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DSN_KLR650
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Luc Legrain
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:17 am

klr650 valves

Post by Luc Legrain » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:50 pm

Ladies and Germs ,
It's been quite while since I posted . I finally stopped procrastinating, and on this 5th rainy day, finally decided to do a valve check . Background.. A19 ..36436.2 miles ; first and only valves check was done at 1500 miles ( bought it brand new )
here is what I have : intake right 0.012m/m
                                 intake  left  0.004 m/m ( only guessing on this one ,my gauges don't go below .006 mils)
                                 exhaust right 0.011 m/m    
                                 exhaust left    0.015 m/m
                       no ideas what size shims are used (number upside down ) can't know with out removing cams .
 34936.2 miles ago I got from Fred that little plastic can with 16 (?) shims in ,kept oiled and hidden took me 2 hours to find the booger !
 Before I take the cams off please tell me what size shim I need to use . Don't wanna use the calculator .. (lazy) . I want to be on the top end of the specs , so I can ride happily ever after !
Thanks for the feed back .   
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Fred Hink
Posts: 2434
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 10:08 am

klr650 valves

Post by Fred Hink » Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:05 pm

Luc,   The only way you are going to know what size shim to use is to know what size shim you are starting with.  Are you sure your measurements are in MM or in inches?  You need good feeler gauges to make accurate measurements.  To remove the cams, you ll need to either remove the bolt that holds the spring inside your cam chain tensioner or remove the complete cam chain tensioner and reset it before reinstalling it.  Be careful removing the cam caps since there is a metal sleeve that can fall off the cam cap and down inside the abyss .  Use a torque wrench to tighten the cam caps again and be sure you are reading it in inch pounds and not foot pounds.  I think the hardest part of this procedure is getting the valve cover off the engine.  It is a real puzzle to get it just right for it ton come off.   There is lots written about your valve adjustment.  Read it all and you ll be fine. Fred http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com   [b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Friday, June 13, 2014 1:47 PM [b]To:[/b] dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] klr650 Valves    

Ladies and Germs , It's been quite while since I posted . I finally stopped procrastinating, and on this 5th rainy day, finally decided to do a valve check . Background.. A19 ..36436.2 miles ; first and only valves check was done at 1500 miles ( bought it brand new ) here is what I have : intake right 0.012m/m                                  intake  left  0.004 m/m ( only guessing on this one ,my gauges don't go below .006 mils)                                  exhaust right 0.011 m/m                                     exhaust left    0.015 m/m                        no ideas what size shims are used (number upside down ) can't know with out removing cams . 34936.2 miles ago I got from Fred that little plastic can with 16 (?) shims in ,kept oiled and hidden took me 2 hours to find the booger ! Before I take the cams off please tell me what size shim I need to use . Don't wanna use the calculator .. (lazy) . I want to be on the top end of the specs , so I can ride happily ever after ! Thanks for the feed back .   

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mark ward
Posts: 1027
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:18 am

klr650 valves

Post by mark ward » Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:08 pm

MUST know what is in use now.    x+2=? makes for impossible math.  So, SHIM size, AND Gap NEEDED. When you are done this time, Make note in your book etc. what you put where? I do NOT completely remove the Cams, I use a small pencil magnet, and pocket screwdriver, or knife edge, sometimes to break the oily seal, the lift with out Magnet.(Magnet at ANY auto or hardware store, 2inch pencil size, with hinged telescopic handle.) Remember to stuff Rags in hole by chain incase you drop a shim. OOPS Mark (West Mich.)  On Friday, June 13, 2014 3:50 PM, "Luc Legrain zrislois2klr@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
  Ladies and Germs ,It's been quite while since I posted . I finally stopped procrastinating, and on this 5th rainy day, finally decided to do a valve check . Background.. A19 ..36436.2 miles ; first and only valves check was done at 1500 miles ( bought it brand new ) here is what I have : intake right 0.012m/m                                 intake  left  0.004 m/m ( only guessing on this one ,my gauges don't go below .006 mils)                                 exhaust right 0.011 m/m                                     exhaust left    0.015 m/m                       no ideas what size shims are used (number upside down ) can't know with out removing cams .  34936.2 miles ago I got from Fred that little plastic can with 16 (?) shims in ,kept oiled and hidden took me 2 hours to find the booger ! Before I take the cams off please tell me what size shim I need to use . Don't wanna use the calculator .. (lazy) . I want to be on the top end of the specs , so I can ride happily ever after !Thanks for the feed back .    #ygrps-yiv-1583102819 #ygrps-yiv-1583102819yiv6281197917 #ygrps-yiv-1583102819yiv6281197917 -- #ygrps-yiv-1583102819yiv6281197917ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #ygrps-yiv-1583102819 #ygrps-yiv-1583102819yiv6281197917 #ygrps-yiv-1583102819yiv6281197917ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrps-yiv-1583102819 #ygrps-yiv-1583102819yiv6281197917 #ygrps-yiv-1583102819yiv6281197917ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-1583102819yiv6281197917hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #ygrps-yiv-1583102819 #ygrps-yiv-1583102819yiv6281197917 #ygrps-yiv-1583102819yiv6281197917ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-1583102819yiv6281197917ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #ygrps-yiv-1583102819 #ygrps-yiv-1583102819yiv6281197917 #ygrps-yiv-1583102819yiv6281197917ygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-1583102819yiv6281197917ad { padding:0 0;} 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mark ward
Posts: 1027
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:18 am

