oil filters

[dooden]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "westnash1" wrote:

> Who has the best doohickey and spring setup and about what is their > price?

Unless the prices have changed in the last year alot, either maker that makes the aftermarket doohickey had fairly even prices. Jakes is less, Eagle is more but uses stainless steel which has a higher cost, difference of opinion of two machinists. (lever lives in oil) Either will last longer than the KLR engine. Looks like Fred has delevoped a kit which includes the tools and gaskets needed to swap the doohickey out. I had the tools already and only needed the parts, since the gaskets are pretty good about not tearing and believe at the time Jake was the only one actually making these in production mode for us consumers. Dooden A15 Green Ape

[rsanders30117]

Stainless steel isn't necessary for the doohickey. In fact in my opinion, carbon steel is typical harder & machines so much better than stainless, I suggest good old carbon steel is more appropriate for the doohickey. In this application being stainless is just a sales gimmick.

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Dooden" wrote: > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "westnash1" wrote: > > Who has the best doohickey and spring setup and about what is their > > price? > > Unless the prices have changed in the last year alot, either maker > that makes the aftermarket doohickey had fairly even prices. > > Jakes is less, Eagle is more but uses stainless steel which has a > higher cost, difference of opinion of two machinists. (lever lives in oil) > > Either will last longer than the KLR engine. > > Looks like Fred has delevoped a kit which includes the tools and > gaskets needed to swap the doohickey out. > > I had the tools already and only needed the parts, since the gaskets > are pretty good about not tearing and believe at the time Jake was the > only one actually making these in production mode for us consumers. > > Dooden > A15 Green Ape

[wannabsmooth1]

I wonder if this is a troll? (I will again attempt to educate those without material reference handbooks on their desk.) Big Grin! No sales gimmicks involved here, I choose the best material for the job. There are many different types of stainless steel. 17-4 is used extensively in aerospace, where high strength is a requirement. The strongest steel I'm familiar with is called a stainless steel, the maraging series. This maraging stainless steel can be heat treated up to 350,000 lbs/sq in tensile strength. The 17-4 stainless I use comes back from h/t about 220,000 lb/sq in tensile strength, a hardness of approximately 44 rockwell C. (interesting side note - there are aerospace and manufacturing engineers that have shown up at some of the tech days, and agreed with my choice of material) I chose the 17-4 because it has excellent toughness, not brittle, even used for springs at times. There are many types of carbon steel available, too. The 4130 I've seen referenced here on the list has a max AS QUENCHED hardness of approx 48 rockwell C, but this is before tempering! I have a copy of the page for 4130, from the heat treaters handbook, that CLEARLY states this. 4130 will NOT be this hard after tempering, which results in a much lower hardness, usually down into the lower 30's on the c scale. Tempering is done to keep the part from being brittle. I know the carbon steel levers are "hardened all the way through." Fortunately, the cross section of the lever allows full penetration of this hardening process. This process is usually used to add a hardened layer to parts - called case hardening. (The mil-spec referenced for the carbon steel parts was superseded in 1999 - which is no biggie - there are mil-specs for many many things - paint, glue, probably socks and zippers). Carbon steel machines so much better than stainless? are you sure? Have you compared a meaningful sample of both of the available levers? Which carbon and stainless are you referring to? Do you machine parts for a living like I do? I have an extensive level of experience in manufacturing, as a machinist, heat treat inspector, quality control inspector, then quality manager in aerospace. I would disagree with your generalization. Find some material handbooks, talk to several engineers, manufacturing and design - especially aerospace. Talk to some heat treaters. Don't need any coffee this mornng! All the best, and happy Friday! Mike Eagle Mfg & Eng San Diego, Ca The same company, making stuff for KLR's since 1990 --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "rsanders30117" wrote:

> Stainless steel isn't necessary for the doohickey. In fact in my > opinion, carbon steel is typical harder & machines so much better > than stainless, I suggest good old carbon steel is more

appropriate

> for the doohickey. In this application being stainless is just a > sales gimmick. > > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Dooden" wrote: > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "westnash1" > wrote: > > > Who has the best doohickey and spring setup and about what is > their > > > price? > > > > Unless the prices have changed in the last year alot, either

maker

> > that makes the aftermarket doohickey had fairly even prices. > > > > Jakes is less, Eagle is more but uses stainless steel which has a > > higher cost, difference of opinion of two machinists. (lever

lives

> in oil) > > > > Either will last longer than the KLR engine. > > > > Looks like Fred has delevoped a kit which includes the tools and > > gaskets needed to swap the doohickey out. > > > > I had the tools already and only needed the parts, since the

gaskets

> > are pretty good about not tearing and believe at the time Jake

was

> the > > only one actually making these in production mode for us

consumers.

