san diego tech day

[Ed Dobson]

Since I was relying on memory regarding SAE 961217 (1996), having read this copyrighted paper online a few years ago, and no longer viewable, I purchased a copy and read it. To the best of my understanding, regarding engine oil viscosity and gear durability only, the paper states (paraphrased so as not to violate copyright): --- engine oil viscosity has a significant effect on the durability of motorcycle transmission gears --- 3 of 4 manufacturers (A-D in the paper) used 10w-30, API SE engine oil for engine development; the other, 10W-40, API SD-SE --- 2 of 4 manufacturers genuine or recommended lubricants, are 10W-40, API SE-SG; the other two, 10W-30, API SE --- gear pitting has been observed by manufacturers in testing of engines using oils with a viscosity *lower* than 10W-30 --- the four manufacturers observed no gear pitting for 20W-40 and 10W-30~40 engine oil viscosity grades; moderate (2 mfr's) and definite (2 mfr's) gear pitting was observed with 7.5W-30 oil --- 5W-XX engine oil should not be used --- 10W-XX engine oil use should continue Many questions remain. The paper is 12 years old also. A lot has changed, or maybe not. Does the KLR650 engine need its oil changed oil at or before it drops below dash 40 viscosity range(?-miles)or can the engine oil be run longer into the dash 30 viscosity range(?-miles)? ED http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/961217

[Andrus Chesley]

Was reading an interesting thing in Thumper News yesterday. A guy with an F650 Beemer with 171,000 miles and it's not using any oil. Oil change ever 6000. Forgot what he was using. Same dude talked about his MZ using the 660 yama engine using about 1/2 quart at 70,somewhat thousand miles. then there was Jack with his 122,000 mile '00 KLR using mobile 1 and doing 26 oil and filter changes during this time. More people should join FSSNOC as there is good input at times from older dudes that ride nothing but singles all over the country. Can pik up lots of savy from them at times, then other times take them with a grain of salt. . Just like me. ha ha ha ha . Go figure. I think the best thing to do is change the old ever so often and go ride and not worry about all that stuff. I change mine every 6 months or 3000 with filter. Most of the times it's a time change being as it's my other bike and not the main one I ride lots on trips. Andy in Louisiana

[Ed Dobson]

Blake, I was wondering if you think this is the "straight scoop". ED

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Dobson" wrote: > > Since I was relying on memory regarding SAE 961217 (1996), having read > this copyrighted paper online a few years ago, and no longer viewable, > I purchased a copy and read it. To the best of my understanding, > regarding engine oil viscosity and gear durability only, the paper > states (paraphrased so as not to violate copyright): > > --- engine oil viscosity has a significant effect on the durability > of motorcycle transmission gears > > --- 3 of 4 manufacturers (A-D in the paper) used 10w-30, API SE engine > oil for engine development; the other, 10W-40, API SD-SE > > --- 2 of 4 manufacturers genuine or recommended lubricants, are > 10W-40, API SE-SG; the other two, 10W-30, API SE > > --- gear pitting has been observed by manufacturers in testing of > engines using oils with a viscosity *lower* than 10W-30 > > --- the four manufacturers observed no gear pitting for 20W-40 and > 10W-30~40 engine oil viscosity grades; moderate (2 mfr's) > and definite (2 mfr's) gear pitting was observed with 7.5W-30 oil > > --- 5W-XX engine oil should not be used > > --- 10W-XX engine oil use should continue > > Many questions remain. The paper is 12 years old also. A lot has > changed, or maybe not. > > Does the KLR650 engine need its oil changed oil at or before it drops > below dash 40 viscosity range(?-miles)or can the engine oil be run > longer into the dash 30 viscosity range(?-miles)? > > ED > > http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/961217 >

[Ed Dobson]

What the KLR650 engine "needs" is an engine oil viscosity sensor or an engine oil condition sensor! But would we trust them? ED

[Ed Dobson]

