new battery charging

[Jeffrey]

The physical characteristics that are normally used to characterize a seal returned from warranty include: simple visual observation of the lip area of the seal under a microscope, measurement of hardness if possible, determination of the dimensional change in ID and OD of the seals, and measurement of the lip sealing force. We have performed some of these basic measurements on commercial pinion seals soaked in two commercial fluids (one ATF and one non-ATF). Figure 9 shows the change in micro hardness of the seals after they were heated in each fluid at 93[degrees], 104[degrees], and 121[degrees]C for 250, 500. and 1,000 hours. Consistently, the seals that were soaked in 15W40 fluid became harder than the seals that were soaked in Dexron ATF fluid. We have measured the change in the inner diameters (change in ID = [final ID - initial ID]) as functions of time and temperature. When the ID of a working seal increases significantly more than the built-in interference, the seal loses its sealability. A small decrease in ID indicates moderate swelling in the region of about 5% or less. This amount of swell is needed to compensate for the small, but inevitable, initial wear that the pinion shaft would cause in seal lips. Small decreases in ID, indicating moderate swell, were observed among the seals that were soaked and heated in ATF (figure 10). The data in figure 10 further confirm the observations for slab compounds in figure 8. Figure 10 indicates that if the seals were used in conjunction with 15W40 fluid in a steering gear, they would likely lose their sealing capability sooner than the seals used in ATF-filled steering gears. The hardening of rubber compound can be linked to migration by extraction of unbonded components, which could include plasticizers plasticizers mostly triaryl phosphates, such as tricresyl, triphenyl phosphates, which are poisonous. See also triorthocresyl phosphate. , anti-degradation additives and waxes (refs. 7 and 8). Depletion of such additives leads to early degradation of properties and leakage. This is a potential result of using non-ATF fluid in gears.

[Jeffrey]

While we did not focus much attention on the heated fluid itself, we measured the respective viscosity before and after heating them for 1,000 hours at 121[degrees]C. Table 1 shows the reduction in viscosity, contrary to the expectation of a small increase in viscosity due to removal of volatiles during heating. It is, however, important to note that the heating was in a static condition, where the fluids were not worked or put under shear that could further degrade their molecular chains into smaller lengths. This absence of shearing could explain the small reduction of viscosities. We have further measured how the physical properties of seals were affected when heated in air, and compared the results to when heated in the two fluids. As expected, figures 12-14 show the adverse effect of increasing temperature on the physical properties of seals. At 121[degrees]C, the seals that were heated in 15W40 fluid became harder than those heated in air or ATF fluid. Again, the effect of heating is minimal on the seals heated in ATF. It is important to note, too, that all the tests were conducted in static conditions. The combined effect of time, temperature and dynamic articulation is a subject for future consideration. We, however, have produced road data from returned seals that were suspected of losing seal capabilities because non-ATF fluid was used in the gears. Figure 15 shows the relevant physical data (ID, hardness and sealing force) that were measured on the returned seals in a case-by-case basis and compared with that of a new seal. In all cases, the use of non-ATF fluid had significant detrimental effect on all indicators of good sealing properties of seals. [FIGURES 12-14 OMITTED] Conclusions The safe and satisfactory performance of most power assist vehicular steering systems for mobility vehicles depends on using the recommended power steering fluid in the gear. This is because the rubber seals that are integral to the inner working of gears can be adversely affected if the power steering fluid is not compatible with the seals. In the working conditions of a typical steering gear, rubber seals can swell or shrink excessively, or can be in other ways degraded by the contacting fluid. Hydrogenated nitrile (HNBR) rubber compounds and seals were studied in this work. HNBR was chosen because of its being a choice elastomer for making PS gear seals. The ATF fluids were less destructive with the two seal compounds at the temperatures investigated. The non-ATF fluid tended to extract unattached and un-bonded compounding ingredients from the rubber matrix. This leads to excessive shrinkage, increasing hardness, reduced lip flexibility, reduced interference and seal leakage.

[Bill Ahrens]

Do you not get the part where several people get 30,000 plus miles using WD-40?

