spud gun camoflauged as a tool tube, where to mount it though?

[Mike]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "boulder_adv_rider" wrote:

> > Bill - Thanks. > > I'd like to hear response(s) to Ed's question. I assumed the 5PM > location was adequate--servicing the adjuster's entire range of > motion with plenty of tension. Why go tighter?? > > Also, I'm curious about the grinding of the clutch gear surface in > two places in the (John Biccum) photos. Again, I didn't see this > procedure in the install instructions. Is it necessary? And why not > all four spans? Jeff Saline and I discussed this a bit ago when I > raised (resurfaced?) the issue after my first torsion spring > install. I didn't have a clearance issue at the time, but worry > (somehow) this clearance closes (spring moves) and the gear strikes > it. Jeff Saline discussed a groove technique he uses to prevent > movement which makes sense. Obviously, the person grinding this gear > knows something or has concern as well. Knee jerk? Preemptive? > Maybe. All I can say is...in a case-match, starter gear vs. spring > arm, I'm betting on the gear. And we're all passionately aware of a > tension-less adjuster dooing naughty things... > > Brian > > > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Bill Watson wrote: > > > > This has been an interesting thread. Brian, my guess here is that > > "all" the damage was caused when the engine was run with a broken > doo > > and it beat the rubber up. I think that's where I was headed. > You've > > done a good job of actually measuring things as you think it all > > through, which is to be commended as most don't spend the time or > think > > about how things work or why things are done a certain way. So - > bravo! > > > > I typically set up torsion spring > > bikes with an additional 45 degrees of preload by drilling the case > > hole at "6:45" rather than "5:15". (The other side of the lug). > > George, thanks for sending your data as well about your results with > > the most preload of all! I do remember that early > > mod and it's good to get another piece of data to say that higher > > tension doesn't seem to have a downside. > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Brain, I did about 20 or so torsion spring upgrades myself before I ran into one where the spokes touched the spring. I guess I was just lucky. I've noticed that some of the starter gears run out more than others. So - I'd been thinking about how to prevent this. Several options, none quick and easy as I wanted. A guy in Oklahoma, Tom IIRC, came up with the groove idea. It works perfectly, keeps the spring in place without any agony. I've done about 15 or 20 since this and never had a spoke hit. I push he outer coil back and it rests in the groove. The spring in Bill's bike is a prototype and does not have the anchor hole in the case. I did mention that I would be updating the install instructions in the next few days. I will also be machining a groove in all the levers as soon as the new cutter gets here. There isn't a spec for the spring tension anywhere from kawasaki. all the best, Mike

[Mike]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "boulder_adv_rider" wrote:

> > Mike - Based upon observation/experience you guys all seem to agree > any increase in spring tension from any of the readily-available > helical springs or new torsion spring does not increase risk of > excessive wear on the rubber-integrated sprockets (my focus). I'm > not going into bearing matters or extend my research to effects on > the entire balancer system. My chain appears fine and bearings, > too. The real failure point for me was complete loss of slack > adjustability/mitigation because the sprocket dampening material wore- > out. > > I'm no guru and I'm limited to data from my observation(s). It's why > I started this thread--to share my experience/obs and engage those > with more experience. From all this, Watt-man and I seem to agree > the dampening material most likely got damaged by slack at SOME point > which is consistent with your mantra of keeping the system properly > adjusted. I'd like to add the integrity of these rubber-integrated > sprockets is critical to maintaining a properly tensioned balancer > system. This rubber is not just for noise reduction. As in my case, > if it's severely damaged or otherwise removed, this results in 100% > loss of slack mitigation capacity. In other words, the doo and > spring mean nothing if these sprockets are severely damaged or worn- > out. And once these wear-out, the chain will be grinding constantly > into the bottom of the case, and it's my opinion you're at greater > risk to damaging other balancer components like bearings, chain and > ultimately your entire engine. So keep an eye on these sprockets and > the amount of adjustability that remains. Don't just slap on a > spring that yields poor tension and longevity...especially if you > have little adjustability remaining. Inspect the entire balancer > system whenever you're in the hood. > > If we agree the added tension is no worry, the torsion spring appears > to be the better alternative to maintaining tension throughout the > doo's RoM. I haven't tested the torsion spring's longevity (read: > survivability), but others are saying/experiencing it's bombproof (no > issues). I'll rely on these assertions and give it some testing > myself. One thing I'm going to do is increase the frequency of my > doo adjustments to every oil change (2,000 miles). At some point, > we'll open it up again and see how we did. > > Lastly, I appreciate everyone's contributions. Hopefully, this > engages listas to become more familiar with their KLR (balancer > ecosystem in particular) and helps people decide how best to maintain > it. It's quite a privilege to have such a forum and vast group of > experienced technicians, riders...and philosophers. Of course, my > hat comes off to people like (you) Mike, Bill, and others who aspire > constantly to build a better KLR for everyone. > > Best - Brian >

Brain, Based on my experience I agree the damage was done during the period of excess chain slack when damaged parts were in place. You're doing a great job of explaining what you are doing and testing. The torsion spring was designed to be "bombproof" and I think the groove to retain the outer coil solves the last potential issue. People have run (by comparison) huge spring preload on the system with no damage reported. all the best, Mike

[revmaaatin]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" wrote:

>

snip

> > Watt-man isn't all that easy on the chain. I've personally seen him > wheelie the bike a few times. He does ride very smoothly during

commuting.

>

snip

> all the best, > Mike

Mike, Wheelie? You are kidding right? I never seen it done so I KNOW it is all a fable. I actually understand all this hocus pocus discussion about chain tension, wear, etc, but when you talk about KLR's wheelie-ing, I draw the line. A man has got to have some respect left. The next thing you know, you will be telling us you have a kit for inverted forks that just 'drop in'. Sheesh. What else will you left coast guys try to sell next?!?!?!? revmaaatin--dreaming about inverted KLR forks...(Mother Kawi could have cured that in 08 with KLX300 forks. sigh.

