dakkar 2011

[Jeff Saline]

#ygrps-yiv-1787165061 .ygrps-yiv-1787165061ygrp-photo-title { CLEAR:both;FONT-SIZE:smaller;OVERFLOW:hidden;WIDTH:75px;HEIGHT:15px;TEXT-ALIGN:center;} #ygrps-yiv-1787165061 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1787165061ygrp-photo { BORDER-RIGHT:black 1px solid;BACKGROUND-POSITION:center 50%;BORDER-TOP:black 1px solid;BORDER-LEFT:black 1px solid;WIDTH:62px;BORDER-BOTTOM:black 1px solid;BACKGROUND-REPEAT:no-repeat;HEIGHT:62px;BACKGROUND-COLOR:white;} #ygrps-yiv-1787165061 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1787165061photo-title A { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1787165061 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1787165061photo-title A:active { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1787165061 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1787165061photo-title A:hover { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1787165061 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1787165061photo-title A:visited { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1787165061 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1787165061attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1787165061attach-row { CLEAR:both;} #ygrps-yiv-1787165061 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1787165061attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1787165061attach-row DIV { FLOAT:left;} #ygrps-yiv-1787165061 P { CLEAR:both;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-BOTTOM:3px;OVERFLOW:hidden;PADDING-TOP:15px;} #ygrps-yiv-1787165061 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1787165061ygrp-file { WIDTH:30px;} #ygrps-yiv-1787165061 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1787165061attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1787165061attach-row DIV DIV A { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1787165061 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1787165061attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1787165061attach-row DIV DIV SPAN { FONT-WEIGHT:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-1787165061 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1787165061ygrp-file-title { FONT-WEIGHT:bold;} #ygrps-yiv-1787165061 DIV { MARGIN:0px;} On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 13:41:00 -0800 (PST) Marc writes:   You have to do the 22 cent mod. It's a must for all year KLR's. Kawi leans out the bike so much that they are almost un-drivable. <><><><><><> <><><><><><>   Marc,   I'll disagree with you on this point.  My KLR has a stock fuel system other than I've added an in line fuel filter.  In the air system I'm running a No Toil air filter which might make the fuel air mixture even a little leaner than stock.  My bike runs well and is very "drivable".   Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412  South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT   . . ____________________________________________________________ [b]Home Refinance 3.8% FIXED[/b] No Hidden Fees, Easy Approvals & Better Terms-Free Quotes-3.9% APR! Mortgage.LendGo.com

[Marc]

Jeff, While my 08 ran ok in stock form, after the 22 cent mod it starts better and runs smoother. I have a uni-filter and still seems lean. I have a klx needle that will go in when time permits. It should help. You have a pre 08 KLR correct? It may be that they are set richer. Thanks for the reply. Marc [b]From:[/b] Jeff Saline [b]To:[/b] marchaug2000@... [b]Cc:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Tue, January 18, 2011 9:10:00 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Cold Weather starting #ygrps-yiv-2070605452 .ygrps-yiv-2070605452ygrp-photo-title { CLEAR:both;FONT-SIZE:smaller;OVERFLOW:hidden;WIDTH:75px;HEIGHT:15px;TEXT-ALIGN:center;} #ygrps-yiv-2070605452 DIV.ygrps-yiv-2070605452ygrp-photo { BORDER-RIGHT:black 1px solid;BACKGROUND-POSITION:center 50%;BORDER-TOP:black 1px solid;BORDER-LEFT:black 1px solid;WIDTH:62px;BORDER-BOTTOM:black 1px solid;BACKGROUND-REPEAT:no-repeat;HEIGHT:62px;BACKGROUND-COLOR:white;} #ygrps-yiv-2070605452 DIV.ygrps-yiv-2070605452photo-title A { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-2070605452 DIV.ygrps-yiv-2070605452photo-title A:active { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-2070605452 DIV.ygrps-yiv-2070605452photo-title A:hover { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-2070605452 DIV.ygrps-yiv-2070605452photo-title A:visited { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-2070605452 DIV.ygrps-yiv-2070605452attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-2070605452attach-row { CLEAR:both;} #ygrps-yiv-2070605452 DIV.ygrps-yiv-2070605452attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-2070605452attach-row DIV { FLOAT:left;} #ygrps-yiv-2070605452 P { CLEAR:both;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-BOTTOM:3px;OVERFLOW:hidden;PADDING-TOP:15px;} #ygrps-yiv-2070605452 DIV.ygrps-yiv-2070605452ygrp-file { WIDTH:30px;} #ygrps-yiv-2070605452 DIV.ygrps-yiv-2070605452attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-2070605452attach-row DIV DIV A { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-2070605452 DIV.ygrps-yiv-2070605452attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-2070605452attach-row DIV DIV SPAN { FONT-WEIGHT:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-2070605452 DIV.ygrps-yiv-2070605452ygrp-file-title { FONT-WEIGHT:bold;} #ygrps-yiv-2070605452 DIV { MARGIN:0px;} On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 13:41:00 -0800 (PST) Marc writes:   You have to do the 22 cent mod. It's a must for all year KLR's. Kawi leans out the bike so much that they are almost un-drivable. <><><><><><> <><><><><><>   Marc,   I'll disagree with you on this point.  My KLR has a stock fuel system other than I've added an in line fuel filter.  In the air system I'm running a No Toil air filter which might make the fuel air mixture even a little leaner than stock.  My bike runs well and is very "drivable".   Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412  South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT   . . ____________________________________________________________ [b]Home Refinance 3.8% FIXED[/b] No Hidden Fees, Easy Approvals & Better Terms-Free Quotes-3.9% APR! Mortgage.LendGo.com