 

If all your discussion leads to some evidence that by [u]not[/u] using WD-40, and using some other product, leads to chain life of [u]greater[/u] than 30,000 miles then I am listening[i][/i]

 

Bill Ahrens

Race Chairman

Tucson Sailing Club

2007 KLR 650

2006 Concours

 

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[Jud]

So, how long do your chains last?

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffrey" wrote: > > I am afraid to use anything harsh on my chain. I consider WD40, Kerosene, Gunk, gasoline, diesel to be harsh to rubber. If I have some power steering fluid or ATF on the shelf I use it. Power steering pumps and automatic transmissions have rubber O rings inside. I soak a small rag with the fluid and I just wipe off the chain as I lean the KLR on its kickstand and spin the tire. > > I do use WD40 but not on relatively new chains. WD40 is the most convenient and the small 99 cent size is easy to carry. > > SILICONE SPRAY IS THE MOST RUBBER O RING FRIENDLY THING YOU CAN SPRAY ON YOUR CHAIN. > > Don't get your fingers caught between the chain and sprocket! > > Then I dry the chain with a clean rag and I use a proper O ring chain spray; I have Bel Ray in inventory. > > From WD40 website: > How is 3-IN-ONE Multi-Purpose Oil different from WD-40? > > 3-IN-ONE Multi-Purpose Oil, with two unique spout options, enables you to lubricate items without any overspray or splatter. 3-IN-ONE Multi-Purpose Oil is ideal to use on in-line skates, tools, rollers, hinges, moving parts, skateboards, and wheels....almost everything that moves. WD-40 cleans/degreases, penetrates to loosen up stuck parts, prevents corrosion and is a light lubricant. > > What is the difference between 3-IN-ONE Multi-Purpose and 3-IN-ONE with added PTFE? > > 3-IN-ONE Multi-Purpose Oil is a precision lubricating oil for a variety of uses from lubricating moving parts to preventing rust. 3-IN-ONE with PTFE comes in an aerosol and the addition of PTFE delivers outstanding lubrication and longer lasting protection. This formula is ideal for chains, cables and gear mechanisms. i.e. bicycles. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # Silicone spray is an effective lubricant on most surfaces and is noncorrosive or nonreactive. When sprayed on hard surfaces, silicone spray is able to maintain its lubricating properties in a variety of temperature ranges and environments. Silicone will not oxidize. > Water Resistant > # Silicone spray is resistant to water so it can be used to protect items from moisture. Boat owners use silicone spray on exposed boat metals to help inhibit the development of rust. If sprayed on material, silicone spray will soak into the material and help water bead up and roll off the material. > Rubber Treatment > # Due to the moisturizing property of silicone spray, it can help prevent rubber from cracking. If applied to rubber gaskets or other rubber items that may become dried, the rubber will be sealed. A sealed rubber gasket won't leak moisture and become dried out. > > Jeffrey #3 >

[Jud]

So, how long do your chains last?

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffrey" wrote: > > The physical characteristics that are normally used to characterize a seal returned from warranty include: simple visual observation of the lip area of the seal under a microscope, measurement of hardness if possible, determination of the dimensional change in ID and OD of the seals, and measurement of the lip sealing force. We have performed some of these basic measurements on commercial pinion seals soaked in two commercial fluids (one ATF and one non-ATF). Figure 9 shows the change in micro hardness of the seals after they were heated in each fluid at 93[degrees], 104[degrees], and 121[degrees]C for 250, 500. and 1,000 hours. Consistently, the seals that were soaked in 15W40 fluid became harder than the seals that were soaked in Dexron ATF fluid. We have measured the change in the inner diameters (change in ID = [final ID - initial ID]) as functions of time and temperature. When the ID of a working seal increases significantly more than the built-in interference, the seal loses its sealability. A small decrease in ID indicates moderate swelling in the region of about 5% or less. This amount of swell is needed to compensate for the small, but inevitable, initial wear that the pinion shaft would cause in seal lips. Small decreases in ID, indicating moderate swell, were observed among the seals that were soaked and heated in ATF (figure 10). The data in figure 10 further confirm the observations for slab compounds in figure 8. Figure 10 indicates that if the seals were used in conjunction with 15W40 fluid in a steering gear, they would likely lose their sealing capability sooner than the seals used in ATF-filled steering gears. The hardening of rubber compound can be linked to migration by extraction of unbonded components, which could include plasticizers plasticizers > > mostly triaryl phosphates, such as tricresyl, triphenyl phosphates, which are poisonous. See also triorthocresyl phosphate. , anti-degradation additives and waxes (refs. 7 and 8). Depletion of such additives leads to early degradation of properties and leakage. This is a potential result of using non-ATF fluid in gears. >

