broke down in b.c./alaska bush

[Ronald Criswell]

I have always filled mine according to what was his name ..Elden Carl I think (Fred knows) 2 quarts and 19 ounces if I remember correctly (above and beyond the site glass top mark). I never have to add oil. I constantly run at 5000 or 5200 rpm for hours on end using Rotella 15W 40W and at 58,000 miles???? I never shy away from a speedy get away at red light turning green. ???? And I never add oil between 3.000 mile changes. I hardly ever look at the site glass as it is always about the same. Criswell On Aug 6, 2014, at 12:26 PM, Martin Earl mjearl4@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi John, So, in your experience, the bike's oil level does not change as long as you are between the min/max lines?Regardless how you ride the bike?If that is true, it is not the norm most people have reported. smile. I would suggest that filling the crankcase with 2.5L is not the problem, it is the high rpm's. I would also suggest that even if it is between the fill marks, and you run the higher rpms, it will continue to 'consume oil', be it burn or blow it out; how is not important, as it (oil) will be gone and your engine will be in danger from loss of lubrication and cooling from low oil volume. Numerous folks over the years have fragged their engine after flogging the engine endlessly at higher rpm's and failing to properly monitor their oil at each fueling; one such unfortunate fellow reported adding 2 qts of oil to get it to the Max line after such an extended run . yikesThat poor bike...I may have bought spare parts from it later. shrug. I also note that the oil consumption may increase slightly towards the end of the oil change interval.m1 On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 6:06 AM, John Triplett johntripwire@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Same here. When I have tried the full 2.5L fill in my 07 it is well above the glass and will spit oil out of the breather tube, especially at higher rpm until it's happy at a level just above the sight glass. I just fill it to there now. John T.

[mark ward]

Sight Glass My K1200lt has alot of issues after I filled with 4 quarts as told by BMW & the Book.  When I filled the last time by the Sight Glass it took a pint+ less. My vote is SIGHT GLASS ALWAYS On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 4:18 PM, "Ronald Criswell roncriswell2@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  I have always filled mine according to what was his name ..Elden Carl I think (Fred knows) 2 quarts and 19 ounces if I remember correctly (above and beyond the site glass top mark). I never have to add oil. I constantly run at 5000 or 5200 rpm for hours on end using Rotella 15W 40W and at 58,000 miles???? I never shy away from a speedy get away at red light turning green. ???? And I never add oil between 3.000 mile changes. I hardly ever look at the site glass as it is always about the same. Criswell On Aug 6, 2014, at 12:26 PM, Martin Earl mjearl4@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hi John, So, in your experience, the bike's oil level does not change as long as you are between the min/max lines?Regardless how you ride the bike?If that is true, it is not the norm most people have reported. smile. I would suggest that filling the crankcase with 2.5L is not the problem, it is the high rpm's. I would also suggest that even if it is between the fill marks, and you run the higher rpms, it will continue to 'consume oil', be it burn or blow it out; how is not important, as it (oil) will be gone and your engine will be in danger from loss of lubrication and cooling from low oil volume. Numerous folks over the years have fragged their engine after flogging the engine endlessly at higher rpm's and failing to properly monitor their oil at each fueling; one such unfortunate fellow reported adding 2 qts of oil to get it to the Max line after such an extended run . yikesThat poor bike...I may have bought spare parts from it later. shrug. I also note that the oil consumption may increase slightly towards the end of the oil change interval.m1 On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 6:06 AM, John Triplett johntripwire@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Same here. When I have tried the full 2.5L fill in my 07 it is well above the glass and will spit oil out of the breather tube, especially at higher rpm until it's happy at a level just above the sight glass. I just fill it to there now. John T.

