baja ride report

[Norm Keller]

#ygrps-yiv-1594985976 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-1594985976cite {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;} #ygrps-yiv-1594985976 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-1594985976cite2 {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;margin-top:3px;padding-top:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-1594985976 .ygrps-yiv-1594985976plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-1594985976 .ygrps-yiv-1594985976plain tt {font-family:monospace;font-size:100%;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-1594985976 a img {border:0px;}#ygrps-yiv-1594985976 {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;} #ygrps-yiv-1594985976 .ygrps-yiv-1594985976plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-1594985976 .ygrps-yiv-1594985976plain tt {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;} I don't think that any of us has sufficient data to form a conclusion as to where is the primary seizure point and certainly cannot conclude that only one point is seized. If I appeared to assert that there was one point of seizure, I apologize because there is no basis for that from what I read. That was what I was attempting to convey. I considered suggesting which side spacer might most likely be seized but since people often install the axle from the opposite side, that couldn't be concluded either. Something is clamping the axle to the swing arm or it would turn, that's all we know. I think it is reasonable to conclude that the most likely culprit is the spacer and or bearing holding tension onto the axle to the swing arm on the axle bolt head side/   I don't disagree with anything you have said, other than to conclude that the reason for the axle not turning is one spacer or the other as mentioned. IME, it is seldom that only one are is seized. The barn find comment really nailed the whole issue, Martin.   I don't recall having to cut a KLR axle but have had to do quite a few others. An old friend loves to garage sale and poke around back roads. He used to buy old stuff, including Honda ATC/trikes and then bring them by to get them going. He was always "going to keep this one for us at the cabin" so I would go through it and then it would be gone when he found one he liked better.    I can't estimate how many of those I battled the front axle out of. They are fun because the forks offer no reaction/ inertia. I'm not doing that stuff any more as think I've done enough of that for the novelty to wear off.   ------ Original Message ------ From: "Martin Earl" To: "DSN KLR650" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com>; "Norm Keller" Sent: 2015-03-16 4:22:52 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove?  

Hi Norm, As always, there is a good takeaway from anything that Norm suggest. grin. You and I disagree (I think) on where the axle might be seized...and I would defer to your experience. smile. I keep my 'junk' well lubed and the tires changed often enough that this is not a problem...however, a barn find will exacerbate seizures...I suppose. However, after reading your missive 3x, I see that if the axle won't turn, it is (most likely) the 'A' and 'B' parts. extrapolation from your post would suggest, if the axle will turn, it is in the 92143. My own suggestion only considered the 92143-1060 inner collar. I just went out to the garage to eyeball the rear wheel and the possible offending collars; I have included a link to the microfiche, pulled the possible offending parts in the matrix below, full credits to Ron Ayers. http://www.ronayersmotorcycles.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=375633&category=Motorcycles&make=KAWASAKI&year=2001&fveh=8691 92143B

 

COLLAR,REAR AXLE,L=17 #92143-1062

92143

COLLAR,REAR BRAKE DRU #92143-1060

92143A

COLLAR,REAR

#92143-1061

If brute force (the 12# hammer) and awkwardness is insufficient, it appears a sawzall to cut off the axle 2x, a new axle, bearings and 'collars' are in the OP's future.  Your guidance/suggestion on where to cut might be beneficial to all. All this would suggest, some barn finds are better than others. shrug. Over at ADV, a barn find resurrection of a R100RT BMW started at $2000 for the 'find', added $3000 to correct all the things of a 'almost running' bike required, amounted to a balance-sheet re-sale value of $3000. And this was a very capable mechanic who did everything except the head work. and so it goes. m.                                 On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 12:00 PM, 'Norm Keller' normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: I see seized or nearly so on bikes and ATV frequently. If the axle is seized then plan on a bigger time with the rear suspension. As was said earlier, use a good waterproof chassis or wheel bearing grease on the axles and through bolts rather than never seize.   If the axle is seized and won't turn, it's most likely seized to the wheel spacer on the opposite side. In really severe cases, this is pure joy because you can have an axle which is seized to both wheel spacers + both bearings and even the bearing spacer. In really bad cases a cut off wheel or saws-all will be required to cut through the spacers and axle on both sides of the wheel in order to remove from the bike. Be carefull about the force applied in a press as it's possible to break the wheel.   My preference is to place a weight against the other side (block of thin hardwood between swing arm and weight) to increase inertia and use a large punch and 12 pound hammer to start the axle moving. I agree that penetrating oils aren't going to do much until it starts moving and then I prefer ATF, good motor oil or (best) hypoid gear oil. If it doesn't move with the hammer, I have a very heavy duty long stroke Mac Tools air hammer which will usually persuade things. Forget using the little girl's air hammers which most people have for cutting sheet metal.   Some heat on the axle spacers can help because the aluminum expands more than steel but this isn't easy to do without burning the paint off the swing arm. FWIW, I've sometimes found that using an air hammer chisel to split the axle spacer(s) axially can help because that frees the axle of the spacers and allows oil to contact the wheel bearings and axle.

[John Biccum]

