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E.L. Green
Posts: 639
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:36 am

nklr metaphysics, the future, oil, and energy

Post by E.L. Green » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:13 pm

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Russell Scott" wrote:
> > I don't know anything about the Heartland Institute. All I know is all > these genius scientists who can tells what happened fifty million years ago, > don't ever tell us a thing about the greatest climate event in recent > history, that happened 4000 years ago, the worldwide flood. And many of
??? I hope this is a joke. Science has nothing to say about a worldwide flood 4,000 years ago because there is no evidence of such a flood other than a single description in a religious text, and descriptions in religious texts don't count as scientific evidence because they cannot be tested. Science is about things that can be directly observed and tested, not about faith. Geological strata can be observed and their age tested via measurement of radioactive decay products and other such direct observable tests, and conclusions thus made about what happened 50 millions years ago, but thus far there has been no directly observable evidence of a flood 4000 years ago that engulfed the entire earth. Thus it's not science. If you can't see it or feel it, it isn't science, it's... something else.
> them don't want to know, because then its makes their god likes egos
Science is about things that can be observed and tested. I agree that the scientists of my aquaintance have big egos, but that doesn't affect their ability to observe and test. Just as auto mechanics don't make medical decisions regarding heart surgery, scientists don't make theological decisions regarding holy scriptures. Well a few do, but they shouldn't. It's not part of their job description, which is to examine what is observable and testable.
> subjected to a higher authority, who already has the answers to all their > questions about how EVERYTHING works, because He created it all.
Exactly. As a devoted member of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti monster (http://www.venganza.org/), I know why scientists cannot observe evidence of the Great Marinari Flood of 2000BC. It is because His noodly appendage reaches down and tweaks the instruments that scientists use to observe things in order to give inaccurate results, as any Pastafarian knows. That is also why scientists believe the world is billions of years old rather than being created (along with trees, a mountain, and a midgit(sic)) only 16,000 years ago -- His noodly appendage reaches out of the ether and sets itself down on their scale to make it give a false reading. Similarly, with the Great Marinari Flood of 2000BC, His noodly appendages reached down and cleaned up all the evidence, so that's why we can't find any. The Flying Spaghetti Monster loves pulling those kinds of tricks on humans, but His Noodly Nature is not to be questioned by mere mortals, for He is a jealous deity. I thank you for your assistance in helping me spread the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. May the FSM be with you. Ramen! -E

Russell Scott
Posts: 1083
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 6:16 pm

nklr metaphysics, the future, oil, and energy

Post by Russell Scott » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:26 pm

Are you kidding? How much evidence do you want Mr. Green. Let me know, and I will send you enough material to keep you reading for a month. There is so much evidence of Biblical history it would take you years to read it all. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070907150931.htm R -----Original Message----- From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of E.L. Green Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 3:13 PM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR metaphysics, the future, oil, and energy
--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Russell Scott" wrote: > > I don't know anything about the Heartland Institute. All I know is all > these genius scientists who can tells what happened fifty million years ago, > don't ever tell us a thing about the greatest climate event in recent > history, that happened 4000 years ago, the worldwide flood. And many of ??? I hope this is a joke. Science has nothing to say about a worldwide flood 4,000 years ago because there is no evidence of such a flood other than a single description in a religious text, and descriptions in religious texts don't count as scientific evidence because they cannot be tested. Science is about things that can be directly observed and tested, not about faith. Geological strata can be observed and their age tested via measurement of radioactive decay products and other such direct observable tests, and conclusions thus made about what happened 50 millions years ago, but thus far there has been no directly observable evidence of a flood 4000 years ago that engulfed the entire earth. Thus it's not science. If you can't see it or feel it, it isn't science, it's... something else. > them don't want to know, because then its makes their god likes egos Science is about things that can be observed and tested. I agree that the scientists of my aquaintance have big egos, but that doesn't affect their ability to observe and test. Just as auto mechanics don't make medical decisions regarding heart surgery, scientists don't make theological decisions regarding holy scriptures. Well a few do, but they shouldn't. It's not part of their job description, which is to examine what is observable and testable. > subjected to a higher authority, who already has the answers to all their > questions about how EVERYTHING works, because He created it all. Exactly. As a devoted member of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti monster (http://www.venganza.org/), I know why scientists cannot observe evidence of the Great Marinari Flood of 2000BC. It is because His noodly appendage reaches down and tweaks the instruments that scientists use to observe things in order to give inaccurate results, as any Pastafarian knows. That is also why scientists believe the world is billions of years old rather than being created (along with trees, a mountain, and a midgit(sic)) only 16,000 years ago -- His noodly appendage reaches out of the ether and sets itself down on their scale to make it give a false reading. Similarly, with the Great Marinari Flood of 2000BC, His noodly appendages reached down and cleaned up all the evidence, so that's why we can't find any. The Flying Spaghetti Monster loves pulling those kinds of tricks on humans, but His Noodly Nature is not to be questioned by mere mortals, for He is a jealous deity. I thank you for your assistance in helping me spread the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. May the FSM be with you. Ramen! -E [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Michael Nelson
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:55 am

nklr metaphysics, the future, oil, and energy

Post by Michael Nelson » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:44 pm

On Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 11:13:20PM -0000, E.L. Green wrote:
> > I thank you for your assistance in helping me spread the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti > Monster. May the FSM be with you. Ramen!
Thanks for that. I was getting depressed thinking someone would actually post that drivel to a motorcycle list, but you saved the day. This is a church I can join! Michael -- "It's not what I don't understand about religion that bothers me, it's what I do understand." -- Mark Twain San Francisco, CA

E.L. Green
Posts: 639
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:36 am

nklr metaphysics, the future, oil, and energy

Post by E.L. Green » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:55 pm

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Russell Scott" wrote:
> > Are you kidding? How much evidence do you want Mr. Green. Let me know, and > I will send you enough material to keep you reading for a month.
Thank you, but I've already read it. The basic problem is one of the evidence not supporting the conclusions drawn from the evidence, which is a common problem when people do research looking for a specific conclusion. I can generally spot the problems within five minutes of actually looking at the collected data.
> There is so much evidence of Biblical history it would take you years to > read it all. > > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070907150931.htm
Huh? A regional flood 4000 years ago is not a "worldwide" flood, though I suppose to the folks who were subjected to it, it sure seemed like the whole world was flooded. (Shrug). There is no doubt that a variety of events in the scriptures of any religion actually happened in some form or another at some point in time given the vastness of the universe and the infinity of things happening therein (though I'm going to call foul on the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster's assertion that the first human created was a "midgit"). It is clear from the historical record, for example, that there was some dude named Paul who went around the Greek-Roman world setting up Christian churches and writing tons and tons of letters to them about what Christian beliefs were. But what I am stating is that this is irrelevant. If you think you need evidence for your faith, or if you believe that science contradicts your faith and thus must be "corrected", you need prayer, not science, because your problem is that your faith is weak, rather than there being a problem with science. BTW, yes, the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a joke, of sorts -- but it is a joke with a point. The point being that mixing science and religion is like mixing heart surgery and auto repair -- they are two different fields, and the only way to have a "Joe's Auto Repair and Heart Surgery Emporium" is by doing gyrations that are pretty funny when you look at it from an outside perspective (as you must when looking at a religion that is based around a wad of flying spaghetti with two meatball eyes). Science neither validates nor invalidates religion, just as heart surgery neither validates nor invalidates the field of auto repair. Auto mechanics who make proclamations about heart surgery probably shouldn't be doing so, just as people of faith who make proclamations about science (and vice versa) probably shouldn't do so. Science by definition is about things that can be measured. Faith by definition is about things that cannot be measured. Got it?
> -----Original Message----- > From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com]On > Behalf Of E.L. Green > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 3:13 PM > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR metaphysics, the future, oil, and energy > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Russell Scott" wrote: > > > > I don't know anything about the Heartland Institute. All I know is all > > these genius scientists who can tells what happened fifty million years > ago, > > don't ever tell us a thing about the greatest climate event in recent > > history, that happened 4000 years ago, the worldwide flood. And many of > > ??? I hope this is a joke. Science has nothing to say about a worldwide > flood 4,000 years > ago because there is no evidence of such a flood other than a single > description in a > religious text, and descriptions in religious texts don't count as > scientific evidence > because they cannot be tested. Science is about things that can be > directly observed and > tested, not about faith. Geological strata can be observed and their age > tested via > measurement of radioactive decay products and other such direct observable > tests, and > conclusions thus made about what happened 50 millions years ago, but thus > far there has > been no directly observable evidence of a flood 4000 years ago that > engulfed the entire > earth. Thus it's not science. If you can't see it or feel it, it isn't > science, it's... something > else. > > > them don't want to know, because then its makes their god likes egos > > Science is about things that can be observed and tested. I agree that the > scientists of my > aquaintance have big egos, but that doesn't affect their ability to > observe and test. Just as > auto mechanics don't make medical decisions regarding heart surgery, > scientists don't > make theological decisions regarding holy scriptures. Well a few do, but > they shouldn't. It's > not part of their job description, which is to examine what is observable > and testable. > > > subjected to a higher authority, who already has the answers to all > their > > questions about how EVERYTHING works, because He created it all. > > Exactly. As a devoted member of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti monster > (http://www.venganza.org/), I know why scientists cannot observe evidence > of the Great > Marinari Flood of 2000BC. It is because His noodly appendage reaches down > and tweaks > the instruments that scientists use to observe things in order to give > inaccurate results, as > any Pastafarian knows. That is also why scientists believe the world is > billions of years old > rather than being created (along with trees, a mountain, and a > midgit(sic)) only 16,000 > years ago -- His noodly appendage reaches out of the ether and sets itself > down on their > scale to make it give a false reading. Similarly, with the Great Marinari > Flood of 2000BC, > His noodly appendages reached down and cleaned up all the evidence, so > that's why we > can't find any. The Flying Spaghetti Monster loves pulling those kinds of > tricks on humans, > but His Noodly Nature is not to be questioned by mere mortals, for He is a > jealous deity. > > I thank you for your assistance in helping me spread the Gospel of the > Flying Spaghetti > Monster. May the FSM be with you. Ramen! > > -E > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Tengai Mark Van Horn
Posts: 1922
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 8:31 pm

