nklr jetman...not to be confused with klrman

[grbhfng]

> Many people in the US still believe in the "sneak attack on Pearl Harbor" <

Unless you've changed definitions, to pretend to be peacefully negotiating, while sending your battle fleet to attack the other party without a formal declaration of war is a sneak attack. Guess you believe that we A-Bombed Japan just because they were Asian and not white, right ?

--- On Mon, 9/1/08, Reverend wrote: From: Reverend Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: More BAD news from Mexico NKLR To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, September 1, 2008, 11:02 PM > -----Original Message----- > Behalf Of ilv2wheels > The favorite "demon" of the left, the Nazis, were socialists > (progressives were the American version) and began with universal > healthcare, guaranteed pensions, security, gun registration, and > banning of open religious displays, trumpeted as change and > a "third" way. Except the gun registration, none of that sounds bad. > and religious figures (beaten and worse) That's a good start. > a eugenics program (to breed out the "bread sponges" and criminals). Sweden didn't stop their eugenics program until '69 if I remember correctly. It's an interesting world we live in. There's no one simple thing to point to and say "that's what ails us", but I would say education is a very big factor. Many people in the US still believe in the "sneak attack on Pearl Harbor" and will happily believe whatever they're told on the 5pm news (the wonders of E85 anyone?). Another small fact is the inverse relation between an educated and thriving society and one where religion is widespread. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Reverend]

Without going into a long history lesson here; War is good for the economy, but we were promised to not enter the war. That was a problem - "how do we jump into a war we told our people we weren't going to enter?" Enter Arthur McCollum and his ingenious memo on how to poke someone enough to make them attack us. Suddenly it's "hey, they attacked US, now we HAVE to kick their asses and the asses of all their friends" and suddenly the economy (and war machine) is booming, the people united, the patriotic chants echo nationally. The gambit here is to sway public opinion away from "uh, we don't want/need to kill people" to "screw that, let's show'em what we've got". Propaganda is done in many ways, but it's always done *because it works*. The common man isn't well-read enough, doesn't care enough and is more than willing to raise the flag and wave his stick around after having been told what to think. We see that time and time again, even today, in governments the world over.

> -----Original Message----- > Behalf Of grbhfng > > > > Many people in the US still believe in the "sneak attack on Pearl > Harbor" > Unless you've changed definitions, to pretend to be peacefully > negotiating, while > sending your battle fleet to attack the other party without a formal > declaration of war is a sneak attack. > > Guess you believe that we A-Bombed Japan just because they were Asian > and not white, right ?

[grbhfng]

So... What your trying to tell me is that we fought WW II because we provoked the Japanese Empire and their friends into attacking us at Pearl Harbor, right ? Sorry, but I don't buy the propaganda that your trying to sell. I believe that you subscribe to the Violence Never Solves Anything school of thought. So how do you feel about all the violence done by Christians throught history in the name of religion, the poor misguided souls provoked the Christians into attacking them, right.

--- On Tue, 9/2/08, Reverend wrote: From: Reverend Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: More BAD news from Mexico NKLR To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 5:38 PM Without going into a long history lesson here; War is good for the economy, but we were promised to not enter the war. That was a problem - "how do we jump into a war we told our people we weren't going to enter?" Enter Arthur McCollum and his ingenious memo on how to poke someone enough to make them attack us. Suddenly it's "hey, they attacked US, now we HAVE to kick their asses and the asses of all their friends" and suddenly the economy (and war machine) is booming, the people united, the patriotic chants echo nationally. The gambit here is to sway public opinion away from "uh, we don't want/need to kill people" to "screw that, let's show'em what we've got". Propaganda is done in many ways, but it's always done *because it works*. The common man isn't well-read enough, doesn't care enough and is more than willing to raise the flag and wave his stick around after having been told what to think. We see that time and time again, even today, in governments the world over. > -----Original Message----- > Behalf Of grbhfng > > > > Many people in the US still believe in the "sneak attack on Pearl > Harbor" > Unless you've changed definitions, to pretend to be peacefully > negotiating, while > sending your battle fleet to attack the other party without a formal > declaration of war is a sneak attack. > > Guess you believe that we A-Bombed Japan just because they were Asian > and not white, right ? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Tengai Mark Van Horn]

At 7:20 PM -0700 9/2/08, grbhfng wrote:

>So... > >What your trying to tell me is that we fought WW >II because we provoked the Japanese Empire and >their friends into attacking us at Pearl Harbor, >right ? > >Sorry, but I don't buy the propaganda that your trying to sell. > >I believe that you subscribe to the Violence >Never Solves Anything school of thought.

War Is A Racket 1935 by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC, Two-time Congressional Medal of Honor recipient. http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm> The following is an excerpt from a speech he gave in 1933: War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses. I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag. I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket. There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism. It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism."