Just remembered something relevant: When I serviced the swing arm on my first new-to-me KLR (April 2003) I had a real hard time getting the swing arm bolt out. I used many of the methods we covered in this thread and finally got it out. What I found on the swing arm bolt was corrosion in the center third of the bolt as if the factory installed the bolt with zero grease. My bike was one year old at this time and the PO had run just 2000 miles since new. Then a few years later at a Tech Day I hosted we found a couple more such swing arm bolts rusted into place and they too had the identical pattern of corrosion in the center third of the bolt. One of the tech day bikes was brand new and had gone just a few hundred miles. That made me wonder if the Kawasaki assembly workers were installing bolts that were already corroded. We were servicing the swing arm just 5 months after the bike was produced and yet the bolt was already so corroded it was very difficult to remove. Here is a pic of that bolt: http://johnbiccum.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Bellevue-Tech-Day/i-rjL9XsQ/A> http://johnbiccum.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Bellevue-Tech-Day/i-rjL9XsQ/A I realize that the issue today is an axle bolt not the swing arm bolt. But I wonder if the root cause might be the same: lack of lubrication at time of original assembly. Moral of the story: if you have not serviced your swing arm, do it now when the corrosion only makes the bolt difficult to remove rather than waiting until the corrosion makes the bolt impossible to remove. From: Norm Keller [mailto:normkel32@...] Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 17:32 To: John Biccum; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com; Martin Earl Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove? I think there's great value in knocking these things around and very much appreciate Martin's views. We have a long history of regard and respect (at least on my part) and seem both to enjoy trying to refine assessments. I like discovering that I am wrong or even that I have simply misspoken. After all one must find some justification for 35+ years of marriage. The OP is not a client of mine although I'd be happy to help if it came by. ------ Original Message ------ From: "John Biccum" < johnbiccum@...> To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com; "Martin Earl" < mjearl4@...>; "Norm Keller" < normkel32@...> Sent: 2015-03-16 4:58:16 PM Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove? And as always the herd knows more than any one of us, even Norm! My pitiful contribution? I have the axle and most likely the spacers in my KLR spares collection if you need them Norm. You (or your client) could either buy them for a reasonable price or take them free and resupply me when the parts that you would order arrive. I could probably be persuaded to deliver as long as I could ride there (e.g snow-free roads). From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 16:23 To: DSN KLR650; Norm Keller Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove? Hi Norm, As always, there is a good takeaway from anything that Norm suggest. grin. You and I disagree (I think) on where the axle might be seized...and I would defer to your experience. smile. I keep my 'junk' well lubed and the tires changed often enough that this is not a problem...however, a barn find will exacerbate seizures...I suppose. However, after reading your missive 3x, I see that if the axle won't turn, it is (most likely) the 'A' and 'B' parts. extrapolation from your post would suggest, if the axle will turn, it is in the 92143. My own suggestion only considered the 92143-1060 inner collar. I just went out to the garage to eyeball the rear wheel and the possible offending collars; I have included a link to the microfiche, pulled the possible offending parts in the matrix below, full credits to Ron Ayers. http://www.ronayersmotorcycles.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=375633&category=Motorcycles&make=KAWASAKI&year=2001&fveh=8691> http://www.ronayersmotorcycles.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=375633&category=Motorcycles&make=KAWASAKI&year=2001&fveh=8691 92143B COLLAR,REAR AXLE,L=17 #92143-1062 92143 COLLAR,REAR BRAKE DRU #92143-1060 92143A COLLAR,REAR #92143-1061 If brute force (the 12# hammer) and awkwardness is insufficient, it appears a sawzall to cut off the axle 2x, a new axle, bearings and 'collars' are in the OP's future. Your guidance/suggestion on where to cut might be beneficial to all. All this would suggest, some barn finds are better than others. shrug. Over at ADV, a barn find resurrection of a R100RT BMW started at $2000 for the 'find', added $3000 to correct all the things of a 'almost running' bike required, amounted to a balance-sheet re-sale value of $3000. And this was a very capable mechanic who did everything except the head work. and so it goes. m.

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 12:00 PM, 'Norm Keller' normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650] < DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: I see seized or nearly so on bikes and ATV frequently. If the axle is seized then plan on a bigger time with the rear suspension. As was said earlier, use a good waterproof chassis or wheel bearing grease on the axles and through bolts rather than never seize. If the axle is seized and won't turn, it's most likely seized to the wheel spacer on the opposite side. In really severe cases, this is pure joy because you can have an axle which is seized to both wheel spacers + both bearings and even the bearing spacer. In really bad cases a cut off wheel or saws-all will be required to cut through the spacers and axle on both sides of the wheel in order to remove from the bike. Be carefull about the force applied in a press as it's possible to break the wheel. My preference is to place a weight against the other side (block of thin hardwood between swing arm and weight) to increase inertia and use a large punch and 12 pound hammer to start the axle moving. I agree that penetrating oils aren't going to do much until it starts moving and then I prefer ATF, good motor oil or (best) hypoid gear oil. If it doesn't move with the hammer, I have a very heavy duty long stroke Mac Tools air hammer which will usually persuade things. Forget using the little girl's air hammers which most people have for cutting sheet metal. Some heat on the axle spacers can help because the aluminum expands more than steel but this isn't easy to do without burning the paint off the swing arm. FWIW, I've sometimes found that using an air hammer chisel to split the axle spacer(s) axially can help because that frees the axle of the spacers and allows oil to contact the wheel bearings and axle. ---------- ---------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Norm Keller]

John, that mirrors virtually all the bikes I see. I don't think that we should expect greasing of bolts on an assembly line although spraying with wax or a petroleum film would be ideal, IMO. We're dealing with an inexpensive machine in a market in which even the high end stuff goes together dry. I've also seen almost new bikes with corrosion or the beginnings of that to suspension bolts. There is are several FB threads, as always, on this problem with the suggestion to install grease nipples although this is far beyond most people to accomplish. IMO, any dual sport should have the rear suspension services once per year and more if into deep water. Perhaps others have formed a more accurate assessment of the needed frequency? Haven't had to drill one completely out in some time though to things are looking up. ------ Original Message ------ From: "John Biccum" To: "Norm Keller" ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com; "Martin Earl" Sent: 2015-03-16 6:50:51 PM Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove?

