cmc 2011

Jeff Khoury · Post by **Jeff Khoury** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:11 pm

#ygrps-yiv-286471940 p {margin:0;}I know this sounds kinda weird, but check the bolts on your intake. My brother's KLR developed a weird "ching" when running at low speed, and it took us a long time to figure out the intake bolts had vibrated loose. -Jeff Khoury [b]From: [/b]"Gary Thacker" [b]To: [/b]"Dual Sport list dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com" dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent: [/b]Thursday, October 21, 2010 3:28:19 PM [b]Subject: [/b]RE: [DSN_KLR650] Runnig better with premium gas I just put my first tank of premium in yesterday. I have noticed a noise if I go by a wall or anything that will reflect the sound back to the rider while adding power. It does sound like denotation. Its kinda a ching sound, whatever that is. It may not be but thats why I'm tryin premium this time. I checked the frame bolts and everything seems tight. Of course there is always a chance I'm hearing things but I don't think so. Gary Souderton, Pa. To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com From: mike21b@... Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 18:04:34 -0400 Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Runnig better with premium gas If you are running in 5th gear, under 3,000 RPM, and accelerating, you are lugging the engine. That said, I am guilty of this from time to time - especially during low speed cruising, as Craig described below The use of higher octane fuel can smooth out the power pulses at lower RPMs but you'd be better off if you downshifted to 4th gear under these conditions, regardless of the fuel you are using. If you really want to observe the effect of fuel on the KLR, find some old gasoline - you know, like that stuff that's still in the Chevy truck you parked out back 5 years ago, thinking to yourself "I'll get to this in a couple weeks". Don't ask me how I know this....... Mike Craig Kahler wrote:

[quote] I have a 16T front sprocket on my 07 and have always had to run in 4th gear below 50mph. In 5th gear, If I let the RPMs get below 3K, the engine would start lugging. Since switching from regular to premium, 11/2 tanks ago, the KLR will now cruise at 2.5K rpm . I can now ride those 40-45mph roads in 5th gear. It is my understanding that premium gas burns slower than regular. Maybe this explains why I"m getting smoother runnimg at low rpm? Craig

[/quote]

Jeff Khoury · Post by **Jeff Khoury** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:24 pm

#ygrps-yiv-1184640520 p {margin:0;}I agree Mike, High Octane gas is suitable for high-compression engines that require it. The KLR is a comparatively low-compression engine and has been rumored to be capable of running on warm buttermilk. It benefits exactly zero from premium fuel in the vast majority of conditions. If you're running the stock jetting and you're out in a very hot desert, you MIGHT get a little "ping" from detonation. There are two fixes: go to premium or shim your needle a bit. I shimmed the needle. My KLR has over 20,000 miles of 87 octane pump gas and it starts and idles fine. The guy at Del Amo motorsports complimented my bike on how well it starts and how smoothly it idles. It's never had a single additive in the tank. Now having said that, I did all the carb tuning myself and I ride it every single day. it never sits long enough for anything to build up in the fuel system. The best way to keep your bike running well is to RIDE IT. Actual cash value: $0.02 -Jeff Khoury [b]From: [/b]"Mike Frey" [b]To: [/b]"DSN KLR650" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent: [/b]Thursday, October 21, 2010 7:28:49 PM [b]Subject: [/b]RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Runnig better with premium gas I can t sit back and read this without further comment and a war of words may ensue but: Premium Fuel is merely higher octane fuel. It does NOT clean your engine better. It does NOT prolong the life of your engine. It does NOT save money. Last and definitely not least, your KLR will NEVER produce more power via higher octane fuel. It will VERY likely produce LESS power.

I doubt if I will convert anyone (and that s fine) but there are only 2 reasons to use Premium (higher octane) gas:

1) If your manual says you should use it for example, a finely tuned, high compression sports car with knock sensors and / or engine management system that adjusts the ignition timing for maximum performance. (and even then, many have proven, after 100,000 miles or more, that many of the PREMIUM FUEL ONLY vehicles actually run faster and longer when regular is used)

2) If your engine suffers from detonation, pinging, or knocking due to the uncontrolled combustion (which would be abnormal in any engine, but an indicator that you need higher octane fuel).

The KLR does not fit either of the above categories. It never fits the first example, but it could fit the second. If you don t have one of the above conditions, you are wasting your money on fuel. You probably are doing no harm, but you are spending money unnecessarily.

