nklr new product info

[vetter_tim]

I posted last week about the problem I had upgrading to a 320mm front rotor. Apparently Blake ran into the same snag with his install, which was stripping out the threads in the aluminum caliper relocation bracket that came with the new rotor. I had originally blamed cross-threading but I think he nailed the actual problem, which is that we had both tried to torque the mounting bolts to stock spec (18 ft-lbs if I recall correctly). The soft aluminum wants substantially lower torque, which seems obvious now, but in the rush to farkle, one doesn't think ... I ordered an M8 thread insert kit off eBay ("PermaCoil" - $15 shipped for a dozen inserts, tap, and insertion tool) and it took about 10 minutes last night to drill out the receiving hole, tap it, screw in the insert, and grind it flush (that portion of the bracket is a lot narrower than an insert is long). I doused the insert with blue threadlock and put it all together with the original M8 bolts. Seems rock solid now, I'd venture moreso than the hole I DIDN'T mangle. The 320mm rotor with Galfer Green pads (had EBC pads before) has completely transformed the braking experience of the bike, though I haven't tried anything like a radical stop as the pads are bedding in. I think I'll consider this an essential first safety upgrade for future KLRs in my life. The rotor upgrade kit (from klr650.com) also came with a stainless steel brake line, which I installed before the mangled thread stopped the rest of the operation. So I got to experience that particular upgrade in isolation for a few weeks. I have to say I didn't notice a significant improvement in braking performance from the ss line alone. I guess as a result I would recommend that as more of a preventive maintenance farkle for old bikes like mine (88) whose stock rubber lines are probably on their way to being pretty degraded, rather than as something you ought to rush off to do at first opportunity. YMMV. Tim Los Gatos, CA

[Mike Peplinski]

I installed the same kit on my 01. I agree, the stopping is noticable improved. You forgot to address the pure farkle value. The disc with the gold anodized center is flat gorgeous. I love the look of it. I have one question-how did you string the brake lilne? It seems a bit longer and wants to hang toward the outside of the fork. I can't seem to take up thte slack or tuck it in.

>From: "vetter_tim" >To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [DSN_KLR650] front brake upgrade: post-mortem >Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 20:16:15 -0000 > >I posted last week about the problem I had upgrading to a 320mm front >rotor. > >Apparently Blake ran into the same snag with his install, which was >stripping out the threads in the aluminum caliper relocation bracket >that came with the new rotor. I had originally blamed cross-threading >but I think he nailed the actual problem, which is that we had both >tried to torque the mounting bolts to stock spec (18 ft-lbs if I >recall correctly). The soft aluminum wants substantially lower >torque, which seems obvious now, but in the rush to farkle, one >doesn't think ... > >I ordered an M8 thread insert kit off eBay ("PermaCoil" - $15 shipped >for a dozen inserts, tap, and insertion tool) and it took about 10 >minutes last night to drill out the receiving hole, tap it, screw in >the insert, and grind it flush (that portion of the bracket is a lot >narrower than an insert is long). I doused the insert with blue >threadlock and put it all together with the original M8 bolts. Seems >rock solid now, I'd venture moreso than the hole I DIDN'T mangle. > >The 320mm rotor with Galfer Green pads (had EBC pads before) has >completely transformed the braking experience of the bike, though I >haven't tried anything like a radical stop as the pads are bedding >in. I think I'll consider this an essential first safety upgrade for >future KLRs in my life. > >The rotor upgrade kit (from klr650.com) also came with a stainless >steel brake line, which I installed before the mangled thread stopped >the rest of the operation. So I got to experience that particular >upgrade in isolation for a few weeks. I have to say I didn't notice a >significant improvement in braking performance from the ss line >alone. I guess as a result I would recommend that as more of a >preventive maintenance farkle for old bikes like mine (88) whose >stock rubber lines are probably on their way to being pretty >degraded, rather than as something you ought to rush off to do at >first opportunity. YMMV. > >Tim >Los Gatos, CA > > > >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 >Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

_________________________________________________________________ Valentine s Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095&tcode=wlmtagline

[Mike]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "vetter_tim" wrote:

