klr 250 tire

[mudokongrl]

hi folks, i have a 4 month old 2009 KLR with just over 4000 miles on it. in my 4th week of ownership, i checked the valves, all were in middle of spec so i let them be. went for a 100 mile ride and as i pulled into my driveway the bike died. i couldnt get it started. things i checked were: fuel in the tank petcock worked and was not blocked. vacuum line (removed the fuel line, bucket underpetcock, cranked the bike) pulled the seat and tank and checked all the wiring. checked for spark checked air filter. couldnt get it started after all that, threw my hands up in disgust and called it a night. the next morning i went to load it into my truck to take to the dealership, the bike started right up and idled nicely. what the hell...i went for a ride, it went great. screw the dealership, i ride it into work, get to the parking lot at work and the bike dies. i call the dealership and they say to bring it in. i go out to it at lunch time, the bike starts, so i ride it to the dealership where it promptly dies and they cant get it started. a week later they call me to come get the bike, they couldnt find anything wrong with it, they pulled the carb and found nothing wrong, when they put the carb on everything fired up and worked. i pick it up and ride it and all is good with the world. fast forward to 5 days ago, same symptoms come back. however, this time i work out that opening the gas cap and turning the petcock to reserve gets the bike to start after 2-4 attempts. for the last 5 days, each day the bike dies while im going down the road, turning it to reserve while the engine is dead but im still rolling down the road, and attempting to start it, never works. i pull over, pop the gas cap, turn to reserve, it starts and i ride home. it has never done this with more than half a tank of gas in the tank. sounds like tank venting right? i check the vent line, its not blocked. i removed the vent seals in the gas cap. its still dying. in short: the carb hs supposedly been pulled out and apart. the vacuum line is good and unblocked. the petcock is not blocked. the tank vents. it never happens with over half a tank of gas in the tank. it always restarts after popping open the tank and turning to reserve. the battery is good (12.6v). there is spark the wiring harness looks good (no rubbing etc). it stutters and jerks for about 20 seconds before dying. turning to reserve and trying to start it while still rolling down the road after it dies never works (seems i have to pop open the gas cap, which i havent done while rolling down the road). i dont see it being bad gas because it always restarts and runs fine afterwards. what the heck am i missing?

[Dennis Griffin]

Hi Jason, It sounds to me like you checked the liquid (water) drain line, not the vent line. The gas tank vent pathway starts at the hole in the center of the bottom of the gas cap, which sees the tank interior. It then passes through the cap and whatever is going on in there to allow one way air equalization, but not fuel passage (from sloshing). This pathway then exits the gas cap through the nipple on the underside of the cap, outside of the rubber tank sealing ring. When the cap is closed, this nipple connects to a tube that passes through the tank interior. This tube terminates under the cap with the small "O" ring that can be seen in the well (depression around filler opening) in the top of the tank, same place the liquid drain opens (the one you put a straw in?). The other end of this vent tube comes out the back of the tank, under the front of the seat, along with a gas return line. The vent line fitting has the blue marker, the gas return fitting has a red marker. The rubber tube connected to this vent line fitting then proceeds down the left middle of the frame, connecting to the emission system separator, that round black plastic thingy that you have to move out of the way to get to your shock preload adjuster. This pathway is where I would be looking for blockage. I would try gently blowing down through this pathway (vacuum tube placed on "O" ring?) with the tube disconnected from the separator. Use caution as there could be raw fuel, or gasoline vapors, in this line!!! Don't suck or have ignition sources nearby!!! If you find this pathway to pass air freely, then you might have a bad separator. A dealer should be able to test this device, if they haven't already. I would reassemble the cap internals, as this could be replaced under warranty, if found to be at fault, but not if it shows signs of modification. Another area I would check is the vacuum line that withdraws the diaphram in the fuel petcock. If something isn't operating properly in that system, you might get enough gas into the carb bowl when the tank has more content, due to the force of gravity and weight, but not enough as the fuel level drops. I know you said you checked this, but it might be worth double checking. Unlikely, but a deficiency in the operation of both these systems could be ganging up on you. I'd be curious to know what kinds of temperatures exist during these adventures. I sometimes find my '09 wheezing after a ride on a warm (hot) Phoenix day. Opening the cap stops this. This is partly why I suspect the tank vent is one way, allowing a vacuum to be equalized, but not pressure. Having gasoline vapors exiting the system could be dangerous, among other considerations. In your case, opening the cap is breaking the vacuum that may be the root cause of your problems. Hope this gets you on the right track. Dennis KD7CAC PS Switching to reserve when the problem occurs is only confirming that the cause isn't solely a fuel level issue. However, if your fuel level was nearing the switchover point, leaning the bike hard right might break a vacuum in the tank by dropping the fuel level below the main pickup, allowing the tank interior to equalize with the carb bowl. Or maybe not - just a weird thought.

