nklr restaurants?

mark ward · Post by **mark ward** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:19 pm

OOPS I stand corrected Martin I meant to say avoid "GRABBING" the front brake. Yes I do use it on dirt, but as said above, More the rear , and ease on the front, for you will (as said) lock it up, and SLIDE. There for, The stock front brake is more then enough for off pavement. & being the KLR is designed more for OFF Pavement, Like Jeep, and the V-strom is designed more for pavement, (Like a Ford Escape, It does it's job WELL, and is very easy ($-$$$) to MAKE IT YOUR OWN KLR. On Saturday, November 29, 2014 8:52 PM, "Buddy Eckles buddyeckles@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Mark, I agree with Martin. In my off road riding days of yore, we learned to use both brakes together for best results, especially long, slick downhills. I learned to apply the rear brake just a little before the front which seemed to lower the center of gravity, and then to moderate and control the slowing process with the front brake. Too much of either and you skid (loose traction). Then it's practice, practice, practice. Buddy "Faith is not about everything turning out OK; Faith is about being OK no matter how things turn out." To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com; nomad59@... From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2014 10:30:03 -0700 Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] errata Mark,you wrote--snip.OFF Pavement, you AVOID THE FRONT BRAKE.unsnip not to cause a flame war, but I think applying this advice 'as stated' needs some temperance added. = this is not a blanket statement for all levels of skill. Perhaps tempered to those who are inexperienced.Unfortunately, for most, bad judgment is how we gain 'experience'. may I add, OFF Pavement, you AVOID [locking] THE FRONT BRAKE...which is also good advice ON pavement as well.How do you know how much front brake to apply? Experience will teach you that...see para.#1 for experience explanation.If your bike spits you out after applying the front brake (cough), you applied to much. grin.and you just gained some experience. Some where in the past, I once read in a MC magazine article that suggested 60% of your stopping power is in the front brake.Accepting that premise--Avoiding the front brake off payment is giving up 60% of your braking ability. If you are going to give up that much braking ability, then you must ride more than 60% slower, which I doubt is an attribute of those who read this forum. shrug. At least, it is not an attribute of those in my posse. m1 On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 9:38 AM, mark ward nomad59@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: MONEY! If a works, why pay more for B.? Better shock, better seat BETTER etc etc. = MORE $$$$$ The KLR is know as a GREAT, "Base" Start with bike. You get it cheaper, then Most "Specialty" Bikes , and then YOU CAN ADD ON TO THE BASE, And build based on your need$ or De$ire$. More Pavement (HIGHER SPEEDS) Add the Larger Rotor.More DIRT & off road Smaller rotor OR Add a $HIELD to protect against the rocks, (SLOWER STOPPING OR YOU SLIDE!!!) OFF Pavement, you AVOID THE FRONT BRAKE. Even Touch that Fr Brake near loose dirt or SAND And you are in trouble.(Just ask John B. He was Behind me when I DID. OOPS. LOL) On Friday, November 28, 2014 11:04 PM, "Jeff Saline salinej1@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 22:13:00 -0500 (EST) "Stu klr650zen@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> writes: > > Braking leverage - Makes sense - then why aren't all rotors as > large a diameter as they can get away with - rhetorical... if the > same caliper can get a 150% improvement in braking without > "short-life"ing some other component - ??- just saying... > <><><><><><><> <><><><><><><> Stu, I'll suggest the rotor size might have a bit to do with the intended use of the machine. I know I've ridden my KLR in rocks and rough spots and a larger rotor might get dinged. Sometimes if I'm looking at bikes I'll see rotors attached to the rim of the wheel and the caliper is working from the inside of the rotor diameter. I'll bet those brakes work well but would not survive in a "KLR" environment. Best, Jeff Saline The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 . . . . . __________________________________________________________ Odd Trick Fights Diabetes "Unique" Proven Method To Control Blood Sugar In 3 Weeks. Watch Video. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5479457e310ab457e5143st02vuc

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GMac999 · Post by **GMac999** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:44 pm

LOL and while learning how much front brake to use, I tested how slick the dirt actually was. With different parts of my body.

GregM

[b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] [b]Sent:[/b] Saturday, November 29, 2014 7:53 PM [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com; mark ward [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [DSN_KLR650] errata

Mark, I agree with Martin. In my off road riding days of yore, we learned to use both brakes together for best results, especially long, slick downhills. I learned to apply the rear brake just a little before the front which seemed to lower the center of gravity, and then to moderate and control the slowing process with the front brake. Too much of either and you skid (loose traction). Then it's practice, practice, practice. Buddy "Faith is not about everything turning out OK; Faith is about being OK no matter how things turn out."

