footpeg bracket strengthening: a different approach

[JAMES BUCK]

Rotella T 15W-40 Michael Nelson wrote: What oil are you using in the engine? -- "It's not what I don't understand about religion that bothers me, it's what I do understand." -- Mark Twain San Francisco, CA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Michael Nelson]

If the strands of the inner cable were breaking over time, the inner cable would get longer, and you would GAIN freeplay. If you gain freeplay, that doesn't make it slip, that makes it fail to disengage and shifting gets difficult. How many total miles are showing on the odometer? Michael -- "It's not what I don't understand about religion that bothers me, it's what I do understand." -- Mark Twain San Francisco, CA

[Brent Tegler]

My problem was an old cable that was rusted and catching in the cable housing... a new clutch cable solved the problem for me... something to check anyway.... Brent. Yours truly, Dr. Brent Tegler Applied Ecologist & Partner North-South Environmental Inc. P.O. Box 518, 35 Crawford Crescent, Suite 5, Campbellville, ON, Canada L0P 1B0 Voice: 905-854-1112 Fax: 905-854-0001 Email: btegler@... ________________________________ From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JAMES BUCK Sent: November 13, 2007 2:03 PM To: Ed Dobson; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: clutch slippage Thanks for the reply, Ed! I've adjusted the cable on both ends as per Clymer, but I'm just not seeing any improvement over time. That is to say, I get good results for about 50 miles or so, and then the clutch starts slipping again and gets progressively worse. I guess what I'm looking for is someone who's had similar issues and how they cured the problem. I'm assuming that the clutch and cable are original to the bike. I am the 3rd owner. The 2nd owner didn't mention changing the clutch/cable. In fact, I don't think he changed anything but the gas. I don't know who the original owner was. I need some opinions, here. I feel like I've adjusted the cable to its limit without any benefit. Should I replace the cable and see if that helps, and then reevaluate after that? Thanks! James in Dallas Ed Dobson > wrote: --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com , "prodxn" wrote:

> > Hey, all - > > I've had a 2001 for a year, and I've put about 4K smiles on since I > got it. The cluth started slipping about 2 weeks ago, and I've been > adjusting it on the right side case since then. > > Every time I adjust the cable down there, I get the same behavior > afterward: > - Clutch works well and engine pulls strong as it's supposed to. > - The clutch disengages(?) at the end of the lever's travel. I don't > care for this, but I understand that's "normal" for the KLR's clutch. > - After riding for 50 miles or so, I can start to feel the clutch > beginning to slip ever-so-slightly, once again. > - Slippage is really bad when bike is first started (cold), but it > gets a little better as the engine gets up to operating temp. > > Now, I am out of adjustment space - I am completely at the front end > of the adjustment threads, and I have to nurse it along as the > slipping is so pronounced. The slipping occurs in all gears. When > I'm in 3rd, 4th and 5th, it will slip if I barely even blip the > throttle. If I continue to increase RPMs while staying out of the > red, the clutch will eventually disengage and the engine will pull > strongly, as it should. > > I need your collective wisdom, group. Is it time for a new clutch > assembly? New clutch cable? Help me! I'm at the end of my rope > (err...cable)! > > BTW, it's been about 1300 miles since my last oil change, in case > that matters(Rotella T dino 15W-40). > > TIA, > James in Dallas >

James, How many miles on the cable and clutch? Make sure your cable and everything in it's path is installed properly and functioning as it should. You can adjust the cable at both ends. Follow owner's or repair manual instructions. If the cable is suspect, replace it. It could be stretched; or corroded, snapping strands and stretching at each adjustment until it breaks completely. If it ain't the cable, it must be something in the clutch. ED [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[JAMES BUCK]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It's like the cable was shrinking, if that were possible, as in the opposite of stretching. That's what makes it so perplexing. I adjust it, and it seems OK in the very short term. It's worse when the engine is not at operating temp., but it gets "better" as it approaches and reaches operating temp. Mileage is around 10,250-10,300..... My research has shown owners replacing their clutches as late as 45K-50K miles, if at all (another reason for my confusion). Michael Nelson wrote: If the strands of the inner cable were breaking over time, the inner cable would get longer, and you would GAIN freeplay. If you gain freeplay, that doesn't make it slip, that makes it fail to disengage and shifting gets difficult. How many total miles are showing on the odometer? Michael -- "It's not what I don't understand about religion that bothers me, it's what I do understand." -- Mark Twain San Francisco, CA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[JAMES BUCK]

