klr help

[haronyquistx31]

I have been on this forum for a little while but this is my first post, and I was told this is the place to go for expert advice. I recently bought a 2008 KLR 650 with 18,000 miles that I thought just needed some simple carb work; it was having trouble idling. The bike starts great with the enricher on, and runs good until you try to idle it without the enricher, when it gets to about 1500 RPM it sputters and dies. Even if it dies while hot it will not start without the enricher on, which doesn t really make sense to me. If you try to start it without the enricher on it acts like it is going to start but just ends up sputtering and dying again.

To date I have:

-Put on Eagle Mike`s petcock with no vacuum; vacuum port on carb is covered 

-Put on all new fuel lines, with an inline fuel filter

-Gone through the electrical harness; everything looks ok

-Cleaned the carb multiple times; everything is clean including all jets and the black rubber diaphragm is in good condition. 

-Switched the stock needle for a KLX needle with help at the tech day

-Put on Mike s smog delete kit; smog port on carb is covered 

-New air filter

-New spark plug; looks like a good clean burn

-Valves were done a week ago and are well within tolerances now 

-Air/fuel mixture screw clean and set at 1 turns out

- I have not cleaned the gas tank, but all my filters look clean and none of the jets are clogged after running the bike

From everything I can tell this appears to be a carb issue, but with a perfectly clean carb that really makes no sense. I`m kind of at the end of the road with this thing; I have done everything I can think of and it just refuses to idle for me. I have cruised all the forums and all I find is clean your pilot jet , but I know that is not my problem. I m open to any possible solutions as to what the problem may be at this point so if you have an idea on what s going on fire away.

 

Thanks,

Brenton

[Jeff Saline]

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[Norm Keller]

 

+1 to Jeff's recommendations.

 

Have you access to  high pressure shop air?

 

I worked in the automotive industry for decades, much of the time doing carburetors and can confirm that my Dad's assertion, "You will cure more carb. problems with a blast of air than with all the carb. theory in the world!"

 

Dad was not short of carb. theory and was absolutely not advocating ignorance. His point was that there are so many unknowns in terms of the possibilities for blockage that one may not determine the problem area. The high pressure air doesn't care about any of that. It just ties to push out anything not nailed down. Of course, one needs to consider carb. theory so as not to direct air into areas which will be damaged.

 

FWIW, I'd replace the idle pilot unless you have accurately "jet drilled" to insure that the passage is open to intended diameter and length. Keep in mind that there are two popular ways to reduce flow through a jet: 1) make the hole smaller, and; 2) make the hole longer.

 

The main emulsion tube is another candidate.

 

What is fuel level? A very useful check is to place a clear tube onto the carb. bowl drain and open the drain screw with vacuum on the fuel petcock/petcock open. The fuel level should be around the float bowl gasket. If it's much lower that will cause a lean condition.

 

I also recommend that you turn the idle mixture screw out to 2-1/2 or 3 turns to see if the engine will idle. If it does, that's a sign that the idle passage is restricted, pilot too small or air leak into the intake.

 

You might try spraying intake cleaner or even something like WD40 (second choice over intake/carb. cleaner) onto the carb. to head boot and outlet end of carb. It the engine speeds up, you likely have a vacuum leak. The "O" ring between the carb. boot and head is a possible- cracked, nicked, displaced, wrong size.

 

The air cut-off diaphragm and "O" ring are possibles. Is the cut-off plunger sticking in the bore?

 

I doubt that fuel flow rate is the issue unless the restriction is at or in the carb. fuel inlet because it would run well enough for a short time until the fuel in the line is exhausted. If this is misunderstood, that may be a cause.  The fuel should flow about 1 quart/litre per minute from the hose with vacuum on the petcock.

 

 

[Eddie]

To add to Norms' cautions, some pilot jet holes are not round, either. They are sort of star-shaped. Drilling them out or using too aggressive a cleaning wire can damage them. -eddie

----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650] [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Sunday, June 01, 2014 12:54 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: 2008 KLR HELP!  

(snip) FWIW, I'd replace the idle pilot unless you have accurately "jet drilled" to insure that the passage is open to intended diameter and length. Keep in mind that there are two popular ways to reduce flow through a jet: 1) make the hole smaller, and; 2) make the hole longer.    

