stock is as stock does

[tedfshred]

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., RM wrote:

> I'd love to know what's special about your bike. I have never

lifted the

> rear wheel nor have I locked the front wheel with ANY pad

combination. I once thought my brakes were special after achieving front wheel skid during a relatively high speed panic stop. It turned out the unique stock fork dive characteristics allowed the front wheel to wedge into the 4" PVC tool pipe I had on at the time. Now have a smaller tool kit and average brakes.

[Tony Cornett]

When I first got my 2002 I was convinced the brakes were terrible. I almost rear-ender a truck. But it turned out to be the tires. Once my tires became a bit warn the brakes were better. I have about 1800 miles on the bike now. The stock tires do not look to last past 3000 miles for the rear. This is all asphalt riding. I bet with street tires there will be another improvement. My next set will be Avon Roadrunners. Thanks TC

----- Original Message ----- From: "tedfshred" To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 8:21 PM Subject: [DSN_klr650] Re: Brakes > --- In DSN_klr650@y..., RM wrote: > > > I'd love to know what's special about your bike. I have never > lifted the > > rear wheel nor have I locked the front wheel with ANY pad > combination. > > > I once thought my brakes were special after achieving front wheel > skid during a relatively high speed panic stop. It turned out the > unique stock fork dive characteristics allowed the front wheel to > wedge into the 4" PVC tool pipe I had on at the time. > > Now have a smaller tool kit and average brakes. > > > Checkout Dual Sport News at > http://www.dualsportnews.com > Be part of the Adventure! > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > Post message: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

[marcclarke@unforgettable.com]

Sonny, Are you completely certain that you are talking about a completely stock front brake on a Kawasaki KLR650? My KLR650's stock front brake had absolutely no resemblence to the one-finger or two-finger braking behavior you are describing, even with fresh brake fluid. -- Marc, KLR650 A12 ----Original Message-----

>From: Sonny Bulla >To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [DSN_klr650] Re: Brakes >Date: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 09:58 > >>RM writes: >>Stupid KLR trick: Take your Galfer pad-equipped KLR up to 70mph, grab the >>front brake as hard as you possibly can, hold it there until the bike >>stops, immediately look down at the front caliper and note the SMOKE >>rising from the pads. Now do it again for the "that's neat" factor and >>warp your front rotor > >Sounds like you need to go back to stock. If I took my stock brake equipped >KLR to that speed and grabbed the front brake with said force...they would >be scraping my face off the highway after the bike flipped over and ground >it in! > >I must have an unusual stock brake system on mine. So far, I haven't found >any reason to change it. As I stated once before, one finger on the lever >slows me adequately from any speed for a turn and two fingers worth of >force can bring me to a rear-wheel-lifting panic stop (don't ask how I know >;-)). > >...or, maybe I just don't know good brakes when I see 'em. > >Sonny >'02 KLR650 >

[RM]

On Wed, 8 May 2002 marcclarke@... wrote:

>Are you completely certain that you are talking about a completely stock >front brake on a Kawasaki KLR650? My KLR650's stock front brake had >absolutely no resemblence to the one-finger or two-finger braking >behavior you are describing, even with fresh brake fluid.

Maybe our rotors need Grape Kool-Aid and melted lollipop smeared all over them.

[Sonny Bulla]

Marc asks:

>> Are you completely certain that you are talking about a completely >>stock front brake on a Kawasaki KLR650? My KLR650's stock front brake >>had absolutely no resemblence to the one-finger or two-finger braking >>behavior you are describing, even with fresh brake fluid. >>-- Marc, KLR650 A12

Yes Marc, it is a completely stock system as I bought this bike new only a couple of months ago and it only has about 2100 miles on it now. The more I think about it, the "rear wheel lifting" episode might have been caused by the excessive dive my front forks exhibit. If I were running the progressive springs that might not have occured. (soon as I find an extra $80, I'll have 'em) But, still, living in this little east TN tourist town, I am constantly having to make panic stops to avoid lost tourists who decide to stop in the middle of the road and figure out where they are or yard sale hunters who almost passed a poorly visible yard sale sign and this bike seems to haul it's weight down faster than any other machine I've had. Granted, it doesn't have near the weight of my most recent bikes (Harleys), and that might be one of the reasons I'm so impressed by the stock system. Maybe with a few more miles, things might change but, for now, it's OK. Sonny '02 KLR650

[dooden]

Funny you say that... I use the rear brake prob. more than the front, and find it stops quite well. Im not a very aggressive rider thou, so maybe that helps me, im sure it will help the life expectancy of the pads. Even find myself slightly touching the rear brake while cornering, this allows me to touque the motor a little more and not require another gear down when cornering. All in the rider... Duden

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., RM wrote: > > On Wed, 8 May 2002, guytal1 wrote: > > >wondering if I would actually be able to stop in time. I kept squeezing > >harder and harder and the bike just kept on going. > > Use that rear brake. The KLR keeps enough weight on the rear wheel to > make a difference. At least mine does...

[ehfyou2]

KLRers, the rear brakes on my A16 "squeal like a pig" on hot days. Looking for along life quite pad. Thanks, T-master.