OK. Thanks, Brent. Does the behavior prior to the new cable sound similar to what I'm experiencing? Brent Tegler wrote: My problem was an old cable that was rusted and catching in the cable housing... a new clutch cable solved the problem for me... something to check anyway.... Brent. Yours truly, Dr. Brent Tegler Applied Ecologist & Partner North-South Environmental Inc. P.O. Box 518, 35 Crawford Crescent, Suite 5, Campbellville, ON, Canada L0P 1B0 Voice: 905-854-1112 Fax: 905-854-0001 Email: btegler@... ________________________________ From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JAMES BUCK Sent: November 13, 2007 2:03 PM To: Ed Dobson; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: clutch slippage Thanks for the reply, Ed! I've adjusted the cable on both ends as per Clymer, but I'm just not seeing any improvement over time. That is to say, I get good results for about 50 miles or so, and then the clutch starts slipping again and gets progressively worse. I guess what I'm looking for is someone who's had similar issues and how they cured the problem. I'm assuming that the clutch and cable are original to the bike. I am the 3rd owner. The 2nd owner didn't mention changing the clutch/cable. In fact, I don't think he changed anything but the gas. I don't know who the original owner was. I need some opinions, here. I feel like I've adjusted the cable to its limit without any benefit. Should I replace the cable and see if that helps, and then reevaluate after that? Thanks! James in Dallas Ed Dobson > wrote: --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com , "prodxn" wrote:

> > Hey, all - > > I've had a 2001 for a year, and I've put about 4K smiles on since I > got it. The cluth started slipping about 2 weeks ago, and I've been > adjusting it on the right side case since then. > > Every time I adjust the cable down there, I get the same behavior > afterward: > - Clutch works well and engine pulls strong as it's supposed to. > - The clutch disengages(?) at the end of the lever's travel. I don't > care for this, but I understand that's "normal" for the KLR's clutch. > - After riding for 50 miles or so, I can start to feel the clutch > beginning to slip ever-so-slightly, once again. > - Slippage is really bad when bike is first started (cold), but it > gets a little better as the engine gets up to operating temp. > > Now, I am out of adjustment space - I am completely at the front end > of the adjustment threads, and I have to nurse it along as the > slipping is so pronounced. The slipping occurs in all gears. When > I'm in 3rd, 4th and 5th, it will slip if I barely even blip the > throttle. If I continue to increase RPMs while staying out of the > red, the clutch will eventually disengage and the engine will pull > strongly, as it should. > > I need your collective wisdom, group. Is it time for a new clutch > assembly? New clutch cable? Help me! I'm at the end of my rope > (err...cable)! > > BTW, it's been about 1300 miles since my last oil change, in case > that matters(Rotella T dino 15W-40). > > TIA, > James in Dallas >

James, How many miles on the cable and clutch? Make sure your cable and everything in it's path is installed properly and functioning as it should. You can adjust the cable at both ends. Follow owner's or repair manual instructions. If the cable is suspect, replace it. It could be stretched; or corroded, snapping strands and stretching at each adjustment until it breaks completely. If it ain't the cable, it must be something in the clutch. ED [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jeff Saline]

> ----- Original Message ----- > From: prodxn > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:07 AM > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] clutch slippage > > Hey, all - > > I've had a 2001 for a year, and I've put about 4K smiles on since I > > got it. The cluth started slipping about 2 weeks ago, and I've been > > adjusting it on the right side case since then. > > Every time I adjust the cable down there, I get the same behavior > afterward: > - Clutch works well and engine pulls strong as it's supposed to. > - The clutch disengages(?) at the end of the lever's travel. I don't > > care for this, but I understand that's "normal" for the KLR's > clutch. > - After riding for 50 miles or so, I can start to feel the clutch > beginning to slip ever-so-slightly, once again. > - Slippage is really bad when bike is first started (cold), but it > gets a little better as the engine gets up to operating temp. > > Now, I am out of adjustment space - I am completely at the front end > > of the adjustment threads, and I have to nurse it along as the > slipping is so pronounced. The slipping occurs in all gears. When > I'm in 3rd, 4th and 5th, it will slip if I barely even blip the > throttle. If I continue to increase RPMs while staying out of the > red, the clutch will eventually disengage and the engine will pull > strongly, as it should. > > I need your collective wisdom, group. Is it time for a new clutch > assembly? New clutch cable? Help me! I'm at the end of my rope > (err...cable)! > > BTW, it's been about 1300 miles since my last oil change, in case > that matters(Rotella T dino 15W-40). > > TIA, > James in Dallas