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[mark ward]

ANOTHER OIL THREAD????  Like an old movie, NEW people have not, seen it yet, so to them it's a NEW LEARNING TIME. Kind of like Freshmen in High school, The Seniors shake there heads at some of the Questions they ask, or get wrong, or sometimes even bring up new BETTER Ideas. (hence rubber wheels instead of wooden) It's the main reason I joined this group is to learn something I don't already know (ALOT!!!) & improve upon the knowledge I do have.  Note: I do not use Caps to yell.  On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 5:20 PM, "mark ward nomad59@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  Sight Glass My K1200lt has alot of issues after I filled with 4 quarts as told by BMW & the Book.  When I filled the last time by the Sight Glass it took a pint+ less. My vote is SIGHT GLASS ALWAYS On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 4:18 PM, "Ronald Criswell roncriswell2@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   I have always filled mine according to what was his name ..Elden Carl I think (Fred knows) 2 quarts and 19 ounces if I remember correctly (above and beyond the site glass top mark). I never have to add oil. I constantly run at 5000 or 5200 rpm for hours on end using Rotella 15W 40W and at 58,000 miles???? I never shy away from a speedy get away at red light turning green. ???? And I never add oil between 3.000 mile changes. I hardly ever look at the site glass as it is always about the same. Criswell On Aug 6, 2014, at 12:26 PM, Martin Earl mjearl4@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hi John, So, in your experience, the bike's oil level does not change as long as you are between the min/max lines?Regardless how you ride the bike?If that is true, it is not the norm most people have reported. smile. I would suggest that filling the crankcase with 2.5L is not the problem, it is the high rpm's. I would also suggest that even if it is between the fill marks, and you run the higher rpms, it will continue to 'consume oil', be it burn or blow it out; how is not important, as it (oil) will be gone and your engine will be in danger from loss of lubrication and cooling from low oil volume. Numerous folks over the years have fragged their engine after flogging the engine endlessly at higher rpm's and failing to properly monitor their oil at each fueling; one such unfortunate fellow reported adding 2 qts of oil to get it to the Max line after such an extended run . yikesThat poor bike...I may have bought spare parts from it later. shrug. I also note that the oil consumption may increase slightly towards the end of the oil change interval.m1 On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 6:06 AM, John Triplett johntripwire@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Same here. When I have tried the full 2.5L fill in my 07 it is well above the glass and will spit oil out of the breather tube, especially at higher rpm until it's happy at a level just above the sight glass. I just fill it to there now. John T.

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[ron criswell]

I like Jennifer's threads. Criswell Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 6, 2014, at 5:34 PM, "mark ward nomad59@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  ANOTHER OIL THREAD????  Like an old movie, NEW people have not, seen it yet, so to them it's a NEW LEARNING TIME. Kind of like Freshmen in High school, The Seniors shake there heads at some of the Questions they ask, or get wrong, or sometimes even bring up new BETTER Ideas. (hence rubber wheels instead of wooden) It's the main reason I joined this group is to learn something I don't already know (ALOT!!!) & improve upon the knowledge I do have.  Note: I do not use Caps to yell.  On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 5:20 PM, "mark ward nomad59@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   Sight Glass My K1200lt has alot of issues after I filled with 4 quarts as told by BMW & the Book.  When I filled the last time by the Sight Glass it took a pint+ less. My vote is SIGHT GLASS ALWAYS On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 4:18 PM, "Ronald Criswell roncriswell2@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   I have always filled mine according to what was his name ..Elden Carl I think (Fred knows) 2 quarts and 19 ounces if I remember correctly (above and beyond the site glass top mark). I never have to add oil. I constantly run at 5000 or 5200 rpm for hours on end using Rotella 15W 40W and at 58,000 miles???? I never shy away from a speedy get away at red light turning green. ???? And I never add oil between 3.000 mile changes. I hardly ever look at the site glass as it is always about the same. Criswell On Aug 6, 2014, at 12:26 PM, Martin Earl mjearl4@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hi John, So, in your experience, the bike's oil level does not change as long as you are between the min/max lines?Regardless how you ride the bike?If that is true, it is not the norm most people have reported. smile. I would suggest that filling the crankcase with 2.5L is not the problem, it is the high rpm's. I would also suggest that even if it is between the fill marks, and you run the higher rpms, it will continue to 'consume oil', be it burn or blow it out; how is not important, as it (oil) will be gone and your engine will be in danger from loss of lubrication and cooling from low oil volume. Numerous folks over the years have fragged their engine after flogging the engine endlessly at higher rpm's and failing to properly monitor their oil at each fueling; one such unfortunate fellow reported adding 2 qts of oil to get it to the Max line after such an extended run . yikesThat poor bike...I may have bought spare parts from it later. shrug. I also note that the oil consumption may increase slightly towards the end of the oil change interval.m1 On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 6:06 AM, John Triplett johntripwire@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Same here. When I have tried the full 2.5L fill in my 07 it is well above the glass and will spit oil out of the breather tube, especially at higher rpm until it's happy at a level just above the sight glass. I just fill it to there now. John T.