> > I posted last week about the problem I had upgrading to a 320mm front > rotor. > > Apparently Blake ran into the same snag with his install, which was > stripping out the threads in the aluminum caliper relocation bracket > that came with the new rotor. I had originally blamed cross-threading > but I think he nailed the actual problem, which is that we had both > tried to torque the mounting bolts to stock spec (18 ft-lbs if I > recall correctly). The soft aluminum wants substantially lower > torque, which seems obvious now, but in the rush to farkle, one > doesn't think ... > > I ordered an M8 thread insert kit off eBay ("PermaCoil" - $15 shipped > for a dozen inserts, tap, and insertion tool) and it took about 10 > minutes last night to drill out the receiving hole, tap it, screw in > the insert, and grind it flush (that portion of the bracket is a lot > narrower than an insert is long). I doused the insert with blue > threadlock and put it all together with the original M8 bolts. Seems > rock solid now, I'd venture moreso than the hole I DIDN'T mangle. >

snipped here>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> Tim > Los Gatos, CA

Tim, One of the things people do sometimes is get lazy with the alloy. If they'd made it from 7075-T651, you'd probably be fine. I'm often skeptical when people say things like "aerospace T6 alloy." It doesn't mean much until you know which alloy it is! 6061 is the most popular, easily welded, finishes nice, cheap to buy. About 60 percent as strong as 7075 in the same condition, tho........ all the best, Mike

[kestrelfal]

Did the EBC rotor kit installation instructions specify torque values [and thread lubricant (no) or locking compound (yes) requirements] for the bracket and caliper mounting screws? EBC's instructions should be foolproof, especially for a safety item such as the mounting of a brake caliper. If EBC did not specify torque values, they are negligent. Fred

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "vetter_tim" wrote: > > I posted last week about the problem I had upgrading to a 320mm front > rotor. > > Apparently Blake ran into the same snag with his install, which was > stripping out the threads in the aluminum caliper relocation bracket > that came with the new rotor. I had originally blamed cross-threading > but I think he nailed the actual problem, which is that we had both > tried to torque the mounting bolts to stock spec (18 ft-lbs if I > recall correctly). The soft aluminum wants substantially lower > torque, which seems obvious now, but in the rush to farkle, one > doesn't think ... > > I ordered an M8 thread insert kit off eBay ("PermaCoil" - $15 shipped > for a dozen inserts, tap, and insertion tool) and it took about 10 > minutes last night to drill out the receiving hole, tap it, screw in > the insert, and grind it flush (that portion of the bracket is a lot > narrower than an insert is long). I doused the insert with blue > threadlock and put it all together with the original M8 bolts. Seems > rock solid now, I'd venture moreso than the hole I DIDN'T mangle. > > The 320mm rotor with Galfer Green pads (had EBC pads before) has > completely transformed the braking experience of the bike, though I > haven't tried anything like a radical stop as the pads are bedding > in. I think I'll consider this an essential first safety upgrade for > future KLRs in my life. > > The rotor upgrade kit (from klr650.com) also came with a stainless > steel brake line, which I installed before the mangled thread stopped > the rest of the operation. So I got to experience that particular > upgrade in isolation for a few weeks. I have to say I didn't notice a > significant improvement in braking performance from the ss line > alone. I guess as a result I would recommend that as more of a > preventive maintenance farkle for old bikes like mine (88) whose > stock rubber lines are probably on their way to being pretty > degraded, rather than as something you ought to rush off to do at > first opportunity. YMMV. > > Tim > Los Gatos, CA >

[vetter_tim]

I keep saying EBC rotor, but the packaging was Studebaker. However I think those guys also produce the EBC-branded one - Pablo in SF got one of those around the same time as me, I think from cyclebrakes.com, and it was basically identical. The instructions specified use of threadlock, but for torque values deferred to "manufacturer's specifications" or somesuch. I threw out the paper otherwise I would quote it. Tim Los Gatos, CA --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "kestrelfal" wrote:

> > Did the EBC rotor kit installation instructions specify > torque values [and thread lubricant (no) or locking compound > (yes) requirements] for the bracket and caliper mounting screws? > EBC's instructions should be foolproof, especially for a > safety item such as the mounting of a brake caliper. If > EBC did not specify torque values, they are negligent. > > Fred > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "vetter_tim" wrote: > > > > I posted last week about the problem I had upgrading to a 320mm

front

> > rotor. > > > > Apparently Blake ran into the same snag with his install, which

was

> > stripping out the threads in the aluminum caliper relocation

bracket

> > that came with the new rotor. I had originally blamed cross-

threading

> > but I think he nailed the actual problem, which is that we had

both

> > tried to torque the mounting bolts to stock spec (18 ft-lbs if I > > recall correctly). The soft aluminum wants substantially lower > > torque, which seems obvious now, but in the rush to farkle, one > > doesn't think ... > > > > I ordered an M8 thread insert kit off eBay ("PermaCoil" - $15

shipped

> > for a dozen inserts, tap, and insertion tool) and it took about

10

> > minutes last night to drill out the receiving hole, tap it, screw

in

> > the insert, and grind it flush (that portion of the bracket is a

lot

> > narrower than an insert is long). I doused the insert with blue > > threadlock and put it all together with the original M8 bolts.

Seems

> > rock solid now, I'd venture moreso than the hole I DIDN'T mangle. > > > > The 320mm rotor with Galfer Green pads (had EBC pads before) has > > completely transformed the braking experience of the bike, though

I

> > haven't tried anything like a radical stop as the pads are

bedding

> > in. I think I'll consider this an essential first safety upgrade

for

> > future KLRs in my life. > > > > The rotor upgrade kit (from klr650.com) also came with a

stainless

> > steel brake line, which I installed before the mangled thread

stopped

> > the rest of the operation. So I got to experience that particular > > upgrade in isolation for a few weeks. I have to say I didn't

notice a

> > significant improvement in braking performance from the ss line > > alone. I guess as a result I would recommend that as more of a > > preventive maintenance farkle for old bikes like mine (88) whose > > stock rubber lines are probably on their way to being pretty > > degraded, rather than as something you ought to rush off to do at > > first opportunity. YMMV. > > > > Tim > > Los Gatos, CA > > >

[Fred Hink]

The information that EBC provides with this kit is to tell you that if you not a "Fully Qualified Mechanic" that you should not undertake this job and to have your Dealer install this rotor kit. They also say if you don't have the Correct Torque Figures that you should Ask Your Dealer. "Overtightening and fracture of bolts or stripping of threads must be avoided at all costs." It always pays to read the instructions. Fred

----- Original Message ----- From: kestrelfal To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:13 PM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: front brake upgrade: post-mortem Did the EBC rotor kit installation instructions specify torque values [and thread lubricant (no) or locking compound (yes) requirements] for the bracket and caliper mounting screws? EBC's instructions should be foolproof, especially for a safety item such as the mounting of a brake caliper. If EBC did not specify torque values, they are negligent. Fred --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "vetter_tim" wrote: > > I posted last week about the problem I had upgrading to a 320mm front > rotor. > > Apparently Blake ran into the same snag with his install, which was > stripping out the threads in the aluminum caliper relocation bracket > that came with the new rotor. I had originally blamed cross-threading > but I think he nailed the actual problem, which is that we had both > tried to torque the mounting bolts to stock spec (18 ft-lbs if I > recall correctly). The soft aluminum wants substantially lower > torque, which seems obvious now, but in the rush to farkle, one > doesn't think ... > > I ordered an M8 thread insert kit off eBay ("PermaCoil" - $15 shipped > for a dozen inserts, tap, and insertion tool) and it took about 10 > minutes last night to drill out the receiving hole, tap it, screw in > the insert, and grind it flush (that portion of the bracket is a lot > narrower than an insert is long). I doused the insert with blue > threadlock and put it all together with the original M8 bolts. Seems > rock solid now, I'd venture moreso than the hole I DIDN'T mangle. > > The 320mm rotor with Galfer Green pads (had EBC pads before) has > completely transformed the braking experience of the bike, though I > haven't tried anything like a radical stop as the pads are bedding > in. I think I'll consider this an essential first safety upgrade for > future KLRs in my life. > > The rotor upgrade kit (from klr650.com) also came with a stainless > steel brake line, which I installed before the mangled thread stopped > the rest of the operation. So I got to experience that particular > upgrade in isolation for a few weeks. I have to say I didn't notice a > significant improvement in braking performance from the ss line > alone. I guess as a result I would recommend that as more of a > preventive maintenance farkle for old bikes like mine (88) whose > stock rubber lines are probably on their way to being pretty > degraded, rather than as something you ought to rush off to do at > first opportunity. YMMV. > > Tim > Los Gatos, CA > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Mike Peplinski]

I just installed the 320mm rotor from KLR650.com. I'm told it is an EBC but it came in a no-name wrapper. The only instructions I found instructed me to install new pads or the warranty would be void.