On Aug 26, 2009, at 8:02 PM, Jason . wrote: > yes, stutters and jerks like its out of gas. however, switching to > reserve while the bike is still running doesnt stop if from dying. > once dead, if i am rolling down the road at 50 mph and switching to > reserve it still wont start. doesnt seem to start until i open the > gas cap. > > i checked tank venting by putting a straw to the opening in the gas > cap ring, and blowing through it, while my wife held her hand over > the bottom of the vent tube at the bottom of the bike, she felt > plenty of air coming through. i have removed the vent seals within > the gas cap in case they were sticking. i know all signs point to a > venting issue, but it just isnt blocked anywhere. > > From: eagleeyedennis@... > To: jason_555@... > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] little help needed > Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:17:36 -0700 > > Stutters & jerks like when it's time to switch to reserve? > > Do you have a service manual? > > How did you check the tank venting? > > Dennis KD7CAC > > > > On Aug 26, 2009, at 6:11 PM, mudokongrl wrote: > > hi folks, > > i have a 4 month old 2009 KLR with just over 4000 miles on it. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jeff Saline]

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 01:11:56 -0000 "mudokongrl" writes:

> hi folks, > > i have a 4 month old 2009 KLR with just over 4000 miles on it. > > in my 4th week of ownership, i checked the valves, all were in > middle of spec so i let them be. went for a 100 mile ride and as i > pulled into my driveway the bike died. i couldnt get it started. > > things i checked were: > > fuel in the tank > petcock worked and was not blocked. > vacuum line (removed the fuel line, bucket underpetcock, cranked the > bike) > pulled the seat and tank and checked all the wiring. > checked for spark > checked air filter. > > couldnt get it started after all that, threw my hands up in disgust > and called it a night. the next morning i went to load it into my > truck to take to the dealership, the bike started right up and idled > nicely. what the hell...i went for a ride, it went great. screw the > dealership, i ride it into work, get to the parking lot at work and > the bike dies. i call the dealership and they say to bring it in. i > go out to it at lunch time, the bike starts, so i ride it to the > dealership where it promptly dies and they cant get it started. > > a week later they call me to come get the bike, they couldnt find > anything wrong with it, they pulled the carb and found nothing > wrong, when they put the carb on everything fired up and worked. i > pick it up and ride it and all is good with the world. > > fast forward to 5 days ago, same symptoms come back. however, this > time i work out that opening the gas cap and turning the petcock to > reserve gets the bike to start after 2-4 attempts. for the last 5 > days, each day the bike dies while im going down the road, turning > it to reserve while the engine is dead but im still rolling down the > road, and attempting to start it, never works. i pull over, pop the > gas cap, turn to reserve, it starts and i ride home. it has never > done this with more than half a tank of gas in the tank. > > sounds like tank venting right? i check the vent line, its not > blocked. i removed the vent seals in the gas cap. its still dying. > > in short: > > the carb hs supposedly been pulled out and apart. > the vacuum line is good and unblocked. > the petcock is not blocked. > the tank vents. > it never happens with over half a tank of gas in the tank. > it always restarts after popping open the tank and turning to > reserve. > the battery is good (12.6v). > there is spark > the wiring harness looks good (no rubbing etc). > it stutters and jerks for about 20 seconds before dying. > turning to reserve and trying to start it while still rolling down > the road after it dies never works (seems i have to pop open the gas > cap, which i havent done while rolling down the road). > i dont see it being bad gas because it always restarts and runs fine > afterwards. > > what the heck am i missing?