To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com; nomad59@... From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2014 10:30:03 -0700 Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] errata

Mark,

you wrote--

snip.

OFF Pavement, you AVOID THE FRONT BRAKE.

unsnip

not to cause a flame war, but I think applying this advice 'as stated' needs some temperance added. = this is not a blanket statement for all levels of skill. Perhaps tempered to those who are inexperienced.

Unfortunately, for most, bad judgment is how we gain 'experience'.

may I add,

OFF Pavement, you AVOID [locking] THE FRONT BRAKE...which is also good advice ON pavement as well.

How do you know how much front brake to apply? Experience will teach you that...see para.#1 for experience explanation.

If your bike spits you out after applying the front brake (cough), you applied to much. grin.

and you just gained some experience.

Some where in the past, I once read in a MC magazine article that suggested 60% of your stopping power is in the front brake.

Accepting that premise--

Avoiding the front brake off payment is giving up 60% of your braking ability.

If you are going to give up that much braking ability, then you must ride more than 60% slower,

which I doubt is an attribute of those who read this forum. shrug.

At least, it is not an attribute of those in my posse.

m1

On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 9:38 AM, mark ward nomad59@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

MONEY! If a works, why pay more for B.?

Better shock, better seat BETTER etc etc. = MORE $$$$$

The KLR is know as a GREAT, "Base" Start with bike.

You get it cheaper, then Most "Specialty" Bikes , and then YOU CAN ADD ON TO THE BASE, And build based on your need$ or De$ire$.

More Pavement (HIGHER SPEEDS) Add the Larger Rotor.

More DIRT & off road Smaller rotor OR Add a $HIELD to protect against the rocks, (SLOWER STOPPING OR YOU SLIDE!!!)

OFF Pavement, you AVOID THE FRONT BRAKE.

Even Touch that Fr Brake near loose dirt or SAND And you are in trouble.

(Just ask John B. He was Behind me when I DID. OOPS. LOL)

On Friday, November 28, 2014 11:04 PM, "Jeff Saline salinej1@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 22:13:00 -0500 (EST) "Stu klr650zen@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> writes: > > Braking leverage - Makes sense - then why aren't all rotors as > large a diameter as they can get away with - rhetorical... if the > same caliper can get a 150% improvement in braking without > "short-life"ing some other component - ??- just saying... > <><><><><><><> <><><><><><><> Stu, I'll suggest the rotor size might have a bit to do with the intended use of the machine. I know I've ridden my KLR in rocks and rough spots and a larger rotor might get dinged. Sometimes if I'm looking at bikes I'll see rotors attached to the rim of the wheel and the caliper is working from the inside of the rotor diameter. I'll bet those brakes work well but would not survive in a "KLR" environment. Best, Jeff Saline The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 . . . . . __________________________________________________________ Odd Trick Fights Diabetes "Unique" Proven Method To Control Blood Sugar In 3 Weeks. Watch Video. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5479457e310ab457e5143st02vuc

Martin Earl · Post by **Martin Earl** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:59 pm

GMac- That is the fine line between bad judgment and experience. = how far you slide AFTER the bike spits you over the handle bars.So far, I have managed not to experience the bike landing on me...better than the bean-heads on the ATV's, ATAV's which frequently land on a guy/gal after it rolls over. I used to frequently pick up (helo medevac) freshly-experienced ATV riders in the KY strip mines. sigh. = job security for me...and for the rest of the story--if you are a slow learner in the judgment vs experience department, it is VERY wise keep your health insurance premiums paid-in-full.so far, I got my insurance premium 'monies' worth...how about you?m1