>From: "vetter_tim" >To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: front brake upgrade: post-mortem >Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:35:52 -0000 > >I keep saying EBC rotor, but the packaging was Studebaker. However I >think those guys also produce the EBC-branded one - Pablo in SF got >one of those around the same time as me, I think from >cyclebrakes.com, and it was basically identical. > >The instructions specified use of threadlock, but for torque values >deferred to "manufacturer's specifications" or somesuch. I threw out >the paper otherwise I would quote it. > >Tim >Los Gatos, CA > >--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "kestrelfal" >wrote: > > > > Did the EBC rotor kit installation instructions specify > > torque values [and thread lubricant (no) or locking compound > > (yes) requirements] for the bracket and caliper mounting screws? > > EBC's instructions should be foolproof, especially for a > > safety item such as the mounting of a brake caliper. If > > EBC did not specify torque values, they are negligent. > > > > Fred > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "vetter_tim" wrote: > > > > > > I posted last week about the problem I had upgrading to a 320mm >front > > > rotor. > > > > > > Apparently Blake ran into the same snag with his install, which >was > > > stripping out the threads in the aluminum caliper relocation >bracket > > > that came with the new rotor. I had originally blamed cross- >threading > > > but I think he nailed the actual problem, which is that we had >both > > > tried to torque the mounting bolts to stock spec (18 ft-lbs if I > > > recall correctly). The soft aluminum wants substantially lower > > > torque, which seems obvious now, but in the rush to farkle, one > > > doesn't think ... > > > > > > I ordered an M8 thread insert kit off eBay ("PermaCoil" - $15 >shipped > > > for a dozen inserts, tap, and insertion tool) and it took about >10 > > > minutes last night to drill out the receiving hole, tap it, screw >in > > > the insert, and grind it flush (that portion of the bracket is a >lot > > > narrower than an insert is long). I doused the insert with blue > > > threadlock and put it all together with the original M8 bolts. >Seems > > > rock solid now, I'd venture moreso than the hole I DIDN'T mangle. > > > > > > The 320mm rotor with Galfer Green pads (had EBC pads before) has > > > completely transformed the braking experience of the bike, though >I > > > haven't tried anything like a radical stop as the pads are >bedding > > > in. I think I'll consider this an essential first safety upgrade >for > > > future KLRs in my life. > > > > > > The rotor upgrade kit (from klr650.com) also came with a >stainless > > > steel brake line, which I installed before the mangled thread >stopped > > > the rest of the operation. So I got to experience that particular > > > upgrade in isolation for a few weeks. I have to say I didn't >notice a > > > significant improvement in braking performance from the ss line > > > alone. I guess as a result I would recommend that as more of a > > > preventive maintenance farkle for old bikes like mine (88) whose > > > stock rubber lines are probably on their way to being pretty > > > degraded, rather than as something you ought to rush off to do at > > > first opportunity. YMMV. > > > > > > Tim > > > Los Gatos, CA > > > > > > > > > >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 >Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

_________________________________________________________________ Valentine s Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095&tcode=wlmtagline

[kestrelfal]

EBC's (or others) passing-the-buck on torque values raises serious doubt as to whether their bracket was engineered at all, and doesn't eliminate their negligence. If the kit was fully engineered, bolt strength and torque should have been covered. Fred No. x