Avgas -- All people who attain their pilot s license must know this it is required knowledge to pass your tests: Avgas (100LL) is made for airplanes. It does NOT give your KLR higher performance, nor does it make it run better, nor does it clean it. If anything, using 100LL can actually DAMAGE the engine of a KLR. 100LL is made for airplanes, not motorcycles. If you are running your KLR at 12,000 feet altitude at a steady 75-90% throttle for long periods of time, 100LL might be appropriate but who rides like that up there? (And your bike better be jetted very lean for these conditions). 100LL is also NOT 100 Octane when it is measured by the same methods pump gas is it s more like 96 Octane. Higher octane, yes. Better for your KLR, no.

Back to pump fuel. Yes, some manufacturers advertise that their Premium Fuels contain additives that clean your engine. They do but so does their Regular ! Some ads go so far as to claim that Premium contains MORE of those additives. It might but the difference between what s in Regular vs. what is in Premium is so small that it makes virtually no difference. With each gallon of Premium you buy, it simply increases the profit for the oil companies. That s why they advertise it: you buy it, they make more money.

(And, no, I am not one of those Big Oil conspiracy subscribers)

Want to give a treat your engine via the fuel tank? Add Seafoam per the instructions on the can. It s cheaper than using Premium gas (when used per instructions), and it will do a much better job of cleaning and preserving the fuel.

I have the following vehicles:

2004 KLR-650

2006 KLR-650

2002 ZRX-1200

2000 250 Super Sherpa

1997 KLX-300

1992 KDX-200

1978 Montesa 348 Cota Trials

2001 Audi V8 Quattro

2000 Chrysler Concorde

2004 Nissan Titan

1997 Ford Taurus V8 SHO

Only one of the above needs Premium: the Audi. It performs better with it.

One other recommends premium: The SHO. However, years of experience with the Yamaha built DOHC 3.2 liter V-8 has shown that it is not needed. No one uses it, and drag strip numbers indicate lower trap times for those who use high octane, then switch to regular with the SAME CAR. It goes FASTER!

It is almost universally known among the ZRX riders that this bike runs fine (actually better) when 87 octane is used.

The KLR engine is a low compression, low power, low tech engine and probably knows no difference between Premium and Regular. But it s a superb bike and that s why we have them and love them.

OK, my flame suit is on

Mike

[b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Shane [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, October 21, 2010 9:11 PM [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: Runnig better with premium gas

I am amazed to learn that anyone in the group is not running the best fuel they can get in the usa. I am currently in Peru, mostly playing! Yesterday in the jungle I was checking out some outboards- Mercroid 4 cycles. They are having trouble with the oil ring turning to the bottom of the cyl.- not a problem with the KLR. Also they are burning headgaskets. Turns out the wrench is removing the thermostats! The biggest problem is the fuel. They are running cheapest fuel they can get- all they can get in the jungle! 80 octane! If they had been doing this in the usa the engines would have already been trash, of course they are Merc's already! I told him to find NAPTHA and mix in the fuel, or moth balls if he has tweezers. Down here there is NO Ethanol trash, and there is still lead! This is the only reason these engines are still alive at all. Tomorrow I will be trying to trash a KTM 530 in the desert. For that we have 98 octane, leaded, NO Ethanol!!! Yahoo! Of course it is $9.00+/ gal. For those of you near enough to an airport in the us, get the avgas! it's 104 oct & low lead. Perfect stuff for the klr. I run it in my Scorpa, KLR KTM...all the toyz in the us garage. Weed wacker too. --- In DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com, Gary Thacker wrote:

> > > > I just put my first tank of premium in yesterday. I have noticed a noise

if I go by a wall or anything that will reflect the sound back to the rider while adding power. It does sound like denotation. Its kinda a ching sound, whatever that is. It may not be but thats why I'm tryin premium this time. I checked the frame bolts and everything seems tight. Of course there is always a chance I'm hearing things but I don't think so.

> > Gary > Souderton, Pa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com > From: mike21b@... > Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 18:04:34 -0400 > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Runnig better with premium gas > > > > > > > If you are running in 5th gear, under 3,000 RPM, and accelerating, you are

lugging the engine. That said, I am guilty of this from time to time - especially during low speed cruising, as Craig described below

> > The use of higher octane fuel can smooth out the power pulses at lower

RPMs but you'd be better off if you downshifted to 4th gear under these conditions, regardless of the fuel you are using.