[Allan Patton]

----- Original Message ----- From: "ehfyou2" > KLRers, the rear brakes on my A16 "squeal like a pig" on hot days. > Looking for along life quite pad. > Bet if you touch that rear brake rotor after ridding for a while it will burn you. Most likely cause is that the inside brake pad does not float on the pins properly. Proof is that the inside pad will wear away faster than the caliper side. So, what I do is to frequently loosen up the inside pad and shake some of the dirt out of it. When the bike is cool, I put my hands on the caliper, fingers over the rotor, and squeeze to force the brake fluid back into the reservoir. It's not recommended that you blow out the dirt with air, but you could use water to wash it out. I like to put a drop or two of WD-40 on the pins that carry the inside pad. Be sure to pump the brake when finished. Even after doing this, the rear rotor runs hot, but I' m getting longer life from the pads, so it's worth the extra effort. It's on the third set of rear brake pads. Allan A14 68,000 miles

[Chris Krok]

> Subject: The Nigerians are coming! The Nigerians are coming! NKLR > > Here we go again.... > Devon

I can't believe that scam is still around, and worse yet, I can't believe people actually continue to fall for it.

> From: "James" > Subject: Better Brake Calipers for the KLR > > Now, what if-- Galfer made a higher performance brake caliper for > the KLR? How many folks would be interested in buying say a four > piston performance caliper from Galfer if it was available on > the market for a reasonable price?

More squeeze would certainly help, but I think you'd get more out of the bigger rotor. Bigger lever arm, more surface to absorb/dump heat, etc. If the price were comparable, I'd stick with the bigger rotor. Someone went through a salvage yard and found a disc with the same hub diameter as the KLR, off of a Ninja or some such. There was a different number of bolt holes, but we were going to redrill it and make a caliper adapter. The guy got rid of the bike and the project never came to fruition, unfortunately. I've actually gotten much better braking response from a set of Parts Unlimited Tuff Stop pads than I did with EBC sintereds... Don't know how long they'll last, but I think they were only $24/set. They also don't destroy the rotors like the sintered pads did. Krokko -- Dr. J. Christopher Krok John Lucas Adaptive Wind Tunnel Caltech MS 205-45, Pasadena, CA 91125

[Eric L. Green]

Well, my front brake gave a little metal-to-metal squeal yesterday. I looked down when I got home, and sure enough, it's time for new brake pads. And, for that matter, possibly a new brake rotor, because this guy is looking a bit tired and worn -- the previous owner put sintered metallic pads on the thing. We'll see what happens when I clean it up. The good news is that the cycle accessories place down the street is a Galfer dealer. The even better news is that his Galfer distributor is about 1 mile away from his shop, so that even though he'll have to order pads, they shouldn't take long to arrive. I looked at the "big rotor" kit. I'm not convinced. Braking efficiency is detirmined by three things: 1) Temperature of the rotor and brake pads. This is reduced by the big rotor, but modern brake pads aren't as sensitive to temperature. However, the big rotor does allow more heat dispersal. 2) Area of brake pad in contact with the rotor. This is identical between the two. 3) Amount of force exerted against the rotor by the brake pads. This, along with the coefficient of friction, detirmines how much directional energy will be transformed into heat energy. The calipers continue to exert the same amount of force against the rotor, and steel continues to have the same coefficient of friction that it's always had. Now, there seem to be people absolutely convinced that the big rotors make their brakes stop better. They point to the amount of suspension dive. However, suspension dive is not only a matter of weight transfer, it is also a matter of moment arm. The relocated brake pads, being further out on the fork, will transfer additional torque to the fork. This is not causing additional braking by any means -- amount of braking is detirmined by how much forward energy is converted into heat energy. This has absolutely nothing to do with fork dive. The other thing they point to is how much easier it is to do a "stoppie". But again, this is a matter of moment arm, not of braking efficiency. Another confounding issue is the fact that most people also upgrade to the Galfer stainless steel lines at the same time. The Galfer lines will cause greater braking power with less lever motion, because they have a slightly smaller inside diameter, meaning less buffering by the fluid column in the brake line. More of the force instead goes against the calipers. So people may be confusing the better feel from the Galfer lines with the effects of the rotor. People also often update to the Galfer green brake pads at the same time, which will increase the coefficient of friction between brake pad and rotor, and thus stopping power. It appears to me that the temperature issue is the only one where the larger rotor will produce better results. If I were intending to go down a 4% slope using my brakes rather than my engine to slow me down, I might think it's worth it. But at the moment, looking at the simple physics involved, it seems to me that it'd make more sense to just put another OEM-style rotor by EBC or etc. on there (for half the price or less of the big rotor kit) and go with the Galfer Green pads and stainless steel brake line. From what I can tell, the only way that the bigger rotor would result in more braking power would be if there were bigger pads and more powerful calipers to go with it. Without that, it seems like a vanity project to me, not to mention that it puts forces onto the fork that the fork wasn't designed for. Am I overlooking something? Is physics lying to me? Did I overlook a coefficient of friction somewhere that is improved by the bigger rotor? Do the big rotor kits include something that isn't shown on the web sites (which show a rotor, and a bracket for moving the calipers upwards)? Scientific minds want to know! -E