FWIW The 2008 KLR650 has an improved crankcase ventilation system, which may be why K increased the OCI, not that owner's agree with it. The 2008 model, I think, has a positive crankcase ventilation system which admits fresh air into the crankcase whereas the earlier models have, I think, have a simple draft(?) type crankcase ventilation system. I think positive systems keep the oil cleaner than the draft(?) systems. ED

[Mike]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Dobson" wrote:

> > FWIW > > The 2008 KLR650 has an improved crankcase ventilation system, which > may be why K increased the OCI, not that owner's agree with it. The > 2008 model, I think, has a positive crankcase ventilation system which > admits fresh air into the crankcase whereas the earlier models have, I > think, have a simple draft(?) type crankcase ventilation system. I > think positive systems keep the oil cleaner than the draft(?) systems. > > ED >

Ed, Are you sure?? I know about the exhaust air injection system. I have an 2008, and sure haven't seen anything about injecting air into the crankcase.....who knows, maybe I missed it.... all the best, Mike

[Ed Dobson]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" wrote:

> > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Dobson" wrote: > > > > FWIW > > > > The 2008 KLR650 has an improved crankcase ventilation system, which > > may be why K increased the OCI, not that owner's agree with it. The > > 2008 model, I think, has a positive crankcase ventilation system which > > admits fresh air into the crankcase whereas the earlier models have, I > > think, have a simple draft(?) type crankcase ventilation system. I > > think positive systems keep the oil cleaner than the draft(?) systems. > > > > ED > > > Ed, > > Are you sure?? I know about the exhaust air injection system. I have > an 2008, and sure haven't seen anything about injecting air into the > crankcase.....who knows, maybe I missed it.... > > all the best, > > Mike >

Sorry. Brain fart or another life. My bad. You're absolutely right. [I "think" some of the other Kowz do what I said above but don't quote me.] Annoying ED

[revmaaatin]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Blake Sobiloff wrote:

> > On Feb 3, 2008, at 5:06 AM, Ed Dobson wrote:

Massive snippage Imagine my surprise when I (and others) found out how

> hard the KLR is on its oil. > > So, if I'm not persuasive then please feel free to pick your own

OCIs--

> I'm not trying to bully anyone into anything, but merely offering

my

> advice when solicited. > -- > Blake Sobiloff > http://www.sobiloff.com/> > San Jose, CA (USA) >

Ed, Here-in lies the difficulty of buying a used bike (I did--new to me, at 2,500 miles--the third owner), is knowing that it was taken care of in the beginning. Taken care of by the standards, well established by experience gleaned from list wisdom and careful analysis beyond KHI book of suggestions (=owners handbook; i.e. the chain tension and alignment procedure, sorely lacking for exacting results; and yes, I follow their torque values). I for one trust the experience and analysis of Blake and the men/women at (sic) Caterpillar Oil Analysis over the vague suggestions of mother KHI. It's your bike. Judging by the 24 bikes for sale right now on EBAY, I would say that most people wouldn't keep their KLR beyond your personal OCI of 6000 miles. shrug. In the short term, that OCI won't matter. I, and others believe in the long term, it does matter. For those on a limited income, (and unlimited cyber space yak-ing), my personal goal for MCI (motorcycle change interval) is 60,000 miles, not 6,000. shrug again. If later, you should offer your 'well maintained-by OEM standards' motorcycle for sale, offer the buyer the courtesy of knowing that the oil (OCI) was changed at 6,000 miles and not 1,0000 or 1,500, so that if that person is me, cough, I can politely decline the purchase. revmaaatin.

[revmaaatin]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Charlie Y" wrote:

> > I am (ashamed to mention it here) located about 5 miles from > Foxboro Stadium.

Charlie, OK I'll bite; Is that in America? . I thought about riding her down the bulkhead

> steps > into the basement, but I might never get out again. Anyone ever

tried it?

>

Sure, Riding down is the easy part, only slightly more dicey riding up, cough, and only infinitly worse if if falls on you while you are doing this by yourself. A friend rode a FJR or is is FRJ1000 into the basment, but had to build a ramp with cross bars on it (like for cattle traction in a loading chute) to get it out. shrug. He said, "once was enough" to cure him. revmaaatin. who is sitting in the Sioux Empire