nklr [dsn_klr650] petrol vs: mobil 1

[Jeff Khoury]

#ygrps-yiv-878835613 p {margin:0;}Quote: "I read that thin oils like 10-20weight are a [b]scam by the automakers[/b] to up mileage to meet CAFE requirements." That should have been your first indication to check the qualifications of the person making the claim.  As soon as I hear "It's a scam!" or "Conspiracy!", it immediately raises red flags as to the qualifications of the person making the statement.  Chances are they're heavily invested in Reynolds Aluminum or are currently wearing an armadillo on their head. http://bit.ly/cVGahf Seriously.  I quoted articles by two Ph.D.s, one of which is perfectly fine with putting 0w-20 in cars that cost more than I make in several years, like Ferraris, Lamborghinis and Maybachs.  If it comes down to believing him or Joe the grease monkey... I'm going with Bob. Quote: "Synthetic oil is usually thinner and if oil consumption is an issue..." "Thickness", or viscosity is a function of the grade ("weight") of the oil, regardless of the base stock.  -Jeff Khoury [b]From: [/b]"Jeffrey" [b]To: [/b]"DSN KLR650" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent: [/b]Tuesday, October 26, 2010 9:04:51 AM [b]Subject: [/b]Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Petrol vs: Mobil 1   I read that thin oils like 10-20weight are a scam by the automakers to up mileage to meet CAFE requirements. Synthetic oil is usually thinner and if oil consumption is an issue... Older high miles KLRs(and 08s) can benefit from thicker oil so you don't have to stop often to top up...or run out of oil and blow up your engine. In SoCal I prefer 20-50w in the summer though getting harder to find esp. on sale. So, I mostly run 10-40w or 15-45w diesel. Cheap auto part house brands are fine if they are stamped with the same ratings as brand names. House brands aren't made by Oreilly/Kragen/Autozone. Most are made by the same refiners that make Valvoline/Ashland etc. Just like gasoline. Shell, ARCO, Exxom etc. share/trade refinery output. Jeffrey #3

[Jeffrey]

NO http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/518/motor-oils Viscosity and Wear Thinner oils have less drag, and therefore less friction and wear. Right? Perhaps in the test engine or engines that experience normal operation. But somewhat thicker oils may offer more protection for more severe operations such as driving through mountains, pulling a boat, dusty conditions, short trips, high rpm, overloading, overheating and overcooling. Any abrasive particles equal to or larger than the oil film thickness will cause wear. Filters are necessary to keep contaminants small. The other side of the equation is oil film thickness. Thicker oil films can accommodate larger contaminants.

[Jeff Khoury]

#ygrps-yiv-1452847680 p {margin:0;}Bearings are bearings.  The ones used in the KLR are no different than those used in cars. Nowadays car engines are approaching motorcycles in HP/l, operating RPM, etc.  There's nothing "Magic" or "Special" about motorcycle engines, apart from having the common sump. -Jeff Khoury [b]From: [/b]"David Bowden" [b]To: [/b]"Jeffrey" [b]Cc: [/b]"DSN KLR650" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent: [/b]Tuesday, October 26, 2010 9:49:33 AM [b]Subject: [/b]Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Petrol vs: Mobil 1   There is a huge difference in motorcycle use oil and auto use oil. Anti-foam agents and high heat additives are just two. There is shearing factor for the bearings and many other mechanical differences between cars and motorcycles.  Do some research. I'll never use car oil again in a motorcycle.  -----Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 26, 2010, at 9:04 AM, "Jeffrey" wrote:

  I read that thin oils like 10-20weight are a scam by the automakers to up mileage to meet CAFE requirements. Synthetic oil is usually thinner and if oil consumption is an issue... Older high miles KLRs(and 08s) can benefit from thicker oil so you don't have to stop often to top up...or run out of oil and blow up your engine. In SoCal I prefer 20-50w in the summer though getting harder to find esp. on sale. So, I mostly run 10-40w or 15-45w diesel. Cheap auto part house brands are fine if they are stamped with the same ratings as brand names. House brands aren't made by Oreilly/Kragen/Autozone. Most are made by the same refiners that make Valvoline/Ashland etc. Just like gasoline. Shell, ARCO, Exxom etc. share/trade refinery output. Jeffrey #3

[Jeff Khoury]

