sv650 caliper & gen2 rotor

[Norm Keller]

Suzuki SV650 dual piston caliper mounted to my Gen1 by a custom mounting bracket & in order to accommodate a Gen2 280 mm front rotor in place of the 260 mm. The Gen2 rotor is thicker also which should help during prolonged braking. After bleeding the (10 mm bore) 250 Ninja master cylinder seems to have sufficient stroke. Pouring rain and night so will see how it performs tomorrow. It would have been fun to see the difference in switching to the larger rotor with the stock caliper but making an adapter plate to try that when it was only going to be pulled off again seemed too much effort. https://www.dropbox.com/s/1rfnazw88ijdnfy/Gen2%20rotor%20%26%20Suzuki%20caliper3.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/vagqa0b7zbw5ljk/Ninja%20Master.jpg?dl=0 If these mods work out, they will be numbers 97 & 98 on this KLR. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Norm Keller]

A quick guesstimate shows that the pad area of the SV650 caliper is about 150% of the Gen1 KLR. The swept area of the 280 mm rotor is 110% per revolution, of the 260. Ninja 10 mm master versus stock KLR 12 mm. SV650 piston area is 125% of KLR piston area.

 

So what is possible from a master cylinder which applies 150% of the pressure + 150% pad area + 125% piston area + 110% swept area per revolution?

[hillrallyuk]

The European "C" model (1995-2003) already had a 280mm disk and the same twin-pot Tokico caliper as the early SV650. Late Tengai models have the same caliper, but the smaller 260mm rotor. Upgrade kits don't sell well in Europe, as it's already possible to lock the front wheel on hard surfaces. Mark UK 2002 KLR650C

[RobertWichert]

Locked front wheel. Robert ========================= On 1/24/2015 8:22 PM, 'Norm Keller' normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650] wrote:

A quick guesstimate shows that the pad area of the SV650 caliper is about 150% of the Gen1 KLR. The swept area of the 280 mm rotor is 110% per revolution, of the 260. Ninja 10 mm master versus stock KLR 12 mm. SV650 piston area is 125% of KLR piston area. So what is possible from a master cylinder which applies 150% of the pressure + 150% pad area + 125% piston area + 110% swept area per revolution?

-- Robert P. Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP CEPE CEA HERS I/II BPI BA +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068

[Norm Keller]

(LOL) Great response, Robert.

 

 

Given that's not generally possible for a Gen1 on clean pavement, that's ultimately the limit. It would allow one to possibly go back to the stock master, limit lever stroke or other means to manage/reduce more braking effect than required. IME, the ability to ultimately lock the front wheel should also point to greater braking endurance since the amount of usable braking during fade would be greater.

[Norm Keller]

#ygrps-yiv-1056614300 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-1056614300cite {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;} #ygrps-yiv-1056614300 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-1056614300cite2 {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;margin-top:3px;padding-top:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-1056614300 .ygrps-yiv-1056614300plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-1056614300 .ygrps-yiv-1056614300plain tt {font-family:monospace;font-size:100%;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-1056614300 a img {border:0px;}#ygrps-yiv-1056614300 {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;} #ygrps-yiv-1056614300 .ygrps-yiv-1056614300plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-1056614300 .ygrps-yiv-1056614300plain tt {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;} Interesting back ground, Mark. Thanks. Will look at that for interest as might be something I can use from the specifications.   I should have included that part of this was a low cost brake improvement + wishing to avoid the 320 mm rotor because have seen them bent during falls.   Does anyone know if the Euro bikes had the same fork tube bolt spacing as the KLR which we encounter? I wonder if someone could simply order the caliper?       ------ Original Message ------ From: "hillrally@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> To: normkel32@... Sent: 2015-01-25 7:10:44 AM Subject: Re: Gen2 front rotor and dual piston caliper modification  

The European "C" model (1995-2003) already had a 280mm disk and the same twin-pot Tokico caliper as the early SV650. Late Tengai models have the same caliper, but the smaller 260mm rotor. Upgrade kits don't sell well in Europe, as it's already possible to lock the front wheel on hard surfaces. Mark UK 2002 KLR650C

[Norm Keller]