[roncriswell@sbcglobal.net]

Er Rev, they can be wheelied with practice, timing and the planets have to be alined but not particularly easily. I have had mine way high before with reving and clutch magic. And sometimes I pull off a pretty nice one. Even better with a small hump in the road. Criswell

On Sep 30, 2008, at 11:02 PM, revmaaatin wrote: > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" wrote: > > > snip > > > > Watt-man isn't all that easy on the chain. I've personally seen him > > wheelie the bike a few times. He does ride very smoothly during > commuting. > > > snip > > > all the best, > > Mike > > Mike, > Wheelie? You are kidding right? I never seen it done so I KNOW it is > all a fable. > > I actually understand all this hocus pocus discussion about chain > tension, wear, etc, but when you talk about KLR's wheelie-ing, I draw > the line. A man has got to have some respect left. The next thing > you know, you will be telling us you have a kit for inverted forks > that just 'drop in'. > > Sheesh. What else will you left coast guys try to sell next?!?!?!? > > revmaaatin--dreaming about inverted KLR forks...(Mother Kawi could > have cured that in 08 with KLX300 forks. sigh. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Michael Nelson]

On Wed, Oct 01, 2008 at 07:42:04AM -0500, roncriswell@... wrote:

> Er Rev, they can be wheelied with practice, timing and the planets > have to be alined but not particularly easily. I have had mine way > high before with reving and clutch magic. And sometimes I pull off a > pretty nice one. Even better with a small hump in the road.

Humping in the road can get you killed. -- "Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open manhole and die." -- Mel Brooks San Francisco, CA

[Bill Watson]

Bill, Thanks for your input on this subject. Is the extra preload you are talking about as depicted in the following link? http://johnbiccum. smugmug.com/ gallery/2938841_ wJjyu#158603165_ vYwCq Assuming the aftermarket torsion spring installed per the vendor's instructions duplicates the idler shaft torque of a new KLR650 of a particular model year, if I may ask, what was your specific technical rationale for increasing the torsion spring preload 50% (ref. msg. 186365)? TIA ED -------------- Yes Ed, nice work there - exactly the photos. Some are my photos, some are Saline's, and I added the words and graphics. As for why I exceeded the mfg's recommendation, I was willing to take the risk. It seemed to me that no load in the system is the worst end solution - I hadn't heard of high-tensioned systems having problems such as the original Pete Chester "flip it and yank big time" method that George evans has also had good luck with. The mfg's recommendation, on the bike I was installing the torsion spring on generated about 70 degrees of preload in the system. So after 35 degrees of rotation (wear), you'll be to half load, and when it's moved 70 degrees there is no tension. I've preloaded at the other hole on a number of bikes which leads to 115 degrees of preload, if you will. This is a higher initial preload, but the idea was that I'm (we're) too lazy to go in later and add preload as the system wears, and it seemed that this way the system will have sufficient preload in it for the life of the bike. Without an attachment, it's essentially that I made a plot beforehand of "torque vs. deflection" for the stock system, a torsion spring at 70 degrees and one at 115 and went for 115. Further - as Mike points out, I have a pre-production torsion spring which had a different starting end on it. It looks like I set it up originally with 115 degrees of preload on my particular bike and have had no problems, so I do the same to other bikes. I'm sure that bike-to-bike variation might allow you to use the "5:15" hole and still get more pre-twist on the torsion spring than other bikes. My rule of thumb is "pick the hole which gives you 90 degrees or more". [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Bill Watson]

Brian wrote: Also, I'm curious about the grinding of the clutch gear surface in two places in the (John Biccum) photos. Again, I didn't see this procedure in the install instructions. Is it necessary? And why not all four spans? Obviously, the person grinding this gear knows something or has concern as well. Knee jerk? Preemptive? Maybe. ------------------ Hey Brian, Yeah, that's my gear on my bike. Why not all four spans? Because the runout on the starter gear webs has a large tolerance from KHI and on stock bikes is a total-non-issue. But with the torsion spring there is a chance of rub. So I checked mine and two of four webs rubbed. I did a friend's bike and he had one of four. Jeff Saline had two I believe. Even on earlier stuff like mine, if the web hits it just pushes the spring over. Will it contact enough over the life of the bike, only when starting enough to damage the spring? My guess was no. But Mike's upcoming notch in the doo solves this for sure. "Obviously, the person grinding this gear knows something or has concern as well." Ahhh, you give me too much credit. It was just the fact that I had one of the earliest torsion springs and there was just no info out there. After installation, I was pulling a Brian and actually checking stuff rather than throwing it together, and noted that two ribs were hanging up slightly on the spring. If I had spent more time I would have noticed that a small cut on each rib would solve it, but knowing that this gear only rotates with starter engagement at very low speed, I just grabbed a body grinder and pulled material off. Clearly way too much to solve the problem! My bad! Bill Watson www.xanga.com/watt_man [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Skypilot]

Hmmmmm, If I mount a spud gun on the klr I could just say its a tool tube by putting a cap on the end of the barrel. But where to mount it? Me "No officer, that is not a handlebar mounted munitions system, it is just my tool tube" Officer "then why does it have a gun sight and igniter?" Me " Ummmmmm" If this little French scooter could do it why not a klr http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2006/12/mystery-photo-one-seriously-empowere d.html Posted by: "Jud Jones" judjonzz@... http://profiles.yahoo.com/judjonzz> judjonzz

>I would not pay 25 bucks for something I can make with left-over spud gun

parts. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]