[Norm Keller]

Great appreciation of the real concerns regarding oil levels, John.

 

FWIW, a good rule of thumb with regards engine oil is that it should pour thinner at the oil drain than when new. As a general rule, oil will thin out over time as the viscosity index improvers will often gradually wear out making the oil a bit thinner. I expect this and watch for the effect. Having done at least thousands of oil changes over the last 54 years, it seems to match the expected.

 

On the other hand, if the oil is thicker, this is usually a sign that the oil is oxidizing which causes it to thicken. If see oil which is thicker than new at draining, it may be time to run an oil analysis or consider the service rating of the oil versus oil operating temperatures.

 

Others will point out that this is very qualitative but doesn't hurt to observe and consider. There are many other factors which can affect the apparent thickness of used oil from fuel dilution to sludge build-up.

 

My present KLR was purchased from a member of another group who had completed a 600 mile highway trip without checking the oil. He returned home and was fueling up when he thought to check the oil level. Nothing in the sight glass. He pour 2 litres into the sump before it was near to the top line, and on start-up he noticed a rapping noise which was apparently from the cam box area. Speculation and questions in the forum combined with a linked cell phone sound file brought many to conclude that he had wiped the cam bearings due to low oil.

 

I was not convinced but only because my hearing is bad and have never been able to diagnose by sound over the web. Seemed very likely so I offered to have a look if he would transport the bike the 80 miles to here. He as not equipped or allowed to do mechanical at his apartment so best I could do to help a university student. He was unable to do that and planned to buy another bike so asked his bottom line and bought the bike sight unseen. He said that he would sell for between $6 & 800 which would have encouraged an offer of $600 but offered to meet him 1/2 way at $700. I thought I could find a head or complete engine without going above the market value of the bike.

 

After purchase I was listening to the head knock and to avoid loosing position reference and perhaps banging my head on the bar, I placed one hand on the exhaust heat shield which changed the quality of the sound. I could hear a high pitched exhaust "spit" which was intriguing. Remove the shield and then not sure that the knock was a pronounced. Noticed that the exhaust flange was cocked at an angle, obviously someone tightened the right nut then put the left into place. Ratchet with extension, 1/4 turn and knock was gone!

 

Most unusual for these kinds of symptoms, I was able to back off which returned the sound, retighten and repeat about six times before it would not repeat.

 

Pulled the cams and the bearings look typical of an engine with 50,000 miles. Bright, clean, burnished surfaces and nice as can be.

 

I felt a bit bad about the deal I got but the PO was fine. I had made no diagnosis or claim and the evidence seemed to support the bad cam bearings assessment. He's happy with his DRZ400 and I'm very pleased with the KLR.

[zoot]

On 8/6/2014 4:41 PM, Ron Criswell roncriswell2@... [DSN_KLR650] wrote:

I like Jennifer's threads. Criswell Sent from my iPhone On Aug 6, 2014, at 5:34 PM, "mark ward nomad59@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

That's funny right there. t.