>Just remembered something relevant: > > > >When I serviced the swing arm on my first new-to-me KLR (April 2003) I >had a real hard time getting the swing arm bolt out. I used many of the >methods we covered in this thread and finally got it out. What I found >on the swing arm bolt was corrosion in the center third of the bolt as >if the factory installed the bolt with zero grease. My bike was one >year old at this time and the PO had run just 2000 miles since new. > > > >Then a few years later at a Tech Day I hosted we found a couple more >such swing arm bolts rusted into place and they too had the identical >pattern of corrosion in the center third of the bolt. One of the tech >day bikes was brand new and had gone just a few hundred miles. That >made me wonder if the Kawasaki assembly workers were installing bolts >that were already corroded. We were servicing the swing arm just 5 >months after the bike was produced and yet the bolt was already so >corroded it was very difficult to remove. > > > >Here is a pic of that bolt: >http://johnbiccum.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Bellevue-Tech-Day/i-rjL9XsQ/A > > > >I realize that the issue today is an axle bolt not the swing arm bolt. >But I wonder if the root cause might be the same: lack of lubrication >at time of original assembly. > > > >Moral of the story: if you have not serviced your swing arm, do it now >when the corrosion only makes the bolt difficult to remove rather than >waiting until the corrosion makes the bolt impossible to remove. > > > > > > > >From: Norm Keller [mailto:normkel32@...] >Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 17:32 >To: John Biccum; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com; Martin Earl >Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove? > > > >I think there's great value in knocking these things around and very >much appreciate Martin's views. We have a long history of regard and >respect (at least on my part) and seem both to enjoy trying to refine >assessments. I like discovering that I am wrong or even that I have >simply misspoken. After all one must find some justification for 35+ >years of marriage. > > > >The OP is not a client of mine although I'd be happy to help if it came >by. > > > >------ Original Message ------ > >From: "John Biccum" > >To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com; "Martin Earl" ; >"Norm Keller" > >Sent: 2015-03-16 4:58:16 PM > >Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove? > > > >>And as always the herd knows more than any one of us, even Norm! >>My pitiful contribution? >> >> >> >>I have the axle and most likely the spacers in my KLR spares >>collection if you need them Norm. You (or your client) could either >>buy them for a reasonable price or take them free and resupply me when >>the parts that you would order arrive. >> >> >> >>I could probably be persuaded to deliver as long as I could ride there >> (e.g snow-free roads). >> >> >> >>From:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] >>Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 16:23 >>To: DSN KLR650; Norm Keller >>Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove? >> >> >> >> >> >>Hi Norm, >> >>As always, there is a good takeaway from anything that Norm suggest. >>grin. >> >> >> >>You and I disagree (I think) on where the axle might be seized...and I >>would defer to your experience. smile. >> >>I keep my 'junk' well lubed and the tires changed often enough that >>this is not a problem...however, a barn find will exacerbate >>seizures...I suppose. >> >> >> >>However, after reading your missive 3x, I see that if the axle won't >>turn, it is (most likely) the 'A' and 'B' parts. >> >>extrapolation from your post would suggest, if the axle will turn, it >>is in the 92143. >> >>My own suggestion only considered the 92143-1060 inner collar. >> >> >> >>I just went out to the garage to eyeball the rear wheel and the >>possible offending collars; I have included a link to the microfiche, >> >>pulled the possible offending parts in the matrix below, full credits >>to Ron Ayers. >> >> >> >>http://www.ronayersmotorcycles.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=375633&category=Motorcycles&make=KAWASAKI&year=2001&fveh=8691 >> >> >> >>92143B >> >> >> >>COLLAR,REAR AXLE,L=17 >>#92143-1062 >> >>92143 >> >>COLLAR,REAR BRAKE DRU #92143-1060 >> >>92143A >> >>COLLAR,REAR >> >>#92143-1061 >> >> >> >>If brute force (the 12# hammer) and awkwardness is insufficient, it >>appears a sawzall to cut off the axle 2x, a new axle, bearings and >>'collars' are in the OP's future. Your guidance/suggestion on where >>to cut might be beneficial to all. >> >> >> >>All this would suggest, some barn finds are better than others. shrug. >> >>Over at ADV, a barn find resurrection of a R100RT BMW started at $2000 >>for the 'find', added $3000 to correct all the things of a 'almost >>running' bike required, amounted to a balance-sheet re-sale value of >>$3000. >> >>And this was a very capable mechanic who did everything except the >>head work. >> >> >> >>and so it goes. >> >> >> >>m. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 12:00 PM, 'Norm Keller' normkel32@... >>[DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>>I see seized or nearly so on bikes and ATV frequently. If the axle is >>>seized then plan on a bigger time with the rear suspension. As was >>>said earlier, use a good waterproof chassis or wheel bearing grease >>>on the axles and through bolts rather than never seize. >>> >>> >>> >>>If the axle is seized and won't turn, it's most likely seized to the >>>wheel spacer on the opposite side. In really severe cases, this is >>>pure joy because you can have an axle which is seized to both wheel >>>spacers + both bearings and even the bearing spacer. In really bad >>>cases a cut off wheel or saws-all will be required to cut through the >>>spacers and axle on both sides of the wheel in order to remove from >>>the bike. Be carefull about the force applied in a press as it's >>>possible to break the wheel. >>> >>> >>> >>>My preference is to place a weight against the other side (block of >>>thin hardwood between swing arm and weight) to increase inertia and >>>use a large punch and 12 pound hammer to start the axle moving. I >>>agree that penetrating oils aren't going to do much until it starts >>>moving and then I prefer ATF, good motor oil or (best) hypoid gear >>>oil. If it doesn't move with the hammer, I have a very heavy duty >>>long stroke Mac Tools air hammer which will usually persuade things. >>>Forget using the little girl's air hammers which most people have for >>>cutting sheet metal. >>> >>> >>> >>>Some heat on the axle spacers can help because the aluminum expands >>>more than steel but this isn't easy to do without burning the paint >>>off the swing arm. FWIW, I've sometimes found that using an air >>>hammer chisel to split the axle spacer(s) axially can help because >>>that frees the axle of the spacers and allows oil to contact the >>>wheel bearings and axle. >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >>

---------- ---------- ---------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Martin Earl]

List, One thing for sure, when the center of the swing arm bolt corrodes AND you remove it, it has to be hard on the needle bearings. This is the singular fact is what made me suspicious of the center spacer being the problem on the axle, not the outer spacers. Still could be either, yet I readily defer to Norm's experience. (I would still like to see the sawzall-episode that cuts that axle.) heh. I believe Jeff Saline. removed one such corroded swing arm bolt and it then required bearings; that said, the bearings could have been toast prior to the difficult removal.... m.