> > If you really want to observe the effect of fuel on the KLR, find some old

gasoline - you know, like that stuff that's still in the Chevy truck you parked out back 5 years ago, thinking to yourself "I'll get to this in a couple weeks". Don't ask me how I know this.......

> > Mike > > > Craig Kahler wrote: > > > > > > > > I have a 16T front sprocket on my 07 and have always had to run in 4th

gear below 50mph. In 5th gear, If I let the RPMs get below 3K, the engine would start lugging. Since switching from regular to premium, 11/2 tanks ago, the KLR will now cruise at 2.5K rpm . I can now ride those 40-45mph roads in 5th gear.

> It is my understanding that premium gas burns slower than regular. Maybe

this explains why I"m getting smoother runnimg at low rpm?

> Craig >

Craig Kahler · Post by **Craig Kahler** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:25 pm

I agree with Mike, our low compression KLRs should not need premium fuel. So, what could be wrong with my bike? With regular gas, if I give it just a little throttle in 5th gear at 2750rpm, it will kick and buck with every power stroke. What I refered to as lugging. With premium, I can still feel each power stroke, but its much smoother. I don't think carbon deposits are the problem, since the bike behaved this way since new. Could ignition timing or valve timing issues cause this? Is ignition timing adjustable? Craig

--- On [b]Thu, 10/21/10, Mike Frey [i][/i][/b] wrote:

From: Mike Frey Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Runnig better with premium gas To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 10:28 PM I can t sit back and read this without further comment and a war of words may ensue but: Premium Fuel is merely higher octane fuel. It does NOT clean your engine better. It does NOT prolong the life of your engine. It does NOT save money. Last and definitely not least, your KLR will NEVER produce more power via higher octane fuel. It will VERY likely produce LESS power. I doubt if I will convert anyone (and that s fine) but there are only 2 reasons to use Premium (higher octane) gas: 1) If your manual says you should use it for example, a finely tuned, high compression sports car with knock sensors and / or engine management system that adjusts the ignition timing for maximum performance. (and even then, many have proven, after 100,000 miles or more, that many of the PREMIUM FUEL ONLY vehicles actually run faster and longer when regular is used) 2) If your engine suffers from detonation, pinging, or knocking due to the uncontrolled combustion (which would be abnormal in any engine, but an indicator that you need higher octane fuel). The KLR does not fit either of the above categories. It never fits the first example, but it could fit the second. If you don t have one of the above conditions, you are wasting your money on fuel. You probably are doing no harm, but you are spending money unnecessarily. Avgas -- All people who attain their pilot s license must know this it is required knowledge to pass your tests: Avgas (100LL) is made for airplanes. It does NOT give your KLR higher performance, nor does it make it run better, nor does it clean it. If anything, using 100LL can actually DAMAGE the engine of a KLR. 100LL is made for airplanes, not motorcycles. If you are running your KLR at 12,000 feet altitude at a steady 75-90% throttle for long periods of time, 100LL might be appropriate but who rides like that up there? (And your bike better be jetted very lean for these conditions). 100LL is also NOT 100 Octane when it is measured by the same methods pump gas is it s more like 96 Octane. Higher octane, yes. Better for your KLR, no. Back to pump fuel. Yes, some manufacturers advertise that their Premium Fuels contain additives that clean your engine. They do but so does their Regular ! Some ads go so far as to claim that Premium contains MORE of those additives. It might but the difference between what s in Regular vs. what is in Premium is so small that it makes virtually no difference. With each gallon of Premium you buy, it simply increases the profit for the oil companies. That s why they advertise it: you buy it, they make more money. (And, no, I am not one of those Big Oil conspiracy subscribers) Want to give a treat your engine via the fuel tank? Add Seafoam per the instructions on the can. It s cheaper than using Premium gas (when used per instructions), and it will do a much better job of cleaning and preserving the fuel. I have the following vehicles: 2004 KLR-650 2006 KLR-650 2002 ZRX-1200 2000 250 Super Sherpa 1997 KLX-300 1992 KDX-200 1978 Montesa 348 Cota Trials 2001 Audi V8 Quattro 2000 Chrysler Concorde 2004 Nissan Titan 1997 Ford Taurus V8 SHO Only one of the above needs Premium: the Audi. It performs better with it. One other recommends premium: The SHO. However, years of experience with the Yamaha built DOHC 3.2 liter V-8 has shown that it is not needed. No one uses it, and drag strip numbers indicate lower trap times for those who use high octane, then switch to regular with the SAME CAR. It goes FASTER! It is almost universally known among the ZRX riders that this bike runs fine (actually better) when 87 octane is used. The KLR engine is a low compression, low power, low tech engine and probably knows no difference between Premium and Regular. But it s a superb bike and that s why we have them and love them. OK, my flame suit is on Mike [b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Shane [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, October 21, 2010 9:11 PM [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: Runnig better with premium gas I am amazed to learn that anyone in the group is not running the best fuel they can get in the usa. I am currently in Peru, mostly playing! Yesterday in the jungle I was checking out some outboards- Mercroid 4 cycles. They are having trouble with the oil ring turning to the bottom of the cyl.- not a problem with the KLR. Also they are burning headgaskets. Turns out the wrench is removing the thermostats! The biggest problem is the fuel. They are running cheapest fuel they can get- all they can get in the jungle! 80 octane! If they had been doing this in the usa the engines would have already been trash, of course they are Merc's already! I told him to find NAPTHA and mix in the fuel, or moth balls if he has tweezers. Down here there is NO Ethanol trash, and there is still lead! This is the only reason these engines are still alive at all. Tomorrow I will be trying to trash a KTM 530 in the desert. For that we have 98 octane, leaded, NO Ethanol!!! Yahoo! Of course it is $9.00+/ gal. For those of you near enough to an airport in the us, get the avgas! it's 104 oct & low lead. Perfect stuff for the klr. I run it in my Scorpa, KLR KTM...all the toyz in the us garage. Weed wacker too. --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Gary Thacker wrote: > > > > I just put my first tank of premium in yesterday. I have noticed a noise if I go by a wall or anything that will reflect the sound back to the rider while adding power. It does sound like denotation. Its kinda a ching sound, whatever that is. It may not be but thats why I'm tryin premium this time. I checked the frame bolts and everything seems tight. Of course there is always a chance I'm hearing things but I don't think so. > > Gary > Souderton, Pa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > From: mike21b@... > Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 18:04:34 -0400 > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Runnig better with premium gas > > > > > > > If you are running in 5th gear, under 3,000 RPM, and accelerating, you are lugging the engine. That said, I am guilty of this from time to time - especially during low speed cruising, as Craig described below > > The use of higher octane fuel can smooth out the power pulses at lower RPMs but you'd be better off if you downshifted to 4th gear under these conditions, regardless of the fuel you are using. > > If you really want to observe the effect of fuel on the KLR, find some old gasoline - you know, like that stuff that's still in the Chevy truck you parked out back 5 years ago, thinking to yourself "I'll get to this in a couple weeks". Don't ask me how I know this....... > > Mike > > > Craig Kahler wrote: > > > > > > > > I have a 16T front sprocket on my 07 and have always had to run in 4th gear below 50mph. In 5th gear, If I let the RPMs get below 3K, the engine would start lugging. Since switching from regular to premium, 11/2 tanks ago, the KLR will now cruise at 2.5K rpm . I can now ride those 40-45mph roads in 5th gear. > It is my understanding that premium gas burns slower than regular. Maybe this explains why I"m getting smoother runnimg at low rpm? > Craig >

Red Rock · Post by **Red Rock** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:30 pm

Please read and learn Shell V Power has the highest detergent level of any premium gasoline available stateside. It is 5 times higher than federal limits and 2.5 times higher than top tier requirements. I can't vouch for the European market, but the additive packages are pretty much global now. This additive package can not only keep your engine clean, but actually clean internal parts that have deposits built up, robbing your engine of power. [b]From:[/b] Mike Frey [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Thu, October 21, 2010 10:28:49 PM [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Runnig better with premium gas I can t sit back and read this without further comment and a war of words may ensue but: Premium Fuel is merely higher octane fuel. It does NOT clean your engine better. It does NOT prolong the life of your engine. It does NOT save money. Last and definitely not least, your KLR will NEVER produce more power via higher octane fuel. It will VERY likely produce LESS power.