On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 7:44 PM, 'GMac999' gmac999@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: LOL and while learning how much front brake to use, I tested how slick the dirt actually was. With different parts of my body.[u][/u][u][/u]
[u][/u] [u][/u]
GregM[u][/u][u][/u]
[u][/u] [u][/u]
[b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] [b]Sent:[/b] Saturday, November 29, 2014 7:53 PM [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com; mark ward [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [DSN_KLR650] errata[u][/u][u][/u]
[u][/u] [u][/u]
[u][/u][u][/u]
Mark, I agree with Martin. In my off road riding days of yore, we learned to use both brakes together for best results, especially long, slick downhills. I learned to apply the rear brake just a little before the front which seemed to lower the center of gravity, and then to moderate and control the slowing process with the front brake. Too much of either and you skid (loose traction). Then it's practice, practice, practice. Buddy "Faith is not about everything turning out OK; Faith is about being OK no matter how things turn out." [u][/u][u][/u]
To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com; nomad59@... From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2014 10:30:03 -0700 Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] errata [u][/u][u][/u]
[u][/u] [u][/u]
Mark,[u][/u][u][/u]
you wrote--[u][/u][u][/u]
snip.[u][/u][u][/u]
OFF Pavement, you AVOID THE FRONT BRAKE.[u][/u][u][/u]
unsnip[u][/u][u][/u]
[u][/u] [u][/u]
not to cause a flame war, but I think applying this advice 'as stated' needs some temperance added. = this is not a blanket statement for all levels of skill. Perhaps tempered to those who are inexperienced.[u][/u][u][/u]
Unfortunately, for most, bad judgment is how we gain 'experience'. [u][/u][u][/u]
[u][/u] [u][/u]
may I add, [u][/u][u][/u]
[u][/u] [u][/u]
OFF Pavement, you AVOID [locking] THE FRONT BRAKE...which is also good advice ON pavement as well.[u][/u][u][/u]
How do you know how much front brake to apply? Experience will teach you that...see para.#1 for experience explanation.[u][/u][u][/u]
If your bike spits you out after applying the front brake (cough), you applied to much. grin.[u][/u][u][/u]
and you just gained some experience.[u][/u][u][/u]
[u][/u] [u][/u]
Some where in the past, I once read in a MC magazine article that suggested 60% of your stopping power is in the front brake.[u][/u][u][/u]
Accepting that premise--[u][/u][u][/u]
Avoiding the front brake off payment is giving up 60% of your braking ability.[u][/u][u][/u]
[u][/u] [u][/u]
If you are going to give up that much braking ability, then you must ride more than 60% slower, [u][/u][u][/u]
which I doubt is an attribute of those who read this forum. shrug. [u][/u][u][/u]
At least, it is not an attribute of those in my posse. [u][/u][u][/u]
[u][/u] [u][/u]
m1[u][/u][u][/u]
[u][/u] [u][/u]
On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 9:38 AM, mark ward nomad59@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:[u][/u][u][/u]
[u][/u] [u][/u]
MONEY! If a works, why pay more for B.?[u][/u][u][/u]
[u][/u] [u][/u]
Better shock, better seat BETTER etc etc. = MORE $$$$$[u][/u][u][/u]
[u][/u] [u][/u]
The KLR is know as a GREAT, "Base" Start with bike.[u][/u][u][/u]
[u][/u] [u][/u]
You get it cheaper, then Most "Specialty" Bikes , and then YOU CAN ADD ON TO THE BASE, And build based on your need$ or De$ire$. [u][/u][u][/u]
[u][/u] [u][/u]
More Pavement (HIGHER SPEEDS) Add the Larger Rotor.[u][/u][u][/u]
More DIRT & off road Smaller rotor OR Add a $HIELD to protect against the rocks, (SLOWER STOPPING OR YOU SLIDE!!!)[u][/u][u][/u]
[u][/u] [u][/u]
OFF Pavement, you AVOID THE FRONT BRAKE.[u][/u][u][/u]
[u][/u] [u][/u]
Even Touch that Fr Brake near loose dirt or SAND And you are in trouble.[u][/u][u][/u]
(Just ask John B. He was Behind me when I DID. OOPS. LOL)[u][/u][u][/u]
[u][/u] [u][/u]
On Friday, November 28, 2014 11:04 PM, "Jeff Saline salinej1@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:[u][/u][u][/u]
[u][/u] [u][/u]
[u][/u][u][/u]
On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 22:13:00 -0500 (EST) "Stu klr650zen@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> writes: > > Braking leverage - Makes sense - then why aren't all rotors as > large a diameter as they can get away with - rhetorical... if the > same caliper can get a 150% improvement in braking without > "short-life"ing some other component - ??- just saying... > <><><><><><><> <><><><><><><> Stu, I'll suggest the rotor size might have a bit to do with the intended use of the machine. I know I've ridden my KLR in rocks and rough spots and a larger rotor might get dinged. Sometimes if I'm looking at bikes I'll see rotors attached to the rim of the wheel and the caliper is working from the inside of the rotor diameter. I'll bet those brakes work well but would not survive in a "KLR" environment. Best, Jeff Saline The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 . . . . . __________________________________________________________ Odd Trick Fights Diabetes "Unique" Proven Method To Control Blood Sugar In 3 Weeks. Watch Video. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5479457e310ab457e5143st02vuc[u][/u][u][/u]
[u][/u] [u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