[bob row]

Gentlemen, I am about to embark on a test ride, but it would seem that the issue is fixed right now. I read a few threads on carb cleaning, but I had never seen the suggestion to actually blast air through the carb itself and that seems to have solved my problem! I hope it is resolved even though I will feel like a complete idiot if that was the only issue.  I will keep you guys posted after the ride, but i really appreciate all the help and quick replies. Brenton  On Sunday, June 1, 2014 11:59 AM, "'eddie' edgyver40@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   To add to Norms' cautions, some pilot jet holes are not round, either. They are sort of star-shaped. Drilling them out or using too aggressive a cleaning wire can damage them. -eddie

----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650] [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Sunday, June 01, 2014 12:54 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: 2008 KLR HELP!   (snip) FWIW, I'd replace the idle pilot unless you have accurately "jet drilled" to insure that the passage is open to intended diameter and length. Keep in mind that there are two popular ways to reduce flow through a jet: 1) make the hole smaller, and; 2) make the hole longer.    

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[mark ward]

BASICS, you said the bike was EXPERIENCED ("used"), So no telling how long it set. Did you use some Sea Foam to clean the carb etc.?   (I'm surprised we haven't had the annual  3 week sea foam debate.....Oops, I 'm thread. LOL) Some of us use it every spring or 2-3 of times a year, just as PMS. (Navy: PMS = Preventive Maintenance System) On Sunday, June 1, 2014 7:55 PM, "bob row haronyquistx31@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  Gentlemen, I am about to embark on a test ride, but it would seem that the issue is fixed right now. I read a few threads on carb cleaning, but I had never seen the suggestion to actually blast air through the carb itself and that seems to have solved my problem! I hope it is resolved even though I will feel like a complete idiot if that was the only issue.  I will keep you guys posted after the ride, but i really appreciate all the help and quick replies. Brenton  On Sunday, June 1, 2014 11:59 AM, "'eddie' edgyver40@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   To add to Norms' cautions, some pilot jet holes are not round, either. They are sort of star-shaped. Drilling them out or using too aggressive a cleaning wire can damage them. -eddie ----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650] [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Sunday, June 01, 2014 12:54 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: 2008 KLR HELP!   (snip) FWIW, I'd replace the idle pilot unless you have accurately "jet drilled" to insure that the passage is open to intended diameter and length. Keep in mind that there are two popular ways to reduce flow through a jet: 1) make the hole smaller, and; 2) make the hole longer.    

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[bob row]

Yes it did get a sea foam early on in the process, i just forgot to put it in my write up. It actually has a full mix of sea foam in the tank at the moment.   So I just got back from my ride, and for the first 10 minutes it ran absolutely perfect; but it quickly went right back to where it was, it dies as soon as it hits 2K Rpms. It will pop start if I am on a hill, but even then I have to twist the throttle hard and I am getting no power until it revs back up.  I took the entire carb apart and blasted every hole with high pressure air and carb cleaner, it is strange that it ran fine for a few minutes than quit again. When it cools down I will take the carb off and see if I can find any clogged areas from the fuel tank possibly.  Any other ideas? Brenton    On Sunday, June 1, 2014 5:11 PM, "mark ward nomad59@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   BASICS, you said the bike was EXPERIENCED ("used"), So no telling how long it set. Did you use some Sea Foam to clean the carb etc.?   (I'm surprised we haven't had the annual  3 week sea foam debate.....Oops, I 'm thread. LOL) Some of us use it every spring or 2-3 of times a year, just as PMS. (Navy: PMS = Preventive Maintenance System) On Sunday, June 1, 2014 7:55 PM, "bob row haronyquistx31@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  Gentlemen, I am about to embark on a test ride, but it would seem that the issue is fixed right now. I read a few threads on carb cleaning, but I had never seen the suggestion to actually blast air through the carb itself and that seems to have solved my problem! I hope it is resolved even though I will feel like a complete idiot if that was the only issue.  I will keep you guys posted after the ride, but i really appreciate all the help and quick replies. Brenton  On Sunday, June 1, 2014 11:59 AM, "'eddie' edgyver40@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   To add to Norms' cautions, some pilot jet holes are not round, either. They are sort of star-shaped. Drilling them out or using too aggressive a cleaning wire can damage them. -eddie ----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650] [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Sunday, June 01, 2014 12:54 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: 2008 KLR HELP!   (snip) FWIW, I'd replace the idle pilot unless you have accurately "jet drilled" to insure that the passage is open to intended diameter and length. Keep in mind that there are two popular ways to reduce flow through a jet: 1) make the hole smaller, and; 2) make the hole longer.    