<><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><> James, I'm not clear on a couple of things... - Is the clutch slipping (disengaged) and you still have free travel (sloppy movement) at the lever? - Is the clutch slipping (disengaged) and the lever has no free travel (sloppy movement)? - Do you really mean engage (grabs) when you say disengage as at the end of this quote from your e-mail? " Now, I am out of adjustment space - I am completely at the front end of the adjustment threads, and I have to nurse it along as the slipping is so pronounced. The slipping occurs in all gears. When I'm in 3rd, 4th and 5th, it will slip if I barely even blip the throttle. If I continue to increase RPMs while staying out of the red, the clutch will eventually disengage and the engine will pull strongly, as it should." - What adjustment threads? At the clutch lever? At the engine case? What is front? If you have free travel at the lever and the clutch is slipping it's inside the engine or you have a cable hanging up. Verify the lever at the engine case is really moving all the way to the rear (engaged) when the clutch is slipping. If all free travel is being consumed you have a goofy problem going on. I'd bet it's in the engine. But clutches like in the KLR650 aren't too complicated and can probably be fixed with 2-3 hours of labor and some new parts. I'll tell you your Rotella T 15w/40 oil is NOT the problem. I've currently got I think 6 oil analysis reports on that oil in my KLR650 and a few from others too. It is showing very promising results in this oil compartment. As I think about this just a tad more... Have you disconnected the clutch cable at the engine and checked it for smooth operation? Have you really inspected it to make sure there are absolutely no frayed ends or broken strands? Does the end at the lever rotate easily and smoothly when you pull the clutch lever in? Maybe a bit more clarification is needed so we can help you solve your slipping clutch. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT

[Michael Nelson]

On Tue, Nov 13, 2007 at 11:27:19AM -0800, JAMES BUCK wrote:

> Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It's like the cable was shrinking, if that were possible, as in the opposite of stretching. That's what makes it so perplexing. I adjust it, and it seems OK in the very short term. It's worse when the engine is not at operating temp., but it gets "better" as it approaches and reaches operating temp. > > Mileage is around 10,250-10,300..... My research has shown owners replacing their clutches as late as 45K-50K miles, if at all (another reason for my confusion).

I would put in a new cable. It probably needs it anyway at that mileage, and if that solves it you're done. If it doesn't, then pull the right side engine cover off and investigate. Michael -- "It's not what I don't understand about religion that bothers me, it's what I do understand." -- Mark Twain San Francisco, CA

[a14@att.net]

When was the last time you lubed the cable? Even a new cable will hang if it is dry. First try lubing the cable. Now let's check it out starting at the clutch lever. It needs to have some free play to take the presure off the cable or the clutch may slip. You can only have too much free play when you pull the lever to the handgrip and the clutch does not fully disengage. Do you have freeplay at the clutch lever? If so check the lever at the right side case for freeplay. Do you have it there? If not your cable is hanging up and needs to be replaced. You alredy took care of the other reason it may hang up when you lubed it. If it has free play at the case lever and still slips the clutch plates are worn and need to be replaced. You can't always go by mileage. It depends on how the clutch was used or abused. Also forget about the oil factor. The KLR has a robust clutch such that any automotive oil will not cause it to slip if it is in good condition. Walt

[Ronald Criswell]

What if you never lube your cables? 46,000 miles on each of my bikes. Might try Jennifer fish oil. Criswell