[Jeff Khoury]

#ygrps-yiv-572530363 p {margin:0;}I used to think so as well, then I did some in-depth research into the science-y stuff about lubrication in engines. I've posted the link many times, so I'll spare you all another round.  But essentially it boils down to this: Most engines are designed to run with an oil viscosity of around 10-15cS.  At cold temps (engine-wise, meaning under 150F), 20W oil is way thicker than that, it won't pump very well and it fails to properly lubricate your engine.  Your oil pressure is too high, flow is too low and this leads to the common consensus amongst engineers that 90% of engine wear is happening at startup. Now, when they're at normal operating temperature, a 40 and a 50 do not vary between them that much.  A 40 (second number) will be 12.5-16.2cS and a 50 will be 16.3-21.8cS.  That's not that big of a difference, however the 50 is outside the normal design range of your engine. However, at startup the difference is dramatic: Your 20W-50 at 75F will measure something about 200, and 5W-40 will measure about 70.  70 is still way too thick, but it's a heck of a lot closer to 10 than 200 is.  When the temp is 40F, 20W-50 is too thick to even measure, yet a good synth 5w-40 still flows pretty well. So, in summation: 20W-50 is too thick even at operating temp, but not too terribly.  At startup, it is atrocious.  On a cold morning it is beyond atrocious. I have an '09 and I run Rotella T6 5W-40.  It consumes very little oil unless I'm flogging it at 80MPH+ for long periods.  I've also noticed that the consumption may not be coming from seepage past the rings as I initially thought, but rather being sucked up through the pcv tube into the airbox.  After a particularly fast stretch of I-5, I stopped for gas and noticed a big pool of oil on the ground.  I nearly had a heart attack until I noticed it was coming from the airbox drain.  A side effect of the PCV valve mod is that any oil that gets sucked into the airbox cannot run back down into the crankcase when the engine slows down, but then just accumulates until it runs out the airbox drain.   -Jeff Khoury [b]From: [/b]"Marc" [b]To: [/b]"DSN KLR650" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent: [/b]Tuesday, January 18, 2011 8:44:54 AM [b]Subject: [/b]Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Cold Weather starting   I disagree.   I run 20w-50 in my 08. It has been a great preventative for the 08 oil burner issues. I would not run 5w-40 unless you are in very cold temps.     [b]From:[/b] Jeff Khoury [b]To:[/b] DSN KLR650 DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Tue, January 18, 2011 10:26:52 AM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Cold Weather starting   Good Oil, wrong weight.  You can run 10w-40 or 5w-40 year-round.  Your engine will thank you. -Jeff Khoury [b]From: [/b]"Keith Pipkins" [b]To: [/b]"DSN KLR650" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent: [/b]Monday, January 17, 2011 1:22:32 PM [b]Subject: [/b][DSN_KLR650] Re: Cold Weather starting   Well,...I think I received some very good information about my KLR not starting when the temps are below 50 F.  I checked the battery off the tender and the voltage was 12.6 vdc after about an hour. Voltage on the tender was 13.2 volts.  So the battery seems OK. Can't drill out the carb mixture adjustment just yet.  I have an unheated building, but with very good ventilation.  But I did check and that mod has not been done.  Just waiting for warmer temps in Northern Arkansas and I'll get that mod done. I did try to start the bike again and paid attention to the speed of the engine turning over.  Slow, very, very  slow compared to normal.  Well, I'm running Mobile 1 20w50, best oil,...right?   So,...I tilted the bike upright and checked the oil sight glass.  No oil !  But, slowly, the oil came up to the top mark.  Did I say, slowly?  Really slow !  I'm thinking the suggestion of thick oil is probably the easiest to try.   I'll change the oil this week and try again next cold spell. Thanks for the suggestions.  Keith Natural Dam, AR 