> > > > Dooden > > A15 Green Ape

[wannabsmooth1]

I wonder if this is a troll? (I will again attempt to educate those without material reference handbooks on their desk.) Big Grin! No sales gimmicks involved here, I choose the best material for the job. There are many different types of stainless steel. 17-4 is used extensively in aerospace, where high strength is a requirement. The strongest steel I'm familiar with is called a stainless steel, the maraging series. This maraging stainless steel can be heat treated up to 350,000 lbs/sq in tensile strength. The 17-4 stainless I use comes back from h/t about 220,000 lb/sq in tensile strength, a hardness of approximately 44 rockwell C. (interesting side note - there are aerospace and manufacturing engineers that have shown up at some of the tech days, and agreed with my choice of material) I chose the 17-4 because it has excellent toughness, not brittle, even used for springs at times. There are many types of carbon steel available, too. The 4130 I've seen referenced here on the list has a max AS QUENCHED hardness of approx 48 rockwell C, but this is before tempering! I have a copy of the page for 4130, from the heat treaters handbook, that CLEARLY states this. 4130 will NOT be this hard after tempering, which results in a much lower hardness, usually down into the lower 30's on the c scale. Tempering is done to keep the part from being brittle. I know the carbon steel levers are "hardened all the way through." Fortunately, the cross section of the lever allows full penetration of this hardening process. This process is usually used to add a hardened layer to parts - called case hardening. (The mil-spec referenced for the carbon steel parts was superseded in 1999 - which is no biggie - there are mil-specs for many many things - paint, glue, probably socks and zippers). Carbon steel machines so much better than stainless? are you sure? Have you compared a meaningful sample of both of the available levers? Which carbon and stainless are you referring to? Do you machine parts for a living like I do? I have an extensive level of experience in manufacturing, as a machinist, heat treat inspector, quality control inspector, then quality manager in aerospace. I would disagree with your generalization. Find some material handbooks, talk to several engineers, manufacturing and design - especially aerospace. Talk to some heat treaters. Don't need any coffee this mornng! All the best, and happy Friday! Mike Eagle Mfg & Eng San Diego, Ca The same company, making stuff for KLR's since 1990 --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "rsanders30117" wrote:

> Stainless steel isn't necessary for the doohickey. In fact in my > opinion, carbon steel is typical harder & machines so much better > than stainless, I suggest good old carbon steel is more

appropriate

> for the doohickey. In this application being stainless is just a > sales gimmick. > > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Dooden" wrote: > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "westnash1" > wrote: > > > Who has the best doohickey and spring setup and about what is > their > > > price? > > > > Unless the prices have changed in the last year alot, either

maker

> > that makes the aftermarket doohickey had fairly even prices. > > > > Jakes is less, Eagle is more but uses stainless steel which has a > > higher cost, difference of opinion of two machinists. (lever

lives

> in oil) > > > > Either will last longer than the KLR engine. > > > > Looks like Fred has delevoped a kit which includes the tools and > > gaskets needed to swap the doohickey out. > > > > I had the tools already and only needed the parts, since the

gaskets

> > are pretty good about not tearing and believe at the time Jake

was

> the > > only one actually making these in production mode for us

consumers.

> > > > Dooden > > A15 Green Ape

[psulsu8598]

The Doohickey is the counterbalance adjestment. Basically it simply holds the shaft that the counterbalance spring is attached to. The spring is used to keep the crankshaft chain taught. The doohickey has channel that allows for adjustment of the tension on the spring. The stock doohickey is several pieces welded together. The welds fail often enough that people have upgraded to a solid unit that is machined from a single piece of metal. The problem with the doohickey is that if it fails there is a chance that there will be a catostrophic engine failure. If you are going to tear the engine down replace it. You can get one at arrowhead motorsports and maybe a couple of other places.

[jasonsail]

I just bought a klr650 with 6,300 miles and I guess I need to do this doohickey thing. Can you tell me what your ordered and where? Is it pretty easy and does the kit come with tools and good instructions? thanks a bunch, Jason

[Rick McCauley]

In the next few weeks, I will have my 500 mi service done on my A17. I would like to change the doohickey for sanity sake. I am very mechanical, and have worked on bikes, cars, and tractors, but by the sounds of it, the doohickey should be done by someone familiar with the inside of the KLR engine, and doohickey experience. Of which I am neither. Is their anyone in the central Illinois area that is such a person, and how much would you charge to do it. While I stare over your back as you work on my first new motorcycle ever. (and it was a leftover) Rick A17 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Rodney Copeland]

Ain't no thang Rick! The support available is more than adequate to compensate for lack of experience. If you can't find anyone to help ya, these sites will. http://www.klr650.marknet.us/ http://multisurfacemotorcycling.com/klr650_page.htm I'm sure you'll do just fine as I and many others have. Enjoy the journey! Rod --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCauley wrote:

> In the next few weeks, I will have my 500 mi service done on my

A17. I would like to change the doohickey for sanity sake. I am very mechanical, and have worked on bikes, cars, and tractors, but by the sounds of it, the doohickey should be done by someone familiar with the inside of the KLR engine, and doohickey experience. Of which I am neither. Is their anyone in the central Illinois area that is such a person, and how much would you charge to do it. While I stare over your back as you work on my first new motorcycle ever. (and it was a leftover)

> > Rick A17 > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[April Neave & Norm Keller]

Rick posted:

>I am very mechanical, and have worked on bikes, cars, >and tractors, but by

the sounds of it, the doohickey >should be done by someone familiar with the inside of >the KLR engine, and doohickey experience. Of which I >am neither. Poppy-cock my son! This is such a simple operation that anyone could do it with only the info shown on Mark's site. Don't concern yourself it is an easy flat rate 1.0 hour for cleaning the oil pick up strainer, and about the same for the doohickey. I was under that time without rushing although I did use an air ratchet for the cover bolts and an impact gun for both the flywheel bolt and puller screw. You don't need the 1-1/4" wrench to loosen the flywheel bolt if you use a 1/2" impact but will need the wrench or a big strap wrench to hold it for torquing. A strap could be mocked up if needed. I didn't notice any of the procedures mentioning the need to drain engine oil but it is less messy. (VBG) There are no pitfalls for the experienced at all. I did mine as my first and if someone wants to loose $500, I'll bet them I can do the procedure blindfolded the second time- not to brag, it's that easy. The consensus on broken tension springs seems to be that the broken end lands in the oil pick-up screen so don't sweat that either. I made a magnetic drain plug by pressing a magnet from a broken pocket pick-up magnet into a hole drilled into the plug. The magnet didn't get the bit of spring which is a surprise. Keep in mind that lots of listers who aren't mechanically experienced did the job with no problem as the first real mechanical job they have tackled. Saving the gaskets is a bit of a pain and slows the job a lot but the access is so easy around the edges that it is no problem to run a gasket knife around and a right angle "O" Ring pick gets a couple of corners. The only area for concern at all is torquing the water pump impellor nut as some have mentioned having snapped it off. Maybe the didn't realize the difference between inch pounds and foot pounds? Easy to mix up if you're not used to the measures. With experience though, 6 foot pounds of so isn't much and that should clue one not to get too heavy handed. Just experience and focus. Take the opportunity to dump in new coolant and you're good to go. HIH Norm P.S. You may wish to reinstall the oil filler plug before starting the engine as it makes it easier to start and saves time cleaning the tank and windshield. (VBG)

[Doug Herr]

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005, April Neave & Norm Keller wrote:

> Rick posted: >> I am very mechanical, and have worked on bikes, cars, and >> tractors, but by the sounds of it, the doohickey should be >> done by someone familiar with the inside of the KLR engine, >> and doohickey experience. Of which I am neither. > Poppy-cock my son! This is such a simple operation that anyone could do it > with only the info shown on Mark's site.

I would say that anybody that is "very mechanical" and has "worked on bikes, cars, and tractors" should be able to do this without trouble as long as they carefully read *everything* that Mark has written at: http://www.klr650.marknet.us/doohickey.html I am sorry if this sounds like I am picking on Norm here, but I do want to stress some issues. Don't plan on this taking just one hour. Give yourself plenty of time and if possible do it in a garage or similar so that you can close it off and keep children and animals out if you don't finish on the first day. There seems to be some confusion about draining the oil for this job (just talking about the doohickey job here; remember the subject line). Mark does make is pretty clear: "I chose to drain the oil, and do this procedure with the bike upright on my Easy-Lift in case any small parts fell off or out, they would just fall down, and not into the engine. As it turns out, I didn't really see anywhere the washers, locating "dowels" or woodruff key could fall into that wouldn't be easily accessed unless you're not going to remove the inner case cover for spring replacement. Then it might be a minor hassle to drop something. So, lean the bike over onto a bucket or a couple tires and don't drain the oil, or do as I have and drain the oil if the bike is due for a change anyway." Notice that he is saying that you don't have to drain the oil but if you *don't* then you must lean the bike over and you must not forget why the bike is leaned over and raise it up while the side cover is off. Another example of why the instruction page is so important: "The next step is to remove these two gears. Each pair, top and bottom, has a thrust washer in front, and one behind. Make sure they all come off, and they all go back on!" This is just one example of something that can be a problem if you don't take your time. And again, his page gives very good advice on ways to avoid these potential problems. -- Doug Herr doug@...