at least 10-15 mins ##driving##). Don't worry about the carbs till then. Re the exhaust leak. There should be a conical adapter that sits into the top end of the downpipe. There's a flange on the top of this which presses up against the gasket on the bottom end of the manifold. If this conical bit is missing, an original type downpipe doesn't seal very well 'cos all there is to seal to is the edge of the pipe. Of course if you had the downpipe made with a welded-on flange that would seal to the gasket and the adapter wouldn't be needed. Maybe the factory used the adapter to give a degree of self alignment as the pipe was assembled. I ##think## I have a sample of the adapter if you need a sketch. Regards Dave Dwyer J2, TA, TC -----Original Message----- From: Charles_Shiplee@batesuk.com Charles_Shiplee@batesuk.com> To: mg-tabc@egroups.com mg-tabc@egroups.com> Date: Monday, 8 January 2001 8:24 Subject: [mg-tabc] XPAG bits and pieces

> >I've just started my TC after 4 years of restoration and a couple of points >come up that I would be interested in advice from those with similar. > >1 The engine was rebuilt from the ground up including new water pump and >thermostat. >After about 5 mins of running the Radiator header tank is hot to touch as >is the top hose leading into the tank from underneath. >the engine itself is also hot to touch. However the core of the radiator >and the bottom hose and the hoses on the branch pipe are stone cold. >I turned of the engine as I did not want to cause a problem. I then flushed >out the radiator and took off all the hoses except the large one leading to >the bottom of the header tank ( to do this one I need to remove the >radiator ). There was a lot of gunk in the system. Probably from the anti >freeze that has been in the system for the past 18 months. With the hose >off, water flows from all the parts it should. How do I know if the >thermostat is stuck? >Is it just a matter of waiting until the engine gets hotter? Assuming that >the water is not flowing as it should what are the signs I should look for >before it overheats? > >2. I have not done any thing to the carbs. The engine fires pretty much >first time and idles without too much trouble. However the exhaust smells >quite " petrolley". >There is a black damp residue left on the ground behind the exhaust pipe. >Also as it was getting quite dark I could see the occasional spark ( >cinder ) coming from the exhaust pipe as I revved up the engine. Is this >normal for an engine that it not yet run in? Do I need to retune the carbs? > >3. Finally. I cant seem to get the exhaust coupling at the bottom of the >manifold to seat properly. I have tried new studs, gaskets etc. but as >tight as I can get the nuts there is still a leak of exhaust forward from >the joint. > > >Any thoughts appreciated. > >Charles Shiplee > > >IMPORTANT NOTICE: >This message is intended for the use of the person(s) or organisation (the >Intended Recipient) to whom it is addressed. It may contain information >which is privileged and confidential within the meaning of applicable law. >Accordingly dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this >message or any of its contents by any person other than the Intended >Recipient may constitute a breach of civil or criminal law and is strictly >prohibited. If you are not the Intended Recipient please contact the sender >as soon as possible. All information or opinions expressed in this message >and/or any attachments are those of the author and are not necessarily >those of The Group. All reasonable precautions have been taken to ensure no >viruses are present in this E-mail. As The Group accepts no responsibility >for loss or damage arising from the use of this E-mail or attachments we >recommend that you subject these to your virus checking procedures prior to >use. > > > > > >