[u][/u][u][/u]

GMac999 · Post by **GMac999** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:53 pm

Always keep those premiums paid up. I ve used them several times, but only once in a situation like your last use of your own services.

A couple of mine were road rash type, even with ATGATT. I found that older leathers didn t hold up to the broken slate and granite like the new ones do after lowsiding. Sliced a couple of sets up into ribbons when I was young and dumb. Along with broken ribs, collar bones, forearm, etc.

I ride a whole lot slower now and finally realized that I couldn t handle anything that came up. Just took me a couple ambulance rides, 4 wheeled not eggbeater style, before I learned it.

GregM

[b]From:[/b] Martin Earl [mailto:mjearl4@...] [b]Sent:[/b] Saturday, November 29, 2014 9:00 PM [b]To:[/b] DSN KLR650; GMac999 [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] errata

GMac-

That is the fine line between bad judgment and experience. = how far you slide AFTER the bike spits you over the handle bars.

So far, I have managed not to experience the bike landing on me...better than the bean-heads on the ATV's, ATAV's which frequently land on a guy/gal after it rolls over. I used to frequently pick up (helo medevac) freshly-experienced ATV riders in the KY strip mines. sigh. = job security for me...

and for the rest of the story--

if you are a slow learner in the judgment vs experience department, it is VERY wise keep your health insurance premiums paid-in-full.

so far,

I got my insurance premium 'monies' worth...how about you?

m1

On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 7:44 PM, 'GMac999' gmac999@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

LOL and while learning how much front brake to use, I tested how slick the dirt actually was. With different parts of my body.

GregM

[b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] [b]Sent:[/b] Saturday, November 29, 2014 7:53 PM [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com; mark ward [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [DSN_KLR650] errata

Mark, I agree with Martin. In my off road riding days of yore, we learned to use both brakes together for best results, especially long, slick downhills. I learned to apply the rear brake just a little before the front which seemed to lower the center of gravity, and then to moderate and control the slowing process with the front brake. Too much of either and you skid (loose traction). Then it's practice, practice, practice. Buddy "Faith is not about everything turning out OK; Faith is about being OK no matter how things turn out."

To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com; nomad59@... From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2014 10:30:03 -0700 Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] errata

Mark,

you wrote--

snip.

OFF Pavement, you AVOID THE FRONT BRAKE.

unsnip

not to cause a flame war, but I think applying this advice 'as stated' needs some temperance added. = this is not a blanket statement for all levels of skill. Perhaps tempered to those who are inexperienced.

Unfortunately, for most, bad judgment is how we gain 'experience'.

may I add,

OFF Pavement, you AVOID [locking] THE FRONT BRAKE...which is also good advice ON pavement as well.

How do you know how much front brake to apply? Experience will teach you that...see para.#1 for experience explanation.

If your bike spits you out after applying the front brake (cough), you applied to much. grin.

and you just gained some experience.

Some where in the past, I once read in a MC magazine article that suggested 60% of your stopping power is in the front brake.

Accepting that premise--

Avoiding the front brake off payment is giving up 60% of your braking ability.

If you are going to give up that much braking ability, then you must ride more than 60% slower,

which I doubt is an attribute of those who read this forum. shrug.

At least, it is not an attribute of those in my posse.

m1

On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 9:38 AM, mark ward nomad59@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

MONEY! If a works, why pay more for B.?

Better shock, better seat BETTER etc etc. = MORE $$$$$

The KLR is know as a GREAT, "Base" Start with bike.

You get it cheaper, then Most "Specialty" Bikes , and then YOU CAN ADD ON TO THE BASE, And build based on your need$ or De$ire$.

More Pavement (HIGHER SPEEDS) Add the Larger Rotor.

More DIRT & off road Smaller rotor OR Add a $HIELD to protect against the rocks, (SLOWER STOPPING OR YOU SLIDE!!!)

