youtube - chaps get caught in rear wheel.

[Chris McAtee]

Hey everyone. Just thought Id pop in and say hello. Just picked up my first bike. 3 days and already 150 miles. I cant wipe the SEG off my face (s... eating grin). Took it up out local mountain road (from 5300 ft elevation to just over 8000) and am planning a 300 mile trip for next week. Definately looking into some different mirrors, but other than that... this thing is great. How did I ever get around without one? Just a quick question... I work at an airport and have copious amounts of sump 100ll available to me. Anyone see a problem in running this in my KLR? I run it in my auto-x cross since its on Dellortos and has no O2 sensor to foul, so it should be fine... Id just like a second opinion before I put it in my new bike. Also, during the first few hundred miles, is the gas milage lower than what I've read as the average? Im pretty sure it was topped when I bought it, and this morning I put 2.7 in for 115 miles. Thanks! Chris in WY

[Spain and Stacey]

Chris, Welcome to the show! I just refilled mine for the first time and I got 47mpg out of it. I'm still breaking in mine too. I've religiously kept mine under 4,000 rpms but I've taken off road a few times. Spain -----Original Message----- From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris McAtee Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 9:56 PM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Newb Hey everyone. Just thought Id pop in and say hello. Just picked up my first bike. 3 days and already 150 miles. I cant wipe the SEG off my face (s... eating grin). Took it up out local mountain road (from 5300 ft elevation to just over 8000) and am planning a 300 mile trip for next week. Definately looking into some different mirrors, but other than that... this thing is great. How did I ever get around without one? Just a quick question... I work at an airport and have copious amounts of sump 100ll available to me. Anyone see a problem in running this in my KLR? I run it in my auto-x cross since its on Dellortos and has no O2 sensor to foul, so it should be fine... Id just like a second opinion before I put it in my new bike. Also, during the first few hundred miles, is the gas milage lower than what I've read as the average? Im pretty sure it was topped when I bought it, and this morning I put 2.7 in for 115 miles. Thanks! Chris in WY Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 Yahoo! Groups Links

[Blake Sobiloff]

On Apr 8, 2006, at 10:55 PM, Chris McAtee wrote:

> Just a quick question... I work at an airport and have copious > amounts of > sump 100ll available to me. Anyone see a problem in running this > in my KLR?

Aside from the fact that it's a waste of money--the KLR certainly isn't a high performance engine that needs a lot of octane--the lead can build up on the spark plug (just like in GA, as I'm sure you know). Save your money for regular unleaded and tires. -- Blake Sobiloff http://sobiloff.typepad.com/> San Jose, CA (USA)

[Greg Schmidt]

WTG Chris and welcome! As the rev would say: change gas often and and get lots of SPG (smiles per gallon). On your question of fuel; If you haven't already done so. Visit the KLR-FAQ page at: http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html#generalinformation There's a section there on fuel. I've read in a cycle rag recently about the negative effects of over octane use in motorcycle engines. I couldn't find it to quote it. I did find this site on fuels for bikes: http://www.angelfire.com/ia2/vmax/fuelnotes.htm I hadn't run av-gas in anything for many years so I refered to a gasoline FAQ site. This would concern me to run this stuff in my bike: 100LL ( low lead = 0.53mlTEL/L instead of 1.06mlTEL/L) was introduced to replace the 80/87 and 100/130. Soon after the introduction, there was a spate of plug fouling, and high cylinder head temperatures resulting in cracked cylinder heads [110]. The old 80/87 grade was reintroduced on a limited scale. The Aviation Rating is determined using the automotive Motor Octane test procedure, and then converted to an Aviation Number using a table in the method. From what I remember, The main problem with over octane is that if the engine doesn't require it, there's more of it that exits the combustion chamber unburned. it will also cause an engine to run cooler which as been an on-going discussion on this site. (the klr in cold temps could benefit from warmer operating temps.) It looks as though there is a future aftermarket thermostat/housing combo in the works for those that might want to maintain the KLR at a more consistant operating temp. (review posts by Jeff S. a few weeks ago). For sure you don't want any engine knock on a new engine. (any engine for that matter). But a new cylinder head with out any carbon deposits shouldn't need any extra octane. I've read several posts (including the Vmax site above) where dyno tests have confirmed that running the correct octane fuel for the engine actually yields the best HP numbers. -Goes against my way of thinking, I have a "more is better" complex that's gotten me in trouble on several occations. I run mid grade often but use plain old regular more than 1/2 the time. (It just feels good to think I'm treating my KLR to better gas because my smile factor was so high as I pull to the pump) If you're getting the 100LL at a price less than you can buy regular or mid-grade, you could probably run it with no ill effect. But for sure I wouldn't use it at a higher price. There really seems to be no benefit - and possibly some negatives. Your mileage and power will be lower until the rings seat. More important than the fuel, change your oil frequently while breaking in the engine. I'd change it before you leave for your 300 mile trip - and again when I got back. It's gotta be tough keeping the rev's below 4000! Welcome to KLR land - Buckle up and hang-on! Camo Greg A9 in Michigan In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Chris McAtee" wrote:

> > Hey everyone. Just thought Id pop in and say hello. Just picked

up my

> first bike. 3 days and already 150 miles. I cant wipe the SEG

off my face

> (s... eating grin). Took it up out local mountain road (from 5300

ft

> elevation to just over 8000) and am planning a 300 mile trip for

next week.

> Definately looking into some different mirrors, but other than

that... this

> thing is great. How did I ever get around without one? > > Just a quick question... I work at an airport and have copious

amounts of

> sump 100ll available to me. Anyone see a problem in running this

in my KLR?

> I run it in my auto-x cross since its on Dellortos and has no O2

sensor to

> foul, so it should be fine... Id just like a second opinion

before I put it

> in my new bike. Also, during the first few hundred miles, is the

gas milage

> lower than what I've read as the average? Im pretty sure it was

topped when

> I bought it, and this morning I put 2.7 in for 115 miles. > > Thanks! > > Chris in WY >

[revmaaatin]

Hi Chris, Welcome to the KLR! and Greg, great post by the way. Dearly beloved, of the (my) KLR congregation, I don't use much 100LL anymore...JET A is my go-juice of choice. Nothing like the smell of kerosene in the morning....I digress. The previous discussion here is of a technical sort, but I would suggest a different line, so to speak, proposing a different question: Instead of "Is it ok to run 100LL?" how about this: Will running 100LL (Aviation Gasoline) make my KLR run better, safer, more dependable, etc.? Short answer: No. Long answer: Noooooo. Some of this question has been answered (thanks Greg,).... From my personal experience, at an airport where I used to fly, the grounds man used slumped fuel in the lawn mower, and had to change the plug ~every 10 hours, due to lead fouling. (sounds like a good deal, free gas, buy sparkplugs...) Conversely, I see that the same would hold true for the KLR, it would be lead fouling plugs, also, maybe not in 10 hours, but soon. True, you would be getting free gas, and the offset in the cost of the plug, it would be cheaper, but what a pain. For me, having a fouled plug in the KLR would not be a bonus, even if the fuel is free, which sounds like it is. Even if the cost were inverted, that is, they paid you to take the fuel, it would not be a bargain, as the safety issue of having your bike burp, stall, or just plain quit at an intersection, or in the boonies, would be 'inconvenient' to say the least. Would you stake your life on a bike/gas combination that might lead to death or injury, beyond the normal 'danger' of riding a motorcycle? (HINT: see short answer above. For a second opinion: see long answer above) All of this is part of our own personal risk management: How much risk are you willing to accept, by using something unorthodox. As for me, 100LL would be acceptable in the KLR or turbine- aircraft...but only as a last resort. My final answer: 100LL only as a last resort.... Now, Go change that gas, and change it often! I am going to close now, (sidebar comment:) and Pay very close attention to the air-pressure in your new bike. The bike's footprint is the only thing that is between "thee, and me", so to speak, a call to 911. The KAWI recommended tire pressure is for "dual-purpose" and is low for canyon carving, and aggressive leaned turns. (Sliding a 21psi tire at 60mph may not land you at 911, but it will make the individual doing your laundry wonder why your shorts have skid marks! Don't ask me how I know!!! Not knowing why, I asked the list, and I did find the answer here at KLR INFO-DEPOT in Nov 2003.) Most find pressures closer to 30/32 F/R psi better than the approx 21-24psi book values (talking from memory, 120 miles away from my bike today) Buy a tire gauge and put it in your tank-bag or riding jacket and check the tire pressure, often, weekly at least. (the choir may now say, A-Men) revmaaatin. on duty @ 911 Aberdeen, SD, with a tank full of Jet A --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Schmidt" wrote:

> > WTG Chris and welcome! As the rev would say: change gas often and > and get lots of SPG (smiles per gallon). > > On your question of fuel; > If you haven't already done so. Visit the KLR-FAQ page at: > http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html#generalinformation > There's a section there on fuel. > > I've read in a cycle rag recently about the negative effects of

over

> octane use in motorcycle engines. I couldn't find it to quote

it.

