klr650 with zx10 motor

[Mike Peplinski]

After wearing out the "delete" key on those silly exhaust messages I agree-YIPPEE. Now all we need is a tire thread! On the Rotella thing-I just drained the oil on my KLR after 1500 miles. I mixed synthetic Rotella with dino 50/50. The drain oil was predictably black but even though it was very hot, it had a remarkably high viscosity. Unlike my car oil which drains like thinned out water, this stuff actually had some body to it. I'll be going to straight syn on the next change and have to back up the statement that it maintains viscosity.

>From: Eric Lee Green >To: genez11 >CC: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] oil >Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 07:42:43 -0700 > >genez11 wrote: > > >Is there a certain oil to use in the KLR? > >I use 20-50 Castrol > > > > > >WOOHOO! An oil thread! Thank god, now we can kill the exhaust thread >once and for all . > >After extensive research into the characteristics of various oils, I >have found the One True Oil for a KLR in my climate: Shell Rotella 5W40 >synthetic. Okay, there's oils with better high-temperature and >low-temperature characteristics (think true-PAO oils like Amsoil or >possibly Mobil 1), but the Rotella exhibits no viscosity breakdown, has >excellent film strength, and has a great additive package for a >motorcycle, with no friction enhancers to cause clutch slippage and a >high phosphorous content for initial startup. All for around $3 a quart >in a gallon jug at your local Wal-Mart. Plus a kickin' web site at >http://www.rotella.com . > >Let the oil wars begin! > >-E > > > > >Archive Quicksearch at: >http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

[Craig]

Okay so I'm rethinking the 10W-40 Valvoline I just picked-up from from Checkers (it all they have). Eric mentioned the 5W-40 synthetic was perfect for his climate. What climate? I'm in Tucson, it's VERY hot in summer and gets pretty cold in winter. Do you think the 5W-40 would still be suitable? I'm liking the synthetic idea. Thanks from another guy who is greatful there are still others out there willing to ask the "obvious" questions.

[scott quillen]

Personally, I wouldn't run a 5W oil in a VERY hot climate during the summer on my KLR. I believe I'm running 15w in my KLR. MANY different strokes for different folks. Scott Craig wrote: Okay so I'm rethinking the 10W-40 Valvoline I just picked-up from from Checkers (it all they have). Eric mentioned the 5W-40 synthetic was perfect for his climate. What climate? I'm in Tucson, it's VERY hot in summer and gets pretty cold in winter. Do you think the 5W-40 would still be suitable? I'm liking the synthetic idea. Thanks from another guy who is greatful there are still others out there willing to ask the "obvious" questions. Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Yahoo! Groups Links __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Eric Lee Green]

Craig wrote:

>Okay so I'm rethinking the 10W-40 Valvoline I just picked-up from from >Checkers (it all they have). > >Eric mentioned the 5W-40 synthetic was perfect for his climate. What >climate? > >

Coastal California with occasional trips across the Central Desert. Temperatures range from approximately 45F to 105F.

>I'm in Tucson, it's VERY hot in summer and gets pretty cold in winter. >Do you think the 5W-40 would still be suitable? I'm liking the >synthetic idea. > >

For a water-cooled bike it's fine. For an air-cooled bike in the winter, it'd be okay too. For an air cooled bike in summer in Tucson, no way. For an air cooled bike in Tucson I'd use something like the Mobil Red Cap 15W50 synthetic, AMSOIL, or, if my bike tended to run *really* hot, Red Line (which is a rather odd formulation that I wouldn't normally put into my bike, but it holds up to high temperatures with virtually no change in viscosity and has a tremendously high bake point). Rotella 5W40's bake-off point is pretty good for what is basically a highly processed dino juice, but is not as good as a full PAO synthetic or Red Line. The KLR is water-cooled, though, so I wouldn't have any problem running the Rotella 5W40 in Tucson in the summertime. Note that this is a perfectionist speaking. In reality, running a good-quality 20W50 dino juice in the summer in Tucson (and a 10W40 in the winter) will do you fine with a water-cooled bike like the KLR. It'll turn to 10W40 over the course of 2000 miles as the viscosity enhancers shear, but as long as you change your oil every 2000 miles that should still provide plenty of protection. I run the Rotella 5W40 mostly because a) it's cheaper than other synthetics, and b) I'm a bit of a perfectionist and want the enhanced viscosity stability of a synthetic oil in my bike, but a CHEAP perfectionist . Not because it's the only oil that will work. -E