klr650 valves

Post by mark ward » Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:13 pm

PS. A few good videos on Youtube,  And at least 1 cam bolt is hard to reach in to it wit torque wrench, so I used a 1/4inch drive extension, and heated it with a torch, to make a Z shape, to fit in there.  On Friday, June 13, 2014 4:08 PM, "mark ward nomad59@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
  MUST know what is in use now.    x+2=? makes for impossible math.  So, SHIM size, AND Gap NEEDED. When you are done this time, Make note in your book etc. what you put where? I do NOT completely remove the Cams, I use a small pencil magnet, and pocket screwdriver, or knife edge, sometimes to break the oily seal, the lift with out Magnet.(Magnet at ANY auto or hardware store, 2inch pencil size, with hinged telescopic handle.) Remember to stuff Rags in hole by chain incase you drop a shim. OOPS Mark (West Mich.)  On Friday, June 13, 2014 3:50 PM, "Luc Legrain zrislois2klr@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   Ladies and Germs ,It's been quite while since I posted . I finally stopped procrastinating, and on this 5th rainy day, finally decided to do a valve check . Background.. A19 ..36436.2 miles ; first and only valves check was done at 1500 miles ( bought it brand new ) here is what I have : intake right 0.012m/m                                 intake  left  0.004 m/m ( only guessing on this one ,my gauges don't go below .006 mils)                                 exhaust right 0.011 m/m                                     exhaust left    0.015 m/m                       no ideas what size shims are used (number upside down ) can't know with out removing cams .  34936.2 miles ago I got from Fred that little plastic can with 16 (?) shims in ,kept oiled and hidden took me 2 hours to find the booger ! Before I take the cams off please tell me what size shim I need to use . Don't wanna use the calculator .. (lazy) . I want to be on the top end of the specs , so I can ride happily ever after !Thanks for the feed back .   
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Jeff Saline
Posts: 2246
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 6:02 pm

klr650 valves

Post by Jeff Saline » Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:03 pm

#ygrps-yiv-462819044 .ygrps-yiv-462819044ygrp-photo-title { TEXT-ALIGN:center;WIDTH:75px;HEIGHT:15px;CLEAR:both;FONT-SIZE:smaller;OVERFLOW:hidden;} #ygrps-yiv-462819044 DIV.ygrps-yiv-462819044ygrp-photo { BORDER-BOTTOM:black 1px solid;BORDER-LEFT:black 1px solid;BACKGROUND-COLOR:white;WIDTH:62px;BACKGROUND-REPEAT:no-repeat;BACKGROUND-POSITION:center 50%;HEIGHT:62px;BORDER-TOP:black 1px solid;BORDER-RIGHT:black 1px solid;} #ygrps-yiv-462819044 DIV.ygrps-yiv-462819044photo-title A { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-462819044 DIV.ygrps-yiv-462819044photo-title A:active { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-462819044 DIV.ygrps-yiv-462819044photo-title A:hover { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-462819044 DIV.ygrps-yiv-462819044photo-title A:visited { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-462819044 DIV.ygrps-yiv-462819044attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-462819044attach-row { CLEAR:both;} #ygrps-yiv-462819044 DIV.ygrps-yiv-462819044attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-462819044attach-row DIV { FLOAT:left;} #ygrps-yiv-462819044 P { PADDING-BOTTOM:3px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;CLEAR:both;OVERFLOW:hidden;PADDING-TOP:15px;} #ygrps-yiv-462819044 DIV.ygrps-yiv-462819044ygrp-file { WIDTH:30px;} #ygrps-yiv-462819044 DIV.ygrps-yiv-462819044attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-462819044attach-row DIV DIV A { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-462819044 DIV.ygrps-yiv-462819044attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-462819044attach-row DIV DIV SPAN { FONT-WEIGHT:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-462819044 DIV.ygrps-yiv-462819044ygrp-file-title { FONT-WEIGHT:bold;} On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 12:47:17 -0700 (PDT) "Luc Legrain zrislois2klr@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> writes:   Ladies and Germs , It's been quite while since I posted . I finally stopped procrastinating, and on this 5th rainy day, finally decided to do a valve check . Background.. A19 ..36436.2 miles ; first and only valves check was done at 1500 miles ( bought it brand new ) here is what I have : intake right 0.012m/m                                  intake  left  0.004 m/m ( only guessing on this one ,my gauges don't go below .006 mils)                                  exhaust right 0.011 m/m                                     exhaust left    0.015 m/m                        no ideas what size shims are used (number upside down ) can't know with out removing cams .  