OFF Pavement, you AVOID THE FRONT BRAKE.

Even Touch that Fr Brake near loose dirt or SAND And you are in trouble.

(Just ask John B. He was Behind me when I DID. OOPS. LOL)

On Friday, November 28, 2014 11:04 PM, "Jeff Saline salinej1@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 22:13:00 -0500 (EST) "Stu klr650zen@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> writes: > > Braking leverage - Makes sense - then why aren't all rotors as > large a diameter as they can get away with - rhetorical... if the > same caliper can get a 150% improvement in braking without > "short-life"ing some other component - ??- just saying... > <><><><><><><> <><><><><><><> Stu, I'll suggest the rotor size might have a bit to do with the intended use of the machine. I know I've ridden my KLR in rocks and rough spots and a larger rotor might get dinged. Sometimes if I'm looking at bikes I'll see rotors attached to the rim of the wheel and the caliper is working from the inside of the rotor diameter. I'll bet those brakes work well but would not survive in a "KLR" environment. Best, Jeff Saline The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 . . . . . __________________________________________________________ Odd Trick Fights Diabetes "Unique" Proven Method To Control Blood Sugar In 3 Weeks. Watch Video. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5479457e310ab457e5143st02vuc

SniperOne · Post by **SniperOne** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:49 pm

I rarely weigh in on these long threads, and will only suggest the use of front braking technique used by most desert (and other) singletrack riders. Learn to ride with 2 fingers (index and middle) on the clutch lever and 1 finger (index) on the brake lever. This will take time, be patient with yourself and just keep at it. This does a few things for the rider in the soft or technical stuff. First it opens the hand and helps overcome some of the white knuckle adventures on the grip. (Ride relaxed) Second it gives the immediate ability to feather the clutch when you're needing the sweet spot of traction. Third (related to this thread) if you are using only the index finger as far up on the brake lever (closest to the hinge) as you can reasonably rest it, it is unlikely you will grab a handful of front brake when something causes you to pinch a crease in the seat. Get on some soft ground and practice trying to make the front tire lock up and skid straight forward at low speeds. Increase speed a bit if you need to and remember to get your weight back. Soon as it skids a little, let go of the front brake. You will note how difficult it is to grab too much front brake with only the index finger. Advanced technique - for those who have practiced the above enough to be comfortable/confident with it: When you go into a turn on a sandy singletrack, just before the apex use your index finger to apply only light pressure to the front tire WHILE you are rolling gently into the throttle. Use the feathering of the clutch to adjust traction during this maneuver - it is also assumed you are weighting the outside peg while doing this. The front tire will be getting loaded from the small down force of braking as the front suspension compresses a little. Rolling into the throttle will help the rear tire's traction (weighting the outside peg) cause the front to cut its groove through the soft stuff without washing out. Randy Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message --------From: "'GMac999' gmac999@... [DSN_KLR650]" Date:11/29/2014 8:54 PM (GMT-07:00) To: 'Martin Earl' ,'DSN KLR650' Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] errata Always keep those premiums paid up. I ve used them several times, but only once in a situation like your last use of your own services.

A couple of mine were road rash type, even with ATGATT. I found that older leathers didn t hold up to the broken slate and granite like the new ones do after lowsiding. Sliced a couple of sets up into ribbons when I was young and dumb. Along with broken ribs, collar bones, forearm, etc.

I ride a whole lot slower now and finally realized that I couldn t handle anything that came up. Just took me a couple ambulance rides, 4 wheeled not eggbeater style, before I learned it.

GregM

[b]From:[/b] Martin Earl [mailto:mjearl4@...] [b]Sent:[/b] Saturday, November 29, 2014 9:00 PM [b]To:[/b] DSN KLR650; GMac999 [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] errata

GMac-

That is the fine line between bad judgment and experience. = how far you slide AFTER the bike spits you over the handle bars.

So far, I have managed not to experience the bike landing on me...better than the bean-heads on the ATV's, ATAV's which frequently land on a guy/gal after it rolls over. I used to frequently pick up (helo medevac) freshly-experienced ATV riders in the KY strip mines. sigh. = job security for me...

and for the rest of the story--

if you are a slow learner in the judgment vs experience department, it is VERY wise keep your health insurance premiums paid-in-full.

so far,

I got my insurance premium 'monies' worth...how about you?

m1

On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 7:44 PM, 'GMac999' gmac999@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

LOL and while learning how much front brake to use, I tested how slick the dirt actually was. With different parts of my body.