[Eric Lee Green]

scott quillen wrote:

>Personally, I wouldn't run a 5W oil >

Note that this doesn't mean what you think it means for a synthetic oil. Non-synthetic oils have waxes that cause them to thicken at low temperatures and thin out a high temperatures. Synthetic oils don't. They maintain a consistent viscosity across a wide temperature range, i.e., in this case, Rotella 5W40 synthetic provides the protection of a 40W oil at all temperatures in its operational range of roughly 0F to 280F. I've looked at specs like film strength, flowability, etc. for the synthetics and they basically maintain the same viscosity at all temperatures. Specs created to describe wax-filled dinosaur juice do a horribly inadequate job of describing the characteristics of synthetic oils. This is especially true when you move up to PAO-based synthetics like Amsoil, or the even wierder exotics like Red Line, which maintain a consistent viscosity over temperature ranges that are truly astounding. The only thing that the '5W' for a synthetic oil means is that it will flow at low temperatures (i.e., it doesn't have waxes to cause it to thicken at low temperatures). That's it. It has nothing to do with its ability to protect at high temperatures. -E

[Conall]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Eric Lee Green wrote:

> > > The only thing that the '5W' for a synthetic oil means is that it

will

> flow at low temperatures (i.e., it doesn't have waxes to cause it to > thicken at low temperatures). That's it. It has nothing to do with

its

> ability to protect at high temperatures. > > -E

Eric is right, and this is also the reason I'm OK with say, 5W-40, or 5W-30. When they say 5W-whatever, the "W" stands for winter, and means that the oil flows like a 5 Weight in the winter. The W does not stand for weight. So 5W-30 flows different than say 5-30. I get the winter rated oils. Shell Rotella T both synthetic and non-synthetic T. Mix the two and you have a synthetic blend 5W-40, that flows like 5 (weight ) when it's cold and like a 40 weight in the summer. I'm also cheap, would be using Castrol GTX like i did 10-12 yrs ago but at current prices I switched to diesel oils like Rotella. Conall

[Rick McCauley]

This is my understanding from oil viscocity studies that I have read. 5W ? oil flows like 5 weight becuase it is. 10W ? flows like 10 weight because it is, and so forth. It is the polymars in multi weight oil that come into play here. Polymars make oil protect like a higher viscocity oil than the oil actually is. However polymars break down faster than the base oil. The wider the spread in the numbers, the more polymars it takes to make it work. In other words there are more polymars in 10W 50 than there are in 10W 30. So 10W 50 will lose it protection value faster than 10W 30, but the polymars in 10W 50 protect better early on because their are more of them. If you use a wide ratio, like 10W 50, you will have better high temp protection, but you may want to change your oil more often. I am no expert on this subject, and don't pretend to be. But this comes from considerable reading I have done trying to figure out which oil works best. If you can correct me, please do so. I am always interested in better protection. Just to let you know, Mobil comes out on top in virtually every test and category. I use Mobil 1 Motorcycle specific oil. Rick A17 Conall wrote: --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Eric Lee Green wrote:

> > > The only thing that the '5W' for a synthetic oil means is that it

will

> flow at low temperatures (i.e., it doesn't have waxes to cause it to > thicken at low temperatures). That's it. It has nothing to do with

its

> ability to protect at high temperatures. > > -E

Eric is right, and this is also the reason I'm OK with say, 5W-40, or 5W-30. When they say 5W-whatever, the "W" stands for winter, and means that the oil flows like a 5 Weight in the winter. The W does not stand for weight. So 5W-30 flows different than say 5-30. I get the winter rated oils. Shell Rotella T both synthetic and non-synthetic T. Mix the two and you have a synthetic blend 5W-40, that flows like 5 (weight ) when it's cold and like a 40 weight in the summer. I'm also cheap, would be using Castrol GTX like i did 10-12 yrs ago but at current prices I switched to diesel oils like Rotella. Conall Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Eric Lee Green]