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[RobertWichert]

Perhaps the slide isn't rising. That could be caused by a diaphragm leak or a plugged lifting hole. Robert P Wichert P.Eng. Inc. LEED AP, HERS II, CEA +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 On 6/1/2014 6:04 PM, bob row haronyquistx31@... [DSN_KLR650] wrote:

Yes it did get a sea foam early on in the process, i just forgot to put it in my write up. It actually has a full mix of sea foam in the tank at the moment. So I just got back from my ride, and for the first 10 minutes it ran absolutely perfect; but it quickly went right back to where it was, it dies as soon as it hits 2K Rpms. It will pop start if I am on a hill, but even then I have to twist the throttle hard and I am getting no power until it revs back up. I took the entire carb apart and blasted every hole with high pressure air and carb cleaner, it is strange that it ran fine for a few minutes than quit again. When it cools down I will take the carb off and see if I can find any clogged areas from the fuel tank possibly. Any other ideas? Brenton On Sunday, June 1, 2014 5:11 PM, "mark ward nomad59@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com wrote: BASICS, you said the bike was EXPERIENCED ("used"), So no telling how long it set. Did you use some Sea Foam to clean the carb etc.? (I'm surprised we haven't had the annual 3 week sea foam debate.....Oops, I 'm thread. LOL) Some of us use it every spring or 2-3 of times a year, just as PMS. (Navy: PMS = Preventive Maintenance System) On Sunday, June 1, 2014 7:55 PM, "bob row haronyquistx31@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com wrote: Gentlemen, I am about to embark on a test ride, but it would seem that the issue is fixed right now. I read a few threads on carb cleaning, but I had never seen the suggestion to actually blast air through the carb itself and that seems to have solved my problem! I hope it is resolved even though I will feel like a complete idiot if that was the only issue. I will keep you guys posted after the ride, but i really appreciate all the help and quick replies. Brenton On Sunday, June 1, 2014 11:59 AM, "'eddie' edgyver40@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com wrote: To add to Norms' cautions, some pilot jet holes are not round, either. They are sort of star-shaped. Drilling them out or using too aggressive a cleaning wire can damage them. -eddie ----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] normkel32@...%20[DSN_KLR650] [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Sunday, June 01, 2014 12:54 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: 2008 KLR HELP! (snip) FWIW, I'd replace the idle pilot unless you have accurately "jet drilled" to insure that the passage is open to intended diameter and length. Keep in mind that there are two popular ways to reduce flow through a jet: 1) make the hole smaller, and; 2) make the hole longer.

[mark ward]

