just my luck

[Mark St.Hilaire, Sr]

> My Dex-Cool is the Havoline (Texaco) stuff and it indicates no > silicate/phosphate additive on the jug, I'm virtually certain there's > a standard formulation of...

I also use the Havoline Dex-Cool, (Wal-Mart sells it, which makes getting it convenient), and the label says something along the lines of increased water pump life, so I assume it must NOT have the "bad" stuff in it, the stuff we're worried about putting into our bikes. Mark St.Hilaire, Sr msaint@... A15 My HomePage: http://home.adelphia.net/~msaint/index.html My KLR650 Pages: http://klr6500.tripod.com/ Valve Check & Adjustment Guide: http://klr6500.tripod.com/valves.html

[Dan Pauley]

Just so you know, Generic cheap-o Wal-Mart brand coolant may not be good for your motorcycle. Please don't think I compare this to the oil debate. Seems among other things, your standard coolant contains silicates and phosphates. Works great in a standard iron block chebby or fode but not so well in yur mota-cicle. Someone doing preventive maintenance by changing the coolant can actually do harm to the bike. (don't ask how I know this is true.) It seems in the presence of such great quantities of aluminum over time the silicates will come out of solution and form SAND. Yikes. Yep sand, so this sand runs though the cooling system and eventually goes after the mechanical seal, the water pump bearing, and oil seal.. The symptom is oil in the coolant. Look inside the radiator near the cap. Got oil in that water? Ott Oh. So there are options. 1. (Most expensive) Get the Brand name coolant from the motorcycle shop. Sold by the quart ready to use (no need to mix with water) (Better get some of that special purpose $75/qt. motorcycle specific synthetic oil as well, Dooohhhh) 2. (Least expensive) Get coolant for aluminum block engines. Several brands are now available. Prestone Extended life is what I use but several are available. Ensure they state "silicate and phosphate free" on the bottle. Use this stuff and mix it 50/50 with distilled water. DISTILLED water, not mineral water, not drinking water, not tap water. Distilled = pure water, no contaminants to obstruct heat transfer. Distilled water is Very Expensive (nearly a buck-fiddy a gallon at Wal-Mart) Ride 'em and maintain 'em as you see fit. Dan / \

[Tengai Mark Van Horn]

I change mine every couple of years, or whenever I have the clutch cover off. My question is... What do you folks think about the "enviro-safe" coolants out there, like Sierra... or is it Sierra Mist? Do they work as well? Whenever I'm draining my cooling system, I get worried about my pets licking it up if I turn my back, and there's also the disposal issue of ethylene glycol. Are those safe coolants propylene glycol? Also, are they compatible with standard ethylene glycol coolants if I just wanted to top of the coolant in my car or someone else's vehicle, or do I have to flush & replace? Thanks, Mark http://www.reelrider.com/noab05 At 2:09 PM +0000 4/14/05, sopwithv wrote:

>How often should the coolent be changed in the KLR. By the way I just >retired and now have time to fully enjoy my 2001 KLR650, even thinking >about also getting a KLR250 for more off road exploring.

[Blake Sobiloff]

On Apr 14, 2005, at 7:31 AM, Tengai Mark Van Horn wrote:

> My question is... What do you folks think about the "enviro-safe" > coolants out there, like Sierra... or is it Sierra Mist? Do they > work as well?

I've been using Sierra in my cars, trucks, and bikes for about 10 years and haven't ever had a cooling system problem.

> Are those safe coolants propylene glycol?

At least Sierra is.

> Also, are they compatible > with standard ethylene glycol coolants if I just wanted to top of the > coolant in my car or someone else's vehicle, or do I have to flush & > replace?

That I don't know. Their website doesn't say; it only says to flush and fill with Sierra. I sent them the question via their website. I'll let folks know if I get an answer. -- Blake Sobiloff San Mateo, CA (USA)

[April Neave & Norm Keller]

Most cage manufacturers used to recommend changing coolant every three years. On the KLR I dumped mine after the first year (no way of knowing how old the factory batch was). Since it uses so little at a 50/50 mix, ever year seems like a good interval. I will avoid the Dex-cool type coolants for two reasons: Some of my customers have talked about problems with some batches; My experience has been extensive with the old, green ethylene-glycol and so no reason to tempt things by changing. The problem with old coolant is that the ethylene-glycol is corrosive and so buffers are added to control this. It is the buffer package which ".wears out". Additives are available to replenish the buffers but the coolant capacity of the KLR is so tiny that it is simply not practical to do so IMO. An organic chemist told me that ethylene-glycol is very similar to a big sugar molecule. He claimed that this is why the taste buds perceive it as sweet and also claimed that the sewage treatment plant bugs would eat the glycol unless large quantities were introduced. While I find this to be interesting trivia, I do not dump coolant into the local sewage system simply because I do not want to have the poop police after me. If the guy is wrong, I don't want to be responsible. A local collection point accepts oil, old antifreeze, etc. HIH Norm

[Walter Mitty]