[Jeffrey]

I use WD40 also. But silicone spray and ATF are much more rubber friendly. References (1.) L.R.G. Treloar, "Effect of network breakdown and reformation on the swelling of rubber in compression," Rubber Chem. & Tech., vol. 42, no. 2, p. 589 (1969). (2.) E. Southern and A.G. Thomas, "Diffusion of liquids in crosslinked rubber," Rubber Chem. & Tech., vol. 42, no. 2, p. 495 (1969). (3.) K. Ono, A. Kaeriyama and K. Murakami, "Effects of diffusion in oxidative degradation of vulcanized rubbers: I. Rate of chain scission scis sion n. 1. A separation, division, or splitting, as in fission. 2. See cleavage. in the steady state," Rubber Chem. & Tech., vol. 50, no. 1, p. 43 (1977). (4.) J.M. Bouvier Bouvier refers to several things: * Bouvier (grape) is a grape variety grown in Austria and Hungary. * Bouvier des Flandres and Bouvier Bernois are breeds of dogs. * Bouvier's Law Dictionary * Bouvier and M. Gelus, "Diffusion of heavy oil in a swelling elastomer," Rubber Chem. & Tech., vol. 59, no. 2, p. 233 (1986). (5.) H. Oikawa and K. Murakami, "Some comments on the swelling mechanism of rubber vulcanizates," Rubber Chem. & Tech., vol. 60, no. 4, p. 579 (1987). (6.) J.T. South, S.W. Case and K.L Reifsnider, "Effects of thermal aging on the mechanical properties of natural rubber," Rubber Chem. & Tech., vol. 76, no. 4, p. 785 (2003). (7.) F. Ignatz-Hoover, B.H. To, R.N. Datta, A.J. De Hoog, N.M. Huntink and A.G. Talma, "Chemical additive migration in rubber," Rubber Chem. & Tech., vol. 76, no. 3, p. 747 (2003). (8.) R.P. Campion campion: see pink. campion Any of the ornamental rock-garden or border plants that make up the genus Silene, of the pink family, consisting of about 500 species of herbaceous plants found throughout the world. , "Durability review of elastomers for severe fluid duties," Rubber Chem. & Tech., vol. 76, no. 3, p. 719(2003). (9.) Automotive Lubricants lubricants preparations for the lubrication of passages to reduce frictional injury, e.g. oily preparations, including petroleum jelly, lanolin or water-soluble preparations such as methyl cellulose. Reference Book, 2nd edition., ed. by R.F. Haycock and J.E. Hillier, p. 263, Society of Automotive Engineers SAE International (SAE) is a professional organization for mobility engineering professionals in aerospace, automotive and the commercial vehicle industries. The Society is a standards development organization for the engineering of powered vehicles of all kinds, including , SAE International, Warrendale, PA (2004). (10.) H. Ohtani, et al., "Oxidation stability of automatic transmission fluids," a study by the International Lubricants Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC ILSAC International Legal Services Advisory Council ILSAC International Lubricants Standardization and Approval Committee ) ATF Subcommittee, SAE Paper No. 2001-01-1991, Society of Automotive Engineers, Warrendale, PA (2001). (11.) E.J. Friihauf, "Automatic transmission fluids--some aspects of friction," SAE Paper No. 740051, Society of Automotive Engineers, Warrendale, PA (1974). (12.) R. Tourret and E.P. Wright, (eds.), "Performance and testing of gear oils and transmission fluids," Proceeding of the International Symposium of the Institute of Petroleum, (1980). (13.) R.F. Watts, et al., "The impact of evolving automatic transmission fluids on base oil selection," SAE Paper No. 2001-01-1992, Society of Automotive Engineers, Warrendale, PA (2001). (14.) H.E. Henderson and B. Swinney, "High quality base oil for next generation automatic transmission fluids," SAE Paper No. 982666, Society of Automotive Engineers, Warrendale, PA (1998). (15.) R.W. Miller, Lubricants and their Applications, McGraw Hill Inc., NY, 1993. (16.) SAE Fuels and Lubricants Standard Manuals, HS-23, Society of Automotive Engineers, Warrendale, PA (1997). (17.) J. Crank, Mathematics of Diffusion, Oxford Univ. Press, London, 1975. Table 1--single point viscosity (cp) of heated 7 fluids measured using Brookfield viscometer spindle #2 with guard at room temperature 15W40 Dexron Original viscosity 46.4 cp 11.89 cp 1,000 hrs. at 93[degrees]C 46.1 11.8 1,000 hrs. at 104[degrees]C 45.8 11.9 1,000 hrs. at 121[degrees]C 45.1 11.6 Average viscosity 45.67 11.77 Viscosity reduction 0.73 0.12 Vis. degradation. Index 0.02 0.01 (VDI) * * VDI = (initial value - final value)/initial value Figure 15--comparative physical characteristics of new seal and warranty seals exposed to non-ATF gear fluids (hardness data on case-1 missing) ID, lip load and IRHD hardness Spr. I.D. Spr. lip load IRHD hardness New seal 25.05 23.33 71.0 Case-1 26.49 17.48 Lip load Case-2 26.57 15.78 86.2 Case-3 26.45 15.02 88.3 Case-4 26.413 17.633 85.2 Note: Table made from bar graph. by Gabriel Osanaiye, TRW Automotive For other things named TRW, see TRW (disambiguation). On 12th December 12 2002, Northrop Grumman acquired TRW Inc. An 80.1% stake (later increased to more than 90%) in TRW Automotive Holdings, including the former LucasVarity Automotive, was spun off to (gabriel.osanaiye@trw TRW The Real World (TV reality show) TRW The Right Way TRW Tactical Reconnaissance Wing TRW The Retriever Weekly (University of Maryland, Baltimore, MD) TRW Thompson Ramo Wooldridge Inc .com)

