Not theory, fact. You need to look up the cites with the most violent crimes and it is always the cities and states that have the most gun control (look at Washington D.C.). I have lived in lived in four countries and on both coasts and now reside in Texas and have only had a gun pointed at me in California (three times). I do not want to live like those from New Orleans waiting for someone to help me because I can not help myself. I have some friends that worked in New Orleans after Katrina and than in Kansas after the tornadoes. They said the people in New Orleans where waiting for everyone to do everything for them and complained all the time. The wonderful people of Kansas almost had to be forced to accept any help and were very thankful to everyone. Now, how about we just talk about KLR's.
"E.L. Green" wrote:
--- In
DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "James Morrow Sr"
wrote:
>
> Your entirely right, someone like you shouldn't have a gun, probably
like
> most people.
>
> However, many who consider not being a victim, do learn to use a
firearm. I
> practice shoot more than 10,000 rounds per year. About 50X what an
average
> police office might shoot.
>
So have you ever had a gun aimed at you? Do you know how you would
react? Have you ever killed someone with your gun? Do you know -- I
mean *KNOW*, not just conjecture -- that you would be capable of doing
so? Or is this all just bluster based on conjecture?
I've luckily never had to kill someone, either as a member of the
military or otherwise. Those I've talked to who've had to do so report
it is a very sobering event, and that only their military training and
the fact that their buddies were depending on them allowed them to do it.
> Certainly a gun or nothing else, GUARANTEEs you will survive a violent
> attack.
Yeah, that is why none of our soldiers ever die in Iraq, because their
possessions of guns ensures their survival. Sigh.
> Not bringing a gun to a violent attack WILL GUARNTEE you will not
survive.
Right, which is why I'm dead. (Sarcasm intended).
> The whole key here is, NO GUN CONTROL. Those that want them should have
I'm not going to argue this one. We have a 2nd Amendment. Whether it
is a good idea or not, it's there and should be obeyed.
> them (criminals do), those that do not want them, do not have to
have. In
> CCW states, the majority of the people who are not CCW, are getting some
> effect from the small number who do carry. Criminals are more selective
> when they know their potential victim has the right to carry.
That is a nice theory, but the actual results do not seem to bear that
out. COW states have much higher levels of gun violence than non-COW
states (the much-heralded "improvement" in crime figures in those
states is part of a nationwide improvement, but relative to non-COW
states the improvement has been zero, zilch, nada). The fact is that
criminals are criminals because, for the most part, they are *STUPID*.
They don't consider shit like the possibility of getting killed by
firearms-bearing civilians. I've dealt with criminals in an
institutional environment, and the whole cause and effect thingy just
goes *whoosh* right over their head. Indeed, that's one of the things
we try to drill into them, that the treatment they receive in life
depends on what they do. We don't succeed very often.
, "monte
> > quint" wrote:
> > > You, "being the victim of gun violence" should have some special
> > > insight.
> > >
> > > Were you a "clear headed negotiator" before the violence or
after and
> > > what good did the "negotiating" do you?
> > >
> > > Having seen some small amount of violence and its results firmly
believe
> > > a gun in my hand is far preferable to one at my head.
> >
> > Just out of curiousity, have you ever had a gun pointed at you? Do you
> > have any idea how you would respond in that situation? Have you ever
> > pointed a gun at someone in a violent situation? Do you have any idea
> > how accurately you could shoot it under those conditions?
> >
> > I say this because police officers are actually trained in how to
> > respond to that situation, and police officer firearms accuracy is
> > legendary -- for being awful. Police officers are also actually
> > trained in shoot/don't shoot situations -- and still occasionally
> > manage to shoot people like Amadou Diallo, who was guilty of nothing
> > more than standing in a darkened foyer. And despite the fact that they
> > fired 41 shots at him at point blank range (less than 10 feet away),
> > less than half the bullets (19) actually hit him.
> >
> > Frankly, I doubt my ability to a) accurately discern a threat in time
> > to clear a weapon in a way that would make any difference, and b)
> > actually hit what I'm aiming at when the adrenalin is pumping. As far
> > as negotiating skills go, you never hear about the school shootings
> > that did NOT happen because the kid got talked down. My response to
> > those situations was always to get very, very quiet then start talking
> > in a very calm and rational voice. It almost doesn't matter what you
> > say in that situation, you just want to de-escalate from violence to
> > words. 99.9% of the time, it does work. The kid ends up getting talked
> > to the teacher break room (not the principal's office, there might be
> > other kids in and around the principal's office, you know there won't
> > be any in the teacher break room besides the kids are generally
> > interested in seeing what's in there), and voluntarily hands over the
> > gun then is turned over to the police shortly thereafter. I won't give
> > you details (federal law protects student privacy, state law protects
> > the privacy of juveniles in the juvenile justice system). Let's just
> > say that more guns in this situation, for the most part, would result
> > in many many more deaths than what currently happens, both because of
> > the incompetence of untrained civilians who can't hit what they shoot
> > at when the adrenalin is pumping (what, you think you can do better
> > than a trained cop? HAH!), and because it escalated a non-shooting
> > situation into a shooting situation.
> >
> > I find that people who get all macho about guns generally haven't had
> > one aimed at them or had to aim them at someone. When you're in that
> > situation, you become very serious indeed.
> >
> > Anyhow, get on back to your gun control discussion, I won't get
> > involved in it. I just wanted to address the notion that "a gun in
> > hand is better than one at the head." Real life just doesn't work that
> > way, unlike the fantasies that so many people who think with their
> > balls have built around themselves as some gigantic John Wayne figure
> > who will shoot bad guys dead with one bullet to the head. Real life is
> > that you don't know the bad guy is a bad guy until the gun is already
> > at your head, and at that point a gun in hand just gets you dead.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> James Morrow Sr
> Union, MO
> '00' RT + dual plug + Bunkhouse
> '00' BUSA + 15hp
> '05' KLR650 + big fun factor
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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