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 8:10 PM, Norm Keller wrote: > John, that mirrors virtually all the bikes I see. I don't think that we > should expect greasing of bolts on an assembly line although spraying with > wax or a petroleum film would be ideal, IMO. We're dealing with an > inexpensive machine in a market in which even the high end stuff goes > together dry. I've also seen almost new bikes with corrosion or the > beginnings of that to suspension bolts. There is are several FB threads, as > always, on this problem with the suggestion to install grease nipples > although this is far beyond most people to accomplish. > > IMO, any dual sport should have the rear suspension services once per year > and more if into deep water. Perhaps others have formed a more accurate > assessment of the needed frequency? > > Haven't had to drill one completely out in some time though to things are > looking up. > > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "John Biccum" > To: "Norm Keller" ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com; > "Martin Earl" > Sent: 2015-03-16 6:50:51 PM > Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove? > > > Just remembered something relevant: > > > > When I serviced the swing arm on my first new-to-me KLR (April 2003) I had > a real hard time getting the swing arm bolt out. I used many of the methods > we covered in this thread and finally got it out. What I found on the > swing arm bolt was corrosion in the center third of the bolt as if the > factory installed the bolt with zero grease. My bike was one year old at > this time and the PO had run just 2000 miles since new. > > > > Then a few years later at a Tech Day I hosted we found a couple more such > swing arm bolts rusted into place and they too had the identical pattern of > corrosion in the center third of the bolt. One of the tech day bikes was > brand new and had gone just a few hundred miles. That made me wonder if > the Kawasaki assembly workers were installing bolts that were already > corroded. We were servicing the swing arm just 5 months after the bike was > produced and yet the bolt was already so corroded it was very difficult to > remove. > > > > Here is a pic of that bolt: > http://johnbiccum.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Bellevue-Tech-Day/i-rjL9XsQ/A > > > > I realize that the issue today is an axle bolt not the swing arm bolt. > But I wonder if the root cause might be the same: lack of lubrication at > time of original assembly. > > > > Moral of the story: if you have not serviced your swing arm, do it now > when the corrosion only makes the bolt difficult to remove rather than > waiting until the corrosion makes the bolt impossible to remove. > > > > > > > > *From:* Norm Keller [mailto:normkel32@...] > *Sent:* Monday, March 16, 2015 17:32 > *To:* John Biccum; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com; Martin Earl > *Subject:* Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove? > > > > I think there's great value in knocking these things around and very much > appreciate Martin's views. We have a long history of regard and respect (at > least on my part) and seem both to enjoy trying to refine assessments. I > like discovering that I am wrong or even that I have simply misspoken. > After all one must find some justification for 35+ years of marriage. > > > > The OP is not a client of mine although I'd be happy to help if it came > by. > > > > ------ Original Message ------ > > From: "John Biccum" > > > To: *DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com* DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com>; "Martin > Earl" >; "Norm Keller" *normkel32@...* > > > Sent: 2015-03-16 4:58:16 PM > > Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove? > > > > And as always the herd knows more than any one of us, even Norm! My > pitiful contribution? > > > > I have the axle and most likely the spacers in my KLR spares collection if > you need them Norm. You (or your client) could either buy them for a > reasonable price or take them free and resupply me when the parts that you > would order arrive. > > > > I could probably be persuaded to deliver as long as I could ride there > (e.g snow-free roads). > > > > *From:* *DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com* DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > *DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com* DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com>] > *Sent:* Monday, March 16, 2015 16:23 > *To:* DSN KLR650; Norm Keller > *Subject:* Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove? > > > > > > Hi Norm, > > As always, there is a good takeaway from anything that Norm suggest. grin. > > > > You and I disagree (I think) on where the axle might be seized...and I > would defer to your experience. smile. > > I keep my 'junk' well lubed and the tires changed often enough that this > is not a problem...however, a barn find will exacerbate seizures...I > suppose. > > > > However, after reading your missive 3x, I see that if the axle won't turn, > it is (most likely) the 'A' and 'B' parts. > > extrapolation from your post would suggest, if the axle will turn, it is > in the 92143. > > My own suggestion only considered the 92143-1060 inner collar. > > > > I just went out to the garage to eyeball the rear wheel and the possible > offending collars; I have included a link to the microfiche, > > pulled the possible offending parts in the matrix below, full credits to > Ron Ayers. > > > > > *http://www.ronayersmotorcycles.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=375633&category=Motorcycles&make=KAWASAKI&year=2001&fveh=8691* > http://www.ronayersmotorcycles.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=375633&category=Motorcycles&make=KAWASAKI&year=2001&fveh=8691> > > > > 92143B > > > > COLLAR,REAR AXLE,L=17 > #92143-1062 > > 92143 > > COLLAR,REAR BRAKE DRU #92143-1060 > > 92143A > > COLLAR,REAR > > #92143-1061 > > > > If brute force (the 12# hammer) and awkwardness is insufficient, it > appears a sawzall to cut off the axle 2x, a new axle, bearings and > 'collars' are in the OP's future. Your guidance/suggestion on where to cut > might be beneficial to all. > > > > All this would suggest, some barn finds are better than others. shrug. > > Over at ADV, a barn find resurrection of a R100RT BMW started at $2000 for > the 'find', added $3000 to correct all the things of a 'almost running' > bike required, amounted to a balance-sheet re-sale value of $3000. > > And this was a very capable mechanic who did everything except the head > work. > > > > and so it goes. > > > > m. > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 12:00 PM, 'Norm Keller' *normkel32@...* > [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com* > DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com>> wrote: > > > > I see seized or nearly so on bikes and ATV frequently. If the axle is > seized then plan on a bigger time with the rear suspension. As was said > earlier, use a good waterproof chassis or wheel bearing grease on the axles > and through bolts rather than never seize. > > > > If the axle is seized and won't turn, it's most likely seized to the wheel > spacer on the opposite side. In really severe cases, this is pure joy > because you can have an axle which is seized to both wheel spacers + both > bearings and even the bearing spacer. In really bad cases a cut off wheel > or saws-all will be required to cut through the spacers and axle on both > sides of the wheel in order to remove from the bike. Be carefull about the > force applied in a press as it's possible to break the wheel. > > > > My preference is to place a weight against the other side (block of thin > hardwood between swing arm and weight) to increase inertia and use a large > punch and 12 pound hammer to start the axle moving. I agree that > penetrating oils aren't going to do much until it starts moving and then I > prefer ATF, good motor oil or (best) hypoid gear oil. If it doesn't move > with the hammer, I have a very heavy duty long stroke Mac Tools air hammer > which will usually persuade things. Forget using the little girl's air > hammers which most people have for cutting sheet metal. > > > > Some heat on the axle spacers can help because the aluminum expands more > than steel but this isn't easy to do without burning the paint off the > swing arm. FWIW, I've sometimes found that using an air hammer chisel to > split the axle spacer(s) axially can help because that frees the axle of > the spacers and allows oil to contact the wheel bearings and axle. > > > > > > > > ---------- ---------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[tomatocity]

Is this the ride Cabrito went on?