[jokerloco9@aol.com]

So what you are saying (and this General), is don't do anything until the troops are massed at the border, and fight the war on your own soil. I'm sure glad your only forum is a silly info site about a motorcycle. Because very few people in the real world would take you seriously. Sure, there are many people that will profit from war. I'm sure Germany and Japan sure profited. Or France, or Poland, or Russia, or Britain. Wow, I missed a great investment opportunity. Jeff A20 -Happily riding bike while reaching new heights of amazement as to how stupid people can be. In a message dated 9/2/2008 9:03:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tengai650@... writes: At 7:20 PM -0700 9/2/08, grbhfng wrote:

>So... > >What your trying to tell me is that we fought WW >II because we provoked the Japanese Empire and >their friends into attacking us at Pearl Harbor, >right ? > >Sorry, but I don't buy the propaganda that your trying to sell. > >I believe that you subscribe to the Violence >Never Solves Anything school of thought.

War Is A Racket 1935 by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC, Two-time Congressional Medal of Honor recipient. http://www.lexrex.http://www.lexrehttp://wwhttp://www.lehtt_ (http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm) > The following is an excerpt from a speech he gave in 1933: War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses. I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag. I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket. There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-NationalisticSuper-Nation It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism." **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[grbhfng]

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity, especially in large groups. Don't know how said it, but true, so true. BTY, anybody knows that Uncle Sams Misguided Children have funny ideas, but damn good men to have on your side in a fight.

--- On Tue, 9/2/08, jokerloco9@... wrote: From: jokerloco9@... Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: More BAD news from Mexico NKLR To: tengai650@..., DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 11:31 PM So what you are saying (and this General), is don't do anything until the troops are massed at the border, and fight the war on your own soil. I'm sure glad your only forum is a silly info site about a motorcycle. Because very few people in the real world would take you seriously. Sure, there are many people that will profit from war. I'm sure Germany and Japan sure profited. Or France, or Poland, or Russia, or Britain. Wow, I missed a great investment opportunity. Jeff A20 -Happily riding bike while reaching new heights of amazement as to how stupid people can be. In a message dated 9/2/2008 9:03:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tengai650@reelrider .com writes: At 7:20 PM -0700 9/2/08, grbhfng wrote: >So... > >What your trying to tell me is that we fought WW >II because we provoked the Japanese Empire and >their friends into attacking us at Pearl Harbor, >right ? > >Sorry, but I don't buy the propaganda that your trying to sell. > >I believe that you subscribe to the Violence >Never Solves Anything school of thought. War Is A Racket 1935 by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC, Two-time Congressional Medal of Honor recipient. www.lexrex. http://www. lexrehttp: //wwhttp: //www.lehtt_ (http://www.lexrex. com/enlightened/ articles/ warisaracket. htm) > The following is an excerpt from a speech he gave in 1933: War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses. I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag. I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket. There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic Super-Nation It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism." ************ **It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information. travel.aol. com/deals? ncid=aoltrv00050 000000047) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[grbhfng]

So... An old Banana Republic/China Marine makes a speech in 1933, and you want to use that to defend some BS about the US provoking the Japanese into attacking Pearl Harbor ? Glad you Peace At Any Cost types weren't allowed to run things during the fight against Germany and Japan, because you would be speaking Japanese if you live west of the Mississippi, and German in the east. Personally like the Marine General who gave the speech about... "...be polite, be helpful, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet..."

--- On Tue, 9/2/08, Tengai Mark Van Horn wrote: From: Tengai Mark Van Horn Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: More BAD news from Mexico NKLR To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 11:03 PM At 7:20 PM -0700 9/2/08, grbhfng wrote: >So... > >What your trying to tell me is that we fought WW >II because we provoked the Japanese Empire and >their friends into attacking us at Pearl Harbor, >right ? > >Sorry, but I don't buy the propaganda that your trying to sell. > >I believe that you subscribe to the Violence >Never Solves Anything school of thought. War Is A Racket 1935 by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC, Two-time Congressional Medal of Honor recipient. http://www.lexrex com/enlightened/ articles/ warisaracket. htm> The following is an excerpt from a speech he gave in 1933: War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses. I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag. I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket. There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic -Capitalism. It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism." [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[grbhfng]

So... An old Banana Republic/China Marine makes a speech in 1933, and you want to use that to defend some BS about the US provoking the Japanese into attacking Pearl Harbor ? Glad you Peace At Any Cost types weren't allowed to run things during the fight against Germany and Japan, because you would be speaking Japanese if you live west of the Mississippi, and German in the east. Personally like the Marine General who gave the speech about... "...be polite, be helpful, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet..."