[Jeffrey]

My chains seem to last forever but not my sprockets. I change the chain when the sprockets need changing. Jeffrey #3

[Jud]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Ahrens" wrote:

> > Do you not get the part where several people get 30,000 plus miles using > WD-40? > > > > If all your discussion leads to some evidence that by not using WD-40, and > using some other product, leads to chain life of greater than 30,000 miles > then I am listening > > >

Me too.

[Jud]

You are well-advised to do so. If your sprocket needs changing, your chain does too. So, how long do they last?

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffrey" wrote: > > My chains seem to last forever but not my sprockets. I change the chain when the sprockets need changing. > > Jeffrey #3 >

[Jeffrey]

Re: Cleaning Chain, lube You are well-advised to do so. If your sprocket needs changing, your chain does too. So, how long do they last? NOPE. My chains check out fine but I replace the chain with the sprockets when the sprocket teeth look funky. The sprockets last 15 to 20k then again front sprockets wear at a different rate than the rear. WD40 being thin isn't going to do much for the sprockets. Of course you could be obsessive and clean and lube your chain during the middle of your ride and small WD40 99 cent can is convenient for this. But, if you use up over $100 dollars of WD40 or ATF or Silicone spray, you are wasting your time. AGAIN, I USE WD40 BUT NOT ON RELATIVELY NEW CHAINS. I WANT TO PRESERVE THE RUBBER O RINGS AND THIS IS BEST DONE WITH ATF OR SILICONE SPRAY. Cleaning is best done with a cleaner and lubing best done with a lube esp. around rubber! Vasoline/Petrol products bad for rubber. ATF and silicone spray good for rubber. Vasoline/Petrol type stuff is in WD40 and if you used it on a condom; she would get knocked up! Jeffrey #3