#ygrps-yiv-1068284664 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-1068284664cite {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;} #ygrps-yiv-1068284664 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-1068284664cite2 {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;margin-top:3px;padding-top:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-1068284664 .ygrps-yiv-1068284664plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-1068284664 .ygrps-yiv-1068284664plain tt {font-family:monospace;font-size:100%;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-1068284664 a img {border:0px;}#ygrps-yiv-1068284664 {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;} #ygrps-yiv-1068284664 .ygrps-yiv-1068284664plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-1068284664 .ygrps-yiv-1068284664plain tt {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;}     A test ride showed that the pads which came with the caliper needed some attention. The braking was very poor initially but heated them up and they seem quite good for now. I don't know that they are as have been focused on the fitting. The Ninja master cylinder's stroke is on the edge with this caliper volume. I will surface the pads when I remove the caliper to paint and detail the fitting.   The pad make & model was part of my problem in considering friction as no way to determine even the base line. I could only not when reading Damocles' points as cannot tie it together as yet...maybe ever?    OK, the impressions:   Next to new (couple of hundred miles?) Shinko Trail Master 3.00 x 21 with Tubliss on front, FWIW.   Wet road/damp road pulling the lever nearly to the grip locks the front tire and deflects the forks such that had one near miss from dumping the bike. OK, not bad!   Dry road (about 14- 15 C or 60 F) the tire cries and slides intermittently. I could manage to lock it up with a very quick and hard application. If had a tiny bit more stroke, it would lock completely. I might stick another dime to the master piston.   I think that I'm at the point where don't need any more braking effect unless ABS were available.   The set up is: 250 Ninja master cylinder with slack shimmed, braided brake hoses, Gen2 front rotor with bolt holes counter bored by 0.035", Suzuki SV650 master cylinder with unknown pads, Deville adapter plate to mount caliper to fork leg.   Cost was very low for the set-up, excepting for the unknown of the adapter plate. If there is interest, I will consult Terry to obtain a quote for a batch.

[Mark Gardiner HRAOL]

 

I don t know why Kawasaki didn t simply add the Tengai twin-pot calliper to the A series bikes when it introduced the later system on the B series Tengai. I have a feeling that the fork leg bolt-spacing is wider apart on the Tengai, and I ll check the one in my garage tomorrow. I ll also check the disk diameter as the wheel is still fitted to those forks, but I didn t buy the rest of the bike as it was fire-damaged from the engine and tank backwards.

 

Mark UK 2002 KLR650C

 

[b]From:[/b] Norm Keller [normkel32@...] [b]Sent:[/b] 25 January 2015 19:17 [b]To:[/b] hillrally@...; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: Gen2 front rotor and dual piston caliper modification

 

Interesting back ground, Mark. Thanks. Will look at that for interest as might be something I can use from the specifications.

 

I should have included that part of this was a low cost brake improvement + wishing to avoid the 320 mm rotor because have seen them bent during falls.

 

Does anyone know if the Euro bikes had the same fork tube bolt spacing as the KLR which we encounter? I wonder if someone could simply order the caliper?

 

 

 

------ Original Message ------

From: "hillrally@...%20[DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com>

To: normkel32@...

Sent: 2015-01-25 7:10:44 AM

Subject: Re: Gen2 front rotor and dual piston caliper modification

 

The European "C" model (1995-2003) already had a 280mm disk and the same twin-pot Tokico caliper as the early SV650. Late Tengai models have the same caliper, but the smaller 260mm rotor. Upgrade kits don't sell well in Europe, as it's already possible to lock the front wheel on hard surfaces. Mark UK 2002 KLR650C

[hillrallyuk]

I've just had a trip around the garage with a tape measure. The spacing of the front calliper mounting holes is around 55mm on the "C" model fork leg, and around 90mm (3.5") on the Tengai "B" and pre 1995 "A" model. We didn't get the post 1995 "A" model here, the "C" was imported by Kawasaki and a few parallel importers from 1996 onwards. The twin-pot callipers are the same on "B" and "C" models, but the mounting bracket is different. I also have a twin-pot calliper with slightly different piston sizes - one is larger than the other, but the pads (FA227) are the same. The front forks are interchangeable, but with these differences: silver painted yokes and lower fork tubes and no air-valve or yellow reflectors on "C" models, black yokes and anodised lower tubes on "B" models. Let me know if anyone is planning a conversion, and I can supply pics and measurements. MARK UK 2002 KLR650C

[hillrallyuk]

Just spotted on Ebay UK - don't even think of rebuilding the front end if you don't have a Clymer's! Spot the huge mistake - kawasaki 650 klr Tengai [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2Fimages%2Fi%2F151568498347-0-1%2Fs-l1000.jpg&t=1571810075&sig=HUf94kYNlEMT9Fw_UZ3KAw--~E[/img] kawasaki 650 klr Tengai kawasaki 650 klr Tengai in Vehicle Parts & Accessories, Motorcycle Parts, Other Motorcycle Parts | eBay View on www.ebay.co.uk Preview by Yahoo   Mark UK