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Hink" wrote: > > The information that EBC provides with this kit is to tell you that if you not a "Fully Qualified Mechanic" that you should not undertake this job and to have your Dealer install this rotor kit. They also say if you don't have the Correct Torque Figures that you should Ask Your Dealer. "Overtightening and fracture of bolts or stripping of threads must be avoided at all costs." > > It always pays to read the instructions. > > Fred > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: kestrelfal > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:13 PM > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: front brake upgrade: post-mortem > > > Did the EBC rotor kit installation instructions specify > torque values [and thread lubricant (no) or locking compound > (yes) requirements] for the bracket and caliper mounting screws? > EBC's instructions should be foolproof, especially for a > safety item such as the mounting of a brake caliper. If > EBC did not specify torque values, they are negligent. > > Fred > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "vetter_tim" wrote: > > > > I posted last week about the problem I had upgrading to a 320mm front > > rotor. > > > > Apparently Blake ran into the same snag with his install, which was > > stripping out the threads in the aluminum caliper relocation bracket > > that came with the new rotor. I had originally blamed cross-threading > > but I think he nailed the actual problem, which is that we had both > > tried to torque the mounting bolts to stock spec (18 ft-lbs if I > > recall correctly). The soft aluminum wants substantially lower > > torque, which seems obvious now, but in the rush to farkle, one > > doesn't think ... > > > > I ordered an M8 thread insert kit off eBay ("PermaCoil" - $15 shipped > > for a dozen inserts, tap, and insertion tool) and it took about 10 > > minutes last night to drill out the receiving hole, tap it, screw in > > the insert, and grind it flush (that portion of the bracket is a lot > > narrower than an insert is long). I doused the insert with blue > > threadlock and put it all together with the original M8 bolts. Seems > > rock solid now, I'd venture moreso than the hole I DIDN'T mangle. > > > > The 320mm rotor with Galfer Green pads (had EBC pads before) has > > completely transformed the braking experience of the bike, though I > > haven't tried anything like a radical stop as the pads are bedding > > in. I think I'll consider this an essential first safety upgrade for > > future KLRs in my life. > > > > The rotor upgrade kit (from klr650.com) also came with a stainless > > steel brake line, which I installed before the mangled thread stopped > > the rest of the operation. So I got to experience that particular > > upgrade in isolation for a few weeks. I have to say I didn't notice a > > significant improvement in braking performance from the ss line > > alone. I guess as a result I would recommend that as more of a > > preventive maintenance farkle for old bikes like mine (88) whose > > stock rubber lines are probably on their way to being pretty > > degraded, rather than as something you ought to rush off to do at > > first opportunity. YMMV. > > > > Tim > > Los Gatos, CA > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

[J. Christopher Krok]

> 5a. front brake upgrade: post-mortem > Posted by: "vetter_tim" timvetter@... vetter_tim > Date: Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:17 pm ((PST)) > > I posted last week about the problem I had upgrading to a 320mm front > rotor. > > Apparently Blake ran into the same snag with his install, which was > stripping out the threads in the aluminum caliper relocation bracket > that came with the new rotor. I had originally blamed cross-threading > but I think he nailed the actual problem, which is that we had both > tried to torque the mounting bolts to stock spec (18 ft-lbs if I > recall correctly). The soft aluminum wants substantially lower > torque, which seems obvious now, but in the rush to farkle, one > doesn't think ...

How thick is the bracket for the KLR? (i.e., how much thread depth?) I have an oversized kit for my KLX forks, and the bracket is fairly substantial. I haven't had a problem with thread pullout, but I torque it by feel (see below). I doubt that the 18 ft-lb spec is based on the limit strength of the steel threads, which could still give some overhead for threads in aluminum. However, as Mike mentioned, they may not have used the highest-zoot aluminum to begin with. If I get a chance this weekend, I might go ahead and try torquing mine to that spec. Typically, I just loctite the bolts and tighten by feel. So far, so good. Krokko -- J. Christopher Krok, Ph.D. Big Cee Engineering KLR650 Accessories and home of the FAQ

[Ed Chait]

----- Original Message ----- From: "kestrelfal" To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:31 AM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: front brake upgrade: post-mortem EBC's (or others) passing-the-buck on torque values raises serious doubt as to whether their bracket was engineered at all, and doesn't eliminate their negligence. If the kit was fully engineered, bolt strength and torque should have been covered. Fred No. x ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Exactly. Their instructions are completely useless if they don't include torque values and actually borders on negligence since the aluminum bracket obviously requires much lower torque values than than stock. ed A17