[revmaaatin]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Khoury wrote:

> > Ron, > > Don't feel alone, I don't "get" it either... and I'm in their target demographic. > > White, male, midwestern middle-class. > > Maybe my hillbilly gene is malfunctioning. > > -Jeff Khoury >

I spent the spring of 85 teaching Jet pukes how to kill helo's out of USMC-B 29 Palms and USMC-AS YUMA. Great fun. Don't kid your self, a well trained, and properly armed helo is a dangerous thing against a jet pilot. yet, I digress. On this particular day, I had the afternoon off and it was Spring Season of 1985, we got tickets to see the Padres in Yuma, AZ. After a few minutes, I said to my friend, 'Now what?' "TWO BEERS" he shouted. Oh, It was not about baseball, but a nice afternoon with "TWO BEERS". and repeat. A lot like Nascar--I didn't get it either. I think it is mostly about the beer. revmaaatin.

[Marc]

[kconcour1]

All the math sounds very logical and well researched. Unfortunately logic is a way to go wrong with confidence. Whether that is the case here I couldn't say. While I only have anecdotal evidence in 4 bikes 2x ~175k miles in one motor on a Concours a 2001 and 1994) and 45k miles in a 1999 KLR bought used with 12k and a bought new 2008 KLR with 46k miles currently on the clock. All of the above motorcycles are still on the road (I no longer own any but the 2008 except the 1994 Concours with 275k miles which I killed in a tank slapper on I-95 still went 750 miles to get me home but not worth fixing). None of them exhibit any unusual signs of wear. All I used in them after the first change in was synthetic oil 20-50 every 6k miles until all I could get was 15-50(currently run NAPA brand synthetic 15-50). As soon as I put 5-50 (all I could find when I needed it) in the 2008 KLR this summer it went from using 1 quart per 3k miles to 1 quart in 500 miles (prompting a change @ 4k). I did kill the original engine in the 1994 Concours. It dumped all the water out on I-270 going around DC but that is another story on temp sensor placement and 20 degree temps. Well that and having to get to work 180 miles down the road the next morning which it did. Just replaced the engine with a used one never even opened the old one probably could have saved it but wasn't worth the time. In short all my experience with heavier oils runs contrary to what you are saying. Whether this is from the way I ride or some other factor I couldn't say. But all cranked/started right up down to 6 degree temps. It "may" make a difference if the battery is already going down hill but that is the only way it will really make a difference IMO. Mike Nasca Just so you know haven't owned a car since 1984. So the only way I was getting to work was on the bike or bicycle. Even if there was 6 inches of snow on the ground. Can be done but better have crash bars on the Concours because you will be falling over, every now and again.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Khoury wrote: > > I used to think so as well, then I did some in-depth research into the science-y stuff about lubrication in engines. > > I've posted the link many times, so I'll spare you all another round. But essentially it boils down to this: > > Most engines are designed to run with an oil viscosity of around 10-15cS. At cold temps (engine-wise, meaning under 150F), 20W oil is way thicker than that, it won't pump very well and it fails to properly lubricate your engine. Your oil pressure is too high, flow is too low and this leads to the common consensus amongst engineers that 90% of engine wear is happening at startup. > > Now, when they're at normal operating temperature, a 40 and a 50 do not vary between them that much. A 40 (second number) will be 12.5-16.2cS and a 50 will be 16.3-21.8cS. That's not that big of a difference, however the 50 is outside the normal design range of your engine. > > However, at startup the difference is dramatic: Your 20W-50 at 75F will measure something about 200, and 5W-40 will measure about 70. 70 is still way too thick, but it's a heck of a lot closer to 10 than 200 is. When the temp is 40F, 20W-50 is too thick to even measure, yet a good synth 5w-40 still flows pretty well. > > So, in summation: 20W-50 is too thick even at operating temp, but not too terribly. At startup, it is atrocious. On a cold morning it is beyond atrocious. > > I have an '09 and I run Rotella T6 5W-40. It consumes very little oil unless I'm flogging it at 80MPH+ for long periods. I've also noticed that the consumption may not be coming from seepage past the rings as I initially thought, but rather being sucked up through the pcv tube into the airbox. After a particularly fast stretch of I-5, I stopped for gas and noticed a big pool of oil on the ground. I nearly had a heart attack until I noticed it was coming from the airbox drain. A side effect of the PCV valve mod is that any oil that gets sucked into the airbox cannot run back down into the crankcase when the engine slows down, but then just accumulates until it runs out the airbox drain. > > > > -Jeff Khoury