nklr metaphysics, the future, oil, and energy

Post by Tengai Mark Van Horn » Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:19 pm

At 11:13 PM +0000 12/10/07, E.L. Green wrote:
>..... Science is about things that can be directly observed and >tested, not about faith.
Global Warming is a religion, and Al Gore is their Messiah. However, some haven't taken the bait, including Weather Channel founder John Coleman who says that global warming is a hoax and a scam. Science and the scientific method are bullshit and have been for a looooooong time. Science today is *generally* all about pushing your agenda and proving your hypothesis to be correct by massaging the data to fit it, no matter how wrong it is. I've seen it first hand in my experiences (although the medical-related ones had more integrity) in space research, immunology, interventional radiology, bioengineering, and deep-sea ecology. Mark

Jud Jones
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Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:52 pm

nklr metaphysics, the future, oil, and energy

Post by Jud Jones » Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:52 am

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Russell Scott" wrote:
> > I don't know anything about the Heartland Institute. All I know is all > these genius scientists who can tells what happened fifty million years ago, > don't ever tell us a thing about the greatest climate event in recent > history, that happened 4000 years ago, the worldwide flood. And many of > them don't want to know, because then its makes their god likes egos > subjected to a higher authority, who already has the answers to all their > questions about how EVERYTHING works, because He created it all. > > R >
Bullsh*t.

jt5231@hotmail.com
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:05 pm

nklr metaphysics, the future, oil, and energy

Post by jt5231@hotmail.com » Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:03 am

I'm not sure how Coleman's stint as a former weatherman for Good Morning America and status as the originator of an (admittedly good) idea for a t.v. program qualifies him to deliver the definitive pronouncement on global warming. Especially when he explains his views this way: "I have read dozens of scientific papers. I have talked with numerous scientists. I have studied. I have thought about it. I know I am correct." Um, OK then, John. JT To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com From: tengai650@... Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:19:45 -0500 Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR metaphysics, the future, oil, and energy At 11:13 PM +0000 12/10/07, E.L. Green wrote:
>..... Science is about things that can be directly observed and >tested, not about faith.
Global Warming is a religion, and Al Gore is their Messiah. However, some haven't taken the bait, including Weather Channel founder John Coleman who says that global warming is a hoax and a scam. Science and the scientific method are bullshit and have been for a looooooong time. Science today is *generally* all about pushing your agenda and proving your hypothesis to be correct by massaging the data to fit it, no matter how wrong it is. I've seen it first hand in my experiences (although the medical-related ones had more integrity) in space research, immunology, interventional radiology, bioengineering, and deep-sea ecology. Mark _________________________________________________________________ Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_122007 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

E.L. Green
Posts: 639
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:36 am