GregM

[b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] [b]Sent:[/b] Saturday, November 29, 2014 7:53 PM [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com; mark ward [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [DSN_KLR650] errata

Mark, I agree with Martin. In my off road riding days of yore, we learned to use both brakes together for best results, especially long, slick downhills. I learned to apply the rear brake just a little before the front which seemed to lower the center of gravity, and then to moderate and control the slowing process with the front brake. Too much of either and you skid (loose traction). Then it's practice, practice, practice. Buddy "Faith is not about everything turning out OK; Faith is about being OK no matter how things turn out."

To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com; nomad59@... From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2014 10:30:03 -0700 Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] errata

Mark,

you wrote--

snip.

OFF Pavement, you AVOID THE FRONT BRAKE.

unsnip

not to cause a flame war, but I think applying this advice 'as stated' needs some temperance added. = this is not a blanket statement for all levels of skill. Perhaps tempered to those who are inexperienced.

Unfortunately, for most, bad judgment is how we gain 'experience'.

may I add,

OFF Pavement, you AVOID [locking] THE FRONT BRAKE...which is also good advice ON pavement as well.

How do you know how much front brake to apply? Experience will teach you that...see para.#1 for experience explanation.

If your bike spits you out after applying the front brake (cough), you applied to much. grin.

and you just gained some experience.

Some where in the past, I once read in a MC magazine article that suggested 60% of your stopping power is in the front brake.

Accepting that premise--

Avoiding the front brake off payment is giving up 60% of your braking ability.

If you are going to give up that much braking ability, then you must ride more than 60% slower,

which I doubt is an attribute of those who read this forum. shrug.

At least, it is not an attribute of those in my posse.

m1

On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 9:38 AM, mark ward nomad59@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

MONEY! If a works, why pay more for B.?

Better shock, better seat BETTER etc etc. = MORE $$$$$

The KLR is know as a GREAT, "Base" Start with bike.

You get it cheaper, then Most "Specialty" Bikes , and then YOU CAN ADD ON TO THE BASE, And build based on your need$ or De$ire$.

More Pavement (HIGHER SPEEDS) Add the Larger Rotor.

More DIRT & off road Smaller rotor OR Add a $HIELD to protect against the rocks, (SLOWER STOPPING OR YOU SLIDE!!!)

OFF Pavement, you AVOID THE FRONT BRAKE.

Even Touch that Fr Brake near loose dirt or SAND And you are in trouble.

(Just ask John B. He was Behind me when I DID. OOPS. LOL)

On Friday, November 28, 2014 11:04 PM, "Jeff Saline salinej1@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 22:13:00 -0500 (EST) "Stu klr650zen@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> writes: > > Braking leverage - Makes sense - then why aren't all rotors as > large a diameter as they can get away with - rhetorical... if the > same caliper can get a 150% improvement in braking without > "short-life"ing some other component - ??- just saying... > <><><><><><><> <><><><><><><> Stu, I'll suggest the rotor size might have a bit to do with the intended use of the machine. I know I've ridden my KLR in rocks and rough spots and a larger rotor might get dinged. Sometimes if I'm looking at bikes I'll see rotors attached to the rim of the wheel and the caliper is working from the inside of the rotor diameter. I'll bet those brakes work well but would not survive in a "KLR" environment. Best, Jeff Saline The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 . . . . . __________________________________________________________ Odd Trick Fights Diabetes "Unique" Proven Method To Control Blood Sugar In 3 Weeks. Watch Video. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5479457e310ab457e5143st02vuc

Posted by: "GMac999" Reply via web post GMac999@...?subject=RE%3A%20%5BDSN_KLR650%5D%20errata DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5BDSN_KLR650%5D%20errata Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (20)

Norm Keller · Post by **Norm Keller** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:50 am