> I did find this site on fuels for bikes: > http://www.angelfire.com/ia2/vmax/fuelnotes.htm > > I hadn't run av-gas in anything for many years so I refered to a > gasoline FAQ site. This would concern me to run this stuff in my > bike: > > 100LL ( low lead = 0.53mlTEL/L instead of 1.06mlTEL/L) was > introduced to replace the 80/87 and 100/130. Soon after the > introduction, there was a spate of plug fouling, and high cylinder > head temperatures resulting in cracked cylinder heads [110]. The

old

> 80/87 grade was reintroduced on a limited scale. The Aviation

Rating

> is determined using the automotive Motor Octane test procedure,

and

> then converted to an Aviation Number using a table in the method. > > From what I remember, The main problem with over octane is that if > the engine doesn't require it, there's more of it that exits the > combustion chamber unburned. it will also cause an engine to run > cooler which as been an on-going discussion on this site. (the

klr

> in cold temps could benefit from warmer operating temps.) It looks > as though there is a future aftermarket thermostat/housing combo

in

> the works for those that might want to maintain the KLR at a more > consistant operating temp. (review posts by Jeff S. a few weeks > ago). > > For sure you don't want any engine knock on a new engine. (any > engine for that matter). But a new cylinder head with out any

carbon

> deposits shouldn't need any extra octane. I've read several posts > (including the Vmax site above) where dyno tests have confirmed

that

> running the correct octane fuel for the engine actually yields the > best HP numbers. -Goes against my way of thinking, I have a "more

is

> better" complex that's gotten me in trouble on several occations. > > I run mid grade often but use plain old regular more than 1/2 the > time. (It just feels good to think I'm treating my KLR to better > gas because my smile factor was so high as I pull to the pump) > > If you're getting the 100LL at a price less than you can buy

regular

> or mid-grade, you could probably run it with no ill effect. But

for

> sure I wouldn't use it at a higher price. There really seems to

be

> no benefit - and possibly some negatives. > > Your mileage and power will be lower until the rings seat. More > important than the fuel, change your oil frequently while breaking > in the engine. I'd change it before you leave for your 300 mile > trip - and again when I got back. > > It's gotta be tough keeping the rev's below 4000! > Welcome to KLR land - Buckle up and hang-on! > > > Camo Greg A9 in Michigan > > > In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Chris McAtee" wrote: > > > > Hey everyone. Just thought Id pop in and say hello. Just

picked

> up my > > first bike. 3 days and already 150 miles. I cant wipe the SEG > off my face > > (s... eating grin). Took it up out local mountain road (from

5300

> ft > > elevation to just over 8000) and am planning a 300 mile trip for > next week. > > Definately looking into some different mirrors, but other than > that... this > > thing is great. How did I ever get around without one? > > > > Just a quick question... I work at an airport and have copious > amounts of > > sump 100ll available to me. Anyone see a problem in running

this

> in my KLR? > > I run it in my auto-x cross since its on Dellortos and has no

O2

> sensor to > > foul, so it should be fine... Id just like a second opinion > before I put it > > in my new bike. Also, during the first few hundred miles, is

the

> gas milage > > lower than what I've read as the average? Im pretty sure it was > topped when > > I bought it, and this morning I put 2.7 in for 115 miles. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Chris in WY > > >

[Chris McAtee]

Wow, thanks for the info everyone! I was just curious about the 100ll because its free to me. Like I said, I run it in my 90 Jetta auto-X car and have had no fouling or any other ill effects. Of course it is far from stock. Also, like I said, this is my first bike ever. Im a pretty mechanically able fellow, but Im just plain ignorant on what to look for/when to look for it. I've read the owners manual, and Im looking around for a shop manual too. Anyone got any sites on general motorcycle care/maintenance? The FAQ has been awesome. Im actually just heading out the door to grab some locktite... Thanks again! Chris

[John Biccum]