34936.2 miles ago I got from Fred that little plastic can with 16 (?) shims in ,kept oiled and hidden took me 2 hours to find the booger !  Before I take the cams off please tell me what size shim I need to use . Don't wanna use the calculator .. (lazy) . I want to be on the top end of the specs , so I can ride happily ever after ! Thanks for the feed back .   <><><>><> <><><><><><>   Luc,   I'm gonna question your measurements.  I see from your post today they are in mms.  The conversion for mms to inches (I think in inches so that is what I use) is 25.4.  So taking your measurements and converting by dividing your measurement by 25.4 here is what I get:   right intake 0.012mm = 0.0005" left intake 0.004mm = 0.0002" right exhaust 0.011mm = 0.0004" left exhaust 0.015mm = 0.0006"   I don't know that I have ever seen a feeler gauge less than 0.0010".   So I'll suggest all your measurements are incorrect.   One of the reasons I work in inches is that is how I was raised and that is how I think.  I can work in metric if I have to but it becomes work.   For the valve adjustments the shim change sizes by 0.002" per size change.  For me that makes conversions simple and easy to do in my head.  Clearances for the KLR valves are intake 0.004"-0.008" and exhaust 0.006"-0.010".   So if you redo your measurements you can quickly figure out the changes like this example.  Say the intake is at 0.003".  You want 0.008" which is a change of 0.005".  Shims only change in sizes of 0.002" so to keep from going over you can only change the shim two sizes (0.004") thinner.  If the shim in place is a 260 you would go smaller two sizes to a 250 and the clearance would then be 0.007" which would be as close as you could get.  Shim sizes change like this:  275, 270, 265, 260, 255, 250, 245, 240, 235, 230 etc.  I'm not sure how small you can go but by 210 you would for sure need to be considering doing a valve job on the head.   You asked about how valves wear.  The valve is shaped kind of like a mushroom.  You have the head of the valve like the head of a mushroom.  And you have the stem of the valve like the stem of a mushroom.  In the head where the valve is placed is a seat.   The head of the valve has a machined surface called the seat.  The face of the valve which is on the bottom side of the valve head mates with the valve seat in the head to make a tight seal.  This fit is a precision fit when correctly done and is the seal for the combustion chamber.  The valve and seat wear as they slam together in operation.  A valve on the KLR opens and closes every other crankshaft rotation.  So at idle of 1,200 rpm the intake valve is opening and closing 600 times a minute or 10 times per second.  As the valve face and seat wear it allows the valve to move deeper into the head.  This causes the valve stem to move closer to the cam which is the clearance you are measuring and adjusting.  The stem normally doesn't wear shorter it is the valve seating deeper into the head which is what you compensate for by adjusting the valves.   Along this same line of thinking... clearance is important as it adjusts when the valve opens and closes in relation to the cam/crank and also for how long a valve is closed allowing heat to transfer from the valve to the seat/head.  A tighter valve clearance will open the valve sooner and close it later which might allow more flow.  At the same time it is allowing the valve less time against the seat and that reduces heat transfer allowing the valve to get hotter and probably accelerate wear.  If the clearance is too small, as the engine gets hot the valve expands from the heat and could be held open allowing leakage.  In some cases it can be so bad as to keep the engine from running and will also cause the edge of the valve to burn.   Hope this is helpful.   Best, Jeff Saline The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 . . . . . . . .     ____________________________________________________________ [b]The Fall of Microsoft[/b] Bill Gates has realized the technology that could mean the end of his $300B empire. fool.com
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Jeff Saline
Posts: 2246
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 6:02 pm