#ygrps-yiv-389070701 p {margin:0;}I see we will probably be going on about this for some time. Look at the relative viscosities of oil (in centistokes) at room temperature vs operating temperature.  At operating temperatures, and ESPECIALLY at extreme temperatures are not very different at all.  The important part is the COLD temperatures where most wear takes place, you need an oil that will actually PUMP instead of sit there and be honey. If your engine is designed to run at say, 10cS viscosity, which would be worse? At 75F, a 20W oil would measure about 170cS.  Your oil pump can barely move that, remember, it's designed for [b]10cS![/b] Whereas a 0W-40 would be around 60cS at room temp... much better at startup where 90+% of your engine wear happens. Once the oil reaches 212F, the second number is all that we're concerned about: From SAE J300, viscosities at 212 F... 20, 5.6 to 9.2 30, 9.3 - 12.4 40, 12.5 - 16.2 50, 16.3 - 21.8 60, 21.9 - 26.1 Not that big of a difference, huh?  But we paid a HUGE price at startup for that. At 302F, (heavy load, "extreme" duty) 20, 2.6 30, 2.9 40, 2.9 - 3.7 50, 3.7 60, 3.7 Up here when you're flogging the crap out of your engine, there's very little difference at all between a 40 and a 50. -Jeff Khoury [b]From: [/b]"Jeffrey" [b]To: [/b]"DSN KLR650" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent: [/b]Tuesday, October 26, 2010 10:23:07 AM [b]Subject: [/b][DSN_KLR650] Re: Petrol vs: Mobil 1   NO http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/518/motor-oils Viscosity and Wear Thinner oils have less drag, and therefore less friction and wear. Right? Perhaps in the test engine or engines that experience normal operation. But somewhat thicker oils may offer more protection for more severe operations such as driving through mountains, pulling a boat, dusty conditions, short trips, high rpm, overloading, overheating and overcooling. Any abrasive particles equal to or larger than the oil film thickness will cause wear. Filters are necessary to keep contaminants small. The other side of the equation is oil film thickness. Thicker oil films can accommodate larger contaminants.

[goluxgo]

A consideration when buying oil for a motorcycle are the amounts of zinc and phosphorous they contain. These are extreme pressure anti wear elements and play a major role in reducing wear on sliding surfaces such as cam lobes and also smooth transmission shifting. They are largely non existent in 10-30 and 10-40 motor oils labeled energy conserving as they can shorten the life of catalytic converters. They are present in 20-50 engine oil and 15-40 diesel oil. Neither of which have the energy conserving designation on the bottle. Larry.

[Tengai Mark Van Horn]

I just turned 60,000 miles on my Tengai. I've been running Agip full synthetic 5W50 car oil since 30K. No ThermoBob and ZERO oil consumption between oil changes (3K mile intervals). Mark At 2:37 PM +0000 10/26/10, Jeffrey wrote:

>Easy to change oil on a KLR >Save money >Dinosaur juice continues to improve/evolve catchup > > >Fewer oil changes >Blow money >Easier starting in cold weather >Clutch slippage risk if not moto synthetic > >If you are love with your bike enough to add a Thermo Bob >then you might as well use synthetic. > >I have heard of very few KLR oil related failures. > >If I roast/ride very hard on my KLR, I change the conventional oil >in it with whatever conventional decent oil is on sale. AVERAGE >COST $2 A QUART AND AND $3.5O FOR AN EMGO FILTER if I change it. >SYNTHETIC GOES FOR $6 A QUART > >SO, 9 DOLLARS PER OIL AND FILTER CHANGE VERSUS $18 DOLLARS SYNTHETIC > >IF YOU CHANGE YOUR OIL HALF AS MUCH WITH SYNTHETIC AND SYNTHETIC >STAYS GOOD TWICE AS LONG; NO DIFFERENCE!

[guymanbro]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "klrfan" wrote:

> > I have 1,500 miles on my 09 KLR, thinking about switching to full synthetic engine oil, thoughts? > > Thanks, Doug >

Trollin, trolling, trollin, Keep them dogies trollin... Caught a bunch too! da Vermonster

[Jeffrey]

And synthetic is thinner than conventional. That is how synthetic flows better at low temp. Later model bikes 08 and beyond have catalytic converters. So, dinosaur juice is still the way to go for older bikes. I like Valvoline racing oil(additive package is probably bad for catalytic converters) and see it on sale sometimes. I also like the conventional diesel oils. They are made to stand up to filthy diesel fuel and turbos. Dinosaur juice is a hard sale in cold climates but it can be thinned with Marvel Mystery Oil; though if I was in Wisconsin, Chicago or Alaska etc, I would go synthetic.

[Eric J Foster]

Easy to change oil on a KLR: Plus 1 Save money: Fail You can run more mileage before oil breakdown, plus if it truly lessens wear... Dinosaur juice continues to improve/evolve catchup: Plus 1, but it still aint synth. Fewer oil changes: Plus 1. Blow money: Fail. Kinda goes against the last three, don't it? Easier starting in cold weather: Plus 10. Clutch slippage risk if not moto synthetic: Fail. ANY synth wil work in a bike as long as it meets the viscosity requirements and it isn't badged "Energy Conserving". VERY overblown wives tale. E

[skypilot110]

Not one flake of snow, No ice on the river and no real frost yet but already we have a monster oil thread rolling. Does this mean we are all getting older My input. Synth flows at low temp when Dinosours stay sleeping. This means your bearings are lubed as soon as the engine starts vs. a minute later. Also produces less or no carbon which is abrassive but not captured by oil filters since it is too small. Do what Jeff said and go to Walmart for the Rotella T6 full synth for > $20/gallon. Leave the Dinosaurs to run on the treadmill in the summer if you miss them **********portion of prior post follows************* Point 5: Synthetic oil can be had for a decent price if you know where to look. I use Rotella T6 full synth (a group III full synth oil) available at Wal-Mart for 19 bucks a gallon. It is a Diesel Truck oil, and is JASO MA (motorcycle) certified for wet clutches. The qualities that make a good diesel truck oil also make a good motorcycle oil, such as high shear resistance, high temperature tolerance and extended drain capability. It is available in 5w-40 which is an excellent weight for most motorcycles, including the KLR.