<><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><> mudokongrl, Sounds like you've been working hard to fix this situation. The stutters for 20 seconds before it dies makes it sound like a fuel delivery issue. If I was trying to solve this issue I think this is what I'd try. Next time it did this I'd immediately turn off the fuel supply at the petcock and then drain the float bowl. I'd expect nothing to come out since I think you are starving for fuel. If that is confirmed with no fuel I would leave the float drain open, turn on the petcock and crank the bike and see if fuel comes out the drain. Should only take a few seconds of cranking to confirm fuel or not. If not I'd disconnect the vacuum line at the carb and apply vacuum to the line and see if that allowed fuel to flow. Again, petcock open and float bowl drain open. I'm betting fuel will now flow and that it's a vacuum line collapsing from the heat restricting fuel flow. If that doesn't make a difference I'd be pulling the petcock, cleaning and inspecting it and the diaphragm for flaws. To save the hassle of messing with all the above right away I'd consider replacing the vacuum line from the carb to the petcock with some new line that is a bit heavier. On another list a few guys have talked about the stock vacuum line failing under hot conditions causing a no flow fuel condition. If that fails I'd probably try an alternate fuel source for a ride and see if I could eliminate the tank from the problem or confirm it might be the tank. I think the carb on is ok for fuel delivery from what you've described. Good luck with your troubleshooting. Let us know how it goes. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT . ____________________________________________________________ Life Insurance Quote Save up to 70% on Life Insurance. Compare rates from top providers. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=YHX0yBLQt2INVR8aS8F9SwAAJ1DWfJIDP-R0_NC3mMpGFS0kAAQAAAAFAAAAAN9PTT4AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAE1lHAAAAAA==

[Dennis Griffin]

Curious. I was under the impression that there is only one '09 model, a 50 state model, with separator & charcoal canister. Apparently not. I would think that the high temps would lessen the problem, if vent line related, as internal pressure builds with the heat, more so, I think, as the level drops. But if the engine vacuum isn't getting to the diaphragm to hold it open, the pressure probably isn't enough to overcome this. But then that raises the question as to why it will run for a while, then die. Maybe as the vacuum tube warms, it softens and allows the tubing to collapse. Might also be worth looking at the possibility of a vacuum leak as the bike gets hot, rather than the vacuum line collapsing. I think it was Big Cee that used to offer a vacuum elimination kit for the petcock. Don't know if there is a current equivalent. Back to the possibility of a venting problem, did you have to blow hard through the vent line to allow flow? You might try again with very gentle pressure. In operation, there really isn't any appreciable flow or pressure, just slight equalization to atmospheric pressure as conditions change. Anyway, either condition could be causing what would seem to be a fuel starvation problem. It's now just a matter of determining which, or what combination. Not to further confound the issue, but it seems to me there may have been some discussion here a while back about a few riders having vapor lock like symptoms under hot riding conditions. Might be worth researching. Dennis KD7CAC