klr650 valves

Post by Jeff Saline » Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:04 pm

#ygrps-yiv-1767933717 .ygrps-yiv-1767933717ygrp-photo-title { TEXT-ALIGN:center;WIDTH:75px;HEIGHT:15px;CLEAR:both;FONT-SIZE:smaller;OVERFLOW:hidden;} #ygrps-yiv-1767933717 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717ygrp-photo { BORDER-BOTTOM:black 1px solid;BORDER-LEFT:black 1px solid;BACKGROUND-COLOR:white;WIDTH:62px;BACKGROUND-REPEAT:no-repeat;BACKGROUND-POSITION:center 50%;HEIGHT:62px;BORDER-TOP:black 1px solid;BORDER-RIGHT:black 1px solid;} #ygrps-yiv-1767933717 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717photo-title A { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1767933717 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717photo-title A:active { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1767933717 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717photo-title A:hover { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1767933717 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717photo-title A:visited { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1767933717 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717attach-row { CLEAR:both;} #ygrps-yiv-1767933717 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717attach-row DIV { FLOAT:left;} #ygrps-yiv-1767933717 P { PADDING-BOTTOM:3px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;CLEAR:both;OVERFLOW:hidden;PADDING-TOP:15px;} #ygrps-yiv-1767933717 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717ygrp-file { WIDTH:30px;} #ygrps-yiv-1767933717 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717attach-row DIV DIV A { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1767933717 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717attach-row DIV DIV SPAN { FONT-WEIGHT:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-1767933717 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717ygrp-file-title { FONT-WEIGHT:bold;} #ygrps-yiv-1767933717 .ygrps-yiv-1767933717ygrp-photo-title { TEXT-ALIGN:center;WIDTH:75px;HEIGHT:15px;CLEAR:both;FONT-SIZE:smaller;OVERFLOW:hidden;} #ygrps-yiv-1767933717 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717ygrp-photo { BORDER-BOTTOM:black 1px solid;BORDER-LEFT:black 1px solid;BACKGROUND-COLOR:white;WIDTH:62px;BACKGROUND-REPEAT:no-repeat;BACKGROUND-POSITION:center 50%;HEIGHT:62px;BORDER-TOP:black 1px solid;BORDER-RIGHT:black 1px solid;} #ygrps-yiv-1767933717 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717photo-title A { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1767933717 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717photo-title A:active { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1767933717 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717photo-title A:hover { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1767933717 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717photo-title A:visited { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1767933717 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717attach-row { CLEAR:both;} #ygrps-yiv-1767933717 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717attach-row DIV { FLOAT:left;} #ygrps-yiv-1767933717 P { PADDING-BOTTOM:3px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;CLEAR:both;OVERFLOW:hidden;PADDING-TOP:15px;} #ygrps-yiv-1767933717 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717ygrp-file { WIDTH:30px;} #ygrps-yiv-1767933717 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717attach-row DIV DIV A { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1767933717 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717attach-row DIV DIV SPAN { FONT-WEIGHT:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-1767933717 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1767933717ygrp-file-title { FONT-WEIGHT:bold;} NEW MESSAGE AT END OF MAIL   On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 12:47:17 -0700 (PDT) "Luc Legrain writes: Ladies and Germs , It's been quite while since I posted . I finally stopped procrastinating, and on this 5th rainy day, finally decided to do a valve check . Background.. A19 ..36436.2 miles ; first and only valves check was done at 1500 miles ( bought it brand new ) here is what I have : intake right 0.012m/m                                  intake  left  0.004 m/m ( only guessing on this one ,my gauges don't go below .006 mils)                                  exhaust right 0.011 m/m                                     exhaust left    0.015 m/m                        no ideas what size shims are used (number upside down ) can't know with out removing cams .    34936.2 miles ago I got from Fred that little plastic can with 16 (?) shims in ,kept oiled and hidden took me 2 hours to find the booger !  Before I take the cams off please tell me what size shim I need to use . Don't wanna use the calculator .. (lazy) . I want to be on the top end of the specs , so I can ride happily ever after ! Thanks for the feed back .   <><><>><> <><><><><><> Jeff replied:   Luc,   I'm gonna question your measurements.  I see from your post today they are in mms.  The conversion for mms to inches (I think in inches so that is what I use) is 25.4.  So taking your measurements and converting by dividing your measurement by 25.4 here is what I get:   right intake 0.012mm = 0.0005" left intake 0.004mm = 0.0002" right exhaust 0.011mm = 0.0004" left exhaust 0.015mm = 0.0006"   I don't know that I have ever seen a feeler gauge less than 0.0010".   So I'll suggest all your measurements are incorrect. <><><><><><><> <><><><><><><> *** NEW MESSAGE BELOW *** <><><><><><><> Luc,   Referencing the above measurements of yours and also my conversions.  I was thinking about this and if you got your decimal in the wrong place that might explain the measurements.  Maybe your 0.012mm should really be 0.12mm which would then be 0.0047" or using a feeler gage would probably show as a tight 0.005".   If that is a possibility your valves aren't horrible for 35,000 miles of use.  Here are my suggestions for shim changes if that is the only problem with the original measurements.   right intake change shim one size smaller left intake change shim three sizes smaller   right exhaust change shim three sizes smaller left exhaust change shim two sizes smaller   Best, Jeff Saline The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 . . . . . . .     ____________________________________________________________ [b]SafeAuto Car Insurance[/b] Get a car insurance quote in 3 steps & pay only state minimum coverage SafeAuto.com
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Luc Legrain
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:17 am