[ron criswell]

First of all, I wouldn't trust anything BMW told me or HD. My KLR is still running great at 58,000.....from the influence of guru's on this list. Beemer, KTM, Ducati, HD are big on you being the sacrificial lamb to their service agenda.$$$$$ Sadly, the Japanese are catching on.$$$$ Criswell Sent from my iPad

On Aug 6, 2014, at 4:20 PM, "mark ward nomad59@... [DSN_KLR650]"DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  Sight Glass My K1200lt has alot of issues after I filled with 4 quarts as told by BMW & the Book.  When I filled the last time by the Sight Glass it took a pint+ less. My vote is SIGHT GLASS ALWAYS On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 4:18 PM, "Ronald Criswell roncriswell2@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   I have always filled mine according to what was his name ..Elden Carl I think (Fred knows) 2 quarts and 19 ounces if I remember correctly (above and beyond the site glass top mark). I never have to add oil. I constantly run at 5000 or 5200 rpm for hours on end using Rotella 15W 40W and at 58,000 miles???? I never shy away from a speedy get away at red light turning green. ???? And I never add oil between 3.000 mile changes. I hardly ever look at the site glass as it is always about the same. Criswell On Aug 6, 2014, at 12:26 PM, Martin Earl mjearl4@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hi John, So, in your experience, the bike's oil level does not change as long as you are between the min/max lines?Regardless how you ride the bike?If that is true, it is not the norm most people have reported. smile. I would suggest that filling the crankcase with 2.5L is not the problem, it is the high rpm's. I would also suggest that even if it is between the fill marks, and you run the higher rpms, it will continue to 'consume oil', be it burn or blow it out; how is not important, as it (oil) will be gone and your engine will be in danger from loss of lubrication and cooling from low oil volume. Numerous folks over the years have fragged their engine after flogging the engine endlessly at higher rpm's and failing to properly monitor their oil at each fueling; one such unfortunate fellow reported adding 2 qts of oil to get it to the Max line after such an extended run . yikesThat poor bike...I may have bought spare parts from it later. shrug. I also note that the oil consumption may increase slightly towards the end of the oil change interval.m1 On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 6:06 AM, John Triplett johntripwire@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Same here. When I have tried the full 2.5L fill in my 07 it is well above the glass and will spit oil out of the breather tube, especially at higher rpm until it's happy at a level just above the sight glass. I just fill it to there now. John T.

[Ateam]

Thanks for that Norm.  I read every post.  We lurkers are out her; lurking.   Ateam   [b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, August 06, 2014 5:47 PM [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: oil consumption klr 650 and capacity    