#ygrps-yiv-329493941 BLOCKQUOTE.ygrps-yiv-329493941cite { PADDING-LEFT:10px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;BORDER-LEFT:#cccccc 1px solid;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-329493941 BLOCKQUOTE.ygrps-yiv-329493941cite2 { PADDING-TOP:0px;PADDING-LEFT:10px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;BORDER-LEFT:#cccccc 1px solid;MARGIN-TOP:3px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-329493941 .ygrps-yiv-329493941plain PRE { FONT-SIZE:100%;FONT-FAMILY:monospace;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-STYLE:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-329493941 .ygrps-yiv-329493941plain TT { FONT-SIZE:100%;FONT-FAMILY:monospace;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-STYLE:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-329493941 A IMG { BORDER-TOP:0px;BORDER-RIGHT:0px;BORDER-BOTTOM:0px;BORDER-LEFT:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-329493941 .ygrps-yiv-329493941plain PRE { FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;} #ygrps-yiv-329493941 .ygrps-yiv-329493941plain TT { FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;} #ygrps-yiv-329493941 { FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;} Greg posted: "LOL and while learning how much front brake to use, I tested how slick the dirt actually was. With different parts of my body. GregM" Most riders fail to properly investigate ground conditions while riding. Nothing quite as revealing as to get down there for a close look.

Norm Keller · Post by **Norm Keller** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:27 pm

#ygrps-yiv-150594295 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-150594295cite {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;} #ygrps-yiv-150594295 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-150594295cite2 {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;margin-top:3px;padding-top:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-150594295 .ygrps-yiv-150594295plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-150594295 .ygrps-yiv-150594295plain tt {font-family:monospace;font-size:100%;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-150594295 a img {border:0px;}#ygrps-yiv-150594295 {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;} #ygrps-yiv-150594295 .ygrps-yiv-150594295plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-150594295 .ygrps-yiv-150594295plain tt {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;} While contemplating Randy's well considered post regarding techniques, I was forced to reflect as to the degree which some of these techniques can be applied to a KLR. Clearly, these techniques are valid and necessary to competent riding so am in no way disputing any of them. What I do hope is that others will engage as to how the stock KLR/KLR controls lend themselves to these techniques. Secondarily, what have others found to be useful modifications/adaptations to support the application of these techniques. It would be most interesting to discuss each point of technique in this light, IMO. Just to begin, and from a general perspective: Can you lock up your front brake on a bare gravel road? How about bare pavement? Are you able to pull the brake lever tight to the grip with your hand in your normal riding position? Can you apply effective off road braking with only one or two fingers? Can you operate/feather the clutch for sufficient time in off road? What improvements/modifications have you done which improved the above? IME, the KLR controls are as clumsy and coarse as is the rest of the bike design. I love the silly things but have no illusions that NASA is contemplating interplanetary travel based on a KLR. My MX bikes have had brakes and clutch action which was "orgasmic" in comparison but have been able to live with the KLR controls and some improvement. I keep thinking of converting the clutch to hydraulic.... Come on, guys, it's winter. Let's hear some of the wisdom.

John Biccum · Post by **John Biccum** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:21 pm

One thing that it took me a while to learn is that the KLR clutch is massively overbuilt. With that epiphany came the willingness to use the clutch more frequently and for longer durations under power in the friction zone. That technique made me much more in control at low speeds and challenging conditions. For one example we were riding UP stair steps in Moab at a walking pace, using the throttle and clutch in harmony with lots of time spent in the friction zone. The KLRs were accomplishing things I thought were the exclusive domain of trials bikes. When I pulled the clutch discs at 70K miles I found them identical in thickness to the new set I planned to install. I needed to replace the clutch springs but the discs were as new. From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 10:27 AM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: errata While contemplating Randy's well considered post regarding techniques, I was forced to reflect as to the degree which some of these techniques can be applied to a KLR. Clearly, these techniques are valid and necessary to competent riding so am in no way disputing any of them. What I do hope is that others will engage as to how the stock KLR/KLR controls lend themselves to these techniques. Secondarily, what have others found to be useful modifications/adaptations to support the application of these techniques. It would be most interesting to discuss each point of technique in this light, IMO. Just to begin, and from a general perspective: Can you lock up your front brake on a bare gravel road? How about bare pavement? Are you able to pull the brake lever tight to the grip with your hand in your normal riding position? Can you apply effective off road braking with only one or two fingers? Can you operate/feather the clutch for sufficient time in off road? What improvements/modifications have you done which improved the above? IME, the KLR controls are as clumsy and coarse as is the rest of the bike design. I love the silly things but have no illusions that NASA is contemplating interplanetary travel based on a KLR. My MX bikes have had brakes and clutch action which was "orgasmic" in comparison but have been able to live with the KLR controls and some improvement. I keep thinking of converting the clutch to hydraulic.... Come on, guys, it's winter. Let's hear some of the wisdom.