klr650 valves

Post by Luc Legrain » Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:05 am

JeffYou were correct the measurements are incorrect ,so I had to take cam shafts off replace the "new "shims with the old ones ,put cam shaft back ,re-torque cam caps , I borrowed a feeler gauge and am now ready to measure gap .Question : I had the arrows on the cam shaft sprockets aligned properly with the top of the head ,but when I put back the timing chain tensioner the spring in the tensioner push everything up about 1/2 inch . How to you keep the arrows aligned when putting tension on the timing chain ? Thank You On Saturday, June 14, 2014 12:03 PM, Jeff Saline wrote: #ygrps-yiv-949920463 #ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742 .ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742ygrp-photo-title { TEXT-ALIGN:center;WIDTH:75px;HEIGHT:15px;CLEAR:both;FONT-SIZE:smaller;OVERFLOW:hidden;} #ygrps-yiv-949920463 #ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742 DIV.ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742ygrp-photo { BORDER-BOTTOM:black 1px solid;BORDER-LEFT:black 1px solid;BACKGROUND-COLOR:white;WIDTH:62px;BACKGROUND-REPEAT:no-repeat;BACKGROUND-POSITION:center 50%;HEIGHT:62px;BORDER-TOP:black 1px solid;BORDER-RIGHT:black 1px solid;} #ygrps-yiv-949920463 #ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742 DIV.ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742photo-title A { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-949920463 #ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742 DIV.ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742photo-title A:active { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-949920463 #ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742 DIV.ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742photo-title A:hover { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-949920463 #ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742 DIV.ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742photo-title A:visited { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-949920463 #ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742 DIV.ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742attach-row { CLEAR:both;} #ygrps-yiv-949920463 #ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742 DIV.ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742attach-row DIV { FLOAT:left;} #ygrps-yiv-949920463 #ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742 P { PADDING-BOTTOM:3px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;CLEAR:both;OVERFLOW:hidden;PADDING-TOP:15px;} #ygrps-yiv-949920463 #ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742 DIV.ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742ygrp-file { WIDTH:30px;} #ygrps-yiv-949920463 #ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742 DIV.ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742attach-row DIV DIV A { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-949920463 #ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742 DIV.ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742attach-row DIV DIV SPAN { FONT-WEIGHT:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-949920463 #ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742 DIV.ygrps-yiv-949920463yiv9945084742ygrp-file-title { FONT-WEIGHT:bold;} On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 12:47:17 -0700 (PDT) "Luc Legrain zrislois2klr@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> writes:   Ladies and Germs , It's been quite while since I posted . I finally stopped procrastinating, and on this 5th rainy day, finally decided to do a valve check . Background.. A19 ..36436.2 miles ; first and only valves check was done at 1500 miles ( bought it brand new ) here is what I have : intake right 0.012m/m                                  intake  left  0.004 m/m ( only guessing on this one ,my gauges don't go below .006 mils)                                  exhaust right 0.011 m/m                                     exhaust left    0.015 m/m                        no ideas what size shims are used (number upside down ) can't know with out removing cams .  34936.2 miles ago I got from Fred that little plastic can with 16 (?) shims in ,kept oiled and hidden took me 2 hours to find the booger !  Before I take the cams off please tell me what size shim I need to use . Don't wanna use the calculator .. (lazy) . I want to be on the top end of the specs , so I can ride happily ever after ! Thanks for the feed back .   <><><>><> <><><><><><>   Luc,   I'm gonna question your measurements.  I see from your post today they are in mms.  The conversion for mms to inches (I think in inches so that is what I use) is 25.4.  So taking your measurements and converting by dividing your measurement by 25.4 here is what I get:   right intake 0.012mm = 0.0005" left intake 0.004mm = 0.0002" right exhaust 0.011mm = 0.0004" left exhaust 0.015mm = 0.0006"   I don't know that I have ever seen a feeler gauge less than 0.0010".   So I'll suggest all your measurements are incorrect.   One of the reasons I work in inches is that is how I was raised and that is how I think.  I can work in metric if I have to but it becomes work.   For the valve adjustments the shim change sizes by 0.002" per size change.  For me that makes conversions simple and easy to do in my head.  Clearances for the KLR valves are intake 0.004"-0.008" and exhaust 0.006"-0.010".   So if you redo your measurements you can quickly figure out the changes like this example.  Say the intake is at 0.003".  You want 0.008" which is a change of 0.005".  Shims only change in sizes of 0.002" so to keep from going over you can only change the shim two sizes (0.004") thinner.  If the shim in place is a 260 you would go smaller two sizes to a 250 and the clearance would then be 0.007" which would be as close as you could get.  Shim sizes change like this:  275, 270, 265, 260, 255, 250, 245, 240, 235, 230 etc.  I'm not sure how small you can go but by 210 you would for sure need to be considering doing a valve job on the head.   You asked about how valves wear.  The valve is shaped kind of like a mushroom.  You have the head of the valve like the head of a mushroom.  And you have the stem of the valve like the stem of a mushroom.  In the head where the valve is placed is a seat.   The head of the valve has a machined surface called the seat.  The face of the valve which is on the bottom side of the valve head mates with the valve seat in the head to make a tight seal.  This fit is a precision fit when correctly done and is the seal for the combustion chamber.  The valve and seat wear as they slam together in operation.  A valve on the KLR opens and closes every other crankshaft rotation.  So at idle of 1,200 rpm the intake valve is opening and closing 600 times a minute or 10 times per second.  As the valve face and seat wear it allows the valve to move deeper into the head.  This causes the valve stem to move closer to the cam which is the clearance you are measuring and adjusting.  The stem normally doesn't wear shorter it is the valve seating deeper into the head which is what you compensate for by adjusting the valves.   Along this same line of thinking... clearance is important as it adjusts when the valve opens and closes in relation to the cam/crank and also for how long a valve is closed allowing heat to transfer from the valve to the seat/head.  A tighter valve clearance will open the valve sooner and close it later which might allow more flow.  At the same time it is allowing the valve less time against the seat and that reduces heat transfer allowing the valve to get hotter and probably accelerate wear.  If the clearance is too small, as the engine gets hot the valve expands from the heat and could be held open allowing leakage.  In some cases it can be so bad as to keep the engine from running and will also cause the edge of the valve to burn.   Hope this is helpful.   Best, Jeff Saline The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 . . . . . . . .     ____________________________________________________________ [b]Turn $40 Into $10 Million[/b] Warren Buffett tells how to turn $40 into $10 Million. Find out here. fool.com
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RobertWichert
Posts: 697
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:32 am

klr650 valves

Post by RobertWichert » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:11 am