On Aug 27, 2009, at 7:20 AM, mudokongrl wrote: > Hi Dennis, > > i am guessing thats yours is a california model? i dont have any of > that extra stuff you mention. i checked the vent line by placing a > straw in the opening of the gas cap ring, that has a small o-ring. > the nipple from the gas cap slots into it when its closed. from > there, it goes to the back of the tank into a 90 degree fitting > (thats part of the tank) into a line that goes straight down to the > bottom of the bike. > > i have no blue/red markers, or seperator. > > i am in texas, and right now we are on our 66th straight day over > 100 degrees, so its pretty hot out and about. ive read in a few > places now that the vacuum line can collapse due to heat, so i am > going to replace that and see where i end up. > > wrote: >> >> Hi Jason, >> >> It sounds to me like you checked the liquid (water) drain line, not >> the vent line. The gas tank vent pathway starts at the hole in the >> center of the bottom of the gas cap, which sees the tank interior. It >> then passes through the cap and whatever is going on in there to >> allow >> one way air equalization, but not fuel passage (from sloshing). This >> pathway then exits the gas cap through the nipple on the underside of >> the cap, outside of the rubber tank sealing ring. When the cap is >> closed, this nipple connects to a tube that passes through the tank >> interior. This tube terminates under the cap with the small "O" ring >> that can be seen in the well (depression around filler opening) in >> the >> top of the tank, same place the liquid drain opens (the one you put a >> straw in?). The other end of this vent tube comes out the back of the >> tank, under the front of the seat, along with a gas return line. The >> vent line fitting has the blue marker, the gas return fitting has a >> red marker. The rubber tube connected to this vent line fitting then >> proceeds down the left middle of the frame, connecting to the >> emission >> system separator, that round black plastic thingy that you have to >> move out of the way to get to your shock preload adjuster. This >> pathway is where I would be looking for blockage. I would try gently >> blowing down through this pathway (vacuum tube placed on "O" ring?) >> with the tube disconnected from the separator. Use caution as there >> could be raw fuel, or gasoline vapors, in this line!!! Don't suck or >> have ignition sources nearby!!! >> >> If you find this pathway to pass air freely, then you might have a >> bad >> separator. A dealer should be able to test this device, if they >> haven't already. I would reassemble the cap internals, as this could >> be replaced under warranty, if found to be at fault, but not if it >> shows signs of modification. Another area I would check is the vacuum >> line that withdraws the diaphram in the fuel petcock. If something >> isn't operating properly in that system, you might get enough gas >> into >> the carb bowl when the tank has more content, due to the force of >> gravity and weight, but not enough as the fuel level drops. I know >> you >> said you checked this, but it might be worth double checking. >> Unlikely, but a deficiency in the operation of both these systems >> could be ganging up on you. >> >> I'd be curious to know what kinds of temperatures exist during these >> adventures. I sometimes find my '09 wheezing after a ride on a warm >> (hot) Phoenix day. Opening the cap stops this. This is partly why I >> suspect the tank vent is one way, allowing a vacuum to be equalized, >> but not pressure. Having gasoline vapors exiting the system could be >> dangerous, among other considerations. In your case, opening the cap >> is breaking the vacuum that may be the root cause of your problems. >> >> Hope this gets you on the right track. >> >> Dennis KD7CAC >> >> PS Switching to reserve when the problem occurs is only confirming >> that the cause isn't solely a fuel level issue. However, if your fuel >> level was nearing the switchover point, leaning the bike hard right >> might break a vacuum in the tank by dropping the fuel level below the >> main pickup, allowing the tank interior to equalize with the carb >> bowl. Or maybe not - just a weird thought. >> >> On Aug 26, 2009, at 8:02 PM, Jason . wrote: >> >>> yes, stutters and jerks like its out of gas. however, switching to >>> reserve while the bike is still running doesnt stop if from dying. >>> once dead, if i am rolling down the road at 50 mph and switching to >>> reserve it still wont start. doesnt seem to start until i open the >>> gas cap. >>> >>> i checked tank venting by putting a straw to the opening in the gas >>> cap ring, and blowing through it, while my wife held her hand over >>> the bottom of the vent tube at the bottom of the bike, she felt >>> plenty of air coming through. i have removed the vent seals within >>> the gas cap in case they were sticking. i know all signs point to a >>> venting issue, but it just isnt blocked anywhere. >>> >>> From: eagleeyedennis@... >>> To: jason_555@... >>> Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] little help needed >>> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:17:36 -0700 >>> >>> Stutters & jerks like when it's time to switch to reserve? >>> >>> Do you have a service manual? >>> >>> How did you check the tank venting? >>> >>> Dennis KD7CAC >>> >>> >>> >>> On Aug 26, 2009, at 6:11 PM, mudokongrl wrote: >>> >>> hi folks, >>> >>> i have a 4 month old 2009 KLR with just over 4000 miles on it. >

[revmaaatin]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, yovern@... wrote:

> > 120/90 - 17 with no problems at all. Anything larger and you may have > problems depending upon tread design. > > Have fun & Ride safe, Anthony > D16 > '83 R100RS > '03 GL1800A

Anthony, thanks for the reply. I see that this is roughly the 4.60x17 OEM revmaaatin.