Did I miss it or you not say..... Where are you? someone may be "near".  (KLR near = 250+- miles LOL) On Sunday, June 1, 2014 9:11 PM, "RobertWichert robert@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  Perhaps the slide isn't rising. That could be caused by a diaphragm leak or a plugged lifting hole. Robert P Wichert P.Eng. Inc. LEED AP, HERS II, CEA +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 On 6/1/2014 6:04 PM, bob row haronyquistx31@... [DSN_KLR650] wrote:   Yes it did get a sea foam early on in the process, i just forgot to put it in my write up. It actually has a full mix of sea foam in the tank at the moment.   So I just got back from my ride, and for the first 10 minutes it ran absolutely perfect; but it quickly went right back to where it was, it dies as soon as it hits 2K Rpms. It will pop start if I am on a hill, but even then I have to twist the throttle hard and I am getting no power until it revs back up.  I took the entire carb apart and blasted every hole with high pressure air and carb cleaner, it is strange that it ran fine for a few minutes than quit again. When it cools down I will take the carb off and see if I can find any clogged areas from the fuel tank possibly.  Any other ideas? Brenton    On Sunday, June 1, 2014 5:11 PM, "mark ward nomad59@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com wrote:   BASICS, you said the bike was EXPERIENCED ("used"), So no telling how long it set. Did you use some Sea Foam to clean the carb etc.?   (I'm surprised we haven't had the annual  3 week sea foam debate.....Oops, I 'm thread. LOL) Some of us use it every spring or 2-3 of times a year, just as PMS.  (Navy: PMS = Preventive Maintenance System) On Sunday, June 1, 2014 7:55 PM, "bob row haronyquistx31@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com wrote:   Gentlemen, I am about to embark on a test ride, but it would seem that the issue is fixed right now. I read a few threads on carb cleaning, but I had never seen the suggestion to actually blast air through the carb itself and that seems to have solved my problem! I hope it is resolved even though I will feel like a complete idiot if that was the only issue.  I will keep you guys posted after the ride, but i really appreciate all the help and quick replies. Brenton  On Sunday, June 1, 2014 11:59 AM, "'eddie' edgyver40@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com wrote:   To add to Norms' cautions, some pilot jet holes are not round, either. They are sort of star-shaped. Drilling them out or using too aggressive a cleaning wire can damage them. -eddie ----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] normkel32@...%20[DSN_KLR650] [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Sunday, June 01, 2014 12:54 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: 2008 KLR HELP!   (snip) FWIW, I'd replace the idle pilot unless you have accurately "jet drilled" to insure that the passage is open to intended diameter and length. Keep in mind that there are two popular ways to reduce flow through a jet: 1) make the hole smaller, and; 2) make the hole longer.    

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[Glenn Sturley]

Hi Bob, Reading your message I had a thought that it may not be carby related. I had a similar activity occur on an Xl250 I restored and turned out to be the ignition coil. When the coil got hot enough it would break down and I couldn't go any faster than 40kph and it would also stop running at all. In the end it just stopped. Maybe try a different coil that is known to be good.   Cheers Glenn  

----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] haronyquistx31@... [DSN_KLR650] [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com ; edgyver40@... ; nomad59@... [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, June 02, 2014 11:04 AM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: 2008 KLR HELP!   Yes it did get a sea foam early on in the process, i just forgot to put it in my write up. It actually has a full mix of sea foam in the tank at the moment.   So I just got back from my ride, and for the first 10 minutes it ran absolutely perfect; but it quickly went right back to where it was, it dies as soon as it hits 2K Rpms. It will pop start if I am on a hill, but even then I have to twist the throttle hard and I am getting no power until it revs back up.  I took the entire carb apart and blasted every hole with high pressure air and carb cleaner, it is strange that it ran fine for a few minutes than quit again. When it cools down I will take the carb off and see if I can find any clogged areas from the fuel tank possibly.  Any other ideas? Brenton    On Sunday, June 1, 2014 5:11 PM, "mark ward nomad59@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   BASICS, you said the bike was EXPERIENCED ("used"), So no telling how long it set. Did you use some Sea Foam to clean the carb etc.?   (I'm surprised we haven't had the annual  3 week sea foam debate.....Oops, I 'm thread. LOL) Some of us use it every spring or 2-3 of times a year, just as PMS.  (Navy: PMS = Preventive Maintenance System) On Sunday, June 1, 2014 7:55 PM, "bob row haronyquistx31@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   Gentlemen, I am about to embark on a test ride, but it would seem that the issue is fixed right now. I read a few threads on carb cleaning, but I had never seen the suggestion to actually blast air through the carb itself and that seems to have solved my problem! I hope it is resolved even though I will feel like a complete idiot if that was the only issue.  I will keep you guys posted after the ride, but i really appreciate all the help and quick replies. Brenton  On Sunday, June 1, 2014 11:59 AM, "'eddie' edgyver40@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   To add to Norms' cautions, some pilot jet holes are not round, either. They are sort of star-shaped. Drilling them out or using too aggressive a cleaning wire can damage them. -eddie ----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650] [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Sunday, June 01, 2014 12:54 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: 2008 KLR HELP!   (snip) FWIW, I'd replace the idle pilot unless you have accurately "jet drilled" to insure that the passage is open to intended diameter and length. Keep in mind that there are two popular ways to reduce flow through a jet: 1) make the hole smaller, and; 2) make the hole longer.    

No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3955/7605 - Release Date: 06/01/14