Great appreciation of the real concerns regarding oil levels, John.   FWIW, a good rule of thumb with regards engine oil is that it should pour thinner at the oil drain than when new. As a general rule, oil will thin out over time as the viscosity index improvers will often gradually wear out making the oil a bit thinner. I expect this and watch for the effect. Having done at least thousands of oil changes over the last 54 years, it seems to match the expected.   On the other hand, if the oil is thicker, this is usually a sign that the oil is oxidizing which causes it to thicken. If see oil which is thicker than new at draining, it may be time to run an oil analysis or consider the service rating of the oil versus oil operating temperatures.   Others will point out that this is very qualitative but doesn't hurt to observe and consider. There are many other factors which can affect the apparent thickness of used oil from fuel dilution to sludge build-up.   My present KLR was purchased from a member of another group who had completed a 600 mile highway trip without checking the oil. He returned home and was fueling up when he thought to check the oil level. Nothing in the sight glass. He pour 2 litres into the sump before it was near to the top line, and on start-up he noticed a rapping noise which was apparently from the cam box area. Speculation and questions in the forum combined with a linked cell phone sound file brought many to conclude that he had wiped the cam bearings due to low oil.   I was not convinced but only because my hearing is bad and have never been able to diagnose by sound over the web. Seemed very likely so I offered to have a look if he would transport the bike the 80 miles to here. He as not equipped or allowed to do mechanical at his apartment so best I could do to help a university student. He was unable to do that and planned to buy another bike so asked his bottom line and bought the bike sight unseen. He said that he would sell for between $6 & 800 which would have encouraged an offer of $600 but offered to meet him 1/2 way at $700. I thought I could find a head or complete engine without going above the market value of the bike.   After purchase I was listening to the head knock and to avoid loosing position reference and perhaps banging my head on the bar, I placed one hand on the exhaust heat shield which changed the quality of the sound. I could hear a high pitched exhaust "spit" which was intriguing. Remove the shield and then not sure that the knock was a pronounced. Noticed that the exhaust flange was cocked at an angle, obviously someone tightened the right nut then put the left into place. Ratchet with extension, 1/4 turn and knock was gone!   Most unusual for these kinds of symptoms, I was able to back off which returned the sound, retighten and repeat about six times before it would not repeat.   Pulled the cams and the bearings look typical of an engine with 50,000 miles. Bright, clean, burnished surfaces and nice as can be.   I felt a bit bad about the deal I got but the PO was fine. I had made no diagnosis or claim and the evidence seemed to support the bad cam bearings assessment. He's happy with his DRZ400 and I'm very pleased with the KLR.

[slash5er]

So, here's what has transpired so far. Some things are better and some are worse. But, it everything works out in the end, and if it's not working out, it just means it's not the end yet.  I had no real way of getting out of Hyder, AK/Stewart, BC although a guy offered to take me and the bike to Edmonton, 18-20 hours east...but next week. That wouldn't work. I then sold him the bike for $650, and the guy who owned the bar and hotel said he would mail my gear home for me and I could hitch out. A few beers later, I bought the bike back and the next morning, in the dirt in the camp ground, attached a gallon gas jug as a big catch can, bought a gallon of oil, and headed out of the estuary canyon that I was trapped in. Moving at 35-45 mph, I didn't lose a whole lot of oil and made it to Smithers, BC that night. The next day, I made Prince George, BC (45 MPH is a real traffic hazard!) but the bike started to run really hot. The gauge would peg "H" within a few minutes of just toodling around in town looking for a gas pump....and I had the fan switched on. Oil level was right in the middle of the glass (but maybe it was oil and gasoline?) and water level was ok in the tank and in the top of the radiator (what a pain in the ass that is to check!). There happened to be a Kawasaki, et al. dealer in Prince George, which turned out to be as useful as tits on a man.  I called some rental places and no one would rent me a pick-up to go out of the province. Finally, a little U-Haul franchise suggested I call U-Haul's Canadian 800 number, which would list all inventory in the area. I found the ONLY truck in P.G. 15 minutes before the place closed, rented it, put one good and one oily, leaky, unhappy KLR in the back, and headed east toward Jasper. When I got there, I was told I could not take a U-Haul down Highway 93 to Banf because of some sort of thing about trucks without special permits, although the official admitted if it were a motorhome, it would have made no difference. Headed for Edmonton at 9 mpg and then a south-running turn-off to Cochrane, where I have just had a few beers and burger in a house and will soon be taking a shower. Still don't know what causes the pressure in the crankcase. Oil definitely coming from the breather tube and going up to the air box where it pours out the "tight-lipped" drain hose under the airbox. If it were a bad ring, it would also pull oil into the combustion chamber and produce smoke and loss of compression, I believe. Could there be something clogging some oil passage? Is the oil pump a two-stage affair (like my old Triumph was) that could pressurize if one side stopped working? Could my eventual overheating be toasted bearings? Where would you start in trying to figure this out?? Heading for Michigan in a day or so with the bike on a trailer this time. Thanks in advance, JohnD<<<