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SniperOne · Post by **SniperOne** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:43 pm

Egads Norm, with all the thumb boarding I may not be able to clutch or brake for a week...LOL. Anyway, my answer to the list of questions is yes, and some of my bike/tire combos are near impossible to lock up on pavement with the 1 finger technique. I must confess I use the middle digit on the brake when sitting and index when standing. Rides I use these techniques with:06 DRZ 435 wearing D606 or Kenya Trackmasters 00 KLR 650 wearing D606 or K 60 Scout, extended clutch lever on housing from Fred, SS front brake line, Kawasaki pads 09 KLR 650 wearing K 60 Scout, stock brakes/levers/lines/rotors/Kawasaki pads, extended clutch lever on housing from Fred 2010 KTM 990 Adventure stock everything, wearing Conti street tires 2011 Tiger 800xc stock, wearing K 60 Scout 2008 BMW GSA stock, wearing TKC80. I adjust all my bikes' controls the same. Bars are rolled forward till the rising section of the bar is aligned with the rake of the front forks. All hand controls are rolled forward on the bars till my wrists are straight in the standing attack position (1-2 fingers on the levers). My foot controls are set that in the standing attack position the peg is centered on my arch and each foot is just hovering over the respective control lever. In standing the knees are bent, lower back is arched, head is up, elbows are up, focus is where I want the bike to go - not where I am. When I go into a turn (hard or soft surface) I briefly weight the inside peg which causes the bike to drop into the turn. I will let off the rear brake if i've been dragging it to scrub off speed. Use some pulsing of the index finger on the front break to find the sweet spot of pressure and hold it there until i'm out of the turn. At about the same place where i add front brake (nearing apex) i also move the outside knee into the side of the tank and use that leverage to weight the outside peg and counter balance with my butt. Weight on the outside peg I hold until the turn is complete. About when I let go of the rear brake is where I start rolling into the throttle (note I did not say open it up!) and will continue rolling into it through the turn. If you feel something getting loose under you in the turn, feather the clutch to avoid chopping the throttle and standing on the rear brake. As I originally said, this is an advanced technique for AFTER someone gets comfortable using one finger on the brake and two on the clutch. I know of no other way to say this: "FEEL" Each point of the above should be practiced individually until someone is comfortable doing them mechanically (and visually in the thinking). Then one day you'll be trying to put it all together on a trail and it will just happen - you will FEEL it and in that moment you'll have it fixed in your box of skills. This one technique is hard to analyze and articulate; it's easier to walk someone through it on a trail. Let's not forget I started it all with just simply using one digit on the brake so someone could get some stopping power from it without the fear of flying handle over spout past the windshield. Thanks for the distraction Norm...otherwise I might have had to read the Touratech catalog while waiting on the laundry. Randy Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message --------From: "'Norm Keller' normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650]" Date:11/30/2014 11:26 AM (GMT-07:00) To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: errata While contemplating Randy's well considered post regarding techniques, I was forced to reflect as to the degree which some of these techniques can be applied to a KLR. Clearly, these techniques are valid and necessary to competent riding so am in no way disputing any of them. What I do hope is that others will engage as to how the stock KLR/KLR controls lend themselves to these techniques. Secondarily, what have others found to be useful modifications/adaptations to support the application of these techniques. It would be most interesting to discuss each point of technique in this light, IMO. Just to begin, and from a general perspective: Can you lock up your front brake on a bare gravel road? How about bare pavement? Are you able to pull the brake lever tight to the grip with your hand in your normal riding position? Can you apply effective off road braking with only one or two fingers? Can you operate/feather the clutch for sufficient time in off road? What improvements/modifications have you done which improved the above? IME, the KLR controls are as clumsy and coarse as is the rest of the bike design. I love the silly things but have no illusions that NASA is contemplating interplanetary travel based on a KLR. My MX bikes have had brakes and clutch action which was "orgasmic" in comparison but have been able to live with the KLR controls and some improvement. I keep thinking of converting the clutch to hydraulic.... Come on, guys, it's winter. Let's hear some of the wisdom.

revmaaatin · Post by **revmaaatin** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:58 pm

Investigating the dirt...up close. This speaks to the 'riders brief', I say, 'give the guy in front of you enough room to fall down and NOT get ran over by the rider trailing him.' ...you know, the guy on the ground getting some experience. some listen, some don't. Those who listen, are invited back. m1.

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