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 8:16 AM, 'Ateam Consulting' ateam@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u] If any one is interested in a non KLR report, 10 folks went to Baja around the 14th of February. I rode my DRZ, it was a very nimble bike in the deep sand. Those on a DR650 and 2 XR650L s really struggled in the deep stuff. My KLR would have made it but it would also have been a difficult ride except on the minimal slab we rode. http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1046271 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[John Biccum]

I was concerned about the needle bearings on my swing arm. So I removed them, cleaned them in solvent, inspected them, greased them (Mobil 1 synthetic grease) and reinstalled them. My bearings were still fine but I wonder if I had waited longer what the abrasiveness of the corrosion on the swing arm bolt would have done to the bearings. From: Martin Earl [mailto:mjearl4@...] Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 22:34 To: Norm Keller Cc: John Biccum; DSN KLR650 Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove? List, One thing for sure, when the center of the swing arm bolt corrodes AND you remove it, it has to be hard on the needle bearings. This is the singular fact is what made me suspicious of the center spacer being the problem on the axle, not the outer spacers. Still could be either, yet I readily defer to Norm's experience. (I would still like to see the sawzall-episode that cuts that axle.) heh. I believe Jeff Saline. removed one such corroded swing arm bolt and it then required bearings; that said, the bearings could have been toast prior to the difficult removal.... m.

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 8:10 PM, Norm Keller > wrote: John, that mirrors virtually all the bikes I see. I don't think that we should expect greasing of bolts on an assembly line although spraying with wax or a petroleum film would be ideal, IMO. We're dealing with an inexpensive machine in a market in which even the high end stuff goes together dry. I've also seen almost new bikes with corrosion or the beginnings of that to suspension bolts. There is are several FB threads, as always, on this problem with the suggestion to install grease nipples although this is far beyond most people to accomplish. IMO, any dual sport should have the rear suspension services once per year and more if into deep water. Perhaps others have formed a more accurate assessment of the needed frequency? Haven't had to drill one completely out in some time though to things are looking up. ------ Original Message ------ From: "John Biccum" > To: "Norm Keller" >; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> ; "Martin Earl" > Sent: 2015-03-16 6:50:51 PM Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove? Just remembered something relevant: When I serviced the swing arm on my first new-to-me KLR (April 2003) I had a real hard time getting the swing arm bolt out. I used many of the methods we covered in this thread and finally got it out. What I found on the swing arm bolt was corrosion in the center third of the bolt as if the factory installed the bolt with zero grease. My bike was one year old at this time and the PO had run just 2000 miles since new. Then a few years later at a Tech Day I hosted we found a couple more such swing arm bolts rusted into place and they too had the identical pattern of corrosion in the center third of the bolt. One of the tech day bikes was brand new and had gone just a few hundred miles. That made me wonder if the Kawasaki assembly workers were installing bolts that were already corroded. We were servicing the swing arm just 5 months after the bike was produced and yet the bolt was already so corroded it was very difficult to remove. Here is a pic of that bolt: http://johnbiccum.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Bellevue-Tech-Day/i-rjL9XsQ/A> http://johnbiccum.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Bellevue-Tech-Day/i-rjL9XsQ/A I realize that the issue today is an axle bolt not the swing arm bolt. But I wonder if the root cause might be the same: lack of lubrication at time of original assembly. Moral of the story: if you have not serviced your swing arm, do it now when the corrosion only makes the bolt difficult to remove rather than waiting until the corrosion makes the bolt impossible to remove. From: Norm Keller [mailto:normkel32@... ] Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 17:32 To: John Biccum; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> ; Martin Earl Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove? I think there's great value in knocking these things around and very much appreciate Martin's views. We have a long history of regard and respect (at least on my part) and seem both to enjoy trying to refine assessments. I like discovering that I am wrong or even that I have simply misspoken. After all one must find some justification for 35+ years of marriage. The OP is not a client of mine although I'd be happy to help if it came by. ------ Original Message ------ From: "John Biccum" > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> ; "Martin Earl" >; "Norm Keller" > Sent: 2015-03-16 4:58:16 PM Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove? And as always the herd knows more than any one of us, even Norm! My pitiful contribution? I have the axle and most likely the spacers in my KLR spares collection if you need them Norm. You (or your client) could either buy them for a reasonable price or take them free and resupply me when the parts that you would order arrive. I could probably be persuaded to deliver as long as I could ride there (e.g snow-free roads). From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> ] Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 16:23 To: DSN KLR650; Norm Keller Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove? Hi Norm, As always, there is a good takeaway from anything that Norm suggest. grin. You and I disagree (I think) on where the axle might be seized...and I would defer to your experience. smile. I keep my 'junk' well lubed and the tires changed often enough that this is not a problem...however, a barn find will exacerbate seizures...I suppose. However, after reading your missive 3x, I see that if the axle won't turn, it is (most likely) the 'A' and 'B' parts. extrapolation from your post would suggest, if the axle will turn, it is in the 92143. My own suggestion only considered the 92143-1060 inner collar. I just went out to the garage to eyeball the rear wheel and the possible offending collars; I have included a link to the microfiche, pulled the possible offending parts in the matrix below, full credits to Ron Ayers. http://www.ronayersmotorcycles.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=375633 http://www.ronayersmotorcycles.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=375633&category=Motorcycles&make=KAWASAKI&year=2001&fveh=8691> &category=Motorcycles&make=KAWASAKI&year=2001&fveh=8691 92143B COLLAR,REAR AXLE,L=17 #92143-1062 92143 COLLAR,REAR BRAKE DRU #92143-1060 92143A COLLAR,REAR #92143-1061 If brute force (the 12# hammer) and awkwardness is insufficient, it appears a sawzall to cut off the axle 2x, a new axle, bearings and 'collars' are in the OP's future. Your guidance/suggestion on where to cut might be beneficial to all. All this would suggest, some barn finds are better than others. shrug. Over at ADV, a barn find resurrection of a R100RT BMW started at $2000 for the 'find', added $3000 to correct all the things of a 'almost running' bike required, amounted to a balance-sheet re-sale value of $3000. And this was a very capable mechanic who did everything except the head work. and so it goes. m. On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 12:00 PM, 'Norm Keller' normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> > wrote: I see seized or nearly so on bikes and ATV frequently. If the axle is seized then plan on a bigger time with the rear suspension. As was said earlier, use a good waterproof chassis or wheel bearing grease on the axles and through bolts rather than never seize. If the axle is seized and won't turn, it's most likely seized to the wheel spacer on the opposite side. In really severe cases, this is pure joy because you can have an axle which is seized to both wheel spacers + both bearings and even the bearing spacer. In really bad cases a cut off wheel or saws-all will be required to cut through the spacers and axle on both sides of the wheel in order to remove from the bike. Be carefull about the force applied in a press as it's possible to break the wheel. My preference is to place a weight against the other side (block of thin hardwood between swing arm and weight) to increase inertia and use a large punch and 12 pound hammer to start the axle moving. I agree that penetrating oils aren't going to do much until it starts moving and then I prefer ATF, good motor oil or (best) hypoid gear oil. If it doesn't move with the hammer, I have a very heavy duty long stroke Mac Tools air hammer which will usually persuade things. Forget using the little girl's air hammers which most people have for cutting sheet metal. Some heat on the axle spacers can help because the aluminum expands more than steel but this isn't easy to do without burning the paint off the swing arm. FWIW, I've sometimes found that using an air hammer chisel to split the axle spacer(s) axially can help because that frees the axle of the spacers and allows oil to contact the wheel bearings and axle. ---------- ---------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[mark ward]