I know this is to Jeff, so I apologize for butting in, butt I'm pretty sure that I am correct when I say ONLY TURN THE CRANKSHAFT COUNTER CLOCKWISE but if the timing marks are wrong (and everything is tight and buttoned up on top) you can turn the big crankshaft "nut" counterclockwise until the marks are correct again.  If you go past, just go around again.  Here is a good story with pictures:  http://www.klr650.marknet.us/valves.html And besides, you do not need anything lined up when you put tension back on at the end of the job.  You are not going to be measuring any more, you are done with the job when you tension the cam chain.  So only measure when the marks are right on the cams and the crankshaft but don't worry too much about the tension.  If you follow the steps carefully one by one in the link above, you'll be OK. Cheers! Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C HERS I/II CEPE CEA BPI CERTIFIED SF/MF GREEN POINT RATER +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 =============================================== On 7/4/2014 7:02 AM, Luc Legrain zrislois2klr@... [DSN_KLR650] wrote:
  Jeff You were correct the measurements are incorrect ,so I had to take cam shafts off replace the "new "shims with the old ones ,put cam shaft back ,re-torque cam caps , I borrowed a feeler gauge and am now ready to measure gap . Question : I had the arrows on the cam shaft sprockets aligned properly with the top of the head ,but when I put back the timing chain tensioner the spring in the tensioner push everything up about 1/2 inch . How to you keep the arrows aligned when putting tension on the timing chain ? Thank You On Saturday, June 14, 2014 12:03 PM, Jeff Saline salinej1@... wrote: On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 12:47:17 -0700 (PDT) "Luc Legrain zrislois2klr@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> writes:   Ladies and Germs , It's been quite while since I posted . I finally stopped procrastinating, and on this 5th rainy day, finally decided to do a valve check . Background.. A19 ..36436.2 miles ; first and only valves check was done at 1500 miles ( bought it brand new ) here is what I have : intake right 0.012m/m                                  intake  left  0.004 m/m ( only guessing on this one ,my gauges don't go below .006 mils)                                  exhaust right 0.011 m/m                                     exhaust left    0.015 m/m                        no ideas what size shims are used (number upside down ) can't know with out removing cams .  34936.2 miles ago I got from Fred that little plastic can with 16 (?) shims in ,kept oiled and hidden took me 2 hours to find the booger !  Before I take the cams off please tell me what size shim I need to use . Don't wanna use the calculator .. (lazy) . I want to be on the top end of the specs , so I can ride happily ever after ! Thanks for the feed back .   <><><>><> <><><><><><>   Luc,   I'm gonna question your measurements.  I see from your post today they are in mms.  The conversion for mms to inches (I think in inches so that is what I use) is 25.4.  So taking your measurements and converting by dividing your measurement by 25.4 here is what I get:   right intake 0.012mm = 0.0005" left intake 0.004mm = 0.0002" right exhaust 0.011mm = 0.0004" left exhaust 0.015mm = 0.0006"   I don't know that I have ever seen a feeler gauge less than 0.0010".   So I'll suggest all your measurements are incorrect.   One of the reasons I work in inches is that is how I was raised and that is how I think.  I can work in metric if I have to but it becomes work.   For the valve adjustments the shim change sizes by 0.002" per size change.  For me that makes conversions simple and easy to do in my head.  Clearances for the KLR valves are intake 0.004"-0.008" and exhaust 0.006"-0.010".   So if you redo your measurements you can quickly figure out the changes like this example.  Say the intake is at 0.003".  You want 0.008" which is a change of 0.005".  Shims only change in sizes of 0.002" so to keep from going over you can only change the shim two sizes (0.004") thinner.  If the shim in place is a 260 you would go smaller two sizes to a 250 and the clearance would then be 0.007" which would be as close as you could get.  Shim sizes change like this:  275, 270, 265, 260, 255, 250, 245, 240, 235, 230 etc.  I'm not sure how small you can go but by 210 you would for sure need to be considering doing a valve job on the head.   You asked about how valves wear.  The valve is shaped kind of like a mushroom.  You have the head of the valve like the head of a mushroom.  And you have the stem of the valve like the stem of a mushroom.  In the head where the valve is placed is a seat.   The head of the valve has a machined surface called the seat.  The face of the valve which is on the bottom side of the valve head mates with the valve seat in the head to make a tight seal.  This fit is a precision fit when correctly done and is the seal for the combustion chamber.  The valve and seat wear as they slam together in operation.  A valve on the KLR opens and closes every other crankshaft rotation.  So at idle of 1,200 rpm the intake valve is opening and closing 600 times a minute or 10 times per second.  As the valve face and seat wear it allows the valve to move deeper into the head.  This causes the valve stem to move closer to the cam which is the clearance you are measuring and adjusting.  The stem normally doesn't wear shorter it is the valve seating deeper into the head which is what you compensate for by adjusting the valves.   Along this same line of thinking... clearance is important as it adjusts when the valve opens and closes in relation to the cam/crank and also for how long a valve is closed allowing heat to transfer from the valve to the seat/head.  A tighter valve clearance will open the valve sooner and close it later which might allow more flow.  At the same time it is allowing the valve less time against the seat and that reduces heat transfer allowing the valve to get hotter and probably accelerate wear.  If the clearance is too small, as the engine gets hot the valve expands from the heat and could be held open allowing leakage.  In some cases it can be so bad as to keep the engine from running and will also cause the edge of the valve to burn.   Hope this is helpful.   Best, Jeff Saline The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 . . . . . . . .     ____________________________________________________________ [b]Turn $40 Into $10 Million[/b] Warren Buffett tells how to turn $40 into $10 Million. Find out here. fool.com
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Luc Legrain
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:17 am