There is another argument against running this free fuel in your KLR. Doing so would be evading the federal excise tax on highway fuel. I don't know what the penalty is for that, but I'm sure its not something to take lightly. Federal tax evasion can be a felony, ask Al Capone -----Original Message----- From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of revmaaatin Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 7:37 AM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Newb Hi Chris, Welcome to the KLR! and Greg, great post by the way. Dearly beloved, of the (my) KLR congregation, I don't use much 100LL anymore...JET A is my go-juice of choice. Nothing like the smell of kerosene in the morning....I digress. The previous discussion here is of a technical sort, but I would suggest a different line, so to speak, proposing a different question: Instead of "Is it ok to run 100LL?" how about this: Will running 100LL (Aviation Gasoline) make my KLR run better, safer, more dependable, etc.? Short answer: No. Long answer: Noooooo. Some of this question has been answered (thanks Greg,).... From my personal experience, at an airport where I used to fly, the grounds man used slumped fuel in the lawn mower, and had to change the plug ~every 10 hours, due to lead fouling. (sounds like a good deal, free gas, buy sparkplugs...) Conversely, I see that the same would hold true for the KLR, it would be lead fouling plugs, also, maybe not in 10 hours, but soon. True, you would be getting free gas, and the offset in the cost of the plug, it would be cheaper, but what a pain. For me, having a fouled plug in the KLR would not be a bonus, even if the fuel is free, which sounds like it is. Even if the cost were inverted, that is, they paid you to take the fuel, it would not be a bargain, as the safety issue of having your bike burp, stall, or just plain quit at an intersection, or in the boonies, would be 'inconvenient' to say the least. Would you stake your life on a bike/gas combination that might lead to death or injury, beyond the normal 'danger' of riding a motorcycle? (HINT: see short answer above. For a second opinion: see long answer above) All of this is part of our own personal risk management: How much risk are you willing to accept, by using something unorthodox. As for me, 100LL would be acceptable in the KLR or turbine- aircraft...but only as a last resort. My final answer: 100LL only as a last resort.... Now, Go change that gas, and change it often! I am going to close now, (sidebar comment:) and Pay very close attention to the air-pressure in your new bike. The bike's footprint is the only thing that is between "thee, and me", so to speak, a call to 911. The KAWI recommended tire pressure is for "dual-purpose" and is low for canyon carving, and aggressive leaned turns. (Sliding a 21psi tire at 60mph may not land you at 911, but it will make the individual doing your laundry wonder why your shorts have skid marks! Don't ask me how I know!!! Not knowing why, I asked the list, and I did find the answer here at KLR INFO-DEPOT in Nov 2003.) Most find pressures closer to 30/32 F/R psi better than the approx 21-24psi book values (talking from memory, 120 miles away from my bike today) Buy a tire gauge and put it in your tank-bag or riding jacket and check the tire pressure, often, weekly at least. (the choir may now say, A-Men) revmaaatin. on duty @ 911 Aberdeen, SD, with a tank full of Jet A --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Schmidt" wrote:

> > WTG Chris and welcome! As the rev would say: change gas often and and > get lots of SPG (smiles per gallon). > > On your question of fuel; > If you haven't already done so. Visit the KLR-FAQ page at: > http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html#generalinformation > There's a section there on fuel. > > I've read in a cycle rag recently about the negative effects of

over

> octane use in motorcycle engines. I couldn't find it to quote

it.

> I did find this site on fuels for bikes: > http://www.angelfire.com/ia2/vmax/fuelnotes.htm > > I hadn't run av-gas in anything for many years so I refered to a > gasoline FAQ site. This would concern me to run this stuff in my > bike: > > 100LL ( low lead = 0.53mlTEL/L instead of 1.06mlTEL/L) was introduced > to replace the 80/87 and 100/130. Soon after the introduction, there > was a spate of plug fouling, and high cylinder head temperatures > resulting in cracked cylinder heads [110]. The

old

> 80/87 grade was reintroduced on a limited scale. The Aviation

Rating

> is determined using the automotive Motor Octane test procedure,

and

> then converted to an Aviation Number using a table in the method. > > From what I remember, The main problem with over octane is that if the > engine doesn't require it, there's more of it that exits the > combustion chamber unburned. it will also cause an engine to run > cooler which as been an on-going discussion on this site. (the

klr

> in cold temps could benefit from warmer operating temps.) It looks as > though there is a future aftermarket thermostat/housing combo

in

> the works for those that might want to maintain the KLR at a more > consistant operating temp. (review posts by Jeff S. a few weeks ago). > > For sure you don't want any engine knock on a new engine. (any engine > for that matter). But a new cylinder head with out any

carbon

> deposits shouldn't need any extra octane. I've read several posts > (including the Vmax site above) where dyno tests have confirmed