Sawzall? The Sawzall uses somewhat thicker blades than the Portable Band saw. (I have Both & More) Mark (W. Mich.) On Tuesday, March 17, 2015 3:03 PM, "'John Biccum' johnbiccum@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  I was concerned about the needle bearings on my swing arm. So I removed them, cleaned them in solvent, inspected them, greased them (Mobil 1 synthetic grease) and reinstalled them. My bearings were still fine but I wonder if I had waited longer what the abrasiveness of the corrosion on the swing arm bolt would have done to the bearings. From: Martin Earl [mailto:mjearl4@...] Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 22:34 To: Norm Keller Cc: John Biccum; DSN KLR650 Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove? List, One thing for sure, when the center of the swing arm bolt corrodes AND you remove it, it has to be hard on the needle bearings. This is the singular fact is what made me suspicious of the center spacer being the problem on the axle, not the outer spacers. Still could be either, yet I readily defer to Norm's experience. (I would still like to see the sawzall-episode that cuts that axle.) heh. I believe Jeff Saline. removed one such corroded swing arm bolt and it then required bearings; that said, the bearings could have been toast prior to the difficult removal.... m. On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 8:10 PM, Norm Keller > wrote: John, that mirrors virtually all the bikes I see. I don't think that we should expect greasing of bolts on an assembly line although spraying with wax or a petroleum film would be ideal, IMO. We're dealing with an inexpensive machine in a market in which even the high end stuff goes together dry. I've also seen almost new bikes with corrosion or the beginnings of that to suspension bolts. There is are several FB threads, as always, on this problem with the suggestion to install grease nipples although this is far beyond most people to accomplish. IMO, any dual sport should have the rear suspension services once per year and more if into deep water. Perhaps others have formed a more accurate assessment of the needed frequency? Haven't had to drill one completely out in some time though to things are looking up. ------ Original Message ------ From: "John Biccum" > To: "Norm Keller" >; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> ; "Martin Earl" > Sent: 2015-03-16 6:50:51 PM Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove? Just remembered something relevant: When I serviced the swing arm on my first new-to-me KLR (April 2003) I had a real hard time getting the swing arm bolt out. I used many of the methods we covered in this thread and finally got it out. What I found on the swing arm bolt was corrosion in the center third of the bolt as if the factory installed the bolt with zero grease. My bike was one year old at this time and the PO had run just 2000 miles since new. Then a few years later at a Tech Day I hosted we found a couple more such swing arm bolts rusted into place and they too had the identical pattern of corrosion in the center third of the bolt. One of the tech day bikes was brand new and had gone just a few hundred miles. That made me wonder if the Kawasaki assembly workers were installing bolts that were already corroded. We were servicing the swing arm just 5 months after the bike was produced and yet the bolt was already so corroded it was very difficult to remove. Here is a pic of that bolt: http://johnbiccum.smugmug.com/Motorcycl ... -rjL9XsQ/A> http://johnbiccum.smugmug.com/Motorcycl ... -rjL9XsQ/A I realize that the issue today is an axle bolt not the swing arm bolt. But I wonder if the root cause might be the same: lack of lubrication at time of original assembly. Moral of the story: if you have not serviced your swing arm, do it now when the corrosion only makes the bolt difficult to remove rather than waiting until the corrosion makes the bolt impossible to remove. From: Norm Keller [mailto:normkel32@... ] Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 17:32 To: John Biccum; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> ; Martin Earl Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove? I think there's great value in knocking these things around and very much appreciate Martin's views. We have a long history of regard and respect (at least on my part) and seem both to enjoy trying to refine assessments. I like discovering that I am wrong or even that I have simply misspoken. After all one must find some justification for 35+ years of marriage. The OP is not a client of mine although I'd be happy to help if it came by. ------ Original Message ------ From: "John Biccum" > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> ; "Martin Earl" >; "Norm Keller" > Sent: 2015-03-16 4:58:16 PM Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove? And as always the herd knows more than any one of us, even Norm! My pitiful contribution? I have the axle and most likely the spacers in my KLR spares collection if you need them Norm. You (or your client) could either buy them for a reasonable price or take them free and resupply me when the parts that you would order arrive. I could probably be persuaded to deliver as long as I could ride there (e.g snow-free roads). From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> ] Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 16:23 To: DSN KLR650; Norm Keller Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove? Hi Norm, As always, there is a good takeaway from anything that Norm suggest. grin. You and I disagree (I think) on where the axle might be seized...and I would defer to your experience. smile. I keep my 'junk' well lubed and the tires changed often enough that this is not a problem...however, a barn find will exacerbate seizures...I suppose. However, after reading your missive 3x, I see that if the axle won't turn, it is (most likely) the 'A' and 'B' parts. extrapolation from your post would suggest, if the axle will turn, it is in the 92143. My own suggestion only considered the 92143-1060 inner collar. I just went out to the garage to eyeball the rear wheel and the possible offending collars; I have included a link to the microfiche, pulled the possible offending parts in the matrix below, full credits to Ron Ayers. http://www.ronayersmotorcycles.com/fich ... ion=375633 http://www.ronayersmotorcycles.com/fich ... &fveh=8691> &category=Motorcycles&make=KAWASAKI&year=2001&fveh=8691 92143B COLLAR,REAR AXLE,L=17 #92143-1062 92143 COLLAR,REAR BRAKE DRU #92143-1060 92143A COLLAR,REAR #92143-1061 If brute force (the 12# hammer) and awkwardness is insufficient, it appears a sawzall to cut off the axle 2x, a new axle, bearings and 'collars' are in the OP's future. Your guidance/suggestion on where to cut might be beneficial to all. All this would suggest, some barn finds are better than others. shrug. Over at ADV, a barn find resurrection of a R100RT BMW started at $2000 for the 'find', added $3000 to correct all the things of a 'almost running' bike required, amounted to a balance-sheet re-sale value of $3000. And this was a very capable mechanic who did everything except the head work. and so it goes. m. On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 12:00 PM, 'Norm Keller' normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> > wrote: I see seized or nearly so on bikes and ATV frequently. If the axle is seized then plan on a bigger time with the rear suspension. As was said earlier, use a good waterproof chassis or wheel bearing grease on the axles and through bolts rather than never seize. If the axle is seized and won't turn, it's most likely seized to the wheel spacer on the opposite side. In really severe cases, this is pure joy because you can have an axle which is seized to both wheel spacers + both bearings and even the bearing spacer. In really bad cases a cut off wheel or saws-all will be required to cut through the spacers and axle on both sides of the wheel in order to remove from the bike. Be carefull about the force applied in a press as it's possible to break the wheel. My preference is to place a weight against the other side (block of thin hardwood between swing arm and weight) to increase inertia and use a large punch and 12 pound hammer to start the axle moving. I agree that penetrating oils aren't going to do much until it starts moving and then I prefer ATF, good motor oil or (best) hypoid gear oil. If it doesn't move with the hammer, I have a very heavy duty long stroke Mac Tools air hammer which will usually persuade things. Forget using the little girl's air hammers which most people have for cutting sheet metal. Some heat on the axle spacers can help because the aluminum expands more than steel but this isn't easy to do without burning the paint off the swing arm. FWIW, I've sometimes found that using an air hammer chisel to split the axle spacer(s) axially can help because that frees the axle of the spacers and allows oil to contact the wheel bearings and axle. ---------- ---------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #ygrps-yiv-1004089251 #ygrps-yiv-1004089251yiv8061116294 #ygrps-yiv-1004089251yiv8061116294 -- #ygrps-yiv-1004089251yiv8061116294ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #ygrps-yiv-1004089251 #ygrps-yiv-1004089251yiv8061116294 #ygrps-yiv-1004089251yiv8061116294ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrps-yiv-1004089251 #ygrps-yiv-1004089251yiv8061116294 #ygrps-yiv-1004089251yiv8061116294ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-1004089251yiv8061116294hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #ygrps-yiv-1004089251 #ygrps-yiv-1004089251yiv8061116294 #ygrps-yiv-1004089251yiv8061116294ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-1004089251yiv8061116294ads { margin-bottom:10px;} 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[Norm Keller]