klr650 valves

Post by Luc Legrain » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:54 am

Robert,You are not "butting In " , I think I copied the group on this . I really appreciate the input . Thanks  On Friday, July 4, 2014 10:11 AM, "RobertWichert robert@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   I know this is to Jeff, so I apologize for butting in, butt I'm pretty sure that I am correct when I say ONLY TURN THE CRANKSHAFT COUNTER CLOCKWISE but if the timing marks are wrong (and everything is tight and buttoned up on top) you can turn the big crankshaft "nut" counterclockwise until the marks are correct again.  If you go past, just go around again.  Here is a good story with pictures:  http://www.klr650.marknet.us/valves.html And besides, you do not need anything lined up when you put tension back on at the end of the job.  You are not going to be measuring any more, you are done with the job when you tension the cam chain.  So only measure when the marks are right on the cams and the crankshaft but don't worry too much about the tension.  If you follow the steps carefully one by one in the link above, you'll be OK. Cheers! Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C HERS I/II CEPE CEA BPI CERTIFIED SF/MF GREEN POINT RATER +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 =============================================== On 7/4/2014 7:02 AM, Luc Legrain zrislois2klr@... [DSN_KLR650] wrote:
  Jeff You were correct the measurements are incorrect ,so I had to take cam shafts off replace the "new "shims with the old ones ,put cam shaft back ,re-torque cam caps , I borrowed a feeler gauge and am now ready to measure gap . Question : I had the arrows on the cam shaft sprockets aligned properly with the top of the head ,but when I put back the timing chain tensioner the spring in the tensioner push everything up about 1/2 inch . How to you keep the arrows aligned when putting tension on the timing chain ? Thank You On Saturday, June 14, 2014 12:03 PM, Jeff Saline salinej1@... wrote: On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 12:47:17 -0700 (PDT) "Luc Legrain zrislois2klr@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> writes:   Ladies and Germs , It's been quite while since I posted . I finally stopped procrastinating, and on this 5th rainy day, finally decided to do a valve check . Background.. A19 ..36436.2 miles ; first and only valves check was done at 1500 miles ( bought it brand new ) here is what I have : intake right 0.012m/m                                  intake  left  0.004 m/m ( only guessing on this one ,my gauges don't go below .006 mils)                                  exhaust right 0.011 m/m                                     exhaust left    0.015 m/m                        no ideas what size shims are used (number upside down ) can't know with out removing cams .  34936.2 miles ago I got from Fred that little plastic can with 16 (?) shims in ,kept oiled and hidden took me 2 hours to find the booger !  Before I take the cams off please tell me what size shim I need to use . Don't wanna use the calculator .. (lazy) . I want to be on the top end of the specs , so I can ride happily ever after ! Thanks for the feed back .   <><><>><> <><><><><><>   Luc,   I'm gonna question your measurements.  I see from your post today they are in mms.  The conversion for mms to inches (I think in inches so that is what I use) is 25.4.  So taking your measurements and converting by dividing your measurement by 25.4 here is what I get:   right intake 0.012mm = 0.0005" left intake 0.004mm = 0.0002" right exhaust 0.011mm = 0.0004" left exhaust 0.015mm = 0.0006"   I don't know that I have ever seen a feeler gauge less than 0.0010".   So I'll suggest all your measurements are incorrect.   One of the reasons I work in inches is that is how I was raised and that is how I think.  I can work in metric if I have to but it becomes work.   For the valve adjustments the shim change sizes by 0.002" per size change.  For me that makes conversions simple and easy to do in my head.  Clearances for the KLR valves are intake 0.004"-0.008" and exhaust 0.006"-0.010".   So if you redo your measurements you can quickly figure out the changes like this example.  Say the intake is at 0.003".  You want 0.008" which is a change of 0.005".  Shims only change in sizes of 0.002" so to keep from going over you can only change the shim two sizes (0.004") thinner.  If the shim in place is a 260 you would go smaller two sizes to a 250 and the clearance would then be 0.007" which would be as close as you could get.  Shim sizes change like this:  275, 270, 265, 260, 255, 250, 245, 240, 235, 230 etc.  I'm not sure how small you can go but by 210 you would for sure need to be considering doing a valve job on the head.   You asked about how valves wear.  The valve is shaped kind of like a mushroom.  You have the head of the valve like the head of a mushroom.  And you have the stem of the valve like the stem of a mushroom.  In the head where the valve is placed is a seat.   The head of the valve has a machined surface called the seat.  The face of the valve which is on the bottom side of the valve head mates with the valve seat in the head to make a tight seal.  This fit is a precision fit when correctly done and is the seal for the combustion chamber.  The valve and seat wear as they slam together in operation.  A valve on the KLR opens and closes every other crankshaft rotation.  So at idle of 1,200 rpm the intake valve is opening and closing 600 times a minute or 10 times per second.  As the valve face and seat wear it allows the valve to move deeper into the head.  This causes the valve stem to move closer to the cam which is the clearance you are measuring and adjusting.  The stem normally doesn't wear shorter it is the valve seating deeper into the head which is what you compensate for by adjusting the valves.   Along this same line of thinking... clearance is important as it adjusts when the valve opens and closes in relation to the cam/crank and also for how long a valve is closed allowing heat to transfer from the valve to the seat/head.  A tighter valve clearance will open the valve sooner and close it later which might allow more flow.  At the same time it is allowing the valve less time against the seat and that reduces heat transfer allowing the valve to get hotter and probably accelerate wear.  If the clearance is too small, as the engine gets hot the valve expands from the heat and could be held open allowing leakage.  In some cases it can be so bad as to keep the engine from running and will also cause the edge of the valve to burn.   Hope this is helpful.   Best, Jeff Saline The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 . . . . . . . .     ____________________________________________________________ [b]Turn $40 Into $10 Million[/b] Warren Buffett tells how to turn $40 into $10 Million. Find out here. fool.com
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mark ward
Posts: 1027
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:18 am