On Nov 13, 2007, at 1:48 PM, a14@... wrote: > When was the last time you lubed the cable? Even a new cable will > hang if it is dry. First try lubing the cable. > > Now let's check it out starting at the clutch lever. It needs to > have some free play to take the presure off the cable or the clutch > may slip. You can only have too much free play when you pull the > lever to the handgrip and the clutch does not fully disengage. Do you > have freeplay at the clutch lever? If so check the lever at the > right side case for freeplay. Do you have it there? If not your > cable is hanging up and needs to be replaced. You alredy took care > of the other reason it may hang up when you lubed it. If it has > free play at the case lever and still slips the clutch plates are worn > and need to be replaced. You can't always go by mileage. It depends > on how the clutch was used or abused. Also forget about the oil > factor. > The KLR has a robust clutch such that any automotive oil will not > cause > it to slip if it is in good condition. > > Walt > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[JAMES BUCK]

Hey, Jeff. Thanks for your thoughts! Lemme se if I can explain this a little more precisely. My explanation up to this point has been as rudimentary as my knowledge on the subject. Anyway, the problem I'm actually having is with the clutch (in the case) not wanting to fully disengage when the hand lever is let out, regardless of the adjustment at the hand lever itself. In other words, the clutch (in the case) doesn't want to fully disengage, immediately, whether there is sloppy play after releasing the lever or no play at all after release. The clutch does, however, eventually completely disengage, but it will engage if I try to accelerate. That's what I mean when I say that the clutch is slipping. It's trying to engage when I'm trying to accelerate. When I say "engage the clutch" I am referring to the act of pulling the clutch hand lever in so that the bike idles while in gear. I am using the term "disengage" to mean the opposite: that the clutch has been released, allowing the transmission to "do its thing" and propel the bike. Sorry to use such technical terminology, here. Feel free to set me straight if I'm using "dis/engage" improperly when referring to the clutch and transmission. The adjustment threads I'm referring to are the threads on the collared piece at the adjustment point on the right case. When I say that I've run it completely to the front, I mean that I've run the collar and both nuts to the end closer to the front wheel and that the majority of the visible threads are on the other side of the collar (the side closer to the rear wheel). I'm not sure if the lever at the case is moving back as far as it should when the hand lever is released. I'm not sure how I would get the answer to that. I guess I'll just have to go into the case? No, I have not thoroughly inspected the cable itself. I suppose that should be my next step before entering the case? The previous owners kept the bike out in the weather, so there could be some rusting/corrosion going on inside the cable sleeve. The lever on the case seems to operate smoothly, and the cable itself feels smooth when I pull the hand lever. I suppose, though, that the cable could be "stopping short" or hanging up. I didn't figure that oil was my problem. It just seems like something in the mechanics of the clutch/cable. I appreciate your time, Jeff. Any more suggestions and/or thoughts are welcomed and greatly appreciated. Let me know if I need to further clarify any of the issue..... Thanks! James in Dallas Jeff Saline wrote: James, I'm not clear on a couple of things... - Is the clutch slipping (disengaged) and you still have free travel (sloppy movement) at the lever? - Is the clutch slipping (disengaged) and the lever has no free travel (sloppy movement)? - Do you really mean engage (grabs) when you say disengage as at the end of this quote from your e-mail? " Now, I am out of adjustment space - I am completely at the front end of the adjustment threads, and I have to nurse it along as the slipping is so pronounced. The slipping occurs in all gears. When I'm in 3rd, 4th and 5th, it will slip if I barely even blip the throttle. If I continue to increase RPMs while staying out of the red, the clutch will eventually disengage and the engine will pull strongly, as it should." - What adjustment threads? At the clutch lever? At the engine case? What is front? If you have free travel at the lever and the clutch is slipping it's inside the engine or you have a cable hanging up. Verify the lever at the engine case is really moving all the way to the rear (engaged) when the clutch is slipping. If all free travel is being consumed you have a goofy problem going on. I'd bet it's in the engine. But clutches like in the KLR650 aren't too complicated and can probably be fixed with 2-3 hours of labor and some new parts. I'll tell you your Rotella T 15w/40 oil is NOT the problem. I've currently got I think 6 oil analysis reports on that oil in my KLR650 and a few from others too. It is showing very promising results in this oil compartment. As I think about this just a tad more... Have you disconnected the clutch cable at the engine and checked it for smooth operation? Have you really inspected it to make sure there are absolutely no frayed ends or broken strands? Does the end at the lever rotate easily and smoothly when you pull the clutch lever in? Maybe a bit more clarification is needed so we can help you solve your slipping clutch. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]