The needle bearing rollers run against the "tin" outside race, but there is no inner bearing race which is why these are often referenced as "Bremen Bearings" by older technicians. They resemble older back alternator bearings in that way. This type of bearing accepts radial (loads at 90 degree to the needles) loads but have no ability to accept axial loads (loads parallel to the needles). These bearings use an inner sleeve which has a hardened surface as the inner race in the bike's application. The inner sleeve is supported by the swing arm bolt or linkage bolt which accepts the load + the end of the sleeve is clamped against the side structures by the tension of the bolt. I have no way to know what percentage of the load is supported by the bolt and what percentage is supported by the resistance to shear provided by the clamping of the ends. I guess it would be more correct to state that I'm too lazy to calculate as know how to do so and the factors are readily available for reference. If the through bolt is seized, it will be seized to the inner bearing sleeve and not to the bearing. This is why people start to remove and quickly find that they are able to turn the through bolt. They feel that the turning of the through bolt indicates victory and that continuing to turn will help facilitate removal but a moment's reflection will show that this is not the case. Similarly, if force needs be applied to remove the bolt, the force can only be useful and only applied axially since the bearing cannot provide resistance to movement in a useful (axial) direction. The thickness of the inner sleeve would seem to be far more than sufficient to prevent any effect of ballooning of the sleeve to affect the bearing which leads to the conclusion that efforts to remove the seized bolt from the inner sleeve will have no effect on the bearings. The only way in which the bearing can be affected is if there is some mechanical connection resisting axial movement. Any such mechanical connection must be due to corrosion or similar effects which will, in them selves, be the reason to replace the bearing, rather than the effects of removal. That's my assessment. I've had to replace many rear suspension bearings but always because of damage due to corrosion and such. If someone can present a case for damage otherwise, such as due to removal, I would be most grateful to hear. ------ Original Message ------ From: "Martin Earl" To: "Norm Keller" Cc: "John Biccum" ; "DSN KLR650" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: 2015-03-16 10:33:38 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove?