klr650 valves

Post by mark ward » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:33 am

Did you take apart the tensioner and  release /back off the bar inside with little gears/steps that lock it in place? Or else it will be hard to rebolt it and can cause DAMAGE if it came out more while taking it off.  On Friday, July 4, 2014 11:54 AM, "Luc Legrain zrislois2klr@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
  Robert,You are not "butting In " , I think I copied the group on this . I really appreciate the input . Thanks  On Friday, July 4, 2014 10:11 AM, "RobertWichert robert@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   I know this is to Jeff, so I apologize for butting in, butt I'm pretty sure that I am correct when I say ONLY TURN THE CRANKSHAFT COUNTER CLOCKWISE but if the timing marks are wrong (and everything is tight and buttoned up on top) you can turn the big crankshaft "nut" counterclockwise until the marks are correct again.  If you go past, just go around again.  Here is a good story with pictures:  http://www.klr650.marknet.us/valves.html And besides, you do not need anything lined up when you put tension back on at the end of the job.  You are not going to be measuring any more, you are done with the job when you tension the cam chain.  So only measure when the marks are right on the cams and the crankshaft but don't worry too much about the tension.  If you follow the steps carefully one by one in the link above, you'll be OK. Cheers! Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C HERS I/II CEPE CEA BPI CERTIFIED SF/MF GREEN POINT RATER +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 =============================================== On 7/4/2014 7:02 AM, Luc Legrain zrislois2klr@... [DSN_KLR650] wrote:   Jeff You were correct the measurements are incorrect ,so I had to take cam shafts off replace the "new "shims with the old ones ,put cam shaft back ,re-torque cam caps , I borrowed a feeler gauge and am now ready to measure gap . Question : I had the arrows on the cam shaft sprockets aligned properly with the top of the head ,but when I put back the timing chain tensioner the spring in the tensioner push everything up about 1/2 inch . How to you keep the arrows aligned when putting tension on the timing chain ? Thank You On Saturday, June 14, 2014 12:03 PM, Jeff Saline salinej1@... wrote: On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 12:47:17 -0700 (PDT) "Luc Legrain zrislois2klr@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> writes:   Ladies and Germs , It's been quite while since I posted . I finally stopped procrastinating, and on this 5th rainy day, finally decided to do a valve check . Background.. A19 ..36436.2 miles ; first and only valves check was done at 1500 miles ( bought it brand new ) here is what I have : intake right 0.012m/m                                  intake  left  0.004 m/m ( only guessing on this one ,my gauges don't go below .006 mils)                                  exhaust right 0.011 m/m                                     exhaust left    0.015 m/m                        no ideas what size shims are used (number upside down ) can't know with out removing cams .  34936.2 miles ago I got from Fred that little plastic can with 16 (?) shims in ,kept oiled and hidden took me 2 hours to find the booger !  Before I take the cams off please tell me what size shim I need to use . Don't wanna use the calculator .. (lazy) . I want to be on the top end of the specs , so I can ride happily ever after ! Thanks for the feed back .   <><><>><> <><><><><><>   Luc,   I'm gonna question your measurements.  I see from your post today they are in mms.  The conversion for mms to inches (I think in inches so that is what I use) is 25.4.  So taking your measurements and converting by dividing your measurement by 25.4 here is what I get:   right intake 0.012mm = 0.0005" left intake 0.004mm = 0.0002" right exhaust 0.011mm = 0.0004" left exhaust 0.015mm = 0.0006"   I don't know that I have ever seen a feeler gauge less than 0.0010".   So I'll suggest all your measurements are incorrect.   One of the reasons I work in inches is that is how I was raised and that is how I think.  I can work in metric if I have to but it becomes work.   For the valve adjustments the shim change sizes by 0.002" per size change.  For me that makes conversions simple and easy to do in my head.  Clearances for the KLR valves are intake 0.004"-0.008" and exhaust 0.006"-0.010".   So if you redo your measurements you can quickly figure out the changes like this example.  Say the intake is at 0.003".  You want 0.008" which is a change of 0.005".  Shims only change in sizes of 0.002" so to keep from going over you can only change the shim two sizes (0.004") thinner.  If the shim in place is a 260 you would go smaller two sizes to a 250 and the clearance would then be 0.007" which would be as close as you could get.  Shim sizes change like this:  275, 270, 265, 260, 255, 250, 245, 240, 235, 230 etc.  I'm not sure how small you can go but by 210 you would for sure need to be considering doing a valve job on the head.   You asked about how valves wear.  The valve is shaped kind of like a mushroom.  You have the head of the valve like the head of a mushroom.  And you have the stem of the valve like the stem of a mushroom.  In the head where the valve is placed is a seat.   The head of the valve has a machined surface called the seat.  The face of the valve which is on the bottom side of the valve head mates with the valve seat in the head to make a tight seal.  This fit is a precision fit when correctly done and is the seal for the combustion chamber.  The valve and seat wear as they slam together in operation.  A valve on the KLR opens and closes every other crankshaft rotation.  So at idle of 1,200 rpm the intake valve is opening and closing 600 times a minute or 10 times per second.  As the valve face and seat wear it allows the valve to move deeper into the head.  This causes the valve stem to move closer to the cam which is the clearance you are measuring and adjusting.  The stem normally doesn't wear shorter it is the valve seating deeper into the head which is what you compensate for by adjusting the valves.   Along this same line of thinking... clearance is important as it adjusts when the valve opens and closes in relation to the cam/crank and also for how long a valve is closed allowing heat to transfer from the valve to the seat/head.  A tighter valve clearance will open the valve sooner and close it later which might allow more flow.  At the same time it is allowing the valve less time against the seat and that reduces heat transfer allowing the valve to get hotter and probably accelerate wear.  If the clearance is too small, as the engine gets hot the valve expands from the heat and could be held open allowing leakage.  In some cases it can be so bad as to keep the engine from running and will also cause the edge of the valve to burn.   Hope this is helpful.   Best, Jeff Saline The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 . . . . . . . .     ____________________________________________________________ [b]Turn $40 Into $10 Million[/b] Warren Buffett tells how to turn $40 into $10 Million. Find out here. fool.com
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