Have y'all noticed that all the coolants on the market seem to have gone to the Dexcool formulation even though they may not have changed color. Even the traditional Prestone green stuff is now marketed as an extended life anti-freeze that is compatible with all other colors of anti-freeze. When you look at the labels this "new" green stuff has the same ingredients as the Dexcool stuff. April Neave & Norm Keller wrote: Most cage manufacturers used to recommend changing coolant every three years. On the KLR I dumped mine after the first year (no way of knowing how old the factory batch was). Since it uses so little at a 50/50 mix, ever year seems like a good interval. I will avoid the Dex-cool type coolants for two reasons: Some of my customers have talked about problems with some batches; My experience has been extensive with the old, green ethylene-glycol and so no reason to tempt things by changing. The problem with old coolant is that the ethylene-glycol is corrosive and so buffers are added to control this. It is the buffer package which ".wears out". Additives are available to replenish the buffers but the coolant capacity of the KLR is so tiny that it is simply not practical to do so IMO. An organic chemist told me that ethylene-glycol is very similar to a big sugar molecule. He claimed that this is why the taste buds perceive it as sweet and also claimed that the sewage treatment plant bugs would eat the glycol unless large quantities were introduced. While I find this to be interesting trivia, I do not dump coolant into the local sewage system simply because I do not want to have the poop police after me. If the guy is wrong, I don't want to be responsible. A local collection point accepts oil, old antifreeze, etc. HIH Norm Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Yahoo! Groups Links __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Chaz Cooper - Hotmail]

It's my understanding that the reason the buffers "wear out" is that every time the piston compresses the O2 fuel mixture and fires, a small amount of Nitric and Sulfuric oxides seep past the cylinder head gasket into the cooling system. The oxides combine with the H2O and form dioxides - Nitric and Sulfuric dioxides - or Nitric and Sulfuric acid. The "buffers" are base compounds which neutralize the acids - till they're "worn out". The "buffers" longevity is directly related to the quality of the seal of the head gasket (it's never perfect), and the number of times the compression/firing stroke occurs. Buffers don't wear out if the bike engine is never run. I'm no chemist, but I put a hypo 327 V8 in a '66 Corvair. Very quick! Very fast! Handled like nothing else I've ever driven. For engine cooling I tried several different approaches before I settled on runing coolant from the engine - in what was the back seat - to the four row Caddy radiator where the radiator is traditionally placed in the front. Unfortunately, I used exhaust tubing to run the coolant between the engine and radiator. I learned a whole lot about the Galvanic process and as a side lesson about the whole corrosive process. The result was that both the tubing and the radiator didn't last very long. Could have been all those compression strokes though. There were sure a bunch in a short amount of time.... Chuck

----- Original Message ----- From: Walter Mitty To: April Neave & Norm Keller ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Coolant Have y'all noticed that all the coolants on the market seem to have gone to the Dexcool formulation even though they may not have changed color. Even the traditional Prestone green stuff is now marketed as an extended life anti-freeze that is compatible with all other colors of anti-freeze. When you look at the labels this "new" green stuff has the same ingredients as the Dexcool stuff. April Neave & Norm Keller wrote: Most cage manufacturers used to recommend changing coolant every three years. On the KLR I dumped mine after the first year (no way of knowing how old the factory batch was). Since it uses so little at a 50/50 mix, ever year seems like a good interval. I will avoid the Dex-cool type coolants for two reasons: Some of my customers have talked about problems with some batches; My experience has been extensive with the old, green ethylene-glycol and so no reason to tempt things by changing. The problem with old coolant is that the ethylene-glycol is corrosive and so buffers are added to control this. It is the buffer package which ".wears out". Additives are available to replenish the buffers but the coolant capacity of the KLR is so tiny that it is simply not practical to do so IMO. An organic chemist told me that ethylene-glycol is very similar to a big sugar molecule. He claimed that this is why the taste buds perceive it as sweet and also claimed that the sewage treatment plant bugs would eat the glycol unless large quantities were introduced. While I find this to be interesting trivia, I do not dump coolant into the local sewage system simply because I do not want to have the poop police after me. If the guy is wrong, I don't want to be responsible. A local collection point accepts oil, old antifreeze, etc. HIH Norm Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Yahoo! Groups Links __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[ravensval]

What is the list wisdom on when to change coolant and fork oil... Clymer says change coolant every two years, and fork oil at 18,000 miles. Seems like I've heard people talk about changing coolant every year? My A19 is a year old this month and has 7,500 miles. Thanks -- Valerie

[topmap1]

This is my second try at posting this. The problem with the existing thermostat is that there is a small weep hole in the thermostat to move coolant over the temperature switch. So the coolant temperature stratifies in the head (top hotter them the bottom) when the coolant hits 160 degrees the thermostat opens and a large flow for cold coolant moves into the engine cooling it off and shuts down the thermostat and the cycle starts over. In the mean time all of the hot coolant is sitting in the radiator and is cooling down. In the cold months the engine can't reach steady state it just bounces hot cold. With a bypass there is continues coolant flow through the engine so the temperature uniformly increases (coolant bypasses the radiator so there is no cooling of the fluid). When the temperature reaches 195 degrees the thermostat starts opening allowing some of the coolant in the radiator to mix with the coolant in the engine. If the outside temperature is cold and the mixed coolant temperature drops below 195 the thermostat will close and run through the bypass. This way the engine sees very little temperature variation. Martin Albuquerque, NM

[Rick McCauley]

I know the anti freeze should be for aluminum blocks, but is there any other restrictions for what anti-freeze I change to. Can I use car anti-freeze like Prestone, or should it be motorcycle specific type? Rick A17 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]