Rick McCauley wrote:

>This is my understanding from oil viscocity studies that I have read. > >5W ? oil flows like 5 weight becuase it is. 10W ? flows like 10 weight because it is, and so forth. >

What you state is pretty much correct for dinosaur juice, but utterly inapplicable to synthetic oils. Unlike dinosaur juice, synthetic oils don't thin out when they get hot, because they don't have the waxes and aromatics contained in dino juice, thus do not need viscosity enhancers to keep them from becoming worthless at high temperatures. What is more applicable is film strength, clingability, and flow rate. Even the cheaper synthetics like Shell Rotella 5W40 lack the waxes and aromatics that cause dino juice to thin out at high temperatures, thus will maintain a consistent viscosity over a far larger temperature range than dino juice and will do it for longer because they have no (or at least fewer and more durable) viscosity enhancers to shear. As I stated elsewhere, it just isn't correct to apply dino juice viscosity standards to synthetics, because they are simply different beasts where viscosity is concerned. The API ratings applied to synthetics are basically marketing gimmicks intended to allow them to meet manufacturer's recommendations for viscosity ratings, rather than being something that gives you a good understanding of their basic lubrication characteristics at the various operational temperatures of a motor vehicle. BTW, the viscosity enhancers in dino juice do *not* lubricate. They simply keep the oil thick enough to stick to the parts at high temperatures. Otherwise the oil would be so watery that it'd just run down to the crankcase and allow metal-to-metal contact. -E

[JRC]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "genez11" wrote:

> Is there a certain oil to use in the KLR? > I use 20-50 Castrol

There's no "certain" oil to use, if you mean brand. Follow the owners manual on viscosity and type - bearing in mind you have a wet clutch. As to synthetic vs non, that's almost a religious debate on the forum. I really like synthetic in my cars, which are subject to cold starting. I can tell the difference in the winter. On my bikes, I've tried synthetic and switched back - couldn't detect a difference.

[Blake Sobiloff]

On Aug 15, 2005, at 4:22 PM, Eric Lee Green wrote:

> As I stated elsewhere, it just isn't correct to apply dino juice > viscosity standards to synthetics, because they are simply different > beasts where viscosity is concerned. The API ratings applied to > synthetics are basically marketing gimmicks intended to allow them to > meet manufacturer's recommendations for viscosity ratings, rather than > being something that gives you a good understanding of their basic > lubrication characteristics at the various operational temperatures > of a > motor vehicle.

Eric, you're over-applying your knowledge of waxes and aromatics--or I'm misreading what you're trying to say. ALL oils change viscosity as their temperatures change--check out the viscosities listed for your favorite oil: . At 40 degrees C the oil is 90 cSt, while at 100 degrees C it's only 15 cSt. The same kind of spreads appear in ALL oils, regardless of whether they are synthetic or conventional. They all thin as they are heated (until they start to phase change at around 150 degrees C). The API's ratings are based on ranges of viscosity measured in centiStokes (cSt). They are not a "marketing gimmick." Viscosity changes as the temperature changes, so that's why you always see a measurement in cSt list the temperature at which it was obtained. See http://sobiloff.home.mindspring.com/klr ... _table.gif> for a table listing the common ranges for motor oils. Our motorcycles want an oil that's between 12.5 cSt and 21.9 (40- to 50-weight, respectively). Anything thicker than that is too thick and less than optimal. Anything thinner than that is bad, too. Assuming you ride your motorcycle long enough to fully heat the oil, a 40- weight or 50-weight oil will make your bike happy. -- Blake Sobiloff San Jose, CA (USA)