nklr metaphysics, the future, oil, and energy

Post by E.L. Green » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:09 am

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Tengai Mark Van Horn wrote
> At 11:13 PM +0000 12/10/07, E.L. Green wrote: > >..... Science is about things that can be directly observed and > >tested, not about faith. > > Global Warming is a religion, and Al Gore is their Messiah.
Your faith in this is strong. Personally, I will rely on the scientists to do the science. Since I am not a climate scientist, I will rely on the climate scientists using the mechanisms of science (i.e. peer-reviewed papers replicated over time to validate experimental data) to tell me this, not random ignorant people off the streets or even random former weathermen who are not climate scientists and have never done any climate science.
> Science and the scientific method are bullshit
We have over 500 years of experience saying that this is a lie. You are using one of the product of those 500 years of experience right now. If you want to go back to living in filth picking lice out of your beard, smelling like ripe garbage, losing your teeth by age 30, and with 90% infant mortality giving an average lifespan of 30 years meaning that your family graveyard is full of tiny headstones saying "Baby Van Horn B April 5 2005 D April 6 2005", fine and dandy. That's a personal choice you make. But personally, I prefer having all these products of science available to me. If science is "bullshit" as you put it, it's "bullshit" that has worked pretty darned well for you and me, my friend, which is all I care about (this is the philosophy known as "Utilitarianism", BTW, if you want to go study Philosophy 101 in college). If you can find me an alternative to science that works better, tell me about it. Until then, I'm going to continue relying on science and the scientific method to produce the advances in our knowledge that make our life safer and better, because we have 500+ years of experience showing us that it's pretty darned good at doing that. Just one stroll through my family's old family graveyard looking at the dozens and dozens of tiny little headstones surrounding every large headstone in the old section of the graveyard is enough to tell me that much. -E

Peter Six
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:57 pm

nklr metaphysics, the future, oil, and energy

Post by Peter Six » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:37 am

Good idea, if science and the scientific method are bullshit and worthless than I d sure like to hear some suggestions what we can replace it with. Personally, I don t think my KLR will run any better if we switch back to astrology and alchemy. If I don t get any suggestions, I too will continue to rely on science and the scientific method. I just sleep better when experts offer solid evidence rather than smoke and mirrors. Peter
On 12/11/07 10:09 AM, "E.L. Green" wrote: > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com , > Tengai Mark Van Horn wrote >> > At 11:13 PM +0000 12/10/07, E.L. Green wrote: >>> > >..... Science is about things that can be directly observed and >>> > >tested, not about faith. >> > >> > Global Warming is a religion, and Al Gore is their Messiah. > > Your faith in this is strong. Personally, I will rely on the scientists to do > the science. Since I > am not a climate scientist, I will rely on the climate scientists using the > mechanisms of > science (i.e. peer-reviewed papers replicated over time to validate > experimental data) to > tell me this, not random ignorant people off the streets or even random former > weathermen who are not climate scientists and have never done any climate > science. > >> > Science and the scientific method are bullshit > > We have over 500 years of experience saying that this is a lie. You are using > one of the > product of those 500 years of experience right now. If you want to go back to > living in filth > picking lice out of your beard, smelling like ripe garbage, losing your teeth > by age 30, and > with 90% infant mortality giving an average lifespan of 30 years meaning that > your family > graveyard is full of tiny headstones saying "Baby Van Horn B April 5 2005 D > April 6 2005", > fine and dandy. That's a personal choice you make. But personally, I prefer > having all > these products of science available to me. If science is "bullshit" as you put > it, it's "bullshit" > that has worked pretty darned well for you and me, my friend, which is all I > care about > (this is the philosophy known as "Utilitarianism", BTW, if you want to go > study Philosophy > 101 in college). > > If you can find me an alternative to science that works better, tell me about > it. Until then, > I'm going to continue relying on science and the scientific method to produce > the > advances in our knowledge that make our life safer and better, because we have > 500+ > years of experience showing us that it's pretty darned good at doing that. > Just one stroll > through my family's old family graveyard looking at the dozens and dozens of > tiny little > headstones surrounding every large headstone in the old section of the > graveyard is > enough to tell me that much. > > -E > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Russell Scott
Posts: 1083
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 6:16 pm

nklr metaphysics, the future, oil, and energy

Post by Russell Scott » Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:39 pm

George or Jud, that's a tough call. One guy rides a motorcycle around, the other defeats the British Empire with a ragtag army, with death staring him in the face everyday, and starts the greatest country on Earth. Hmmm. I might need a college degree to get this one right. By 1778, George Washington had so often witnessed God's intervention that on August 20, he wrote Thomas Nelson that: The Hand of providence has been so conspicuous in all this, that he must be worse than an infidel that lacks faith, and more than wicked, that has not gratitude enough to acknowledge his obligations. R -----Original Message----- From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jud Jones Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 4:53 AM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR metaphysics, the future, oil, and energy
--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Russell Scott" wrote: > > I don't know anything about the Heartland Institute. All I know is all > these genius scientists who can tells what happened fifty million years ago, > don't ever tell us a thing about the greatest climate event in recent > history, that happened 4000 years ago, the worldwide flood. And many of > them don't want to know, because then its makes their god likes egos > subjected to a higher authority, who already has the answers to all their > questions about how EVERYTHING works, because He created it all. > > R > Bullsh*t. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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