--- On Tue, 9/2/08, Tengai Mark Van Horn wrote: From: Tengai Mark Van Horn Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: More BAD news from Mexico NKLR To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 11:03 PM At 7:20 PM -0700 9/2/08, grbhfng wrote: >So... > >What your trying to tell me is that we fought WW >II because we provoked the Japanese Empire and >their friends into attacking us at Pearl Harbor, >right ? > >Sorry, but I don't buy the propaganda that your trying to sell. > >I believe that you subscribe to the Violence >Never Solves Anything school of thought. War Is A Racket 1935 by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC, Two-time Congressional Medal of Honor recipient. http://www.lexrex com/enlightened/ articles/ warisaracket. htm> The following is an excerpt from a speech he gave in 1933: War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses. I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag. I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket. There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic -Capitalism. It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism." [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[jokerloco9@aol.com]

I kind of noticed that the passage written by this General was, what, 1933? Isn't that before the lessons learned from WW2? Where pretty much most of Europe sat on their asses and did nothing but watch Hitler come to power? And what did "doing nothing until the enemy is at the border do for Poland? France? etc, etc. Utterly Clueless. At least the 1933 General has an excuse, based on knowledge he had at the time. Jeff A20 In a message dated 9/2/2008 9:53:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, grbhfng@... writes: Never underestimate the power of human stupidity, especially in large groups. Don't know how said it, but true, so true. BTY, anybody knows that Uncle Sams Misguided Children have funny ideas, but damn good men to have on your side in a fight. --- On Tue, 9/2/08, _jokerloco9@..._ (mailto:jokerloco9@...) wrote: From: _jokerloco9@..._ (mailto:jokerloco9@...) Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: More BAD news from Mexico NKLR To: _tengai650@reelriderteng_ (mailto:tengai650@...) , _DSN_KLR650@yahoogroDSN_KLR_ (mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com) Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 11:31 PM So what you are saying (and this General), is don't do anything until the troops are massed at the border, and fight the war on your own soil. I'm sure glad your only forum is a silly info site about a motorcycle. Because very few people in the real world would take you seriously. Sure, there are many people that will profit from war. I'm sure Germany and Japan sure profited. Or France, or Poland, or Russia, or Britain. Wow, I missed a great investment opportunity. Jeff A20 -Happily riding bike while reaching new heights of amazement as to how stupid people can be. In a message dated 9/2/2008 9:03:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tengai650@reelrider .com writes: At 7:20 PM -0700 9/2/08, grbhfng wrote:

>So... > >What your trying to tell me is that we fought WW >II because we provoked the Japanese Empire and >their friends into attacking us at Pearl Harbor, >right ? > >Sorry, but I don't buy the propaganda that your trying to sell. > >I believe that you subscribe to the Violence >Never Solves Anything school of thought.

War Is A Racket 1935 by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC, Two-time Congressional Medal of Honor recipient. www.lexrex._ (http://www.lexrex./) _http://www._ (http://www./) lexrehttp: //wwhttp: //www.lehtt_ (_http://www.lexrex._ (http://www.lexrex./) com/enlightened/ articles/ warisaracket. htm) > The following is an excerpt from a speech he gave in 1933: War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses. I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag. I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket. There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic Super-Nation It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism." ************ **It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (_http://information._ (http://information./) travel.aol. com/deals? ncid=aoltrv00050 000000047) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals ... 0000000047) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Reverend]

> -----Original Message----- > Behalf Of grbhfng > > What your trying to tell me is that we fought WW II because we provoked > the Japanese Empire and their friends into attacking us at Pearl > Harbor, right ?

Not me. History. I didn't write history.

> Sorry, but I don't buy the propaganda that your trying to sell.

I'm not trying to sell anything. I merely wish people would show more of an interest in education and history.

> I believe that you subscribe to the Violence Never Solves Anything > school of thought.

Not in the least. Look to the Middle East troubles. I am a firm believer that the only solution is a 7 day warning and then rototilling the entire area into something that perhaps could do some good for humanity. Rice paddies perhaps? Salt mines? While I think it's a little overkill, I think those who suggest turning the area to glass could pin their hopes on Iran, who expresses that sentiment too. I can't say the idea is entirely without merit.

> So how do you feel about all the violence done by Christians throught > history in the name of religion, the poor misguided souls provoked the > Christians into attacking them, right.

I don't quite see the correlation between a nation at war and (originally) Pagan ideologies. However, Christianity started as a branch of Judaism, which started as an offshoot of Paganism (which has been around ever since humans started walking the planet). What we've seen for the last 2000 years is how the "Big Three" religions (the Abrahamic ones) have perverted Paganism from the benevolent notion it was into a man-made monster existing purely for profit, power and control. The "poor, misguided souls" made the mistake of being peaceful and turning the other cheek, when (this is where I show that I'm not of the "violence never solves anything" kind) they should've struck down and eradicated any crazy idea harmful to the society. Though they might not have quite grasped the severity of dangerous ideas at the time, they learned too late.