that

> running the correct octane fuel for the engine actually yields the > best HP numbers. -Goes against my way of thinking, I have a "more

is

> better" complex that's gotten me in trouble on several occations. > > I run mid grade often but use plain old regular more than 1/2 the > time. (It just feels good to think I'm treating my KLR to better gas > because my smile factor was so high as I pull to the pump) > > If you're getting the 100LL at a price less than you can buy

regular

> or mid-grade, you could probably run it with no ill effect. But

for

> sure I wouldn't use it at a higher price. There really seems to

be

> no benefit - and possibly some negatives. > > Your mileage and power will be lower until the rings seat. More > important than the fuel, change your oil frequently while breaking in > the engine. I'd change it before you leave for your 300 mile trip - > and again when I got back. > > It's gotta be tough keeping the rev's below 4000! > Welcome to KLR land - Buckle up and hang-on! > > > Camo Greg A9 in Michigan > > > In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Chris McAtee" wrote: > > > > Hey everyone. Just thought Id pop in and say hello. Just

picked

> up my > > first bike. 3 days and already 150 miles. I cant wipe the SEG > off my face > > (s... eating grin). Took it up out local mountain road (from

5300

> ft > > elevation to just over 8000) and am planning a 300 mile trip for > next week. > > Definately looking into some different mirrors, but other than > that... this > > thing is great. How did I ever get around without one? > > > > Just a quick question... I work at an airport and have copious > amounts of > > sump 100ll available to me. Anyone see a problem in running

this

> in my KLR? > > I run it in my auto-x cross since its on Dellortos and has no

O2

> sensor to > > foul, so it should be fine... Id just like a second opinion > before I put it > > in my new bike. Also, during the first few hundred miles, is

the

> gas milage > > lower than what I've read as the average? Im pretty sure it was > topped when > > I bought it, and this morning I put 2.7 in for 115 miles. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Chris in WY > > >

Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 Yahoo! Groups Links

[Matt Knowles]

On Apr 9, 2006, at 7:37 AM, revmaaatin wrote:

> slumped fuel

For those of us who don't know our way around airfields, what are we talking about here? Matt Knowles - Ferndale, CA - http://www.knowlesville.com/matt/motorcycles '99 Sprint ST - for going fast and far (2CZUSA) '01 KLR650 (A15) - for exploring the North Coast backroads '97 KLX300 & '01 Lakota - for playing in the dirt '79 KZ400 - just because it was the first vehicle I ever owned

[jokerloco9@aol.com]

I forget all the details, but avgas is very different from car Gas. It is more than just the octane rating. It is also formulated differently to deal with effects like greatly different altitudes, and to prevent vapor lock. By the way, in case you care the dual rating 100/130 means lean/rich setting. (aircraft have fuel mixture controls in cockpit). You change mixture as you fly. ex: cruise leaner for economy, or richer for power. But watch your EGT. I worked at an airport for 2 years, and we had our share of street racers stop by. And no, you are not supposed to put it in a car, as you are not paying the state and federal road taxes in avgas. Everything I have ever read from legitimate sources says running avgas in a car/bike is not a good idea. If you think gas is gas, then go research how many different types of race gas there is. Off the top of my head, I'm guessing about 50. (I use VP110 in my race cars). Jeff A20 yeah, I know it isn't an A20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[revmaaatin]

Slumped fuel: that is fuel that will not stand up straight when you talk to it. as in, The fuel sample slumped over the table as it was being interrogated by the mean KLRista.... no. that's not it. Not slumped, sumped. I misspelled sump. The 'sump' is the low point in the fuel cell and allows water to collect and then be drained during a preflight inspection. Sumped fuel is what you drain from the cell to check for water in the gas. In a worst case scenario, jet fuel suspend up to 30%water for up to 3 hours. 30%. I once took two quarts of water from a helo sump...albeit it was while operating from a ship, where water in the fuel is more common, and fuel samples more critical. revmaaatin.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Matt Knowles wrote: > > > On Apr 9, 2006, at 7:37 AM, revmaaatin wrote: > > > slumped fuel > > For those of us who don't know our way around airfields, what are we > talking about here? > > Matt Knowles - Ferndale, CA - > http://www.knowlesville.com/matt/motorcycles > '99 Sprint ST - for going fast and far (2CZUSA) > '01 KLR650 (A15) - for exploring the North Coast backroads > '97 KLX300 & '01 Lakota - for playing in the dirt > '79 KZ400 - just because it was the first vehicle I ever owned >