>List, >One thing for sure, when the center of the swing arm bolt corrodes AND >you remove it, it has to be hard on the needle bearings. >This is the singular fact is what made me suspicious of the center >spacer being the problem on the axle, not the outer spacers. >Still could be either, yet I readily defer to Norm's experience. (I >would still like to see the sawzall-episode that cuts that axle.) heh. > >I believe Jeff Saline. removed one such corroded swing arm bolt and it >then required bearings; that said, the bearings could have been toast >prior to the difficult removal.... >m. > >On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 8:10 PM, Norm Keller >wrote: >>John, that mirrors virtually all the bikes I see. I don't think that >>we should expect greasing of bolts on an assembly line although >>spraying with wax or a petroleum film would be ideal, IMO. We're >>dealing with an inexpensive machine in a market in which even the high >>end stuff goes together dry. I've also seen almost new bikes with >>corrosion or the beginnings of that to suspension bolts. There is are >>several FB threads, as always, on this problem with the suggestion to >>install grease nipples although this is far beyond most people to >>accomplish. >> >>IMO, any dual sport should have the rear suspension services once per >>year and more if into deep water. Perhaps others have formed a more >>accurate assessment of the needed frequency? >> >>Haven't had to drill one completely out in some time though to things >>are looking up. >> >> >>------ Original Message ------ >>From: "John Biccum" >>To: "Norm Keller" ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com; >>"Martin Earl" >>Sent: 2015-03-16 6:50:51 PM >>Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove? >> >>>Just remembered something relevant: >>> >>> >>> >>>When I serviced the swing arm on my first new-to-me KLR (April 2003) >>>I had a real hard time getting the swing arm bolt out. I used many of >>>the methods we covered in this thread and finally got it out. What I >>>found on the swing arm bolt was corrosion in the center third of the >>>bolt as if the factory installed the bolt with zero grease. My bike >>>was one year old at this time and the PO had run just 2000 miles >>>since new. >>> >>> >>> >>>Then a few years later at a Tech Day I hosted we found a couple more >>>such swing arm bolts rusted into place and they too had the identical >>>pattern of corrosion in the center third of the bolt. One of the >>>tech day bikes was brand new and had gone just a few hundred miles. >>>That made me wonder if the Kawasaki assembly workers were installing >>>bolts that were already corroded. We were servicing the swing arm >>>just 5 months after the bike was produced and yet the bolt was >>>already so corroded it was very difficult to remove. >>> >>> >>> >>>Here is a pic of that bolt: >>>http://johnbiccum.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Bellevue-Tech-Day/i-rjL9XsQ/A >>> >>> >>> >>>I realize that the issue today is an axle bolt not the swing arm >>>bolt. But I wonder if the root cause might be the same: lack of >>>lubrication at time of original assembly. >>> >>> >>> >>>Moral of the story: if you have not serviced your swing arm, do it >>>now when the corrosion only makes the bolt difficult to remove rather >>>than waiting until the corrosion makes the bolt impossible to >>>remove. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>From: Norm Keller [mailto:normkel32@...] >>>Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 17:32 >>>To: John Biccum; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com; Martin Earl >>>Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove? >>> >>> >>> >>>I think there's great value in knocking these things around and very >>>much appreciate Martin's views. We have a long history of regard and >>>respect (at least on my part) and seem both to enjoy trying to refine >>>assessments. I like discovering that I am wrong or even that I have >>>simply misspoken. After all one must find some justification for 35+ >>>years of marriage. >>> >>> >>> >>>The OP is not a client of mine although I'd be happy to help if it >>>came by. >>> >>> >>> >>>------ Original Message ------ >>> >>>From: "John Biccum" >>> >>>To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com; "Martin Earl" ; >>>"Norm Keller" >>> >>>Sent: 2015-03-16 4:58:16 PM >>> >>>Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove? >>> >>> >>> >>>>And as always the herd knows more than any one of us, even Norm! >>>>My pitiful contribution? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>I have the axle and most likely the spacers in my KLR spares >>>>collection if you need them Norm. You (or your client) could >>>>either buy them for a reasonable price or take them free and >>>>resupply me when the parts that you would order arrive. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>I could probably be persuaded to deliver as long as I could ride >>>>there (e.g snow-free roads). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>From:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] >>>>Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 16:23 >>>>To: DSN KLR650; Norm Keller >>>>Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Frozen rear axle -How to remove? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Hi Norm, >>>> >>>>As always, there is a good takeaway from anything that Norm suggest. >>>>grin. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>You and I disagree (I think) on where the axle might be seized...and >>>>I would defer to your experience. smile. >>>> >>>>I keep my 'junk' well lubed and the tires changed often enough that >>>>this is not a problem...however, a barn find will exacerbate >>>>seizures...I suppose. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>However, after reading your missive 3x, I see that if the axle won't >>>>turn, it is (most likely) the 'A' and 'B' parts. >>>> >>>>extrapolation from your post would suggest, if the axle will turn, >>>>it is in the 92143. >>>> >>>>My own suggestion only considered the 92143-1060 inner collar. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>I just went out to the garage to eyeball the rear wheel and the >>>>possible offending collars; I have included a link to the >>>>microfiche, >>>> >>>>pulled the possible offending parts in the matrix below, full >>>>credits to Ron Ayers. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>http://www.ronayersmotorcycles.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=375633&category=Motorcycles&make=KAWASAKI&year=2001&fveh=8691 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>92143B >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>COLLAR,REAR AXLE,L=17 >>>>#92143-1062 >>>> >>>>92143 >>>> >>>>COLLAR,REAR BRAKE DRU #92143-1060 >>>> >>>>92143A >>>> >>>>COLLAR,REAR >>>> >>>>#92143-1061 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>If brute force (the 12# hammer) and awkwardness is insufficient, it >>>>appears a sawzall to cut off the axle 2x, a new axle, bearings and >>>>'collars' are in the OP's future. Your guidance/suggestion on where >>>>to cut might be beneficial to all. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>All this would suggest, some barn finds are better than others. >>>>shrug. >>>> >>>>Over at ADV, a barn find resurrection of a R100RT BMW started at >>>>$2000 for the 'find', added $3000 to correct all the things of a >>>>'almost running' bike required, amounted to a balance-sheet re-sale >>>>value of $3000. >>>> >>>>And this was a very capable mechanic who did everything except the >>>>head work. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>and so it goes. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>m. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 12:00 PM, 'Norm Keller' normkel32@... >>>>[DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>I see seized or nearly so on bikes and ATV frequently. If the axle >>>>>is seized then plan on a bigger time with the rear suspension. As >>>>>was said earlier, use a good waterproof chassis or wheel bearing >>>>>grease on the axles and through bolts rather than never seize. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>If the axle is seized and won't turn, it's most likely seized to >>>>>the wheel spacer on the opposite side. In really severe cases, this >>>>>is pure joy because you can have an axle which is seized to both >>>>>wheel spacers + both bearings and even the bearing spacer. In >>>>>really bad cases a cut off wheel or saws-all will be required to >>>>>cut through the spacers and axle on both sides of the wheel in >>>>>order to remove from the bike. Be carefull about the force applied >>>>>in a press as it's possible to break the wheel. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>My preference is to place a weight against the other side (block of >>>>>thin hardwood between swing arm and weight) to increase inertia and >>>>>use a large punch and 12 pound hammer to start the axle moving. I >>>>>agree that penetrating oils aren't going to do much until it starts >>>>>moving and then I prefer ATF, good motor oil or (best) hypoid gear >>>>>oil. If it doesn't move with the hammer, I have a very heavy duty >>>>>long stroke Mac Tools air hammer which will usually persuade >>>>>things. Forget using the little girl's air hammers which most >>>>>people have for cutting sheet metal. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Some heat on the axle spacers can help because the aluminum expands >>>>>more than steel but this isn't easy to do without burning the paint >>>>>off the swing arm. FWIW, I've sometimes found that using an air >>>>>hammer chisel to split the axle spacer(s) axially can help because >>>>>that frees the axle of the spacers and allows oil to contact the >>>>>wheel bearings and axle. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >

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